Well overtaken Sir.

You are very welcome Sir.

I pray you Sir how far travaile you this way.

As far as Nottingham, if the Lord permit.

And whence come you Sir I pray you.

From London Sir.

Indeed I thought by your habit you were a Citizen of London, and to tell you truly, I am glad I met with you, for that I much desire to heare what newes at London this Parliament time; therefore if I can intreat so much favour at your hands, as to accept of my company a mile or two of your way, and to relate unto me some of your newes at Lon­don, I shall thinke my self much bounden unto you.

Sir, you seeme to be an honest grave coun­trey Gentleman, and therefore your company to me is very acceptable, and I should be glad that you had further to goe on in my way, and shall be willing to pleasure you in telling you any newes I know at London.

Sir, I thanke you very kindly, and first of all I pray you tell me, is the Parliament like to sit still, and not be dissolved.

Yea, I make no doubt of it, for thankes be to the Lord there is an Act for that purpose.

Blessed be the Lord for it, I rejoyce to heare it, assuring my self, if they sit without disturbance they will amend many things that are amiss both in the Church and Common-wealth.

God grant it, say I; for in my judgement there is great need.

Yea doubtlesse, and I pray you Sir what heare you concerning those that have been the trou­blers of this our Israel.

Concerning them, this I say for certaine, that some of them are fled, and one is dead, and others are yet alive.

And who be they I pray you that are fled.

Finch, Windebank, and divers of that wret­ched crew, whose names I cannot now remember.

And who is he I pray you that is dead?

The Deputy of Ireland, that traiterous wretch, and murdering caitife.

And who are they I pray you that are yet alive.

Great Belzebub, that Prince of devils, who though he is fast chained up in the Tower, yet ma­ny others of his infernall Spirits are yet at liberty.

Sir, by your favour, I must make bold to tell you before we proceed any further, tha I thinke you doe very ill in giving them such titles, you seeme by your civill habit to be a man professing the feare of God, and therefore I thinke it meet for mee [Page 3] to tell you that these are unchristian like speeches.

Why Sir, I pray you, can a man speake too ill of them that have been enemies to all righteous­nesse, Acts 13.8. did not the Apostle Paul call Elimas the Sor­cerer as ill as I call them *.

It is very true indeed, the Apostle Paul called him as ill, yet doubtlesse it is not lawfull for you to follow his example therein, except you bee full of the holy Ghost, as the Text saith Paul was, and thereby was able to discerne him to be the childe of the devill: and besides, as I hope, you know our best Divines M. Dent. doe forbid us to speake evill either of them that are absent, or of the dead; yea, Tit. 2.2. the Apo­stle Paul goes further, speake evill of no man.

But if you were in London, you should not only heare bad men, but also many good men speak as ill of them as I have done: yea, you shall see divers writings, yea, and Bookes printed, lying on many Booksellers Stals to be sold, that give them as bad language as I have done.

The more is the pitty, I am sorry to heare it, being assured that this is not the language of Ca­naan, which every Christian ought to speake. Doe you not remember the Apostle Iude writes, that when Michael the Archangell strove against the de­vill, and disputed about the body of Moses, durst not blame him with cursed speaking, or give him any railing accusation, but only said, the Lord rebuke thee: and to tell you truly, though I my selfe be one whom they call a Professor, yet doe I utterly dislike this disposition which I have observed in many, who are called by that name, in uttering such bitter words against grosse offenders, and much more if [Page 4] they write or print Bookes in that nature, to tell you truly, I like not such Satyricall spirits.

Why, but Sir by your favour, I conceive that such Bookes doe much good, for first, thereby it is possible that such as have offended may come to see their offence thereby, and so be brought to shame, and afterwards to repentance: and then secondly, hereby it is made apparant to the world, what they are, and so they come to be detested, and at last cut off from troubling this our Israel; as one is, and I hope more will follow.

Sir, I pray you conceive that it is not the matter of such Bookes that I doe simply condemne, but the manner or stile of them; for I conceive if such matter as is in some of them, were composed after a sober, pittifull, and Christian-like manner, without tart or bitter speeches, then it were possi­ble they might be a meanes to worke shame and re­pentance in the hearts of offendors. Let the sin bee shamed rather then the sinner, the particulars of­fensive, then the persons offending, saith a godly man: but this tart manner spoiles all; for first it makes the offendors conceive, that the authors and approvers of them doe hate their persons, and so speake out of malice, or desire of revenge, and so by that meanes they doe but exasperate them, or har­den them, and rather keep them from repentance, then bring them unto it, and besides, without Gods preventing grace, they will occasion the readers, or hearers of them, either to hate their persons, or jeere them, or both; it is a most intemperate zeale M. By field saith a godly Divine, that spends it selfe in the vain and bootlesse censure of the estate of those that are [Page 5] without: those censures have in them much of pro­vocation, and nothing of edification; it were hap­py for some Christians if they could with the Apo­tle say often to their own soules, 1 Cor. 5.12, 13. what have I to doe to judge them that are without.

Well Sir, one thing I can assure you of up­on my own knowledge, that the printing and selling of such Bookes hath been a meanes to help many a poore man in London these dead times of trading.

That may be indeed, and yet the Bookes never the more lawfull or warrantable for that, you know wee must not doe evill that good may come thereof.

Well Sir, let us leave off this discourse concerning the Bookes, and let us proceed a little futher in our discourse concerning the persons who are the subject matter of such Bookes, and I pray you tell me how you conceive a Christian man is to stand affected toward such persons?

Without question he ought to love their persons as they are men, you know whose words they are, Mat. 5.44. But I say unto you, love your ene­mies.

Indeed I grant, if they were my private ene­mies I ought to love them, yea, and so far forth as they are so, I ought to doe it; but these men are pub­like enemies, yea, Gods enemies, such as oppose and hate the truth of God, and persecute it in the professors thereof, yea they are such as are enemies to any good course, and godly proceedings.

Though they be Gods enemies, and pub­like enemies, yet for ought you know while they are alive they may be curable, and therefore though you [Page 6] may hate their sins, and pray against their devices, yet must you love their persons.

But did not Paul and David hate the per­sons of such, and pray against them, and may not we imitate them therein?

It is true indeed, Paul prayed against Ale­xander the Copper-smith, 2 Tim. 4. Psal. 139.32. that God would reward him according to his workes; So David saith, Do not I hate them O Lord that hate thee? &c. and so in many other Psalmes he prayes for the finall and utter destruction of his enemies, which indeed is a signe of utter hatred, yet this was because they were not only Gods enemies, but desperate and irrecove­rable ones, which they saw by the Spirit of God, be­ing extraordinarily and infallibly informed thereof, and therefore their prayers were but prophecies of the finall destruction of these men, as Psal. 63.9. and 54. and 5. But for us, because we have not the like measure or gift of Spirit, we have no such war­rant either to hate, or pray directly against any mans person.

Well Sir, I tell you truly I did not consi­der these things before now, and I begin to feare my heart hath not been so rightly affected towards these men whom I have named, as it ought, therefore I pray you proceed further in this matter.

I will, as the Lord shall enable me, and first as touching them that are yet living, I conceive it is the duty of a Christian, and that which doth most expresse a Christian-like spirit, to expresse our love to them in being sorry, yea, and in mourning for them, yea, and the more we heare their faults disco­vered, the more we are to sorrow for them: & this I [Page 7] am confident hath warrant from Scripture, doe you not remember what the Apostle said to the Corin­thians touching the incestuous person, and you are puffed up saith he, 1 Cor 5.2. and have not rather sorrowed. It is a place that I have often thought upon, and to tell you truly, I have found such a disposition in my owne heart as was in these Corinthians, and that is, when I have heard-of others that have committed some grosse offences, I have as it were found my heart glad within me, or rather puffed up with pride, because I have not been guilty of the like transgressions, when as it is cleare by the Text, that I should rather have sorrowed for them, for want of which disposition, the Apostle blames the Corin­thians; it was well said therefore of one, in the Booke called the Lives of the Fathers, when it was told him that one of his brethren was fallen into whoredome; he fell yesterday saith he, and I may fall to day; to this purpose Luther hath an excel­lent saying, we must not saith he, measure our own holinesse by other mens sins, therefore let him that standeth, take heed lest he fall, 1 Cor. 10.12. and have ye not con­sidered when it was revealed to Elisha by the Spirit of prophecie, what grosse crimes Hazael should commit hereafter? the Text saith, that he looked up­on him stedfastly, and wept; now if that the Pro­phet of God wept when he considered the evill which that wicked man should commit hereafter, ought not we, think you, to doe the like when wee consider what wickednesse men have committed heretofore, and indeed Sir, if we did well we should make this good use thereof unto our selves, that is, when we heare what transgressions others have com­mitted, [Page 8] we should therein as in a glasse behold our owne natures, we being the very same by nature as they are, and if we had the same temptations which they had, and the Lord should leave us to our selves as he left them, we should certainly commit the like transgressions which they have done. To this pur­pose I remember a story which I heard a godly Di­vine relate in the Pulpit concerning a certaine man, who being distressed in conscience by reason of the apprehension of the greatnesse of his sins, one of his Christian friends labouring to comfort him, willed him to consider that his sins were not so great as Manasses were, who yet notwithstanding were for­given, whereupon he replyed, if I had lived in Ma­nasses times, and had had the same temptations as Manasses had, I should have committed as great sins as Manasses did. Wee cry out saith another godly Divine, against Cain for murdering his brother, and against Iudas, for betraying his Master, when as we our selves have the same murderous and traiterous disposition in us by nature; to this purpose Austin speaketh well saying, There is no sin which any man hath done, but another man might doe the same; yea, saith Luther, God by such examples doth shew unto us our owne weaknesse, that we should not wax proud, but stand in feare, according to that of the Apostle, Gal. 6.2. Considering thy selfe, lest thou also bee tempted.

Truly Sir, it would be very well if we could be thus affected towards them, and that we could make such good use thereof as you have spoken, for then should we pitty them, and pray for them, as I now perswade my selfe it is our duty.

Yea surely, whilest they are alive it is our duty to pray for them, the faithful, saith Calvin, desire as much as lyeth in them, that the wicked should returne to a perfect minde, and so they seeke their salvation, that they should not perish, thus then we must pray to God to pardon them, and to turne their hearts, and to move us hereunto, Mat. 5.44. let us first consider that our Saviour commands it. Se­condly, let us consider that they are our owne flesh. Esay 58.7. Thirdly, consider they have some part at the least of Gods image in them, but alas this duty is contrary to the nature that is in us, and the practise of the world, and therefore contrary to this duty, they doe hate them, rejoyce at their fall, speake all ill both to them, and of them, and interpret all things against them.

Well Sir, you have fully satisfied me how we should be affected towards the living, I pray de­clare likewise how we should be affected towards the dead.

As we must pray for them whilest they are alive, so must we pitty them being cut off, because they have brought misery upon themselves.

But may we not lawfully rejoyce when wic­ked men are taken away, are wee not bidden to re­joyce at wicked mens destructions, Psal. 52. and Psal. 58.10.

Indeed thus much I doe grant, that though we know not mens finall estate, yet if we see any no­torious enemy of the Church and Gospel, and good men taken away, we may give God thankes, and in some sense rejoyce, as namely, for that God hath shewed himselfe carefull of his Church, and hath [Page 10] provided for his owne glory, the comfort of his people, and passage of goodnesse, and for the terror of other bad ones left behinde, but we must no waies rejoyce as it is the destruction of the person: but I being now come to my journies end, must of neces­sity breake off, though abruptly, except you will be pleased to light and refresh your selfe, and your horse with such provision as our Countrey affords.

Truly Sir, I am heartily sorrie that you are so soone come to your owne home, and that I cannot by any meanes stay any longer with you, for I desire to reach to Nottingham to night, and you see the day is far spent, so that if I should stay, I feare I should be benighted, wherefore Sir I give you most hearty thankes for your good company, and especially for your Christian-like discourse, the which I hope I shall never forget, and if it please the Lord to bring me to London againe, I purpose to acquaint my friends with these things, who have as well as I been heretofore too harsh in judging and speaking against these men.

Sir, I should have been right glad to have heard more newes from London, but seeing you cannot conveniently stay, there is no remedy, I thanke you for your company, and so the Lord be with you, and send you well to your journies end.

The Lord be with you also I beseech him, Amen.