I am glad of this Opportunity of talking with you. It was what I wanted.

And why didst not take it before? I never shunn'd thee.

I am your Minister: It became you to come to me.

I promise thee, thou art none of my Mi­nister: I'll have none but of my own chusing. Be­sides, if thou mindest thy Pride more than my Salvation, and art too great to come, to thy Pa­rishioners, small is my Encouragement to come to thee: The Apostles stood not thus upon their Dignity.

The Apostles went to those who could not come to them

And to those that would not.

A modest Man would have doubted, and heard what I had to say.

Friend, hast thou thy self no Doubts about the Streightness of the Way thou art in?

Certainly no.

Then am not I more modest than thou art? I often doubt, and go to God with my Doubts.

But you should go to him in proper Way.

I go to him in Prayer, and in his Word: Knowest thou a Way more proper?

Do you understand his Word?

It is thy Fault, and the Fault of thy Bre­thren, if I do not. The Clergy have translated it.

But there are still many difficult Places in it which the Clergy understand best.

If the Clergy understand them, then are they not difficult to Laymen, who know all Lan­guages: And why do not the Clergy explain them?

That is their Business.

Then they ill understand their Business, since they vary and quarrel so much about it.

They only differ in Controverted Points.

No more don't thee and I.

But I mean Points controverted amongst us.

That is to say, ALL Points. Even where you say, you believe alike, you explain different­ly; which sheweth a manifest Difference also in believing. And art not thou unreasonable to ex­pect, nay to demand Union amongst the People, when the Clergy themselves are the Authors of Disunion?

Therefore we renounce such Clergymen.

And they renounce thee. And do not the Quakers act wisely to renounce you ALL, as you ALL do one another?

You speak harshly, and untruly; There are Numbers of us who adhere together in our Senti­ments.

And there are Numbers who adhere toge­ther against you, and yet call themselves of the same Church with you.

I am sorry for it.

So oughtest thou to be for charging me with speaking untruly, when thou thy self bearest Testimony to the Truth I speak.

But you go too far.

I do not, nay, I will go farther, and main­tain, that the Numbers thou boastest of in Union with thee, were every Man to explain his Belief his own Way, would all vary from thee, and from one another.

I do not think so: However, their varying in Belief is no Reason against believing.

But it is a good Reason why every Man should have his own Belief.

Then there will be no End of Confusions.

No more there is not in Opinions and Doctrines.

And is not that a deplorable Case?

So is the Fall of Adam: canst thou cure it?

They are not parallel Cases.

Depend upon it, thou may'st as easily bring back Adam into a State of Innocence, as all his Posterity into one Mind.

What! can't I reason a Man into my Opi­nion?

Yes, if he like thy Opinion, and thy Rea­soning: Perhaps he will think them both stark naught.

That may be his Fault.

And it may be thine. How are thy Opi­nions better than mine? I think them worse.

They are warranted by the Word of God.

I think mine are: I'll promise thee I try them by that Word, which I think I can interpret as well as thou can'st. I'll tell thee further, that I am satisfied the God of Mercy never damn'd any Man for mistaking it; for I take it, in reveal­ing his Word he mocketh not Men, by giving them a Riddle instead of a Revelation.

You know little of Scripture, if you do not know there are Places in it which you cannot un­derstand.

Nor can'st thou. As to those Places, tho' they may be his Will, yet I am sure they are not his reveal'd Will, because he hath not reveal'd it; and if I take thy Interpretation and Conjec­tures for his Word, then do I believe in thy Word, and not in his. Now, where hath he commanded me to believe in thee?

He has commanded you to believe me when I speak in his Name.

And so art thou to believe me when I speak in his Name?

But I am his Ambassador.

There I do not believe thee, because thou speakest in thy own Name.

Why, does not St. Paul say, We are Ambas­sadors in his Stead.

Yes; Art thou St. Paul?

No, I am only his Successor; he himself is dead.

So are his Gifts and Miracles: Can'st thou work Miracles? If not, how dost thou succeed him.

I preach the Gospel which he preach'd.

So do I, and bear my own Charges as he did his; and why should I pay thee for doing what I can do as well my self? I do not find that Paul has left thee any Wages, and I am sure he has left thee nothing else; his Epistles are left to every Man.

Yes, he has left Ministers to wait upon God's Ordinances in the House of God. I am one of those Ministers.

Friend, as thou art a Christian, thou must needs know that every House is alike to Almigh­ty God, who filleth Heaven and Earth, and dwel­leth not in Houses made with Hands: And as to what you call Ordinances, thou knowest that the Apostles administer'd none. Every Man did it for himself, and it was done from House to House. There were no bloody Sacrifices in the Religion of Jesus, and consequently no Priests, their only Office being to slay Beasts.

Dare you say that God has appointed no Bo­dy in his Church to preach and explain his Word?

No; I neither do, nor dare say it; and thou may'st spare thy big Words. He hath left every Man to preach it to another; nor hast thou any more Call from him than every one of thy Parish hath. If thou wouldst resemble the Apostles, go and preach to the unconverted without Money, and without Price. Thy whole Parish believe in Christ already, as much as thou do'st, and did before they knew thee. They have the Bible themselves; and if thou bringest them any Ti­dings that are not in it, and that they them­selves see not in it, they ought not to believe thee.

You argue very insincerely with me. Just now you contended that I had none of St. Paul's Gifts; and now you would have me go without those Gifts; and do what he did with them; namely, travel over the World, and convert the unconverted.

No, I only would shew thee, that as thou dost not resemble him, thou art vain in pretending to succeed him; and so far I reason consistently, as thou dost weakly, if thou claimest all his Re­verence, without any of his Merit.

I do not set up for the Abilities of St. Paul; but still have Qualifications superior to Laymen.

What are those Qualifications?

I know Languages; I have had an Uni­versity-Education; and—.

All these are civil Qualifications, common to all Men, who would be at the Pains and Charge. Laymen understand Latin and Greek as well as thou dost. The Gospel wanteth no Embelishment from those thou callest Virgil and Horace; and Christ crucified, is not sought nor found in Uni­versities, nor indeed the Flesh crucified. If I am not misinformed, they abound with young Men who are too often Sinners, and with old Men who are no Saints. They are Schools of Words; but the Gospel hath nothing to do with thy Lo­gick and vain Philosophy.

I was going to tell you too, that I had stu­died Divinity.

Knowest thou any Divinity, but what is in the Bible? and have not I the Bible? I think, and am sure, that it is a plain and intelligible Book, at least as much of it as is meet for a Chri­stian, and to turn it into Doubtfulness, and Dis­putation, and Science, and Gain, favoureth not of Christianity.

This is insolently said: Who turns it into Gain?

He who maketh a Gain of it; which is worse than Insolence, whereof, thou dost ground­lesly accuse me.

What! do you not declare against Preach­ers?

I have already told thee, I do not: I would have all Men Preachers.

Ay, Tinkers, Taylors, and Coblers.

Friend, beware of thy Words: What were the Apostles? They were no University Gentry.

But you say we want the Apostles Gifts.

I wish thou couldst confute me. How­ever, we have all of us the Apostles Books; and canst thou mend them?

No. But I can enforce them; and the La­bourer is worthy of his Hire, if you will believe St. Paul.

But if he laboureth for himself, why should I pay him? I profit not by thy Labour, why shouldst thou profit by my Substance? I believe Paul; but Paul hath given thee no Property in my Pigs and Barley.

But the Law has.

The Law is not Paul: But I perceive, whoever is the Giver, thou wilt be the Taker.

Sir, you are rude.

How? Because I do thee Justice.

Let me tell you, Sir, there is Reason in it, as well as Law.

Thy Interest may be Reason to thee: But thou wilt be put to it, to give me a Reason for giving thee something for nothing.

Don't you know, that, under the Law, the Priests had their Lot in the Land?

Yes: But they were Jewish Priests, or Sacrificers. Art thou a Jew? and dost thou kill Cattle, as they did? And wouldst thou reconcile Judaism to Christianity?

No; I would only shew, that it is reasona­ble that Priests should have a proper Appointment.

I have already shewn thee the Unreasona­bleness of having any Priests in Christianity.

In this you saucily differ from all the Soci­eties of Christians in the World.

I do not differ from Christianity; nor am I saucy in differing from those that do. The bles­sed Jesus hath left thee no Legacy, that I know of, nor so much as named thee in his Will.

The Man grows profane.

Thou meanest unanswerable. Is it any Article of thy Creed, that Truth is profane?

Your having no establish'd Ministers amongst you, is enough to render your Sect odious to all Sorts of Christians.

We have Religion establish'd amongst us. Is Religion odious in thy Eyes, where there is not a Livelihood to be got out of it? We establish no Clergy, lest they should disestablish the Peace and Purity of the Gospel; and whilst our Preach­ers have Grace, we reckon they will seek no Mo­ney. We therefore do not keep in Pay Men who sell Speech.

The Truth is, the Speeches utter'd amongst you are not worth buying.

Friend, no Speeches in the House of God ought to be bought, nor the Tabernacle be turn'd into a Shop. Why sellest thou thine, which, as Report saith, are not alluring? Freely you have receiv'd, freely give. Friend, what did the Gos­pel cost thee? Or why should we purchase it at thy dear Price, when we have it in our Houses in more Purity and Plainness than thou canst give it?

Yes, and you understand it by the Spirit!

Thou sayest it. We trust to the Spirit to direct us, who is promis'd to all that ask him. Thou trustest to John Hammond and Daniel Whit­by for Direction. Whether art thou or we best directed?

I shall not believe that the Spirit is the Author of the Enthusiasm and Dreams that are found amongst you.

The Carnal Man discerneth not the Things of God. Paul was call'd a Babbler by the Athe­nians, whose Priests, who were many, had no Il­lumination, [Page 11] but being Men of dark and voluptu­ous Minds, and feeding upon Sacrifices and Of­ferings, preferr'd Bacchus and his Grapes to the Spirit of Christ.

The Comparison you would insinuate is im­pudent and profane.

Friend, Meekness becometh a Preacher. Thou hast the Passion of a Priest, but not the Meekness of a Minister of the Gospel. Why dost thou fall upon me with bitter Words, for telling thee a Fact, which, in Answer to thee, it was necessary to tell. Is it profane to say that the Heathen Clergy took Offerings? Nay, since thou dost urge me, dost not thou take Offerings? and did the Apostles take any? I have put thee be­tween these Priests and the Apostles, that by com­paring thy self with both, thou may'st see whom thou resemblest most.

If this is not Profaness, I know not what it is.

The Profaneness is not on my Side.

Let me inform you, Sir, that for this Lan­guage, in some Countries, you would have your Tongue cut out of your Head.

I know it; and praise God that I am not in those Countries, and that thou canst not bring those Countries hither. It is plain, thou appro­vest their Barbarity, else why dost thou think it due to me? I beg thou wouldst not be provok'd, if I mention to thee once more the Example of the Apostles: Where did they justify Savageness and Severity to any Man for any Opinion, or any Words? Where did they ever talk to Pagans as thou dost to me, who am a Christian, and endea­vour to possess the Temper of the Gospel?

Yes, you have a Form of Godliness: But—

Friend, in the first Place, judge not: [Page 12] and secondly, beware what thou sayest against Forms, for thy own Sake.

I say, if your Preachers had Power, they would quickly find Texts for Persecution.

I guess thou judgest by thy self; and thou judgest well. We know it; and therefore give them no Power, nor the Sinews of Power. Pride and Impatience are inseparable from it: It destroy­eth all Humility, and maketh Men imperious, and Persecutors. Why are the Popish Priests more cruel and mischievous than Protestant Priests, but because they have more Power? And why is the Pope the most mischievous of all Priests, but because he hath most Power?

You carry every Thing too far. Preachers of the Gospel ought to be kept above Contempt.

Friend, they who are rich in Grace, want no other Riches to save them from Contempt; and they who are rich without it, ought to be contemn'd. Riches may render them formidable; but Piety only, and a holy Conversation, can make them reverenced. Revenues do not place them above Contempt, but only encourage them to despise their People. The Poverty of the Apo­stles was great Part of their Glory.

Of all People I think the Quakers have the least Pretence to glory in their Poverty.

Thou seemest in this, to aim at being severe, but I feel it not. Our moderate Wealth is the Effect of our honest Industry, and we are no ashamed of it.

As well you might, if you got it by you Preaching.

I do not find that thou art asham'd, as yet thy Income is great this Way.

Then you make Comparisons forsooth!

Assuredly, no, thy Motives ours a not a-kin.

I warrant you preach by the Spirit.

How preachest thou? By the Sheet?

I read my Sermons to avoid Incoherences.

Thou needest not, had'st thou the Spirit, it would help thy Infirmities.

Does the Spirit help you to your low Lan­guage, and your silly Repetitions?

If Repetitions are silly, why shuttest not thou thy Common-Prayer Book, which aboundeth therein? And as to our Language, if the Spirit was a Dealer in Style, why doth Paul write such bad Greek, as the Learned say? But I can tell thee, we have many Men amongst us, who preach in as decent Language, and as free from Tauto­logies, as thou canst read out of thy Note-Book. I could mention the different Efficacy too, and the manifest Disinterestedness of our Preachers; but I spare thee.

Spare me! I fear you not.

Why truly, nor I thee, since thou defiest me. I have found thee no terrible Adversary, which may not be the Fault of the Man. Thy Bishop would not do better, tho' his Pay is great­er.

It is too true, he could not: Reason is thrown away upon you, and such as you.

To deal freely with thee, as I am not the richer, so neither art thou the poorer, for any Reason thou hast thrown away upon me.

Where Men pretend to the Spirit, it is in vain to argue with them.

Then why dost thou? But especially why floutest thou the Spirit?

I hope there is a wide Difference between the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Enthusiasm.

Doubtless there is: but I would be glad to hear thee explain the Difference.

The same Difference as there is between a good Understanding, and a wild hot Imagination.

Thy Words sound well, but thy Reason­ing is naught. Is not the Gospel above the best Understanding? and was it not to the Greek Phi­losophers Foolishness? They had as much Sense as thou or thy Bishop, and knew their own Lan­guage better, but could not comprehend the In­carnation and Crucifixion of God, nor Original Sin and the Resurrection. The Light of the Spi­rit hath therefore no Analogy with the natural Understanding, as you your selves contend when you would confute or punish People for following their Reason, and departing from your Systems. I must tell thee too, that the Spirit warmeth both the Heart and the Imagination; for which Cause Festus reckon'd Paul mad, and the first Christians sought Martyrdom. And if—

Be shorter, we see you can preach.

If I do, 'tis Truth, without Tythes, and can but half offend thee.

Mighty witty, I just mentioned Preaching, and presently Tythes must be brought in for Com­pany.

Why, dost thou love them asunder?

Fiddle, faddle, what has all this to do with Enthusiasm?

Nothing; and wherefore didst thou be­gin it? I have shewn thee thy weak Reasoning about Enthusiasm: What sayest thou in Answer?

That the Quakers are Enthusiasts.

And givest no Reason. Is it thus thou convincest Gainsayers, edifiest thy Flock?

My Flock won't come to you for Edification.

It is well for thee they do not. But to keep thee to the Point if I can, I tell thee, that we are no Enthusiasts, and I will give thee a Rea­son: We pretend to no more of the Spirit than [Page 15] influences our Actions, and our Actions are sober and rational. Hast thou found in me the Speech and wild Behaviour of an Enthusiast.

You have no ill Knack at Prating.

Friend, my Prating costeth no Man any Thing.

Tho' 'tis enriched with the Spirit.

I thank thee; thou givest a Reason why it should cost nothing. The Spirit is not bought nor sold, nor are the Works of the Spirit: Where­fore he neither receives Fees, nor claimeth Dues. Simon Magus, who traded in Conjuration and Spells, was profanely for making a Commodity of the Holy Ghost, and offered Money for him, doubt­less with a Design to make more. Thou knowest his Doom; and yet, Friend, there are many Si­mon Magus's in the World, yea worse than Simon Magus. There be many who raise great Reve­nues out of the Spirit, yea, and have him not.

Who goes from the Point now?

I do not. I feared thou wouldst think me too much in Point. We were speaking of the Spirit.

Which you think you have. How do you know it?

There is but one Way. I feel him.

But how shall I be satisfied of that?

The same Way, thou must first feel him too

So say all the Enthusiasts in the World.

Friend, are all who have the Spirit En­thusiasts?

No.

How dost distinguish?

By their Works.

Thou sayest well. Now by what Work of ours do we appear to be Enthusiasts? We are sober in Society, sober in our Families: We fear God, and have an awful Reverence for his Word, [Page 16] which we read continually, insomuch, that for this our Love to the Bible, some of thy Brethren laugh us to Scorn, and scoffingly say, that we are Bible-mad. We fast and we pray in private, and preach and pray in our religious Assemblies, and we have universal Charity. We open our Purses chearfully for the Support of the Publick; we are dutiful Subjects, and meddle not in Factions; we maintain all our own Poor, and contribute not the less to thine; and even the Clergy have Part of our Substance. Seest thou in this true Character, the Marks of Enthusiasm.

You indeed maintain a fair Outside.

Canst thou see further?

I can see your Ghostly Hummings and Hah-ings.

Is it not as easy for thee to call them Sighs and Groans which cannot be utter'd; where­of thou must have read, but seemest not to un­derstand?

Why who can understand the Use of your silent Meetings?

We do, and thou may'st. Friend, our Devotion and holy Exercises are not taken out of a Book, but begin first at the Heart; and when the Heart dictateth not, we speak not. Our God­liness is not performed like a Play by Rehearsal.

This is a villanous Reflection upon the Common-Prayer.

Thou makest it then. I am only defend­ing the religious Worship of the People called Quakers; and I have defended it. I do not re­vile the Church-Exercise: Why revilest thou me?

Who are they that perform their Devotion by Rehearsal like a Play?

We do not: And is it not lawful to say we do not? Knowest thou any that do?

We have a Form of Prayers, the best that ever was composed, and find great Devotion in it.

I rejoice in it? I like all Devotion that is paid to God, and warranted by his Word. I find not Fault with thine, only it is not meet for me, who find more Fervency in my own, and more Edification. And what is the End of Devo­tion but Edification?

Yes, the Glory of God.

God is not glorified, where Men are not edified. Hence every Man must glorify God his own Way.

What in an erronious Way?

Those are Words. No Man errs who pleases God, who is, doubtless, pleased with our best Endeavours to please him: Knowest thou any better Rule?

Yes, the Rule of Certainty.

This is Certainty. Other Certainty than this is not found amongst Men, who must all an­swer for themselves, and therefore must all wor­ship God, as each thinks best.

Which wou'd introduce a thorough Anarchy in Worship.

So there is in Faces; and what Harm en­sueth? God made Faces different; canst thou make them uniform?

No; but Minds are different from Faces. The Mind may be alter'd by Reasoning.

Sometimes for the worse, as well as the better; and so may Faces be altered by good or bad Keeping. But thou may'st depend upon it, Minds will always vary as infinitely as Faces; and for ought I know, more as their Substance is more delicate and quick, and knoweth no parti­cular Figure and Dimensions.

There is, however, no Harm in reasoning with them.

I concur with thee, if that Reasoning be free from Deceit, the next worst Thing to Vio­lence, which ought never to be employed about the Mind, which it can never change.

But in Case of Obstinacy and Disobedience, what Remedy is there?

None. God only can judge the Heart; which he only can see. Thou may'st think me ob­stinate: But I declare sincerely I am not; and thou in Charity oughtest to believe me. If thou dost not, thou art not a good Christian; and if thou wouldst punish me, thou art no Christian. I do not think thou art obstinate, and adherest to Opinions thou dislikest; and I would not hurt a Hair of thy Head, no, not tho' I thought thee obstinate.

This is plausibly said: But God keep me out of your Power.

I desire not to have thee in my Power I know the Frailty of human Nature, and the De­ceitfulness of Power, which perhaps I might abuse. Wherefore I would neither have thee in mine, nor be my self subject unto thine.

Ay, but you are only a private Man.

Friend, all Christians, as Christians, are private Men. There is neither High nor Low in Christianity, but in the Degrees of Grace; and to found Dominion in Grace, is indeed Fanati­cism, as the Clergy, in their Disputes with the Presbyterians, have justly call'd it.

Ay, but they meant Civil Power.

Knowest thou any Power in Society but Civil Power?

Yes, certainly, Power Ecclesiastick.

What to do?

To coerce and punish Offenders against the Laws of the Church.

What in their Bodies and Property?

Without Doubt.

And is not this manifest Civil Power?

Yes, in its Effect.

Then it is in Effect, and in Truth, and entirely Civil Power, which Christianity is a Stran­ger unto; and which is an Enemy to Christianity, when it meddleth therewith.

How! are we not all subject to the Laws of the Church?

To the Laws of Christ, if thou pleasest; my Conscience knoweth no other Master: Doth thine?

No; But my Conscience tells me that there ought to be spiritual Governors in the Church.

Governors are Masters; and the Consci­ence cannot be master'd.

What, not directed?

If by Direction, thou meanest Instruction, it hath no Relation to Government. And all Men that can instruct, ought to instruct.

What, without a Call?

To be able is a sufficient Call; and no Call sufficeth without Ability.

But who shall judge of that Call?

He who hath it, and they to whom he mi­nistreth.

The Common People are rare Judges!

The common'st Man is a good Judge, whether he is edified by his Preacher, or not.

Perhaps they are both Enthusiasts.

They may be pious Christians for all that: If their Affections are good towards God, they will certainly be saved.

Nay, I don't wonder at your Charity for Enthusiasts. It is but natural.

I have Charity for all Men, as every true Christian hath even for thee. Art thou an En­thusiast?

No; I am a Member of the Church of Christ.

Shew it by thy Charity. Thou hast nei­ther Charity nor Understanding, if thou wouldst exclude all Enthusiasts from Christ's Church.

They exclude themselves.

Thy Censure is passionate and cruel. No Man chuseth to be an Enthusiast, nor knows that he is: Wouldst thou damn him for invincible Weakness?

What shall I do with him, if he will not be reclaim'd?

That is Part of his Weakness; and thou hast nothing to do with him. What wouldst thou have to do, where thou canst do nothing? Those who have Conscience know that it is not to be commanded nor plied.

A Whipping-Post has some Times work'd great Cures that Way.

Upon Hypocrites. Dost thou reckon Conscience an Evil? and would a Whipping-Post cure thee of thine?

You are an unmannerly Fellow.

Would that were the worst I could say of thee.

Sir, What can you say of me?

What I will not say. I do not like thy Example so well, as to follow it; nor will I ful­fil the Character thou givest of me. I will only assure thee, that thou art not qualified to rebuke, unmannerly Language; and that for my self, I would rather want Breeding than Charity.

I perceive my Censure of your Brethren, the Enthusiasts, touches you.

With Compassion for thee, who art the greatest Enthusiast I ever met with.

Hey dey! Mr. Pert; what, is your Head turn'd?

I am going to shew thee that thine is: For [Page 21] Reasoning hath no Manner of Effect upon thee; and thou reckon'st every Man who is out of thy Favour, to be moreover out of the Favour of God. All which is manifest Enthusiasm, and the worst Parts of Enthusiasm, the Enthusiasm of Monks and Dervises, and of Bigots and Persecu­tors of all Sides and Sorts.

Thou art a very merry Fellow.

I am not merry: Thou makest me melan­choly to see such an Antichristian Spirit in thee.

Are you really in Earnest, when you change me with Enthusiasm?

Thou chargest thy self, by declaring for Persecution; a Crime against the very Essence of Christianity. If thou art not an Enthusiast, thou art worse.

Why, I tell you, I am an Enemy to Enthu­siasts.

In that very Thing thou art one. Thou art an Enthusiast against Enthusiasm. If Enthusi­asts hurt not thee, why shouldst thou be their Enemy?

I am sure you talk like a wild Enthusiasts.

So thou sayest; but thou provest nothing. I talk against Persecution.

To punish Disobedience to our spiritual Go­vernors, is, forsooth, Persecution!

I thought I had already shewn thee the Vanity of thy Language about spiritual Gover­nors, which Words contradict each other. None but God can govern the Spirit of Man. All Go­vernment amongst Men is human Government, which meddleth only with the Peace and Proper­ty of Society: When it would controul the Con­sciences of Men, it invadeth the Jurisdiction, and usurps the Prerogative of the Almighty, and is guilty of Persecution.

But don't you disturb the Peace of the Church, which is Part of the Government!

We our selves are Part of the Church of Christ, and give no Disturbance to the rest; and if thy Pride is disturb'd at our Christian Liberty, the Scripture condemneth thee. We cannot, as we are Christians, sacrifice our Conscience to any Man's Ambition. Can a peaceable Compliance with private Conscience, disturb any Man who hath the Spirit of Christ? The Business of Reli­gion is to find a Way to Heaven: Art thou dis­turb'd because I chuse that which appears the shortest, and which to me is the only comfortable Way?

But if you are in a wrong Way, and I would compel you in the right Way, I do you no Injury, but real Service.

Friend, hast thou ever been there? And have not I the same written Directions from the Hand of God as thou hast, about the Length and Difficulty of the Road? If thou wouldst take my divine Rules for Travelling out of my Hand, or force thy self upon me for a Guide, and drive me into a Road which I do not find in my Book, and make me pay for all this, I shall suspect thee for mine Enemy, and for a Freebooter, who wouldst carry me out of the Way into a Wilderness, to rob me. Let me ask the Question; Wouldst thou be compell'd to accompany me in my Journey Hea­venward?

No Faith for two unaswerable Reasons: First, you are not going thither.

I dare neither think nor say the like of thee: Only thy Road is not my Road.

Secondly, you have no Warrant to compel me.

Thou speakest Truth: No Man hath a Warrant to force Faiths, or to carry another Man's Conscience.

But you allow me a Right to direct Consci­ence.

Yes, if it liketh thy Direction. I have the same Right.

You have Self-Conceit in Abundance.

When thou art free from it, thy Rebuke may be seasonable. I think I have Impartiality too; my Religion bringeth me no Rents; I only seek Salvation from it.

Smart again, forsooth!

Dost thou feel it?

If I do, I ought to bear it, you know, from a Teacher.

I wish thou wer't one. I am sure thou hast hitherto taught me nothing. I have fully confuted all thy Propositions, and thou hast not answer'd mine.

You are too wise a Man to be confuted or convinced.

By thy Arguments, undoubtedly.

By any Arguments.

That are insufficient.

In short, you are the most incorrigible Sect living.

And art thou not vain to endeavour to correct what thou sayest cannot be corrected?

I would, at least, do my Duty, and save your Soul, if I could.

My Soul is safe in the Blood of Christ. Knowest thou any other Safety?

Your Safety will fail you, if you do not worship him in a proper Manner.

I believe in him, I pray to him, and to God thorough him; I pray for his Spirit, I seek his Will in his Word, and beg Grace to under­stand it, and praise him for it; and I live sober­ly. Is not this the Whole of Religion, and of re­ligious Worship? Canst thou teach me any better?

If you were to be taught, I could teach you to worship him decently.

Thou meanest, I suppose, to bow at Sounds, to make Legs to a Table, and to say after thee. This is not religious Worship, but a Task which any Infidel can perform; nay, we have Creatures amongst us that are not rational, and yet can per­form it.

Was there ever such profane Buffoonry?

Why truly I think not.

None but a Pagan could jest thus with sacred Things.

Thou art mistaken, Friend; Pagans reck­on them sacred, and solemnized in their Temples a Number of merry Motions, which were a Jest to the primitive Christians.

Good Things are not the worse for having been abus'd by the Heathens.

True, nor foolish Things the wiser for be­ing us'd by Christians.

What! do you call the Ceremonies of our holy Church foolish?

No; But to me they are not edifying.

To me they are; but your Heart is harden'd.

Do not Things that are edifying soften the Heart? else what are they good for?

Grace must go along with them.

Friend, won't Grace do without Cere­monies? Whoever hath Grace is already edified? And cannot I pray for Grace without Ceremonies?

Our Church has establish'd them as neces­sary to Decency and Edification. Has the Authori­ty of the Church no Weight with you?

Yes, great Weight, where she erreth not?

Of which you pretend to judge.

Dost thou follow any Church without knowing why? or should any Man?

No.

Then every Man ought to judge of every Church, as thou dost, by separating from every Church but thy own, doubtless, because thou art [Page 25] most edified by her. And when she edifieth me also, I will also join with her.

You ought to join with her: She is the esta­blish'd Church.

If ours were establish'd, wouldst thou join with us?

How! I join with Fanaticks!

It becometh not me to return ill Lan­guage: But it is plain thou valuest not Establish­ments; and why would thou expect it from others, and set up Duty against Conscience.

Conscience!—Cant!

By our Conscience we must please God: But if it offendeth thee, I will call it by another Name; I will call it Opinion. Now, suppose I differ in Opinion with thee and thy Church, wouldst thou have me be an insincere Man, an Hypocrite, and a Lyar, by declaring my self of thy Opinion, when I am not?

No:— But—

Have Patience: I have another Question to put to thee.—Would it thou have me change my Mind, when I cannot change it?

No Man shall tell me, that it is impossible for him to be of the true Religion.

I am of the true Religion; and so thinks every Man, it being every Man's nearest Interest to be of the best.

A Medley of Religions is pernicious to Society.

Pernicious (if thou pleasest) to the Pride of Men who would ride upon Society, over the Belly of Conscience. But what hath human So­ciety to do with what is in the Heart of Man, concerning a future State, wherewith rhere can be no human Commerce? Human Society, indeed, should beware of those Men who, under Colour of conducting to the other World, would engross this; of Men who would make the whole Body [Page 26] Politick their Slaves and Tenants, and would take so much Care of Posture and Opinions, as to leave them nothing but Postures and Opinions to take Care of.

A fine Harangue, truly! Who are the ter­rible Fellows that do, or would do all this?

All who would bear no Religion in the World but their own. The Popish Clergy have done it; and all other Clergy who make the same Demands upon Society that they do, would do the same. Do not all thy High Brethren make the same Demands, and contend for all the Tyranny, and Wealth, and Pomp of Popery?

I am not for Popery: But I am for the Church's having all her own Power and Lands.

That is, thou art for the worst Parts of Popery, but not for Popery. Friend, Religion claimeth neither Power nor Lands: Our Saviour had none, the Apostles had none, and we claim none; and we cannot interfere with Society, as they do who demand every Thing that is great and good in Society.

A pretty Fellow to regulate Society!

I meddle not with Society: I only desire its Protection.

What have you to do then with Church-Lands?

Nothing. What hast thou? They were robbed from the Laiety by the Popish Monks.—Art thou one? At the Reformation the Laiety re­sum'd them again: And doth the Church of Christ condemn the Reformation? Or what hath she to do with the Cheats and Robberies of Monks, but to condemn them?

I hope you will allow us to keep what the Law gives us.

But why claimest thou more? And hath not the Law that gave, a Power to take away?

I dare say, you don't mean your own Estate.

Yes, surely, if I robb'd the Publick to get it, or turn the Bounty of the Publick to the publick Detriment.

Have you the Impudence to say the Clergy do so?

Friend, there are Clergy who do so; who for their own Pride and Debaucheries starve the Laiety that feed their Luxury; who receive all their Power and Revenues from the Laiety, and leave the Laiety none. And there are others who have great Benefices for the Exercise of Religious Functions, and never exercise any, but convert them into Sine Cures, or leave them to a Hire­ling. This, Friend, is worse than Impudence, whereof I am not guilty. Does the Spirit call them to this? For if I am not deceiv'd, you all declare your selves call'd by the Spirit.

I know you are nibbling at our keeping Cu­rates; and yet you keep a Bailiff upon your Estate.

Yes: and I will turn him out, if he ne­glects my Affairs, or trust them to a Carter. How dost thou like the Example? It is of thy own chusing. And thou puttest the Cure of precious Souls, for which Christ died, upon the same Foot with the Care of Corn and Cattle, which Men eat, and upon a worse Foot, if thou wilt not suf­fer us to chuse our Spiritual Bailiffs.

And so you would have the same Autho­rity over Clergymen, as over your Ploughmen! Mighty Civil!

We maintain both, but at very unequal Wages. Where would be the Incivility or Injus­tice of laying out our own Money for our own Use?

Then the Church might starve for you.

Friend, thou may'st be learned, but thou art very ignorant. The Church of Christ cannot starve, because it liveth not upon Meats, and Drink, and Money.

Nor consists of solemn Faces, prim Cravats [Page 28] plain Coats, and broad Hats.

Thou speakest Truth, notwithstanding thy Intention.

Then why are you singular in your Habits?

Why art thou?

I am a Minister of the Gospel.

Which never gave there that Tippet, nor that long and unhandy Coat with many Plaits.

But it is decent.

My Coat is more decent, and would be­come thee better. It is plain and warm, and hath no long Train nor vain Superfluities.

That solemn Gait and Mein too is very becoming.

Wouldst thou have me cut Capers, and practise Smiles?

And be sure never alter the Figure of that broad Hat.

It is not broader than thine.

I tell you I am a Minister.

Thy Hat is none; and I make no mini­sterial Use of mine. I do not go to my Neigh­bour, and say, Neighbour, I demand the Tenth of thy Substance by Vertue of this broad Hat.

Sir, WHO does!

Friend, thou art very passionate. I am only defending my Hat, whereof I make no other Use but to keep my Head warm.

Why don't you pull it off upon Occasion?

I do upon proper Occasion, that is, when I seek God.

But never to Man.

Therefore I do not, because I do it only to God? I think that the Acts of Worship, which we pay unto God, ought not to be confounded with Ceremonies of Civility paid unto Men. Thou bowest at the Name of Jesus: Dost thou bow also at the Name of the King?

But you are inconsistent with your selves. [Page 29] Your Stile to God and Man is the same; and you thee and thou them both alike.

We speak properly, to one God, as one God, to one Man as one Man. Thou art more inconsistent with thy self. Thou reckonest thee and thou disrespectful to Man: Why usest thou the same Language to God?

It is the Scripture-Stile.

To Man as well as to God. Besides, Friend, let me tell thee, that the using the plural Num­ber to single Persons, was begun in Flattery to Princes and great Men; as was also the Ceremo­ny of the Hat and the Knee, and came to be practis'd as Marks of Adoration paid to Men, who were thereby set up in God's Stead; and where they cannot go that Length, yet they feed natu­ral Pride, and make Differences amongst Men, where Nature hath made none.

We do not use them as Marks of Adorati­on.

I believe thee; but still they are Marks of Insincerity, and of a Submission which is not due from Man to Man. Friend, these civil Ce­remonies are of evil Efficacy, and apt to deceive the Mind into a slavish and superstitious Vene­ration for Persons. They make unnatural Distan­ces in Society; and set Men too far above and below one another. By such Steps Kings came to be worshipp'd as Gods, as several of the Roman Emperors formerly, and lately thy Friend Louis was deified by many of thy French Brethren.

Does the Light within teach you all this?

My Natural Light, which thou callest Reason, sufficeth to confute thee. The other Light seemeth to be withheld from thee, and therefore thou mockest it; it better becomes a Christian to pray for it.

You are an impudent Man: Is it from your inward Light that you reproach me, as if I [Page 30] were not a Christian?

Thou art very tender: I do not reproach thee with any such Thing: But I am sure that Christianity teacheth no Man to deny the inward Light, and to wax angry and revile.

I do not deny that there is such a Thing as the Light of the Spirit, but I deny that you have it.

Thy Censure is rash. How knowest thou what is within, me?

By what comes out of you.

I judge not of thee by the same Rule; I hope thou hast Charity, tho' I see it not. But I will abide by thy Rule in Relation to my self. What hast thou heard me utter but the Words of Truth and Soberness?

Not a Word of the Spirit, I am sure.

Knowest thou him? If thou dost, thou must know, that he is the Author of Truth.

But not of Sauciness ane Schism.

True, Doctor; and therefore the Quakers do not saucily insult, nor uncharitably damn all those, or any of those who differ from them. That is the only Antichristian Schism, which damneth all Men-as Schismaticks, except its own cruel Club.

A smart Casuist, I'll assure you, to vindi­cate the Quakers from Schism!

I wish thou couldst vindicate thy self as well upon the same pious and benevolent Principle

What do you charge the establish'd Church with Schism?

God forbid; I only wish thee, and such at are like thee, a more peaceable and more merciful Spirit. Thou art not the establish'd Church.

And dare you say, that the Quakers are not Schismaticks?

Yes, certainly: I think that all good Men, of all Professions, will be saved. This is Charity; [Page 31] I separate from no Church out of Pride or Interest, and am therefore no Schismatick.

And here, I suppose, the Spirit is your Voucher.

I desire no other, and can have no other for the Thoughts of my Heart.

For which we are to take your Word; for I think you never take Oaths.

The Scripture forbiddeth us to swear at all.

It forbids profane Cursing and Swearing.

Doctor, it forbids all Swearing.

But the Solemnity of an Oath in the Pre­sence of God is an Act of Religion.

All Speaking is in the Presence of God, and speaking the Truth is an Act of Religion. When we are called upon to give our Testimony to the Truth, we never refuse it.

I should be sorry to have my Property de­pend upon your Affirmation.

If I am a good Man, thou needest not di­strust me; if I am a bad Man, my Oath will not secure you.

I believe, indeed, the Affirmation and Oath of a Quaker are much alike.

They ought to be alike amongst all Chri­stians, and all moral Men; and therefore let thy Meaning be ever so bitter, thou givest an honou­rable Testimony to our Friends: I hope thou findest the same Faithfulness and Sincerity amongst thine. Is not the Word of a Churchman as good as his Oath?

I hope better than a Quaker's, at least.

Not if a Quaker speaketh the Truth.

That if was well put in.

Be it so; tho' thou mightest have spared thy Reproach, by which thou wo't gain nothing. None of us have been accused of false Evidence; and doubtless thou hast heard of many Church­men punish'd with publick Infamy for Perjury.

I suppose you do the Thing more slyly.

I thank thee for allowing us to have more Discretion than thy Disciples: If they have, at least, as few Restraints, and more Folly than we have, how are they better'd by thy Teaching? and how is their Oath better than our Affirmation.

You are the most unmannerly of all Sects: So unmannerly, that there is no living with you; and all that do, despise you.

Doctor, I in particular have given thee no Cause for thy Accusation, nor for thy Con­tempt; and what thou sayest of us in general, thou sayest passionately, and it comes from Prejudice or ill Information. In Pensylvania, where we have the Power, we do not molest nor revile any Man of any Religion; and thou thy self, for all thy intemperate Spirit, mightest live there with full Freedom.

I live amongst you! I live amongst Fana­ticks!

I do not invite thee: There are no Tythes there to allure; but there are Indians to convert. How likest thou the Employment, and the Terms thereof?

Sir, I have no Call there; I have Em­ployment in my own Parish.

I hope thou hadst a Call thither?

Yes, Mr. Pert, to preserve Peace and re­ligious Order, thou you are an Enemy to all Order.

Thou hast not a more orderly Man in thy Parish: And many of thy Flock are very disor­derly, especially upon Holidays, which, I think, are Part of your Order, and celebrated with Drunkenness, and breaking my Windows.

Did I exhort them to it?

No; thou didst only paint out Quakers to them, as a People not fit to live among Chri­stians.

I preach'd what I thought it my Duty to preach.

And they practis'd what they thought thou hadst taught them to practise.

If you would wisely remove to Pennsylvania, you might live there with Freedom, you know.

So I would, if my Affairs would let me; as I might here, under the Protection of the Law, if thou wouldst let me. Let me tell thee, Friend, for the Credit of the Quakers Government in Pennsylvania, there is not a more thriving Colony in America. They encourage and protect all Men, and persecute none: They are friendly to the sa­vage Indians, who come freely into their Houses by Day, and by Night; and any Man in a Qua­ker's Habit may travel safely and singly thro' all the Nations of North America, who will be ready to receive and assist him.

The Quakers are oblig'd to live peaceably with their Neighbours: You know they must not fight.

Knowest thou any better way to avoid Fighting, than a peaceable Spirit? And ought not all Men to avoid Fighting? The Quakers, since their first Establishment there, have had no Wars: It is not so in New-England, where Men like thee, are for spiritual Dominion, and trust to the Sword. There they use the poor Natives ill, who make frequent Incursions upon them. Men who will take away by Violence the Lands and Goods of o­thers, and domineer over them, must fight to de­fend what they do. The Quakers have hurt no Man, and no Man offers to hurt them.

Commend me to their human Prudence! the Quakers will make no Man their Enemy by Their Zeal for Christianity.

Friend, thy Abuse ends in Praise. The Quakers use no Man as an Enemy for his Religi­on; and they who do have not Zeal, but Fury and Fanaticism. Our Saviour and his Apostles [Page 34] had no such Zeal. Ill Usage, Fierceness, and Barbarity, convince no Man; nor is any Man made a Christian by Rage and Power.

It would be great Pity that such as you should make any: A Pagan converted into a Qua­ker, makes but a sorry Exchange.

Those Words would fit the Mouth of a Pagan better than thine; and a Quaker is better qualified to reason with a Pagan than thou art: We have nothing to desire of him but to be a Chri­stian, and we gain neither Money nor Authority by his Conversion. But with what Face can such as thou art, tell a Nation of Heathens, ‘Gentle­men, be of my Religion, and in Requital I will be your Lord and Master, and take the Tenth of all you have, and all else that I can get: None of which can ever return to you again, let me use it, or abuse you how I will.’ And yet can Men of thy Spirit and Pretensions reason in Sincerity at any other Rate with any Set of Men in the World.

The Man raves.— Can People pay too much for their Souls?

They ought to pay nothing: The Blood of Christ is already paid. Is not that sufficient? And dost thou really confess that thou wouldst not save Souls without Payment?

I will bear no more.— This is audacious beyond human Patience!

Doctor, Nothing is beyond Christian Pa­tience.

Too much Liberty makes you insolent.—We shall find some other Way of confuting you.

Thou meanest Force, which is the Cham­pion of bad Reasoning, and a bad Cause.

Hold your Tongue, Prater.

I have Liberty of Speech from Christ and the Law. Wouldst thou restrain it by thy Breath?

It is pity thy Breath were not restrain'd.

Friend, God forgive thee. Farewell.