A COMMON APOLOGIE AGAINST THE BROWNISTS.
SECTION I.
IF TRVTH and PEACE (
Zacharies two Companions) had met in our loue, this Controuersie had neuer bin;
The Entrance into the worke.
Zach. 8.29. the seuering of these two hath caused this separation: for while some vnquiet mindes haue sought Truth without Peace, they haue at once lost Truth, Peace, Loue, vs and themselues. God knowes how vnwillingly I put my hand to this vnkinde quarrell: Nothing so much abates the courage of a Christian, as to call his Brother Aduersarie: We must doe it;
Math. 18.7. woe be the men by whom this offence commeth: Yet by how much the insultation of a brotherly enemie is more intolerable; and the griefe of our blessed Mother greater, for the wrong of her owne; So much more cause I see to breake this silence: If they will haue the last words, they may not haue all. For our carriage to them: They say, when Fire,
Otho. Frising. ex Philem. V
[...]. Chalde
[...]. Ruffin. Eccles. Hist. l.
2. cap.
26. the god of the Chaldees had deuoured all the other woodden Deities, that
Canopis set vpon him a Caldron full of water, whose bottome was deuised with holes stopt with waxe; which no sooner felt the flame, but gaue way to the quenching of that furious Idoll. If the fire of inordinate zeale, conceit, contention, haue consumed al other parts in the separation, and cast forth (more than
Nebuchadnezzars Furnace) from their Amsterdam hither;
Dan. 3. it were well if the waters of our moderation and reason could vanquish, yea abate it: This little Hin. of mine shall be spent that way: wee may try and wish, but not hope it: The spirits of these men are too well knowne, to admit any expectation of yeeld
[...]nce. Since yet both for preuention and necessary defence, this taske must be vndertaken,
id. Treatis. of certaine godly Minist. against
Bar. I craue nothing of my Reader but patience and iustice: of God, victory to the Truth: as for fauour, I wish no more than an enemie would giue against himselfe: With this confidence I enter into these lists, and turne my pen to an Aduersarie, God knowes whether more proud or weake.
SEP.
IT is an hard thing euen for sober-minded men in cases of controuersie, to vse soberly the aduantages of the times: vpon which whilest men are mounted on high, they vse to
[Page 550] behold such as they oppose too ouerlie, and not without contempt; and so are oft-times emboldned to roule vpon them as from aloft very weake and weightlesse discourses, thinking any sleight and slender opposition sufficient to oppresse those vnderlings, whom they haue (as they suppose) at so great an aduantage. Vpon this very presumption it commeth to passe, that this Author vndertaketh thus solemnely and seuerely to censure a cause, whereof (as appeareth in the sequele of the discourse) he is vtterly ignorant: which had he been but halfe so carefull to haue vnderstood, as he hath been forward to censure, he would either haue beene (I doubt not) more equall towards it, or more weighty against it.
As this Epistle is come to mine hands, so I wish the answer of it may come to the hands of him that occasioned it: Intreating the Christian Reader, in the name of the Lord, vnpartially to behold without either preiudice of cause, or respect of person, what is written on both sides, and so from the Court of a sound Conscience to giue iust iudgement.
SECTION II.
The answerers Preamble, retorted, confuted.IT is an hard thing euen for those that would seeme sober-minded men, in cases of Controuersie, to vse soberly the frownes and disaduantages of causes and times: whereby whiles men are deiected and troden downe, they vse to behold their opposites mounted on high, too repiningly, and not without desperate enuie: and so are oft-times moued to shoot vp at them, as from below, the bitter arrowes of spitefull and spleenish discourses; thinking any hatefull opposition sufficiently charitable, to oppugne those aduersaries, which haue them (as they feele) at so great an aduantage: vpon this impotent maliciousnesse, it commeth to passe, that this Answerer vndertaketh thus seuerely and peremptorily, to censure that charitable censure, of ignorance, which (as shall appeare in the sequell) he either simply or willingly vnderstood not: and to brand a deare Church of Christ with Apostasie, Rebellion, Antichristianisme: What can bee more easie than to returne accusations?
Your Preamble (with a graue bitternesse) charges me with, First, Presumption vpon aduantages, Secondly, Weake and weightlesse discourse, Thirdly, Ignorance of the cause censured: It had beene madnesse in me to write, if I had not presumed vpon aduantages; but of the cause of the truth, not of the times: Though (blessed bee God) the times fauour the truth, and vs: if you scorne them and their fauours, complaine not to be an vnderling: thinke that the times are wiser than to bestow their fauours vpon wilfull aduersaries; but in spite of times, you are not more vnder vs in estate, than in conceit aboue vs: so wee say the Sunne is vnder a Cloud, wee know it is aboue it.
Hier. Marco. Presbyt. De cauernis cellularum damnamus orbē; in sacco & cinere volutati de Episcopis sententiam ferimus: Quid facit sub tunica poenitentis regius animus Cypr. l.
3. ep:
9. Haec sunt initia haereticorum, vt sibi placeant, vt praepositum superbo tumore contemnant. Harison
once theirs, in Psal.
12
[...]. of Browns
Antichristian pride and bitternes, Bredw.
pref. M. Brinsley
his pref. to the 2. part of the Watch.
Optat. Mil. de Donat. Collegae non eritiss si nolitis, fratres estis &c.
Disclaimed by themselues. Answer against Broughton, page.
21. Would God ouerlinesse and contempt were not yours, euen to them which are mounted highest vpon best desert; and now you that haue not learned sobriety in iust disaduantages, taxe vs, not to vse soberly the aduantages of time: there was no gall in my pen, no insultation, I wrote to you as brethren, and wisht you companions: there was more danger of flatterie in my stile, than bitternesse: wherein vsed I not my aduantages soberly? Not in that I said too much, but not enough; Not in that I was too sharpe, but not weighty enough; My opposition was not too vehement, but too slight and slender; So, strong Champions blame their aduersarie for striking too easily: you might haue forborne this fault, it was my fauour that I did not my worst: you are worthy of more weight, that complaine of ease. The discourse that I roll'd downe vpon you, was weake and weightlesse: you shall well finde, this was my lenitie, not my impotence. The fault hereof is partly in your expectation, not in my letter: I meant but a short Epistle, you look't belike for a volume, or nothing; I meant onely a generall monition; you look't for a solide prosecution of particulars: It is not for you to giue taskes to others pens. By what Law, must we write nothing but large Scholasticall Discourses? Such Tomes as yours: May wee not touch your sore, vnlesse wee will launce and search it? I was not enough your enemie; forgiue me this error, and you shall smart more: But not onely my omissions were of ignorance, but my censures, though seuere and solemne: An easie imputation from so great a controuler: I pardon you, and take this as the common lot of enemies. I neuer yet could see any Scribler
[Page 551] so vnlearned, as that he durst not charge his opposite with ignorance. If D
r
Whitaker,
Separat. schis. M. Gyfford
an ignorant Priest. Barr. p.
63. Confer. of D. Aud.
& M. Hutchins.
with Barrow. M
r
Perkins, M
r
Gyfford, and that Oracle of our present times, D
r
Andrewes, went away content with this liuery from yours; how can I repine? If I haue censured what cause I knew not, let me be censured for more than ignorance, impudencie: but if you know not what I censured (let all my trust lye on this issue) take both ignorance, boldnesse, and malice to your selfe: Is your cause so mysticall, that you can feare any mans ignorance? What Gobler or Spinster hath not heard of the maine holds of Brownisme? Am I onely a stranger in Hierusalem? If I know not all your opinions, pardon me: your owne haue not receiued this illumination; I speake boldly, not your selfe;
M. Spr. Considerat.
Iren. lib.
1. Per singul
[...]s
[...]
[...] vum aliquod ad fectant, &c. Euery day brings new conceits, and not one day teaches, but corrects another: you must be more constant to your selues, ere you can vpbraid ignorance or auoid it. But whether I knew your prime fancies, appeares sufficiently by a particular discourse; which aboue a yeere since was in the hands of some of your Clyents, and I wonder if not in yours: Shortly; am I ignorant? If I were obstinate too, you might hope (with the next gale) for me, your more equall aduersarie, at Amsterdam. As I am; my want of care and skill, shall (I hope) lose nothing of the truth by you, nor suffer any of your foule aspersions vpon the face of Gods Church and ours.
But whiles we striue; who shall be our Iudge? The Christian Readers: who are those? Presume not, yee more zealous and forward Countreymen, that you are admitted to this Bench: so farre are we meere English, from being allowed Iudges of them; that they haue already iudged vs to be no
Barr. confer. with
Hutchins. fol. 1.
Browne Estate of true Christians. Defence of true Christians against the D. D. of Oxford.
Iohns. against
Iacob. passim. Bar. against
Gyfford. Christians: We are Goates and Swine, no sheepe of God: since then none but your Parlour in the West, and Amsterdam, must bee our Iudges, who (I beseech you) shall be our Aduersaries? God be Iudge betwixt you and vs, and correct this your vnchristian vncharitablenesse.
SEP.
The crime here obiected is separation, a thing very odious in the eyes of all them from whom it is made: as euermore casting vpon them the imputation of euill, whereof all men are impatient: And hence it commeth to passe, that the Church of
England can better brooke the vilest persons continuing communion with it, than any whomsoeuer separating from it, though vpon neuer so iust and well grounded reasons.
SECTION III.
I Wrote not to you alone: what is become of your partner, yea, your Guide?
The pardon I written to, and their
[...]. To
M. Smith, and
M.
[...]. Ringe-leaders of the late separation at
Amsterdam. Charact of the Beast, written by
M. Smith.
Pref.
Be it knowne therefore to all the separation, that we account them, in respect of their constitution, to be as very an Harlot, as either her Mother the Church of England, or her Grandmother Rome is, &c.
Iterato baptiz
[...]us scienter, iterato Dominum cruci
[...]git. De consecr. dist. 4.
Quivis, &c. Woe is me, he hath renounced our Christendome with our Church: and hath washe off his former water, with new: and now condemnes you all, for not separating further, no lesse than wee condemne you for separating so farre. As if you could not bee enough out of Babylon, vnlesse you be out of your selues, Alas, miserable Countreymen, whither runne you? Religion hath but his height, beyond which is error and madnesse? hee tells you true, your station is vnsafe; either you must forward to him, or backe to vs.
The crime of the separation how great,
M. Perry in his Disc. of this subiect.I obiected separation to you: yet not so extreme as your answer bewrayes: a late separation; not the first; my charity hoped you lesse ill, than you will needs deserue: you grant it odious, because it casts imputation of euill vpon the forsaken: Of euill? Yea of the worst, an estate incurable & desperate. He is an il Physitian, that wil leaue his Patient vpon euery distēper: his departure argues the disease helples; were we but faulty, as your Land-Lord Churches, your own rules would not abide your flight:
Vid. IOHNSON
Preface to his Inquirie; Esay 5.20. Hence the Church of England iustly matches Separatists with the vilest persons. God himselfe doth so: who are more vile than Patrons of euill? yet no greater woe is to them that speake good of euill, than those that speake
[Page 552] euill of good: So wise Generals punish mutinous persons, worse than Robbers or Adulterers:
Num. 16.31.
Exod. 32.30. So
Corah and his company (a Story cunningly turned vpon vs by your Martyr) for their opposition to
Moses, were more fearefully plagued, than the Idolatrous Israelites. These sinnes are more directly against common society, the other more personall: and if both haue like iniquity; yet the former haue both more offence, and more danger: And if not so, yet who cannot rather brooke a lewd seruant, than an vndutifull sonne, though pretending faire colours for his disobedience? At least, you thinke the Church of England thinks her selfe Gods Church, as well as your Saints of Amsterdam: You that so accurse Apostasie in others, could yee expect, shee should brooke it in you?
Prov. 21.
[...].But your reasons are iust and well grounded: euery way of a man is right in his own eyes; Said we not well, that thou ar a Samaritane, and hast a Deuill, say the Iewes? What Schisme euer did not thinke well of it selfe? For vs: we call Heauen and earth to record, your cause hath no more Iustice than your selues haue charity.
SEP.
And yet separation from the World, and so from the men of the World, and so from the Prince of the World that reigneth in them, and so from whatsoeuer is contrary to God, is the first step to our communion with God and Angels, and good men; as the first step to a ladder is to leaue the earth.
SECTION IIII.
The kinds of the Separation, and which is iust.
[...].YET there is a commendable and happy separation from the World, from the Prince and men of the World, and whatsoeuer is contrary to God: who doubts it? There were no Heauen for vs without this, no Church; which hath her name giuen by her Father and Husband, of calling out from other. Out of the Aegypt of the World doth God call his sonnes: But this separation is into the visible Church from the World; not (as yours) out of the Church, because of some particular mixtures with the World: or (if you had rather take it of profession) out of the World of Pagans and Infidels, into the visible Church; not out of the World of true (though faulty) Christians, into a purer Church, That I may here at once for all giue light to this point of separation: we finde in Scripture a separation either to good, or from euill: To good;
Num. 8.1
[...].
Num. 16.9.
Deut.
[...].1
[...].
Exod. 1
[...].12.
Leuit. 15.
[...]1.
Deut. 1.41.
Rom. 1.1.
[...]. so the Leuites were separated from among the children of Israel to beare the Arke, and to minister: so the first borne, first fruits, and Cities of refuge: So
Paul was (
[...]) separated, which some would haue allude to his Pharisaisme, but hath plaine reference to Gods owne words (
Acts 13.2.) Separate mee
Barnabas and
Saul: Though this is rather a destination to some worthy purpose, than a properly called separation.
From euill, whether sinne or sinners: From sinne; so euery soule must eschew euill, whether of doctrine or manners, and disclaime all fellowship with the vnfruitfull works of darknesse,
1 Thess. vlt. ad fin. Ier.
15.19. Vide Tremel. & Ti
[...]. whether in himselfe or others. So S.
Paul charges vs to hold that which is good, and abstaine from all appearance of euill: so
Ieremie is charged to separate the precious (doctrine or practise) from the vile. From sinners, not onely practised by God himselfe (to omit his eternall and secret Decree,
Num.
16. Mat.
15. ad fin.
2 Chron.
19.2. 1. Cor.
6. ad fin. Nulla cum malis conviuia vel colloquia misceantur, simus
(que) abijs t
[...]m Separati, quam sunt illi ab ecclesia Dei profugi. Cypr. l.
1. epist. ad Corn.
2. whereby the Elect are separated from the Reprobate) both in his gracious vocation, sequestring them from nature and sinne, as also in his excecution of iudgement, whether particular, as of the Israelites from the Tabernacles of
Corah; or vniuersall, and finall, of the Sheepe from the Goats; But also inioyned from God to men, in respect either of our affection, or of our yoke, and familiar society, whereof Saint PAVL:
Bee not vnequally yoked with Infidels, Come out from among them, and separate your selues. In all this wee agree: In the latitude of this last onely wee differ: I finde you call for a double separation. A fast separation in the gathering of the Church: A second in the menaging of it: The first
[Page 553] at our entrance into the Church, the second in our continuance: The first of the Church, from Pagans and Worldlings, an initiatorie profession; The second of lewd men from the Church by iust censures; You speake confusedly of your owne separation; one while of both, another while of either single. For the first, either confesse it done by our Baptisme, or else you shall be forced to hold, we must rebaptize:
Charact. of Beast Praef. But of this Constitutiue separation anon: For the second of sinners, whether in iudgement, or life, some are more grosse, hainous, incorrigible: others lesse notorious, and more tractable: those other must be separated by iust censures; not these. Which censures if they be neglected, the Church is foule, and (in your Pastors word) faultie,
Iohns. Inquir. and therefore calls for our teares, not for our flight. Now of Churches faultie and corrupted, some raze the foundation, others on the true foundation build timber, hay, stubble: From those we must separate, from these we may not. PETERS rule is eternall,
Ioh. 6.68.
Whither shall wee goe from thee? thou hast the words of eternall life: where these words are found, woe be to vs, if we be not found. Amongst many good separations then, yours cannot be separated from euill, for that we should so farre separate from the euill, that therefore we should separate from Gods children in the communion of the holy things of God, that for some (after your worst done) not fundamentall corruptions,
H. Cl. Epistle before Treatise of Sinne against the Holy Ghost. we should separate from that Church, in whose wombe wee were conceiued, and from betwixt whose knees we fell to God: in a word, (as one of yours once said) to separate not onely from visible euill, but from visible good, as all Antichristian: who but yours can thinke lesse than absurd and impious? Grant, we should be cleane separated from the World; yet if we be not, must you be separated from vs? Doe but stay till God haue separated vs from himselfe:
Neque propter paleam relinquam aream Domini, neque propter pisces males rumpimus retia Domini. Aug. epist.
48, will the wise Husbandman cast away his Corne-heap for the chaffe and dust? Shall the Fisher cast away a good draught, because his Drag-Net hath Weeds? Doth God separate from the faithfull soule, because it hath some corruptions her Inmates, though not her commanders? Certainly, if you could thorowly separate the World from you, you would neuer thus separate your selues from vs: Begin at home, separate all selfe-loue, and selfe-will, and vncharitablenesse from your hearts, and you cannot but ioyne with that Church, from which you haue separated: Your Doctor would perswade vs, you separate from nothing but our corruptious:
Answ. Counterpoyson, p. 2. you are honester, and grant it from our Church: it were happy for you, if he lied not; who in the next page confutes himselfe, shewing that you separate from vs, as Christ from the Samaritans, namely from the Church, not the corruptions onely;
Counterpoyson, p. 7. & 8. &c. and not as he did from the Iewes, namely from their corruptions, not from their Church: His memorie saues our labour, and marres his discourse.
SEP.
The separation we haue made in respect of our knowledge, and obedience, is indeed late, and new: yet is it in the nature and causes thereof as ancient as the Gospell, which was first founded in the enmitie which God himselfe put betwixt the seed of the Woman, and the seede of the Serpent,
Genes. 3.15. which enmitie hath not onely beene successiuely continued, but also visibly manifested by the actuall separation of all true Churches, from the World in their collection and constitution, before the Law, vnder the Law, and vnder the Gospell,
Genes. 4.13, 14.16. &
6.1, 2. &
7.1.7. with
1 Pet. 3.20.12. &
12.2. Leuit. 20.24.26. Nehem. 9.2. Ioh. 17.14.16. Acts 2.40. &
19.9. 1 Cor. 6.17.
SECTION V.
YET, if not equitie, it were well you could plead age:
The antiquitie and examples of separation. This your separation in the nature and causes of it (you say) is no lesse ancient than the first institution of enmitie betwixt the two seedes: you might haue gone a little higher, and haue said, than our first Parents running from God in the Garden, or their separation from God by their sinne: But we take your time, and easily beleeue that this your late
[Page 554] separation was founded vpon that ancient enmitie of the seed of the serpent,
Euseb. Hist. Ecc. with the womans. That subtle Deuill, when he saw the Church breath from the persecutions of Tyrants, vexed her no lesse with her owne diuisions; seeking that by fraud, which by violence he could not effect. Hence all the fearefull Schismes of the Church, whereof yours is part. This enmitie hath not onely beene successiuely continued, but also too visibly manifested by the actuall (but wilfull) separation of Heretikes and Sectaries from the Church in all ages: But I mistake you; yours is as ancient as the Gospell: What?
Hen. Steph. Apol. Herod. Fox. Act. & Monu. H. N.
his booke Gal.
1.6. Eph.
6.17. Col.
1.5. 1 Tim.
1 11.
[...]. that
Euangelium aeteruum of the Friers? whose name they accursedly borrowed from
Reuel. 14.6. Or that
Euangelium Regni of the Familists? Or that
Euangelium aliud, whereof Saint PAVL taxeth his Galatians? None of all these, you say; but as that Gospell of Peace, of Truth, of Glory; so ancient, and neuer knowne till
Bolton, Barrow, and
Browne? Could it escape all the holy Prophets, Apostles, Doctors of the old, middle, and later world, and light onely vpon these your three Patriarchs? Perhaps,
Nonatus or
Donatus (those Saints with their Schooles) had some little glimpse of it; but this perfection of knowledge is but late and new: So many rich Mines haue lien long vnknowne, and great parts of the World haue beene discouered by late Venturers. If this course haue come late to your knowledge and obedience, not so to others: For loe, it was practised successiuely in the constitution and collection of all true Churches, through all times, before the Law, vnder the Law, after it: We haue acknowledged many separations: but as soone shall you finde the time past in the present, as your late separation,
Iren. de Valen. l.
1. Innumerabilem multitudinem Scripturarum quas ipsi finxerunt, afferunt ad stuporem insensatorum.
Vid.
Preface to M. Iacobs
and Iohnson,
Confer. and Barr. pass.
Description of the true visible Church.
Nihil autem miram si & ex ipsius instrumento aptentur argumenta, cum oporteat hereses esse, quae esse non possunt, si non & perperam Scripturae intelligi possunt. Tertull. de Resurrect. Ibid.
So Barrow
tearmes Mast. Gyffords
Refut. pag.
102.
Si Christianus Iudaicae praeuaricanti carnaliter coniungatur, à commu
[...]ne Ecclesiae segregetur. Dist.
28. q.
1. Ca
[...] & cap. siquis Iudaicae, &c.
1 Pet.
3.19. 2 Pet.
2.5. in the ancient and approued. You quote Scriptures, though (to your praise) more daintie indeed than your fellowes. Who cannot doe so? Who hath not? Euen Satan himselfe cites the word against him which was the word of his Father. Let vs not number, but weigh your texts: The rather, for that I finde these as your Master-proofes, set as Challengers in euery of your defences: In
Genes. 4.13. CAIN a bloudy Fratricide is excommunicated: In
Genes. 6.1, 2. The sonnes of God married the daughters of men: In
Genes. 7.1. & 7. NOAHS time is approued as righteous, and enters the Arke: In 1
Pet. 3.20, 21. The rest in NOAHS time were disobedient, and perished: What of all this? Alas, what mockage is this of the Reader, and Scriptures? Surely, you euen ioyne Scriptures, as you separate your selues: This is right as your Pastor, to proue all members of the visible Church, elect and precious stones, cites, 1
King. 7.9. where is speech onely of
Salomons house in the Forrest of Lebanon, his Porch for his Throne, his Hall, his Palace for
Pharaohs daughter, and when he comes to describe the office of his imaginarie Doctor, thwacks fourteene Scriptures into the margent, whereof not any one hath any iust colour of inference to his purpose: and in this discourse of the power of the Church (that he might seeme to honour his margent with shew of texts) hath repeated six places twice ouer in the space of six lines. For these of yours: you might obiect the first to the Cainites, not to vs:
Cain was cast out worthily. Doe we either denie, or vtterly forbeare this censure? Take heed you follow him not, in your voluntarie exile, to the land of Nod. The second you might obiect to those mungrell Christians that match with Turkes and Pagans. There are sonnes of God, that is, members of the visible Church; and daughters of men, which are without the bounds, meere Infidels; it is sinne for those sonnes to yoke themselues with those daughters. What is this to vs?
Noah was righteous, the multitude disobedient: Who denies it? yet
Noah separated not from the corrupted Church, till the floud separated him from the earth, but continued an ancient Preacher of righteousnesse, euen to that peruerse and rebellious Generation. But it sufficeth you, that
Cain and the Giants were separated from the rest: We yeeld it: what will follow hence, saue onely that notorious Malefactors must bee cast out, and professed Heathen not let into the Church? We hold, and wish no lesse: your places euince no more. These, before the Law: In
Leuit. 20.24.26. God chose our Israel from other people: This was Gods act, not theirs: a sequestring of his Israelites from the Gentiles, not of Israel from it selfe: yours is your owne, and from men, in all maine points, of your owne profession: But therefore Israel must be holy: If any man denie holinesse to be required of euery Christian, let him feele your
Maranatha. In
Nehem. 9.2.
[Page 555] The Israelites separated themselues from the strangers, which were Infidels: whether in their marriage, or deuotion: Neither Gods seruice, nor an Israelites bed was for Heathens. This was not the constituting of a new Church, but reforming of the old: If therefore you can parallel vs with Pagans, and your selues will be Iewes, this place fits you. Lastly, what if there be an hatred betwixt the World and Christs true Disciples,
Ioh. 17.14.16? what if PETER charged his Auditors to saue themselues from the errors and practise of that froward Generation, whose hands were yet freshly imbrewed with the bloud of Christ,
Act. 2.40? What if the same which PETER taught, PAVL practised, in separating his followers from hearing some obstinate and blasphemous Iewes,
Act. 19.9? What if the Church of Corinth were Saints by calling, 1
Cor. 1.2? and therefore must be separated from the yoke of Infidels, 2.6.17? Are these your patternes? Are these fit matches for your brethren, baptized in the same water and name, professing euery point of the same true faith, vsing (for substance) the same worship with you?
He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darknesse, 1
Ioh. 2.9.
SEP.
Which separation the Church of
England neither hath made, nor doth make, but stands actually one with all that part of the World within the Kingdome, without separation: for which cause, amongst others, we haue chosen by the grace of God, rather to separate our selues to the Lord from it, than with it from him, in the visible constitution of it.
SECTION VI.
BVT all these examples, perhaps are not so much to warrant what you haue done,
What separation is to bee made by churches in their planting or restauration. In his Preface to the Reader, and in his causes of separation defended,
pag. 4.
Eiusdem p. 10. Refutat. of M.
Gyff. p. 22.
& 2.
Transgress. p. 51. 52.
& 55. 66.
& 70. 85.
& 86.
&c.
Inconstance of
Browne, p. 110. Inquiry into M
White, confessed by
Fr. Iohnson pag. 63. Passage twixt
Clifton and
Smith: And concerning the constitution of the Churches, &c. But the constituting of Churches now after the defection of Antichrist, may more properly be called a repairing than a constitution, &c. as to condemne the Church of England for what shee hath not done: for such a separation shee neither hath made nor doth make, but stands actually one with all that part of the World within the Kingdome without separation. Loe, here the maine ground of this Schisme, which your
Proto-Martyr BARROVV hammers vpon in euery page; an ill constitution: Thus hee comments vpon your words: For where such prophane confuse multitudes, without any exception, separation or choice, were all of them from publike Idolatry, at one instant receiued or rather compelled to bee members of the Church, in some Parish or other, where they inhabited, without any due calling to the faith, by the preaching of the Gospel going before, or orderly ioyning together in the faith, there being no voluntarie or particular confession of their owne faith and duties made or required of any, and lastly, no holy walking in the faith amongst them; who can say that these Churches consisting of this people, were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rule of Christs Testament? In his words and yours I finde both a miscollection, and a wrong charge. For the former: the want of noting one poore distinction, breeds all this confusion of Doctrine, and separation of men: for there is one case of a new Church to be called from Heathenisme to Christianitie, another of a former Church to be reformed from errors, to more sincere Christianitie. In the first of these is required indeed a solemne initiation by Baptisme; and before that, a voluntarie and particular confession of faith, and therefore a cleare separation, and exception of the Christian, from the Infidell: In the latter, neither is new Baptisme lawfull (though some of you belike of old were in hand with a rebaptization: which not then speeding, succeedeth now to your shame) nor a new voluntarie and particular confession of Faith, besides that in Baptisme (though very commendable) will euer be proued simply necessarie to the being of a Church; so long as the erring parties doe actually renounce their doctrines, and in open profession imbrace the truth; and (as generaly in the publike confession) so particularly vpon good occasion giue iust testimonies of their repentance: This is our case, wee did not make a new Church, but mended an old: your CLIFTON is driuen to this hold by necessitie of Argument; Otherwise he sees there is no auoiding of Anabaptisme: Mended, saith
[Page 556] your Doctor, and yet admitted the misceline rabble of the prophane? Say now, that such separation were not made: Let some few be holy, and the more part prophane: Shall the lewdnesse of some disanull Gods Couenant with others? This is your mercy; Gods is more: who still held Israel for his, when but few held his pure seruice: Let that Diuine Psalmist teach you how full the Tents of Israel were of mutinous Rebels in the Desart; yet the Pillar by day and night forsooke them not; and
Moses was so farre from reiecting them, that he would not endure God should reiect them to his owne aduantage: Looke into the blacke censures, and bitter complaints of all the Prophets, and wonder that they separated not: Looke into the increased masse of corruptions, in that declined Church; whereof the blessed eyes of our Sauiour were witnesses, and maruell at his silent and sociable incuriousnesse: yea, his charge of not separating; Yee know not of what spirit you are:
Mat. 23. Now you flie to constitution, as if notorious euils were more tolerable in continuance, than in the collection of Assemblies:
Sardi had but a few names that had not defiled their garments;
Reuel. 3.4. God praises these, bids them not separate from the rest.
Thyatira suffers a false prophetesse: the rest that haue not this learning,
Reuel. 2.24. yet are bidden but to hold their owne; not to separate from the Angell, which hath not separated IEzABEL from the Church.
SECTION VII.
What separation the Church of
England hath made.
Bar. p. 22.
& 55.
Fr. Iohns. against
M. H.
Act. & Mon. poss
[...].YOVR charge is no lesse iniurious; that the Church of England hath made no separation: Concerning which you haue learned of your Martyr, and ouer-seers so to speake, as if before her late disclamation of poperie, in Queene ELIzABETHS time, she had not beene. Her monuments could haue taught you better, and haue lead you to her ancient Pedigree not much below the Apostolike dayes, and in many descents haue shewed you not a few worthy witnesses and patrons of Truth; all which, with their holy and constant off-spring, it might haue pleased you to haue separated from this imputation of not separating: Will you know therefore how the Church of England hath separated? In her first conuersion shee separated her selfe from Pagans: in her continuance shee separated her selfe from grosse heretiques, and sealed her separation with bloud: in her reformation shee separated her selfe from wilfull Papists, by her publike profession of Truth, and proclaimed hatred of error; and shee daily doth separate the notoriously euill, by suspensions, by excommunications, though not so many as yours;
Troubl. & excom. p. 191.
M Spr. p 1. Besides the particular separations of many from the acknowledged corruptions, in iudgement, profession, practise. All these will bee auowed in spight of all contradiction: with what forhead then can you say; The whole Church of England hath not at all separated?
After all your shifts and idle tales of constitution, you haue separated from this Church against the Lord; not with the Lord, from it: If there bee Christ with vs, if the Spirit of God in vs,
F: Iun. lib. de Eccles. if Assemblies, if calling by the word: whatsoeuer is, or is not else in the Constitution, there is whatsoeuer is required to the essence of a Church. No corruption either in gathering or continuance can destroy the truth of being, but the grace of being well: If Christ haue taken away his word and spirit, you haue iustly subduced; else you haue gone from him in vs.
And when you haue all done, the Separatists Idol, visible Constitution, will proue but an appendance of an externall forme, no part of the essence of a true Church: and therefore your separation no lesse vaine than the ground, than the Authors. Lastly, if our bountie should (which it cannot) grant, that our collection was at first deeply faultie:
Ratibabitio retrahi, &c.
Subsequens consensus Iacobi in Leam fecit eos coniuges, d.
29. q.
1. S. sed obijcitur. Barrow
against Gyff. cannot the
Ratibabition (as the Lawyers speake) be drawne backe? may not an after-allowance rectifie and confirme it? In contracts (your owne similitude) a following consent iustifies an act done before consent: and why not in the contract betwixt God, and his visible Church? Lo, he hath confirmed it by his gratious benedictions, and as much as may be in silence giuen vs abundant proofes of his acceptation: That after-act, which makes your Baptisme lawfull, why can it not make our Church?
SECT. VIII.
BVT for as much as Constitution is the very state of Brownisme,
Constitution of a Church. Let vs (I beseech you) inquire a little into the complexion of your Constitution: Whether Physicke, or Law, or Architecture haue lent you it: sure I am, it is in this vse, Apocryphall: Neuer man vsed it this scrupulously till your times: Though, what need you the helpe of Fathers or Schooles? new words must expresse new
Paradoxes. It is no treason to come termes: What then is Constitution? Your Doctor can best tell vs: As the Constitution of a Common-wealth, or of a City,
H. Answorth. Counterp. p. 170. is a gathering or vniting of a people together into a ciuill Politie: So (saith he) the Constitution of the Common-wealth of Israel, and of the City of God, the new Ierusalem, is a gathering and vniting of people into a diuine Politie. The forme of which Polity, is Order: which Order is requisite in all actions, and Administrations of the Church, as the Apostle sheweth, and specially in the Constitution thereof: So that next vnto faith in God, it is to be esteemed most necessary for all holy societies.
Coloss. 2.5. Hence
Paul reioyced in the
Colossians Order and Faith: To this Constitution therefore, belong a people, as the matter; secondly, a calling, or gathering together, as the forme, whereof the Church consisteth. The Constitution of the Church of England is false in both: Why so? Haue we not a people? Are not those people called together? To preuent this, you say our Constitution is false, not none: Why false? Because those people haue neither Faith, nor Order. For Faith first: Who are you that dare thus boldly breake into the closets of God,
Tertull. de Praescript.
Tu vt homo extrinsecus vnumquem
(que) nosti, putas quod vides, vides autem quous
(que) oculos habes, sed oculi Domini sunt alti, Homo in faciem, Deus in praecordia contemplatur.
Principles and inferences concerning the visible Church. Anno
1607. p. 13. the hearts of men? and condemne them to want that, which cannot bee seene by any but diuine eyes? how dare you intrude thus into the throne of your Maker? Consider, and conferre seriously: What faith is it, that is thus necessarily required to each member in this Constitution? Your owne Doctor shall define it: Faith required to the receiuing in of members, is the knowledge of the Doctrine of saluation by Christ, 1
Cor. 12.9.
Gal. 3.2. Now I beseech you in the feare of God, lay by a while all vnchristian preiudice, and peremptory verdicts of those soules, which cost Christ as much bloud as your owne: and tell me ingenuously, whether you dare say, that not onely your Christian brethren with whom you lately conuersed, but euen your fore-fathers which liued vnder Queene
Elizabeths first confused reformation, knew not the doctrine of saluation by Christ: if you say they did not, your rash iudgement shall be punished fearefully, by him whose office you vsurpe. As you looke to answer before him that would not breake the bruised Reed, nor quench the smoaking Flax; presume not thus, aboue men and Angels. If they did, then had they sufficient claime both to true Constitution and Church: But this faith must be testified by obedience; so it was. If you thinke not so, yours is not testified by loue: both were weake, both were true: Weaknesse in any grace or worke, takes not away truth: Their sinnes of ignorance could no more disanull Gods couenant with them, than multiplicity of wiues with the Patriarchs.
SECT. IX.
Order, 2. Part of Constitution, how farre requisite, and whether hindered by constraint.
D. Allis. against the Descript. Confess. of the
Brownists.
Brow. State of true Christians.
Inquire into
M. White. Ans. ibid. Arist. Pol. 3.
c. 1.
WHat wanted they then? Nothing but Order; and not all Order, but yours: Order, a thing requisite and excellent; but let the world iudge whether essentiall. Consider now, I beseech you in the bowels of Christ Iesus, whether this be a matter for which heauen and earth should be mixed: whether for want of your Order, all the world must be put out of all Order, and the Church out of life and being: Nothing (say we) can be more disorderly, than the confusion of your Democracie, or popular state (if not Anarchie): Where all (in a sort) ordaine and excommunicate; We condemne you not for no true members of the Church: what can be more orderlesse (by your owne confessions) than the
Trine-vne Church at
Amsterdam? which yet you grant but faulty. If there be disproportion and dislocation of some parts, is it no true humane body? will you rise from the feast, vnlesse the dishes be set on in your owne fashion?
[Page 558] Is it no Citie, if there bee mudwalles halfe broken, low Cottages vnequally built, no State-house? But your order hath more essence than you can expresse; and is the same which Polititians in their trade call (
[...]) an incorporating into one common ciuill body, by a voluntary vnion, and that vnder a lawfull gouernment: Our Church wants both: wherein there is both constraint, and false office. Take your owne resemblance and your owne asking: Say that some Tyrant (as
Basilius of Ruff
[...]) shall forcibly compell a certaine number of Subiects into Mosco, and shall hold them in by an awfull Garrison, forcing them to new lawes and Magistrates, perhaps hard and bloudy: They yeeld; and making the best of all, liue together in a cheerefull communion, with due commerce, louing conuersation, submissiue execution of the enioyned lawes: In such case, Whether is Mosco a true Cittie, or not? Since your Doctor cites
Aristotle,
Arist. Pol.
3 c.
1. Edesius & Frumentius pueri à Meropio Tyrio Philosopho in Indiam d
[...]portati, postca ibi Christianam religionem plantarunt, Ruff
[...]n. l.
1. c.
9. Foemina inter Iber
[...]s. let it not irke him to learne of that Philosopher, who can teach him, that when
Calisthenes had driuen out the Tyrant from Athens, and set vp a new Gouernment, and receiued many strangers, and bondmen into the Tribes, it was doubted, not which of them were Citizens, but whether they were made Citizens vniustly. If you should finde a company of true Christians in vtmost
India, would you stand vpon termes, and enquire how they became so? Whiles they haue what is necessary for that heauenly profession; what need your curiosity trouble it selfe with the meanes?
SECT. X.
Constraint requisite.
2 Chr.
33.16. 2 Chr.
34.32, 33. 2 Chr.
15.13. Barr.
against Gyff. Brow.
Reformation without tarrying. Greenewood,
Conference with Cooper, Browne,
Reformation without tarrying Conference with Doctor Andr.
Master Hutch.
Conference with D. Andr.
Reformation without tarrying Ber. Fides suadenda non cogenda.
Counterpoyson. Dixit Pater familias seruis, Quoscun
(que) inueneritis, cogite intrare, &c. Aug. Epist.
48. Pless. de Eccles. c.
10. Aug. Quod si
[...]ogip. riegem aliquem vel ad bona sicuisset, vos ipsi miseri à nobis ad fidem purissimam cogi deluistis: sed absit à nostra conscientia, vt ad fidem nostram aliquem cogamus. Aug. Epist.
48. &
68. Qui phreneticum ligat, & qui letharg. excitat, ambobus molestus, ambos amat, Ibid. Cl
[...]mant, Neminem ad vnitatem cogendum; quid hoc aliud, quam quod de vobis quidam. Quod volumus sanctum est.YOu see then what an idle plea constraint is in the constitution of a Citie, the ground of all your exception: But it is otherwise in Gods citie, the Church; why then doth his Doctorship parallel these two? And why may not euen constraint it selfe haue place in the lawfull constitution or reformation of a Church? Did not
Manasses after his comming home to God, charge and command
Iuda to serue the Lord God of Israel? Did not worthy
Iosiah, when he had made a couenant before the Lord, cause all that were found in Ierusalem, and
Beniamin, to stand to it, and compelled all that were found in Israel, to serue the Lord their God? What haue Queene
Elizabeth, or King
Iames done more? Or what other? Did not
Asa vpon
Obeds prophesie, gather both
Iuda and
Beniamin, and all the strangers from
Ephraim, Manasses, and
Simeon, and enact with them, that whosoeuer would not seeke the Lord God, should bee slaine? What meanes this peruersenesse? You that teach we may not stay Princes leisure to reforme, will you not allow Princes to vrge others to reforme? What crime is this, that men were not suffered to bee open Idolaters, that they were forced to yeeld submission to Gods ordinances? Euen your owne teach, that Magistrates may compell Infidels to heare the doctrine of the Church; and Papists, you say elsewhere (though too roughly) are Infidels: But you say, not to be members of the Church: Gods people are of the willing sort: True, Neither did they compell them to this: They were before entred into the visible Church by true Baptisme, though miserably corrupted: They were not now initiated, but purged: Your subtill Doctor can tell vs from
Bernard, that faith is to be perswaded, not to bee compelled: yet let him remember that the guests must be compelled to come in, though not to eat when they are come. Compelled, not by perswasions; for these were the first inuitations; therefore by further meanes; Though this conceit hath no place with vs, where men are vrged not to receiue a new faith, but to performe the old; to abandon that wicked Idolatry which had defiled them, and to entertaine but that truth, which the very power of their Baptisme challenged at their hand: But this was the old song of the Donatists; Farre bee it from our conscience, to compell any man to the faith. If God did not draw vs, and by a sweet violence bend our wils to his, when should wee follow him? Either you haue not read, or not cared for the practise of the ancient Church, and
Augustines resolution concerning the sharp penalties imposed vpon the Donatists (would God none of your kindred) in his time; with his excellent defences of these proceedings.
SECT. XI.
BVT tell vs then, what should haue beene done? The Gospell should haue beene euery where preached; All conuerts should haue beene singled out,
Constitution of the Church of
England. Barrow and
Greenew. passim. and haue giuen a voluntary and particular confession of their Faith, and Repentance. I answer you: The Gospell was long and worthily preached in the daies of King
Edward; enough to yeeld both Martyrs to the stake, and Professors to the succeeding times. Were their holy Sermons, their learned writings, and their precious bloud (which was no lesse vocall) of no force? Afterwards, in the beginning of Famous Queene
Elizabeths reparation, what confluence was there of zealous Confessors returning now from their late exile? How painfully and diuinely did they labour in this Vineyard of God? How did they (with their many holy Partners, which had shrowded themselues during that storme of persecution, in a dangerous secrecie) spread themselues ouer this Land, and each-where drew stockes of hearers to them, and with them? Is all this nothing to their ingratefull Posteritie? If you murmure that there were no more, take heed lest you forget there were so many: for vs, we doe seriously blesse God for these, and triumph in them.
All this premised; now comes a Christian Edict from the State, that euery man shall yeeld obedience to this Truth, wherein they had beene thus instructed: It was performed by the most; whose submission, what was it but an actuall profession of their faith, and repentance? And since such was their face, who dares iudge of their hearts? More than this, if euer can be shewed absolutely necessary in such a State of the Church to the very constitution, and repaired being thereof, I doe here vow neuer to take the Church of
England for my Mother.
Wee know, and grieue to see how scornfully your whole Sect,
H. Answ. Coū terp. and amongst the rest your resolute Doctor turnes ouer these gracious entrances & proceedings of these two Royall and blessed Reformers; and whom should hee finde to raise his scoffes vpon, but that Saint-like Historian M.
Fox?
Act. & Monu. Edit.
5. p.
1180. Now (saies Master
Fox) a new face of things began to appeare, as it were in a Stage, new Players comming in, the old thrust out: Now (saith your Doctors Comment) new Bishops came in,
Counterp. 226. as Players vpon the old stage of the Popish Church, as if the Church were no whit altered, but the men: Shall we say, this is too much malice, or too little wit, and conscience? Euen in the Lord Protectors daies, that holy man reports, that after the Scriptures restored, and Masses abolished, greater things followed these softer beginnings, in the reformation of the Churches:
P. Martyr P. Fagius. Bucer, &c. Learned and godly Diuines were called for from forraine parts, a separation was made (though not so much willing, as wilfull) of open and manifest Aduersaries from Professors, whether true or dissembled: Commissioners were appointed to visit euery seuerall Diocesse. Euery Bench of them had seuerall godly and learned Preachers to instruct the people in the truth, and to disswade them from Idolatry and Superstition. The Popes Supremacy not thrust, but taught downe: All wil-worship whatsoeuer, oppugned by publike Sermons: Images destroyed, Pilgrimages forbidden, the Sacraments inioyned to be reuerently and holily ministred, Ecclesiasticall persons reformed in life, in Doctrine: Processions laid downe, Presence and attendance vpon Gods word commanded, the holy expending of Sabbath daies appointed, due preparation to Gods table called for, set times of teaching inioyned to Bishops and other Ministers, all Shrines and Monuments of Idolatry required to bee vtterly taken from publike and priuate houses: All this, before his Parliament: By that,
Six Articles. 1547.
Pag. 1182.
Col. 2.60. all bloody lawes against Gods truth were repealed, zealous Preachers encouraged, so as (saith that worthy Historian) God was much glorified, and the people in many places greatly edified. What need I goe further than this first yeere? Heare this and be ashamed, and assure your selues, that no man can euer reade those holy Monuments of the Church, but must needs spet at your separation. After that sweet and hopefull Prince, what his Renowned Sister Queene ELIzABETH did, the present times doe speake, and the future shall speake, when all
[Page 560] these Murmurers shall sleepe in the dust. The publike Disputations, zealous preachings, restaurations of banished Religion and men, Extirpations of Idolatry, Christian Lawes, wise and holy proceedings, and renewed couenants with God, are still fresh in the memories of some, and in the eares of all; so as all the World will iustly say, you haue lost shame with Truth, in denying it: Yea, to fetch the matter yet further, If the Reader shall looke backe to the dayes of their puissant Father King HENRY the Eighth,
Act & Monu. p.
999. &
1000. he cannot but acknowledge (especially during the time of Queene ANNE, and before those six bloudie Articles) a true face of a Church (though ouer-spred with some Morphue of corruptions) and some commendable forwardnesse of Reformation: for both the Popes Supremacie was abrogated, the true Doctrine of Iustification commonly taught, confidence in Saints vntaught, the vanity of Pardons declared, worship of Images and Pilgrimages forbidden, learned and godly Ministers required, their absences & mis-demeanors inhibited, the Scriptures translated, publikely and priuately inioyned to be read and receiued, the Word of God commanded to be sincerely and carefully preached:
Act. & Monu. Edit.
5. p.
1002. and to all this, Holy Master
Fox addeth for my conclusion, such a vigilant care was then in the King and his Councell, how by all wayes and meanes to redresse Religion, to reforme errours, to correct corrupt customes, to helpe ignorance, and to reduce the mis-leading of Christs Flocke, drowned in blind Poperie, Superstitious Customes, and Idolatry, to some better forme of Reformation, whereunto he prouided not onely these Articles,
Barr. against
Gyff.
Conference with
Sperin. and Master
Egerton. Greenw. &
Barr. Arg. to Master
Cartwr. Master
Trauers, Master
Clark. Browne. Reformation without tarrying. Precepts, Iniunctions aboue specified, to informe the rude people, but also procured the Bishops to helpe forward the same cause of decayed Doctrine, with their diligent preaching, and teaching of the people. Goe now and say, that suddenly in one day, by Queene
Elizabeths Trumpet, or by the sound of a Bell, in the name of Antichrist, all were called to the Church: Goe, say with your Patriarch, that we erect Religions by Proclamations, and Parliaments.
Vpon these premises I dare conclude, and doubt not to maintaine against all Separatists in the World, that
England (to goe no higher) had in the dayes of King
Henry the Eighth, a true visible Church of God: and so by consequent their succeeding seed was by true Baptisme iustly admitted into the bosome thereof; and therefore that euen of them, without any further profession, Gods Church was truly constituted. If you shall say, that the following idolatry of some of them in Queene
Maries daies excluded them: Consider, how hard it wil be to proue, that Gods couenant with any people, is presently disanulled by the sinnes of the most, whether of ignorance, or weaknesse; and if they had herein renounced God, yet that God also mutually renounced them. To shut vp your Constitution then:
Master
Smith against
R. Clifton.
Principl. and Infer. pag. 11. There is no remedie: Either you must goe forward to Anabaptisme, or come backe to vs. All your Rabbines cannot answer that charge of your rebaptized brother: If we be a true Church, you must returne; if wee be not (as a false Church is no Church of God) you must rebaptize: If our Baptisme bee good, then is our constitution good. Thus your owne Principles teach. The outward part of a true visible Church is a Vow, Promise, Oath, or Couenant betwixt God and the Saints: Now I aske, Is this made by vs in Baptisme, or no? If it be, then we haue, by your confession (for so much as is outwardly required) a true visible Church: so your separation is vniust: If it be not, then you must rebaptize; for the first Baptisme is a nullitie: and (if ours be not) you were neuer thereby as yet entred into any visible Church.
SEP.
To the title of a Ring-leader, wherewith it pleaseth this Pistler to stile me, I answer, that if the thing I haue done bee good, it is good and commendable to haue beene forward in it; if it bee euill, let it be reproued by the light of Gods Word, and that God, to whom I haue done that I haue done, will (I doubt not) giue me both to see, and to heale mine errour by speedie Repentance: if I haue fled away on foot, I shall returne on Horse-backe: But as I durst neuer set foot into this way, but vpon a most sound and vnresistable conuiction of Conscience by the Word of God: (as I was perswaded) so must my retiring bee wrought by more solid reasons from the same
[Page 561] word, than are to be found in a thousand such prettie Pamphlets, and formall flourishes as this is.
SECTION XII.
AS For the title of Ring-leader, wherewith I stiled this Pamphleter;
The answerers title. if I haue giuen him too much honor in his Sect, I am sorry: Perhaps I should haue put him (pardon an homely, but in this sense, not vnusuall word) in the taile of this Traine: Perhaps, I should haue endorsed my Letter to Master
Smith, and his shadow; So I perceiue he was: Whatsoeuer, whether he leade or follow, God meets with him. If he leade:
Behold,
Ier. 13.32.
I will come against them that prophesie false dreames (saith the Lord)
and doe tell them, and cense my people to erre by their lyes. If he come hehinde;
Thou shalt not follow a multitude in euill (saith God.) If either, or both, or neither, If hee will goe alone;
Woe vnto the foolish Prophets (saith the Lord)
which follow their owne Spirits,
Ezech. 13.2.
and haue seene nothing. Howsoeuer, your euill shall be reproued by the light of Gods word: Your coniunction I cannot promise, your reproofe I dare; If thereupon you finde grace to see and heale your errours, we should with all brotherly humblenesse attend on foot vpon your returne on Horse-backe; but if the sway of your mis-resolued conscience be headie and vnresistable, and your retiring hopelesse; these not solide reasons, these prettie Pamphlets, these formall flourishes shall one day be fearefull and material euidences against you before that awefull Iudge, which hath alreadie said,
Pro. 19.21. That iudgements are prepared for the Scorners, and stripes for the backe of Fooles.
SEP.
Your pittying of vs and sorrowing for vs, especially for the wrong done by vs, were in you commendable affections, if by vs iustly occasioned; but if your Church be deeply drencht in Apostasie, and you cry, Peace, Peace, when suddaine and certaine desolation is at hand, it is you that doe wrong, though you make the complaint: and so being cruell towards your selues, and your own, whom you flatter, you cannot be truly pittifull towards others whom you bewaile. But I will not discourage you in this affection, lest we finde few in the same fault: the most in stead of pittie and compassion, affording vs nothing but furie and indignation.
SECTION XIII.
I PROFESSED to bestow pittie and sorrow vpon you and your wrong:
The Apostasie of the Church of
England. You entertaine both harshly, and with a churlish repulse: What should a man doe with such dispositions? Let him stroke them on the backe, they snarle at him, and shew their teeth▪ Let him shew them a Cudgell, they flie in his face: You allow not our actions, and returne our wrong; Ours is both the iniurie and complaint: How can this bee? You are the Agents, we sit still, and suffer in this rent: Yet (since the cause makes the Schisme) let vs inquire, not whose the action is, but whose the desert: Our Church is deepe drencht in Apostasie; and we cry Peace, Peace: No lesse than a whole Church at once, and that not sprinkled, or wetshod, but drencht in apostasie; What, did wee fall off from you, or you from vs? Tell me, were we euer the true Church of God? and were we then yours? We cannot fall, vnlesse we once stood: Was your Church before this Apostasie? Shew vs your Ancestors in opinion: Name me but one that euer taught as you doe, and I vow to separate: Was it not? Then we fell not from you: Euery Apostasie of the Church must needs be from the true Church. A true Church, and not yours? And yet can there be but one true; See now whether in branding vs with Apostasie, you haue not proued yours to be no true Church: Still I am ignorant:
A Treatise of the Ministery of
England, against M.
H. pag. 125. Queene
Maries dayes (you say) had a true Church, which separated from Poperie, chose them Ministers, serued God holily, from thence was our Apostasie: But, were not the same also (for the most part) Christians in King
Edwards dayes? Did they then, in that confused allowance of the Gospell, separate? Or (I pray you) were
Cranmer, Latimer, Ridley,
[Page 562] Hooper, and the rest, parts of that Church, or no? Was there any other ordination of Ministers than from them? Reiect these, and all the world will hisse at you; Receiue them, and where is our Apostasie? What Antichristianisme haue we, wherof these were freed? But you leape backe (if I vrge you farre) from hence to the Apostles times, to fetch our once true Church from farre, that it might be deare: You shall not carue for vs: we like not these bold ouerleapes of so many Centuries: I speake boldly, you dare not stand to the triall of any Church, since theirs: Now, I heare your Doctor say, this Challenge fauours of
Rome:
H. Answorth in his fore-speech to his Count. Inqu. into
Wh. Tertul. l. de Ora. Tertul. lib. de Praescript. So. de Virginib. Veland. That no continuance of time can preiudice Truth.
Si me reprehendas errantem, patere me quaeso errare cum talibus. Aug. Hier. Fr. Iohnson in his Answ. to
T. Wh. pag. 26. Ans. against
Brough. p. 17. These
Dutch churches offend not only in practicall disorders, but in their Constitution, Gouernment, Worship, &c. Troubl. and Excom. at
Amsterdam. p. 10.
Browne charged with it by
Barr. Letter to Master
Egerton G. Iohnson ibid. pag. 194.
Fr. Iohns. Inqui.
Act. 15.38.
Departing, that is, not going with them.
Barr. pref. to the Separation defend.
In his Obseruations. p. 251. We doe not there condemne the Parish-Assemblies as separated from
Christ, but proue them not as yet gathered to Christ.
So Confe. with
Sperin. p. 9.
Fr. Iohnsons Inquiry,
pag. 36.
H. Barr. Obseruation 242. Antiquitie is with you, a Popish plea: we haue willingly taken vp our Aduersaries, at this (by pretence, their owne) weapon: You debarre it in the conscience of your own nouell singularitie: Yet your Pastor can be content to make vse of
Tertullian alone against all Fathers; That such things are iustly to be charged with vanitie, as are done without any precept, either of the Lord, or of the Apostles: And the Apostles did faithfully deliuer to the Nations the Discipline they receiued of Christ, which we must beleeue to be the tumultuary Discipline of the refined housefull at
Amsterdam: What? all in all Ages, and places till now Apostates? Say if you can, that those famous Churches, wherein
Cyprian, Athanasius, Ambrose, Hierome, Austen, Chrysostome, and the rest of those blessed Lights liued, were lesse deepe in this Apostasie than ours? O Apostaticall Fathers, that separated not! yea, say if you dare, that other reformed Churches are not ouer the Ankles with vs in this Apostasie: What hard news is this to vs, when as your Oracle dare say not much lesse, of the reformed Churches of
Netherlands, with whom you liue? Thus he writes: For not hearing of them in other Congregations in these Countries; this I answer, That seeing by the mercy of God, wee haue seene and forsaken the corruptions, yet remaining in the publike Ministration, and condition of these Churches (if they bee all like to these of this Cittie) we cannot therefore partake with them, in such case, without declining, and Apostasie from the truth, which we haue our selues alreadie receiued and professed. See here, to partake with them in Gods seruice is Apostasie; If so in the accessories, Alas, what crime is in the principall? It were but Apostasie to heare an
English sermon; a
Dutch is no lesse: Wo is you that you dwell still in
Meshech: Good men; it were not more happie for you than the Church, that you were well in Heauen. No lesse than Apostasie? Let no Reader be appalled at so fearefull a word; this is one of the termes of Art, familiar to this way: Finde but any one page of a
Dutch printed Volume without Apostasie, Excommunication, Commingling, Constitution, and suspect it not theirs: Heresie is not more frequent at
Rome, than Apostasie at
Amsterdam; nor Indulgences more ordinary there, than here Excommunications. Common vse makes terrible things easie: Their owne Master St. for holding with the
Dutch Baptisme, and Read-prayers, is acknowledged to be cast out for an Apostate: yea, their Doctor Master
Answorth is noted with this marke from themselues: There is much latitude (as happie is) in their Apostasie: For when
Stanshal, Mercer and
Iacob Iohnson were to be chosen Officers in their Church, and exception was taken by some at their Apostasie, answer was made, It was not such Apostasie as debarred them from Office, it was but a slip.
Iohn Marke (whether, as
Isichius and
Theophylact thinke, the blessed Euangelist, or some other holy Minister) is by the whole Parlour at
Amsterdam, branded with this lame Apostasie; who departed indeed, but from
Paul in his iourney, not from
Christ in his faith, and therefore his (
[...]) is expounded by (
[...])
Act. 15.38. why doe we thinke much to drinke of an Euangelists Cup? Yet let this ignorant Epistler teach his censorious Answerer one point of his own (that is the Separatists) skill: and tell him that he obiects two crimes to one poore Church, which are incompatible; want of Constitution, and Apostasie. Thus writes your Master of vs: If it were admitted, (which can neuer be proued) that they sometimes had beene true established Churches. Loe here, we neuer had true Constitution, therefore we are not capable of Apostasie: If we once had it, and so were true Churches, heare what your Pastor saith: As Christ giueth to all true Churches their being, so we must leaue it vnto him to take it away, when, and as he pleaseth. And therefore since he hath not remoued his Candlesticke, nor taken away his Kingdome, in spight of all obiected Apostasies, wee
[Page 563] still continue so: and by consequent your separation vpon this ground is most vniust.
No faults disanull the being of a Church, vntil contempt of Gods Word be added therunto after due cōuiction. The faults & errors of a Church may be seuerely reproued & conuinced according to the qualitie therof, and yet the Church not be condemned.
N. B.
Iob 24.19.
Vulg. Edit. Cypr. Epist. ad Cornel. Non est maius peccatum quàm apostatare à Deo. Aug. in Psal. 18.
Prou. 6.12.
Iob. 3
[...].18.
Ezec. 2.3.
Apocal. 2.3. Thou hast laboured, and not giuen in.
Tertul. de Pat. Si hominibus placetur, Dominus offenditur; si vero illud eni
[...] mur & laboramus vt possimus Deo placere, & conuitia & maledicta debemus humana contemnere.
Confessed by
M. Iohn. loc. seq. Inquir. of
Th. White. pag. 65.
Gen. 49.7.
Cypr. de simplic. prael. Quid facit in corde Christiano Luporum seritas, & Caenum rabies? Aug. Confess. l. 9.
c. 9.
Qualia solet eructare turgens indigesta discordia? An Apostate had wont to bee the fearefull surname of damned
Iulian: Tertus was an easie accuser, to whom yet, we may say with
Elihu, N
[...] dicis Regi, Apostata? Behold, now so many Apostataes as men: Holy
Cyprian describes him by forsaking Christs colours, and taking vp Armes for Gentilisme in life, or heresie in iudgement: And
Augustine tells vs, there cannot be a greater sinne than Apostasie; making else-where this sinner, worse than the Infidell. And the old vulgar can giue no worse terme to (
[...]) where he findes it, yea to (
[...]) Rebels themselues. What doth this brand to a Church, not Christian onely (though you denie it) but famous: Of whom is truly verified (after all your spleene) that which the Spirit writes to the Angell of Ephesus:
Laborasti & non Defecisti: Say if you can, what Article of the Christian and Apostolike faith haue we renounced? What Heresie maintaine we? Wherein haue we runne from the Tents of Christ? What hold we that may not stand with life in Christ, and saluation? We challenge all men and Deuils in this point, for our innocence: Distinguish for starke shame, of so foule a word; or (which is better) eat it whole; and let not this blemish be left vpon your soule and name in the Records of God, and the world; that you once said of a Church, too good for yours, Drencht in Apostasie. If wee crie Peace, whiles you crie Apostasie; surely we flatter, whiles you raile: betwixt these two dangerous extremes, we know an wholsome meane, so to approue, that we foster not securitie: so to censure, that we neither reuile, nor separate: and in one word; to doe that which your Pastor could exhort the Separators from your Separation (for euen this Schisme hath Schismes) If we should mislike, yet to rest in our differences of iudgement, and notwithstanding peaceably to continue with the Church: Had you taken this course, you should neither haue needed to expect our pittie, nor to complaine of our crueltie. Surely, whether our loue be cruell, or not, your hatred is: whereof, take heed lest you heare from old IACOB,
Cursed bee their wrath, for it was fierce, and their rage, for it was cruell.
How can you expect compassion, when you breath fire, and write gall? Neuer mention the fury of others indignation, till the venomous and desperate writings of
Barrow and
Greenwood be either worne out with time, or by the Thunderbolts of your (not rare) censures be strucke downe to Hell, whence their maliciousnesse came. I forbeare to recapitulate: how much rather had I helpe to burie, than to reuiue such vnchristian exprobrations?
SEP.
The first action laid against vs, is of vnnaturalnesse and ingratitude towards our Mother the Church of England, for our causelesse separation from her: to which vniust accusation, and triuiall querimonie, our most iust defence hath beene, and is, that to our knowledge wee haue done her no wrong: we doe freely, and with all thankfulnesse acknowledge euery good thing shee hath, and which our selues haue there receiued.
SECTION XIIII.
INGRATITVDE and vnnaturalnesse to your mother is obiected,
The Separatists acknowledgements of the graces of the Church of England. in that you flie from her, yea now (woe is me) that you spet in her face, and marke her for an Harlot: Would God the accusation were as far from being iust, as from being triuiall: Yet perhaps you intend it not in the lightnesse of this charge, but the commonnesse: you haue caused me to smart for my charitie, yet I forbeare it not: What is your defence? That you haue done her no wrong, to your knowledge. Modestly spoken, that doubtfully: we know your wrong, but we know not your knowledge: it is well, if your wrong bee not wilfull: an ignorant wrong is both in more hope of amends, and of mercie: But is not this caution added, rather for that you thinke no hard measure can
[Page 564] possibly be a wrong to so vile a Church? I aske, and would bee denied: No, you doe freely, and with all thankfulnes acknowledge euery good thing shee hath: Whatsoeuer you doe to vs, I will not any more in fauour of you, wilfully wrong my selfe: you haue bidden me now to take you as a complete Separatist: and speake this for your selfe and yours, Let the Reader now iudge, whether the wrong of your Sect be wilfull; and acknowledgment of our good,
H. Barr. Praef. to the separ. defended. Causes of separ. def. p. 12. Confer. with Doctor
Andr. free and thankfull. Your first false-named Martyr shall giue the first witnesse of the titles of our Church: Who (saith he) that were not drunke and intoxicate with the Whores Cup, could affirme this confuse Babel, these cages of vncleane Birds, these Prisons of foule and hatefull Spirits, to be the Spouse of Christ? And else-where, he calls the people of our Church, Goats and Swine. Is this any wrong to your knowledge? The same Author: They haue not (saith he) in their Churches any one thing in their practise & proceedings, not one pin, naile, or hooke according to the true patterne:
Pref. to separ. def. Do you not now freely and thankfully acknowledge our Churches good things? What is more ordinarie with him, and his brother in euill,
Iohn Greenwood, than to call our Ministers
Baals Priests,
Cainites, the marked seruants of Antichrist, Sellers of the Whores wares, Worshippers of the Beast? Is this yet any wrong to your knowledge? Pastor
Iohnson sticks not to say, that the Ministerie & Worship of the Church of England were taken out of the Whores Cup;
Gyff.
refuted touch. Donat.
Obseruat. of M. H. Bar. p.
239. Fr. Iohns.
Reason. 9. against M. Iac. p.
74. Iohns.
against M. Iac. Excep.
3. Nota Bene. and plainly stiles our Church (as which of you doe not?) Daughter of the great Babylon, that mother of Whoredomes and abominations of the earth: yet more; That Hierarchie, Worship, Constitution, and Gouernment, which they professe and practise, being directly Antichristian, do vtterly destroy true Christianity, so as their people and Churches cannot in that estate be iudged true Christians: Do you not now freely and thankfully acknowledge our good things? What can any Deuill of Hell say worse against vs than this, That we are no Christians? Or what good can there be in vs, if no true Christianitie? If we denied euery Article of the Christian Creed: if we were Mahumetans (as your good Pastor sticks not to compare vs) if the most damned Heretiques vnder Heauen,
Ibid. what could he say, but no Christians? Your Teacher and Pastor (which is a wonder) agree: For your Doctor
Ainsworth makes this one head of his poysonous Counterpoyson, that Christ is not the Head, Mediator,
Counterpoys. p. 127. & 131. Prophet, Priest, King of the Church of England: You, their Disciple, are not yet promoted to this height of immodestie; yet what are your good things? Euen to you, we are Apostates, Traytors, Rebels, Babylonish: this is well for a Learner: Hereafter (if you will heare me) keepe our good things to your selfe, and report our euill.
Yea, that your vncharitablenesse may be, aboue all examples, monstrous; You do not onely denie vs any interest in the Church of Christ, but exclude vs (what you may) from all hope and possibilitie of attaining the honor of Christendome: For when a godly Minister protested to Master
Barrow,
Barr. Conference with M.
Sperin. as
Barr. himselfe hath written. p. 9 the truth of his Ministerie; vpon the approbation also of his people, he receiued this answer from him: Though you had such allowance, it could nothing auaile, but rather ouerthrow your Ministerie, they being as yet vngathered to Christ, and therefore neither may not in this estate chuse them a Minister, nor any exercise a Ministerie vnto them, without hainous sacrilege. O desperate iudgment; we neither are Christians, nor can be! No Christianitie without Faith, no Faith without the Ministerie of the Word,
Fr. Iohns. seuen Reas. against
Iac. p. 46.
G. Iohns. Pref. to the Pastor. no Word to vs without Sacrilege: What are we, that the very offer of bringing vs to God should bee criminall? These are your acknowledgements of our good; who haue learned of your Pastor to kisse and kill all at once; to blesse and curse with one breath: your mercies are cruell.
SECTION XV.
The vnnaturalnesse of some principal Separatists.
Ruffin. l. 2.
Eccles. Hist. c. 3.
Aug. ep. & Posid. in vita Aug.BVT who can wonder at your vnnaturalnesse to the Church, that heares what measure you mete to your owne? Error is commonly ioyned with crueltie: The outragious demenors of the
Circumcelliones in
Augustines time, and more than barbarous tyrannie of the
Arrians before him, are well knowne by all Histories, and not enough by any: God forbid, that I should compare you to these. Heare rather of
Nonatus,
[Page 565] the father of a not vnlike Sect, of whom
Cyprian reports,
Euseb. Hist. Eccl. D
[...]mnis grauissimis & caedibus afficiebant, armati diuersis telis.
Socrat. l.
2. c.
22. &
30. Cyprian. l.
2. epist.
8. Nouati pater in vic
[...] fame mortuus, nec postea ab ille sepultus Sic Optat. lib.
1. Purpurius Donatista occidit seroris filios, &c. that hee would neither bestow bread on his father aliue, nor burial on him dead, but suffered him both to starue and stinke in the street: and for his wife (lest he should be mercifull to any) he spurned her with his heele; and slew his owne childe in her body: What neede I seeke so farre? I grieue to thinke and report, that your owne Pastor hath paralleld this cruelty: His owne brother (which is no lesse sauage) though one of your Sect, is the publike accuser and condemner of him in this crime to all the World: who after a pitifull relation of his eight yeeres quarrells with him, and foure yeeres Excommunication, in his Epistle before a large Volume to this purpose, writes thus:
After all these, hath not our kinde, carefull, and olde Father come a long iourney to make Peace? Hath he not laboured with you, the Elders and the Church, to bring you to peace? Hath he not vsed the helpe and counsell of the Reformed Churches herein? Yet will you not be reclaimed; but adding that sinne aboue all,
G. Iohns. Discourse of troubles & excommunications at Amsterdam, printed, 1603.
Ibid. p. 5. haue also monstrously excommunicated your Father, the Peace-seeker, &c. And straight; How oft desired he you (as if hee had beene the sonne and you the father) euen with teares, that you would repent? In a word, how came He and I to your doore, shewing you that it might be (vpon his departing) you should see his face no more? &c. Yet you forced him by your ill dealing, still to leaue vpon you, his Curse, and all the Curses written in Gods Booke against vnthankfull and disobedient children. Thus farr a brother concerning a brother, against father and brother, Other strangely-vnkinde vsages of both, I had rather leaue to the discouery of Master
White, and this miserable Plaintife,
Discouery of
Brownisme. Vid. G. Iohns. Booke. who haue written enough to make an enemie ashamed. But wherevpon was all this fearefull broyle in a pure Church? For nothing but a little lace, and Whale-bone in his wiues sleeue. The Troiane war could not bee slandered with so weighty a beginning. As for your Elder,
Daniel Studly (whom your Pastor so much extolleth) if Master
Whites Apostasie may be your shift against his Relation;
Inq into
Th. Whites Discou. let him speake who should haue beene a Fellow-Elder with him, banished for your truth, though eiected by your censure: Marke (saith
G. Iohns. of this
Studly) how the Lord hath iudged him with vnnaturalnesse to his owne children, suffering them to lye at other mens feet, and hang on other mens hands,
Same Epist. 15. whiles he, his wife, and her daughter fared daintily, and went prankingly in apparell,
They say, Filia Sponsae. Mihi accusatio etiam vera contra fratrem displacet. Hieron. aduersus Ruffin. euen in this place of banishment. It is no ioy to me to blazon these, or your other sins; would God they were fewer, and lesse in vs all. Onely it was fit the World should know, as how vndutifull you are to your common Parent, so that Father, Brother, Children beare part with your Mother in these your cruelties.
SEP.
The superabundant grace of God couering & passing by the manifold enormities in that Church wherewith these good things are inseparably commingled, and wherein we also through ignorance and infirmity were inwrapped. But what then? should we still haue continued in sinne, that grace might haue abounded? If God haue caused a further truth, like a light in a darke place, to shine in our hearts, should we still haue mingled that light with darknesse, contrary to the Lords owne practise
Genes. 1.4. and expresse precept?
2 Cor. 6.14.
What the Separatists thinke themselues beholden to the Church of England for.
Bar. Exam. before the Archbishop and
L. Anderson.
Browne, state of Christians.
p. 39
Qui non habet quod dei, qu
[...] d
[...] dei? vox Donat. Opt. lib. 1.
SECTION XVI.
IF then such be the good things of our Church; What good can you acknowledge to haue receiued from her? Nothing giues what it hath not: A Baptisme perhaps; Alas, but no true Sacrament, you say: yea, the seale of gracelesnes and mischiefe; As little are you beholden to the Church for that, as the Church to you, for your good acceptation: Why are you not rebaptized? You that cannot abide a false Church, why doe you content your selues with a false Sacrament? especially, since our Church, being not yet gathered to Christ, is no Church, and therefore her baptisme a nullitie.
What else doe you owe to the liberality of this Step-dame? You are close; your Pastor is lauish for you both; who thus speaks of himselfe, and you, and vs: I confesse
[Page 566] that whiles I was Minister in your Church of Englād,
Bar. supra Fr. Iohn
against M. Iacob. p.
41. Exc. 2. I stood in an Antichristian estate; yet doubt I not, but euen then, being of the Elect of God, I was partaker through faith, of the mercy of God in Christ to saluation: but as for you (Ma. IACOB & his fellow-Christians) whiles you thus remaine, you cannot in that estate approue your selues to haue the promise of saluation. Behold here, the Church of England gaue you but an Antichristian estate; if God giue secret mercie, what is that to her?
Gods superaboundant grace doth neither abate ought of her Antichristianisme, nor moue you to follow him in couering, and passing by the manifold enormities in our Church, wherewith those good things are inseparably commingled: Your owne mouth shall condemne you: Doth God passe ouer our enormities, and doe you sticke, yea, separate? Doth his grace couer them, and doe you display them? Haue you learned to be more iust than your Maker? Or if you be not aboue his iustice, why are you against his mercy? God hath not disclaimed vs, by your owne confession; you haue preuented him. If Princes leasurees may not be stayed in reforming, yet shall not Gods in reiecting? Your ignorance enwrapped you in your errors: his infinite wisedome sees them, and yet his infinite mercy forbeares them: so might you at once haue seene, disliked, stayed; If you did not herein goe contrary to the courses of our common God, how happy should both sides haue beene? yea, how should there be no sides? How should we be more inseparably commingled, than our good and euill?
But should you haue continued still in sinne that grace might haue abounded? God forbid: you might haue continued here without sinne (saue your owne) and then grace would no lesse haue abounded to you, than now your sin abounds in not continuing: What neede you to surfet of another mans Trencher? Other sinnes need no more to infect you, than your graces can sanctifie them. As for your further light, suspect it not of God: suspect it to bee meere darknesse: and if the light in you bee darknesse, how great is that darknesse? What? so true and glorious a light of God, and neuer seene till now? No Worlds, Times, Churches, Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Martyrs, Fathers, Doctors,
Gen. 1.2.
Esa. 5.20. Woe to them that put darknesse for light.
Esa. 59.9. Christians, euer saw this truth looke forth besides you, vntill you? Externall light was Gods first creature, and shall this spirituall light, whereby all Churches should be discerned, come thus late? Mistrust therefore your eyes, and your light: and feare
Esayes woe, and the Iewes miserable disappointment: we wait for light, but loe, it is darknesse: for brightnesse, but we walke in obscuritie.
SEP.
But the Church of
England (say you) is our Mother, and so ought not to be auoyded: But say I, we must not so cleaue to holy Mother Church, as we neglect our Heauenly Father, and his Commandements, which we know in that estate we could not but transgresse, and that hainously, and against our consciences, not onely in the want of many Christian Ordinances, to which we are most straightly bound both by Gods Word and our owne necessities,
SECTION XVII.
THE Church of England is your Mother, to her small comfort; she hath borne you,
The Motherhood of the Church of England, how far it obligeth vs.
Deut. 21, 22, 23. and repented. Alas, you haue giuen her cause to powre out
Iobs curses vpon your Birth-day, by your not onely forsaking but cursing her: Stand not vpon her faults, which you shall neuer proue capitall: Not onely the best Parent might haue brought forth a rebellious sonne to be stoned. What then? Doe we prefer dutie to piety, and so plead for our Holy Mother Church, that we neglect our Heauenly Father, yea, offend him? See what you say: it must needs be an Holy Mother that cannot be pleased without the displeasure of God: A good wife, that opposes such an husband: a good sonne that vpbraids this vniustly: Therefore is shee a Church, your Mother, holy,
Mater Ecclesia, Mater est etiam Matris nostrae. Aug. Epist.
38. because shee bred you to God, cleaues to him, obeyes his commandements, and commands them. And so farre is shee from this desperate contradiction, that shee voweth not to hold you for her sonne, vnlesse you honour God as a Father. It is a wilfull slander that you could not but hainously transgresse vnder her: I dare take it vpon my soule,
[Page 567] that all your transgression which you should necessarily haue incurred by her obedience, is nothing so hainous, as your vncharitablenesse in your censures and disobedience. Conscience is a common plea, euen to those you hate: we inquire not how strong it is, but how well informed: not whether it suggest this, but whereupon. To go against the conscience is sinne, to follow a mis-informed conscience is sinne also. If you do not the first, we know you are faultie in the second: He that is greater than the conscience, will not take this for an excuse: But wherein should haue beene this transgression; so vnauoidable, hainous, against conscience? First, in the want of many Ordinances, to which we are most strictly bound, both by Gods Word, and our owne necessities.
SECTION XVIII.
CAn you thinke this hangs well together?
The want of pretended Ordinances of God, whether sinfull to vs: and whether they are to bee set vp without Princes.
[...],
&c.
[...].
N
[...]m per exteriorem vi
[...]l
[...]tiā cor
[...]pitur, si interior innocentia custodiat
[...]r. cap. 114. 3.
Custodi, &c. Ad docendum populum Israel
[...] ticum, omnipotens Deus Prophetis praeconium dedit, non Regibus imperauit. Aug. l. 2.
contra Gau. c. 11.
Barr. causes of separat. def.
p. 6.
Barr. Reformation without tarrying.
Aug. contra Petilian. l. 2.
Optatus Mileuit. lib. 30.
Bar. second Examination before the Lord Archbishop and Lord Chiefe-Iustice compar. with his reply to M.
Gyff. Art. 5. You should here want many of Gods Ordinances: why should you want them? Because you are not suffered to enioy them: who hinders it? Superior powers: Did euer man wilfully and hainously offend, for wanting of that which he could not haue? What hath conscience to doe with that which is out of our power? Is necessity with you become a sinne, and that hainous?
Dauid is driuen to lurke in the wildernesse, and forced to want the vse of many diuine Ordinances: It was his sorrow, not his transgression: Hee complaines of this, but doth he accuse himselfe of sinne? Not to desire them had beene sinne, no sinne to be debarred them: Well might this be
Sauls sinne, but not his. Haue you not sinnes enow of your owne, that you must needs borrow of others? But I see your ground: You are bound to haue these Ordinances; and therefore without Princes, yea against them: so it is your transgression to want them in spight of Magistrates:
Gaudentius the Donatist taught you this of old; And this is one of the Hebrew Songs which Master
Barrow sings to vs in Babylon, that we care not to make Christ attend vpon Princes, and to be subiect to their Lawes and Gouernment: and his Predecessor (the root of your Sect) tels vs in this sense the Kingdome of Heauen must suffer violence, and that it comes not with obseruation; that men may say, Loe, the Parliament, or loe, the Bishops decrees: and in the same Treatise; The Lords Kingdome must wait on your policy, forsooth; and his Church must be framed your ciuill State, &c. Iust as that Donatist of old, in
Augustine, Quid vobis, &c. What haue you to doe with worldly Emperours? and as that other in
Optatus: Quid Imperatoricum Ecclesia? What hath the Emperor to doe with the Church? Yea, your Martyr feares not to teach vs, that Gods seruants being as yet priuate men, may and must together build his Church, though all the Princes of the World should prohibit the same vpon paine of death: Belike then you should sinne hainously, if you should not be Rebels. The question is not, whether we should aske leaue of Princes to be Christians; but whether of Christian Princes we should aske leaue to establish circumstances of Gouernment: God must be serued though we suffer; our bloud is well bestowed vpon our Maker: but in patience, not in violence. Priuate profession is one thing; Publike Reformation and Iniunction is another; Euery man must doe that in the maine: none may doe this, but they of whom God saies, I haue said, Ye are Gods: and of them, There is difference betwixt Christian and Heathen Princes: If (at least) all Princes were not to you Heathen: If these should haue beene altogether stayed for, Religion had come late: If the other should not be stayed for, Religion would soone bee ouerlayd with confusion: Lastly, the body of Religion is one thing, the skirts of outward Gouernment another: that may not depend on men to be embraced, or (with loyaltie) prosecuted: these (vpon those generall rules Christ) both may, and doe, and must: If you cut off but one lap of these with
Dauid, you shall bee touched: To deny this power to Gods Deputies on Earth, what is it, but Ye take too much vpon you,
Moses and
Aaron,
1
Sam. 24.6.
Numb. 16.3. all the Congregation is holy: wherefore lift ye your selues aboue the Congregation of the Lord? See, if herein you come not too neere the wals of that Rome, which yee so abhorre and accurse, in ascribing such power to the Church, none to Princes.
Counterpoys.
pag. 2.30. Let your Doctor tell
[Page 568] you,
2
Chron. 13. 2
Chr. 14.
& 15. 2
Chron. 29. 2
Chron. 30. 2
Chron. 34. whether the best Israelites in the times of
Abisah, Asa, Iehosaphat, Ezekiah, Iosiah, tooke vpon them to reforme without, or before, or against their Princes? Yea, did
Nehemiah himselfe without
Ar
[...]hshat (though an Heathen King) set vpon the wals of Gods City▪ Or what did
[...]erubbabel▪ and
Ieshua without
Cyrus? In whose time
Hagg
[...] and
Zechariah prophesied indeed, but built not: And when contrary Letters came from aboue, they
[...]id by both Trowels and Swords: They would be Iewes still, they would not be Rebels for God:
Ezr. 4.23, 24. Had those letters inioyned Swines flesh, or Idolatry, or forbidden the vse of the Law, those which now yeelded, had suffered, and at once testified their obedience to authority, and piety to him that sits in the Assembly of these earthen gods. I vrge no more: Perhaps you are more wise, or lesse mutinous: you might easily therefore purge your conscience from this sinne, of wanting what you might not perforce enioy.
Say that your Church should imploy you backe to this our
Babylon, for the calling out of more proselytes: you are intercepted, imprisoned: Shall it bee sinne in you not to heare the Prophesies at
Amsterdam? The Clinke is a lawfull excuse: If your feet bee bound, your conscience is not bound. In these Negatiues, outward force takes away both sinne and blame, and alters them from the patient to the actor: so that now you see your straight bonds (if they were such) loosed by obedience, and ouer-ruling power.
SECTION XIX.
The bonds of Gods Word vniustly pleaded by the Separ.BVT what bonds were these straight ones? Gods Word and your owne necessitie: Both strong and indissoluble.
Where God hath bidden, God forbid that we should care for the forbiddance of men: I reuerence from my soule (so doth our Church, their deare sister) those worthy forraine Churches which haue chosen and followed those formes of outward Gouernment that are euery way fittest for their own condition. It is enough for your Sect to censure them: I touch nothing common to them with you:
Aug. Epist. 58.
Pastores autem & Doctores qu
[...] maxime vt discerner
[...]m voluisti, eosdem puto esse sicut. &
[...]ibi visum est, vt non alios Pastores, alios Doctores intelligeremus, sed ideo cùm praedixisset Pastores, subi
[...]xisse Doctores, vt intelligerent Pastores ad officium suum pertinere doctrinam.
Barr. against
Gyff. inueighs for this cause against the Consistorie of
Geneua.
Fr. Iohns. complaints of the
Dutch. and
Fr. Churches. Description of a visible Church cannot make a Distinct. in the Definition of their Offices. State of Christians 119. Description of visible Church.
H. Clap. Epist. before his Treatise of Sinne against the Holy Ghost.
Brownists 4. Position. Trouble and Excom. at Amster.
Fr. Iohns. in a Letter to
M. Smith. While the world standeth, where will it euer be shewed out of the Sacred Booke of God, that hee hath charged, Let there be perpetuall Lay-Elders in euery Congregation: Let euery Assembly haue a Pastor and Doctor, distinct in their charge and offices: Let all Decisions, Excommunications, Ordinations, bee performed by the whole multitude: Let priuate Christians (aboue the first turne, in extremitie) agree to set ouer themselues a Pastor, chosen from amongst them, and receiue him with Prayer, and (vnlesse that Ceremony be turned to pompe and Superstition) by imposition of hands. Let there bee Widowers (which you call Releeuers) appointed euery where to the Church-Seruice. Let certaine discreet and able men which are not Ministers, bee appointed to preach the Gospell, and whole truth of God to the people.
All the learned Diuines of other Churches are in these left, yea, in the most of them censured by you: Hath God spoken these things to you alone? Plead not Reuelations, and we feare you not. Pardon so homely an example: As soone, and by the same illumination shall G.
Iohns. proue to your Consistory the lace of the Pastors wiues sleeue, or rings, or Whalebones, or others amongst you (as your Pastor confesseth) knit-stockings, or corke-shooes forbidden flatly by Scriptures, as these commanded. Wee see the letter of the Scriptures with you: you shall fetch bloud of them with straining, ere you shall wring out this sense: No, no,
(M.R.) neuer make God your stale: Many of your ordinances came from no higher than your owne braine: Others of them though God acknowledges, yet he imposed not: Pretend what you will: These are but the cords of your owne conceit, not bonds of Christian obedience.
SECTION XX.
THe first of these then, is easily vntwisted: your second is necessity:
The necessity of their pretended ordinance. Than which what can be stronger? what law, or what remedy is against necessity? What wee must haue wee cannot want▪ Oppose but the publike necessity to yours: your necessity of hauing, to the publike necessity of withholding: and let one of these necessities (like two nailes) driue out another: So they haue done,
Nulla necessit
[...] maior est charitate Hieron. Apol. ad Ruff. Fr. Iun. de Eccl. Sed accidunt per saepe tempora quibus aut noua Ecclesia generatur, aut altera pars interrumpitur (scilicet
[...]) & tamen Ecclesia esse non definit, forma nimirum essentiali adhuc permanente.
Act.
7. beg. Cypr. l.
3. Ep.
9. Mem. nisse Diacom debent quoniam Apostolos (id est) Episcopos & praepositos Dominus elega. Diaconos autem post ascensum Domini in coelos Apostoli sibi constituerunt Episcopatus sui et Ecclesiae ministros. Rom.
1.8. 1 Cor.
1.5. 1 Thes.
1.7. Gal.
4.15. and your owne necessitie (as the stronger) hath preuailed; for that other necessity might bee eluded by flight: you haue sought and found else-where what the necessity of our lawes denied, and the necessitie of your conscience required. Beware lest vniustly: Sinne is as strong bond to a good heart as impossibility; Christians cannot doe what they ought not: contrary to the lawes of your Prince and Country: you haue fled not only from vs, but from our Communion. Either is disobedience no sin, or might you doe this euill, that good may come of it? But what necessity is this? simple and absolute, or conditionall? Is there no remedie but you must needs haue such Elders, Pastors, Doctors, Releeuers, such offices, such executions? Can there bee no Church, no Christians without them? What shall wee say of the families of the Patriarks, of the Iewish congregations vnder the Law, yea, of Christ and his Apostles? Either deny them to haue beene visible Churches, or shew vs your distinct offices amongst them: But as yet (you say) they were not: Therefore God hath had a true Church (thousands of yeeres) without them: Therefore they are not of the essence of the Church: You call me to the times since Christ: I demand then, was there not a worthy Church of God in Ierusalem from the time of Christs Ascension, till the election of the seuen Deacons. Those hundred and twenty Disciples,
Act. 1.15. and three thousand Conuerts,
Act. 2.41. Those continuall Troupes that flocked to the Apostles, were they no true Church? Let the Apostles and Euangelists be Pastors and Doctors: where were their Elders, Deacons, Releeuers? Afterwards, when Deacons were ordained, yet what newes is there of Elders, till
Act. 11? yet that of Ierusalem was more forward than the rest: We will not (as you are wont) argue from Scriptures negatiuely: no proofe, yet much probabilitie is in
S. Pauls silence: He writes to
Rome, Corinth, and other Churches: those his Diuine letters in a sweet Christian-ciuility salute euen ordinary Christians: And would hee haue vtterly passed by all mention of these Church-officers, amongst his so precise acknowledgement of lesser titles in others, if they had beene ere this ordained? yet all these more than true Churches, famous some of them, rich, forward and exemplary. Onely the
Philippian Church is stiled with Bishops and Deacons,
Phil. 1.2. but no Elders besides them. The Churches of Christ since these, (if at least you will grant that Christ had any Church till now) haue continued in a recorded succession through many hundreds of yeeres. Search the Monuments of her Histories: shew vs where euer in particular Congregations all these your necessary Offices (as you describe them) were either found or required. It was therefore a new-no-necessitie that bound you to this course, or (if you had rather) a necessitie of Fallibilitie: If with these God may be well serued, he may be well serued without them. This is not that
v
[...]m necessari
[...] that Christ commends in
Marie: you might haue sate still with lesse trouble, and more thankes.
SEP.
But also in our most sinfull subiection to many Antichristian enormities, which we are bound to eschue as hell.
SECTION XXI.
BVT besides that we ought to haue had somewhat which we want,
The enormities of the Church in common. wee haue somewhat which we should haue wanted: Some? yea, many Antichristian enormities.
[Page 570] To say we are absolute, and neither want nor abound, were the voyce of Laodicea or Tyrus in the Prophet: Our Church as shee is true so humble: and is as far from arrogating perfection, as acknowledging falshood: If she haue enormities, yet not so many:
Fr. Iohns.
against M. Iacob. Bar. Gyff.
refuted, i. Transgress. p.
28. or if many, not Antichristian. Your
Cham hath espied ninetie one nakednesses in this his mother, and glories to shew them; All his malice cannot shew one fundamentall error: and when the foule mouth of your false Martyr hath said all, they are but some spots and blemishes, not the old running issues, and incurable botches of
Aegypt: the particulars shall plead for themselues. These you eschew as hell: While you goe on thus vncharitably both alike; Doe you hate these more, than Master
Smith, and his faction hates yours? His Character shall be iudge: So do we value your detestation, as you his. It were well for you, if you eschewed these enormities lesse, and hell more: Your sinfull subiection to these vnchristian humors, will proue more fearefull than to our Antichristian enormities.
SEP.
Shee is our mother: so may shee be, and yet not the Lords Wife: euery mother of children is not a wife.
Ammi and
Ruhamah were bidden to plead with their mother Apostat
Israel, and pleads that shee was not the Lords wife, nor He her husband,
Ho. 2.1, 2. And though you forbid vs a thousand times, yet must we plead: not to excuse our fault, but to iustifie our innocencie: and that not onely not so much in respect of our selues, as of the truth: which without sacrilege wee may not suffer to bee condemned vnheard. And if you yet heare her not, rather blame your selues as deafe, than vs as dumbe.
Hierom. ad Eustoch. Epitaph. Paulae ex Psal. 67.
SECTION XXII.
The Church of England is the Spouse of Christ.
Cypr. de simplic. Praelator. Adulterari non potest sp
[...]sa Christi, incorrupta est & pudica.
1
King. 12.29.
Hos. 2.16.2.13.SHE may be your Mother (you say) and not the Lords Wife. It is a good Mother that hath Children, and no Husband: Why did you not call her plaine Where? Your old Embleme is, As is the mother, so is the Daughter. These are the modest circumlocutions of a good Sonne, who cares not to proue himselfe a Bastard, that his Mother may be markt for an Harlot: be you a true
Lo-ammi; but England shall neuer (I hope) proue an Apostate Israel: We haue no Calues in our Dan and Bethel, none of
Ieroboams Idolatrie: We haue still called God ISHI, and neuer burnt incense to
Baali
[...]: It is your Synagogue that hath fallen away from vs, as Israel from Iuda: But these Children were bidden to plead: Gods command shields them from the note of vngracious.
Abraham must sacrifice his Sonne; and this Sonne must condemne his Mother: shew vs either our equall desert, or your equall warrant. Where hath God proclaimed our Church not his? By whose hand hath he published her diuorce? You haue shamed her wombe, not she her bed, not God her demeanour.
Your tongues are your owne, who can forbid you? We know you will plead, and excuse; and censure, and defend; till all the world be weary: we may pray with
Hierom to this sense that of the Psalmist,
Increpa Domine Bestiaes Calami: yet we see your Pens, Tongues, and Presses, busie and violent. I will not applie to you that which
Augustine of his Donatists.
Aug. cont. Epist. Parmen. l.
1. Though truth compell you to be dumbe, yet iniquitie will not suffer you to be silent. But if you write whole Marts and worlds of Volumes, you shall neuer be able either to iustifie your Innocence, or excuse your fault: In the meane time, the noyse of your contentions is so great, that your truth cannot be heard. Learned
Iunius, and our learnedst Diuines, and neighbour Churches, haue oft heard your clamors, neuer your truth:
Epist. Iunij ad Separ. So little haue you of this, and so much of the other, that wee are ready to wish (as he of old) either ourselues deafe, or you dumbe.
SEP.
Is not
Babylon the Mother of Gods people? whom he therefore commandeth to depart out of her, lest being partakers of her sinnes, they also partake of her plagues. And to conclude, what say you more against vs, for your Mother the Church of England, than the Papists doe for their Mother, and your Mothers Mother, the Church of Rome, against you, whom they condemne as vnnaturall Bastards and impious Patricides in your separation from her?
SECTION XXIII.
THE spirit of your
Proto-Martyr, would hardly haue digested this title of
Babylon Mother of Gods people; a murdering Step-mother, rather:
How the Church of England hath separated from
Babylon. Gyff. refut. 2.
transg. Reuel. 18.2. Ans. fore-speech to Counterpoyse. Shee cannot be a Mother of Children to God, and no Church of God: Notwithstanding, Gods people (would he say) may be in her, not of her. So Babylon bore them not, but Sion in Babylon; But I feare not your excesse of charitie: You flye to your Doctors challenge; and aske what we say against you for vs, which
Rome will not say for her selfe against vs: Will you iustifie this Plea of
Rome, or not? If you will, why doe you reuile her? If you will not, why doe you obiect it?
Heare then what wee say both to you and them, our enemies both: and yet the enemies of our enemies: First, wee disclaime, and defie your Pedigree and theirs. The Church of
Rome was neuer our Mothers Mother: Our Christian faith came not from the seuen-hilles: Neither was deriued either from
Augustine the Monke,
A Simone Zelota Niceph. Alij à Ios. Arimath. cuius hic sepulchrum cernitur. Angli Pascha Graeco more celebrarunt. Iacob. Armin. Disp. Cant.
8.8. Fr. Iun. l. sing. de Eccle. or Pope
Gregorie. Britanie had a worthy Church before either of them lookt into the world: It is true that the ancient Romane Church was sister to ours: heere was neere kindred, no dependance: And not more consanguinity, than (while she continued faithfull) Christian loue: Now she is gone a whoring, her chaste sister iustly spitteth at her: yet euen still (if you distinguish, as your learned Antagonist hath taught you, betwixt the Church and Papacie) she acknowledges her Sisterhood, though she refraines her conuersation: as she hath many slauish & factious abettors of her knowne and grosse errors (to whom we deny this title) affirming them the body, whereof Antichrist is the head, the great Whore, and Mother of abominations; so againe how many thousands hath she, which retaining the foundation according to their knowledge, (as our learned
Whitakers had wont to say of
Bernard) follow
Absolom with a simple heart: all which to reiect from Gods Church, were no better than presumptuous cruelty. It were well for you before God and the world, if you could as easily wash your hands of vnnaturall impiety, and trecherousnesse, as we of Bastardy and vniust sequestration. There can be no Bastardy, where was neuer any Motherhood, we were nephewes to that Church, neuer sonnes: vnlesse as
Rome was the mother City of the world, so by humane institution, we suffered our selues to bee ranged vnder her Patriarchall authoritie, as being the most famous Church of the West: a matter of courtesie, and pretended Order; no necessity, no spirituall obligation. As for our sequestration, your mouth and theirs may bee stopt with this Answer: As all corrupted Churches, so some things the Church of
Rome still holds a right; a true God in three persons, true Scriptures, though with addition, a true
Christ, though mangled with foule and erroneous consequences; true Baptisme, though shamefully deformed with rotten Traditions; and many other vndeniable truths of God: some other things (and too many) her wicked Apostasie hath deuised and maintained abhominably amisse; the body of her Antichristianisme, grosse errors, and (by iust sequell) heresies; their Popes Supremacie, infallibility, Illimitation, Transubstantiation, Idolatrous and superstitious worship, and a thousand other of this branne: In regard of all these latter, wee professe to the world a iust and ancient separation from this false faith and deuotion of the Romish Church; which neither you will say, nor they shall euer proue faulty: yea rather they haue in all these separated from vs, who still irrefragably professe to hold with the ancient, from whom they are
[Page 572] departed. In regard of the other wee are still with them, holding and embracing with them what they hold with Christ: neither will you (I thinke) euer prooue that in these we should differ. As for our communion, they haue separated vs by their proud and foolish excommunications: if they had not, wee would iustly haue begun: from their Tyranny and Antichristianisme, from their miserable Idolatry: but as for the body of their poore seduced Christians, which remaine amongst them vpon the true foundation (as doubtlesse there are thousands of them which laugh at their Pardons, Miracles, Superstitions, and their trust in merits reposing onely vpon Christ) we adhere to them in loue and pittie, and haue testified our affection by our bloud, ready vpon any iust call to doe it more;
Phil. Morn. du Plesses Lib. de Eccle. cap.
10. neither would feare to ioyne with them in any true seruice of our common God: But the full discourse of this point, that honourable and learned
Plesses hath so forestalled, that whatsoeuer I say, would seeme but borrowed. Vnto his rich Treatise I referre my Reader, for full satisfaction: Would God this point were thorowly knowne, and well weighed on all parts. The neglect or ignorance whereof hath both bred and nursed your separation, and driuen the weake and inconsiderate into strange extremities.
This say wee of our selues in no more Charity than Truth: But for you; how dare you make this shamelesse comparison? Can your heart suffer your tongue to say; that there is no more difference betwixt
Rome and vs, than there is betwixt vs and you? How many hundred errors, how many damnable heresies haue we euinced with you, in that (so compounded) Church? shew vs but one mis-opinion in our Church that you can proue within the ken of the foundation:
Counterp. p. 171. Let not zeale make you impudent: Your Doctor could say (ingenuously sure) that in the Doctrines which she professeth, she is far better and purer than the Whore Mother of
Rome, and your last Martyr, yet better: If you meane (saith he) by a Church (as the most doe) that publike profession whereby men doe professe saluation to be had by the death and righteousnesse of Iesus Christ, I am free from denying any Church of Christ to be in this Land:
1. Penry
Exam. before M Fanshaw
and Iust. Young.
Fr. Iun. l. de Eccles.
M. Hooker Eccles. pol. Du Plesses, l. de Eccl. Iacob. Armin. disput. D Reynolds Thess. D. Feild
of the Church. Reuel.
3. &
2. for I know the doctrine touching the holy Trinity, the natures and offices of the Lord Iesus, free iustification by him; both the Sacraments, &c. published by her Maiesties authority, and commanded by her lawes, to bee the Lords blessed and vndoubted Truths, without the knowledge and profession whereof no saluation is to be had: Thus hee with some honesty, though little sense. If therefore your will doe not stand in your light, you may well see, why we should thus forsake their Communion, and yet not you ours. Yet though their corruptions be incomparably more, we haue not dared to separate so farre from them, as you haue done from vs for lesse: Still we hold them euen a visible Church, but vnsound, sicke, dying; sicke, not of a consumption onely, but of a leprosie or plague (so is the Papacie to the Church) diseases, not more deadly than infectious: If they be not rather in
Sardies taking; of whom the spirit of God saith, thou hast a name that thou liuest, but thou art dead; and yet in the next words bids them awake, and strengthen the things which are ready to die. And though our iudgement and practise haue forsaken their erronious doctrines and seruice, yet our charity (if you take that former distinction) hath not vtterly forsaken and condemned their persons. This is not our coolenesse, but equality: your reprobation of vs for them, hath not more zeale than headstrong vncharitablenesse.
SEP.
And were not
Luther, Zuinglius, Cranmer, Latimer, and the rest begot to the Lord in the Wombe of the Romish Church? did they not receiue the knowledge of his truth when they stood actuall members of it? whom notwithstanding afterwards they forsooke, and that iustly for her fornication.
SECTION XXIV.
BVT how could you without blushing once name
Cranmer, Latimer,
The separation made by our holy Martyrs. and those other holy Martyrs, which haue beene so oft obiected to the conuiction of your Schisme? Those Saints so forsooke the Romish Church, as we haue done, died witnesses of Gods Truth in that Church, from which you are separated▪ liued, preached, gouerned, shed their bloud in the communion of the Church of England, which you disclaime and condemne as no Church of God, as meerely Antichristian: Either of necessity they were no Martyrs, yea, no Christians, or else your Separations and Censures of vs are wicked. Chuse whether you will; They were in the same case with vs; we are in the same case with them; no difference but in the time: either their bloud will be vpon your heads, or your owne: this Church had then the same constitution, the same confusion, the same worship, the same Ministerie, the same gouernment (which you brand with Antichristianisme) swayed by the holy hands of these men of God; condemne them, or allow vs. For their Separation: They found many maine errors of doctrine in the Church of Rome (in the Papacie nothing but errors) worth dying for: shew vs one such in ours, and we will not only approue your Separation, but imitate it.
SEP.
But here in the name of the Church of
England, you wash your hands of all
Babylonish abominations, which you pretend you haue forsaken, and her for them. And in this regard you speake thus: The Reformation you haue made of the many and maine corruptions of the
Romish Church, we doe ingenuously acknowledge, and doe withall imbrace with you all the truths which to our knowledge you haue receiued instead of them. But
Rome was not built all in a day. The mysterie of iniquitie did aduance it selfe by degrees: and as the rise was, so must the fall be. That Man of Sinne, and Lawlesse man, must languish and die away of a consumption,
2 Thess. 2.8. And what though many of the highest Towers of
Babel, and of the strongest Pillars also be
[...] demolished, and pulled downe, yet may the building stand still, though tottering to and fro (as it doth) and onely vnderpropped and vpheld with the shoulder and arme of flesh, without which in a very moment it would fall flat vpon, and lie leuell with the earth.
SECTION XXV.
THE Church of England doth not now wash her hands of Babylonish abominations, but rather shewes they are cleane.
What separation England hath made. Would God they were no more foule with your slander than her owne Antichristianisme. Here will be found not pretences, but proofes of our forsaking Babylon; of your forsaking vs, not so much as well-coloured pretences: You begin to be ingenuous; while you confesse a reformation in the Church of England: not of some corruptions, but many; and those many not slight, but maine.
The gifts of Aduersaries are thanklesse: As
Ierome said of his
Ruffinus; so may wee of you, that you wrong vs with praises: This is no more praise than your next page giues to Antichrist himselfe. Leaue out many, and though your commendations bee more vncertaine, we shall accept it: so your indefinite proposition shall sound to vs as generall, That wee haue reformed the maine corruptions of the Romish Church: None therefore remaine vpon vs, but slight and superficiall blemishes. So you haue forsaken a Church of foule skin, but of a sound heart; for want of beautie, not of truth.
But you say many, not All; that if you can picke a quarrell with one, you might reiect all: yet shew vs that one maine and substantiall error, which wee haue not reformed: and you doe not more embrace those truths with vs which we haue receiued, than wee will condemne that falshood which you haue reiected, and embrace the truth of that Separation which you haue practised.
The degrees whereby that strumpet of Babylon got on Horse-backe you haue learned of vs, who haue both learned and taught, that as Christ came not abruptly into the world, but with many presages and prefigurations, (The day was long dawning ere this Sunne arose) so his aduersarie (that Antichrist) breaks not suddenly vpon the Church, but comes with much preparation and long expectance: and as his rise, so his fall must be graduall, and leisurely: Why say you then, that the whole Church euery where, must at once vtterly fall off from that Church where that Man of Sinne sitteth? His fall depends on the fall of others, or rather their rising from vnder him: If neither of these must be sudden, why is your haste? But this must not be, yet ought: as there must be heresies, yet there ought not: It is one thing what God hath secretly decreed, another what must be desired of vs: If we could pull that Harlot from her seat, and put her to
Iesabels death, it were happy: Haue wee not endeuored it? What speake you of the highest Towers, and strongest pillars, or tottering remainders of Babylon? wee shew you all her roofes bare, her walles razed, her vaults digged vp, her Monuments defaced, her Altars sacrificed to desolation: Shortly, all her buildings demolished, not a stone vpon a stone, saue in rude heapes, to tell that here once was Babylon: Your strife goes about to build againe that her tower of confusion. God diuides your languages: It will be well; if yet you build not more than we haue reserued.
SEP.
You haue renounced many false doctrines in Poperie, and in their places embraced the truth. But what if this truth be taught vnder the same hatefull Prelacie in the same deuised office of Ministerie, and confused communion of the prophane multitude, and that mingled with many errors?
SECTION XXVI.
THe maine grounds of Separation.YOu will now bee free both in your profession and gift; You giue vs to haue renounced many false doctrines in Popery: and to haue embraced so many truths: we take it vntill more: You professe where you sticke, what you mislike: In these foure famous heads, which you haue learned by heart from all your predecessors: An hatefull Prelacie,
Barr. and
Gr. against
Gyffe Confer. & Exam.
passim. Penry in his Exam.
Exo. 1.2, 3,
&c. Ierem. 20.1.
Ierem. 5.
vlt. A deuised Ministerie, a confused and profane communion, and lastly, the intermixture of grieuous errors.
What if this truth were taught vnder a hatefull Prelacie? Suppose it were so; Must I not imbrace the truth, because I hate the Prelacie? What if Israel liue vnder the hatefull Aegyptians? What if
Ieremie liue vnder hatefull
Pashur? What if the Iewes liue vnder an hatefull Priesthood? What if the Disciples liue vnder hatefull Scribes; What are others persons to my profession? If I may be freely allowed to bee a true professed Christian, what care I vnder whose hands? But why is our Prelacie hatefull? Actiuely to you, or passiuely from you? In that it hates you? Would God you were not more your owne enemies: Or rather because you hate it? your hatred is neither any newes, nor paine: Who or what of ours is not hatefull to you? Our Churches, Bells, Clothes, Sacraments, Preachings, Prayers, Singings, Catechismes, Courts, Meetings, Burials, Marriages: It is maruell that our aire infects not: and that our heauen and earth (as
Optatus said of the Donatists) escape your hatred:
Iohns. praef. to his 7. Reas. Not the forwardest of our Preachers (as you terme them) haue found any other entertainment; no enemie could bee more spightfull; I spsake it to your shame. Rome it selfe in diuers controuersarie discourses hath bewrayed lesse gall, than Amsterdam: the better they are to others, you professe they are the worse:
Iohns. 7. Reas. p. 66.
Tit. 3.4. yea, would to God that of
Paul were not verified of you; hatefull, and hating one another: but we haue learned, that of wise Christians, not the measure of hatred should be respected,
Psal. 69.4. but the desert:
Dauid is hated for no cause,
Michaiab for a good cause: Your causes shall be examined in their places onwards. It were happy, if you hated your owne sinnes more, and peace lesse: our Prelacie would trouble you lesse, and you the Church.
SECTION XXVII.
FOr our deuised office of Ministery, you haue giuen it a true title.
The truth and warrant of the Ministery of England.
Mat. 28.19.
Ephes. 4.11.
[...]
Tim. 2.2. 1
Tim. 3.1.
Act. 13. 1
Tim. 3.6. 1
Tim. 5.22. 1
Tim. 2.15. Discourse of the trouble and Excom. at Amst. It was deuised indeed by our Sauiour, when he said, Goe teach all Nations and baptize; and performed in continuance, when he gaue some to be Pastors and Teachers; and not onely the Office of Ministery in generall, but ours whom he hath made able to teach, and desirous; separated vs for this cause to the work, vpon due triall admitted vs, ordained vs by imposition of hands of the Eldership, and praier, directed vs in the right diuision of the Word, committed a charge to vs; followed our Ministery with power, and blessed our labours with gracious successe, euen in the hearts of those whose tongues are thus busie to deny the truth of our vocation: Behold here the deuised Office of our Ministery: What can you deuise against this? Your Pastor, who (as his brother writes) hopes to worke wonders by his Logicall skill, hath killed vs with seuen Arguments, which he professeth the quintessence of his owne, and
Penries extractions, whereto your Doctor refers vs as absolute. I would it were not tedious, or worth a Readers labour to see them scanned. I protest before God and the world, I neuer read more grosse stuffe so boldly and peremptorily faced out: so full of Tautologies and beggings of the Question neuer to be yeelded. Let me mention the maine heads of them, and for the rest be sorry that I may not be endlesse.
To proue therefore that no communion may be had with the Ministery of the Church of England, he vses these seuen demonstrations. First,
Certaine Arg. against the Minist. of England. Counterpoys. Because it is not that Ministery which Christ gaue, and set in his Church. Secondly, Because it is the Ministery of Antichrists Apostasie. Thirdly, Because none can communicate with the Ministery of England, but he worships the Beasts image, and yeeldeth spirituall subiection to Antichrist. Fourthly, Because this Ministery deriueth not their power and function from Christ. Fiftly, Because they minister the holy things of God by vertue of a false spirituall calling. Sixtly, Because it is a strange Ministery, not appointed by God in his word. Seuenthly, Because it is not from Heauen but from Men.
Now I beseech thee Christian Reader, iudge whether that which this man was wont so oft to obiect to his brother (a crackt braine) appeare not plainely in this goodly equipage of reasons? For what is all this, but one and the same thing tumbled seuen times ouer? which yet with seuen thousand times babbling shall neuer be the more probable. That our Ministery was not giuen and set in the Church by Christ, but Antichristian, what is it else to be from men, to be strange, to be a false spirituall calling, not to be deriued from Christ, to worship the image of the Beast? So this great challenger that hath abridged his nine arguments to seuen, might aswell haue abridged his seuen to one a halfe. Here would haue beene as much substance, but lesse glory: As for his maine defence: First, we may not either haue, or expect now in the Church that Ministery which Christ set: Where are our Apostles, Prophets, Euangelists? If we must alwayes looke for the very same administration of the Church which our Sauiour left, why doe we not challenge these extraordinary functions? Doe wee not rather thinke, since it pleased him to begin with those Offices which should not continue, that herein he purposely intended to teach vs, that if we haue the same heauenly businesse done, we should not be curious in the circumstances of the persons? But for those ordinarie callings of Pastors and Doctors (intended to perpetuity) with what forehead can he deny them to be in our Church? How many haue we that conscionably teach and feed, or rather feed by teaching? Call them what you please, Superintendents (that is) Bishops, Prelates, Priests, Lecturers, Parsons, Vicars, &c. If they preach Christ truly, vpon true inward abilities, vpon a sufficient (if not perfect) outward vocation: such a one (let all histories witnes) for the substance, as hath bin euer in the Church since the Apostles times: they are Pastors and Doctors allowed by Christ:
Vbi res conuenit quis non verba contemnat? Aug. de Ord. n.
2. We stand not vpon circumstances and appendances of the fashions of ordination, manner of choice, attire, titles, maintenance: but if for substance these be not true Pastors and Doctors, Christ
[Page 576] had neuer any in his Church, since the Apostles left the earth. All the difficultie is in our outward calling: Let the Reader grant our graue and learned Bishops to be but Christians, and this will easily bee euinced lawfull, euen by their rules: For,
Brow. state of Christians. if with them euery Plebeian Artificer hath power to elect and ordaine by vertue of his Christian profession (the act of the worthiest standing for all) how can they deny this right to persons qualified (besides common graces) with wisdome, learning, experience, authority? Either their Bishopricke makes them no Christians (a position which of all the world besides this Sect, would be hissed at) or else their hands imposed are thus farre (by the rules of Separatists) effectuall. Now your best course is (like to an Hare that runnes backe from whence she was started) to flie to your first hold: No Church, therefore no Ministery: So now, not the Church hath deuised the Ministery, but the Ministery hath deuised the Church: I follow you not in that idle circle: Thence you haue beene hunted already: But now, since I haue giuen account of ours; I pray you tell me seriously, Who deuised your Office of Ministery? I dare say, not Christ, not his Apostles, not their Sucessors: What Church euer in the world can be produced (vnlesse in case of extremity for one turne) whose conspiring multitude made themselues Ministers at pleasure? what rule of Christ prescribes it? What reformed Church euer did, or doth practise it? what example warrants it? where haue the inferiours laid hands vpon their Superiours? What congregation of Christendome in all records afforded you the necessary patterne of an vnteaching Pastor, or an vnfeeding Teacher?
It is an old policy of the faulty, to complaine first: Certainly, there was neuer Popish Legend a more errand deuice of man than some parts of this Ministery of yours, so much gloried in for sincere correspondence to the first Institution.
SECTION XXVIII.
Confused Cō munion of the profane.
Perplexae sunt istae duae ciuitates in hoc seculo inuicem
(que) permixtae, d
[...]ec vltimo iudicio dirimantur. Aug. de Ciuit. Dei, l.
13.3. Eze.
18.20. Orig. Vnusquis
(que) propter proprium peccatū morietur, in propria iustitia viuet, &c.
Fr. Iohns.
Artic. against the Dutch and Fr. Answ. against Broughton.
Discouer. of Brown.
Troubles and excom. at. Amst.
Charact. praef. lidem in publico accusatores, in occulto rei, in semetipsos censores pariter & nocentes: Dānant f
[...]ris quod intus operantur.YOur scornfull exception at the confused communion of the profane multitude, sauours strong of Pharisee, who thought it sinne to conuerse
(cum terrae filijs) the base vulgar, and whose very Phylacteries did say, Touch me not, for I am cleaner than thou, This multitude is profane (you say) and this communion confused: If some be profane, yet not all; for then could be no confusion in the mixture: If some be not profane, why doe you not loue them as much as you hate the other? If all maine truths be taught amongst some godly, some profane; why will you more shun those profane, then cleaue to those Truths, and those godly? If you haue duly admonished him, & detested & bewailed his sin; what is another mans profanenesse to you? If profanenes be not punished, or confusion be tollerated, it is their sin, whom it concerneth to redresse them: If the Officers sin, must we run from the Church? It is a famous & pregnant protestation of God by
Ezekiel: The righteousnes of the righteous shall be vpon him, and the wickednes of the wicked shall be vpon himselfe. And if the Fathers sowre Grapes cannot hurt the childrens teeth, how much lesse shall the neighbours? But whither will you runne from this Communion of the profane? The same fault you finde with the
Dutch and
French; yea, in your owne. How well haue you auoyded it in your separation, let M.
White, George Iohnson, Master
Smith be sufficient witnesses, whose plentifull reports of your known vncleanesses, smothered mischiefes, malicious proceedings, corrupt packings, communicating with knowne offenders, bolstering of sinnes, and willing conniuences, as they are shamefull to relate, so might well haue stopt your mouth from excepting at our confused Communion of the profane.
SEP.
Shall some generall Truths (yea, though few of them in the particulars may be soundly practised) sweeten and sanctifie the other Errours? Doth not one Heresie make an Heretike?
[Page 577] and doth not a little Leuen, whether in doctrine or manners, leauen the whole lumpe?
1 Cor. 5.6, Gal. 5.9. Hag. 2.13. If Antichrist held not many truths, wherewith should he cou
[...]tenance so many forgeries, or how could his worke bee a mysterie of iniquitie? which in
Rome is more grosse and palpable; but in
England spunne with a finer threede, and so more hardly discouered. But tow
[...]de no further in vniuersalities; we will take a little time to examine such particulars, as you your selfe haue picked out for your most aduantage, to see whether you bee so cleare of
Babels Towers in your owne euidence, as you beare the world in hand.
SECTION XXIX.
HOw many and grieuous errors are mingled with our Truths, shall appeare sufficiently in the sequell; If any want, let it bee the fault of the accuser.
Our Errors intermingled with Truth. It is enough for the Church of Amsterdam to haue no errors. But ours are grieuous: Name them, that our shame may be sequell to your griefe: So many they are,
Barr.
Confer. with M. Hutchins.
&c. and D. Andr. & so grieuous, that your Martyr, when he was vrged to instance, could finde none but our opinion concerning Christs descent into Hell; & except he had ouer-reached, not that. Call you our Doctrines some generall truths? Looke into our Confessions, Apologies, Articles, and compare them with any, with all other Churches; and if you finde a more particular, sound, Christian, absolute profession of all fundamentall truths in any Church, since Christ ascended into Heauen, renounce vs as you do, & we will separate vnto you: But these truths are not soundly practised: Let your Pastor teach you,
Inquir. into
M. W
[...]te, p. 35.
Mat. 13.33. that if errors of practise should bee stood vpon, there could bee no true Church vpon earth: Pull out your owne beame first: wee willingly yeeld this to bee one of your truths, that no truth can sanctifie error: That one heresie makes an Heretike: but learne withall, that euery error doth not pollute all truths: That rhere is hay and stubble, which may burne, yet both the foundation stand, and the builder bee saued: Such is ours at the worst, why doe you condemne where God will saue? No Scripture is more worne with your Tongues and Pens, than that of the Leauen, 1
Cor. 5.6. If you would compare Christs Leauen with Pauls, you should satisfie your selfe. Christ sayes,
The Kingdome of Heauen is as Leauen; Paul sayes,
A grosse sinne is Leauen: Both
leauens the whole lumpe: neither may be taken precisely, but in resemblance: not of equalitie,
M. Bredwell. (as he said well) but of qualitie: For notwithstanding
the Leauen of the Kingdome, some part you grant is vnsanctified; So notwithstanding
the Leauen of sinne, some (which haue striuen against it to their vtmost) are not sowred: The leauening in both places must extend onely to whom it is extended: the subiects of regeneration in the one; the partners of sinne in the other: So our Sauiour saith,
Yee are the salt of the earth; Yet too much of the earth is vnseasoned: The truth of the effect must bee regarded in these speeches, not the quantitie: It was enough for S.
Paul to shew them by this similitude, that grosse sinnes where they are tolerated, haue a power to infect others: whether it be (as
Hierome interprets it) by ill example, or by procurement of iudgements:
Hierom. In hoc ignoratis, quia malo exemplo possunt plurimi interire? Sed & pe
[...] vntus delictū in omn
[...] populū Iudaeorum
[...]am Dei legimus advenisse. and therevpon the incestuous must bee cast out: All this tends to the excommunicating of the euill, not to the separating of the good: Did euer
Paul say, If the incestuous bee not cast out, separate from the Church? Shew vs this, and we are yours: Else it is a shame for you, that you are not ours: If Antichrist hold many truths▪ and wee but many, wee must needs be proud of your praises: We hold all his truths, and haue shewed you, how we hate all his forgeries, no lesse than you hate vs: Yet the mysterie of iniquitie is still spun in the Church of England; but with a finer threed: So fine, that the very eyes of your malice cannot see it; yet none of our least Motes haue escaped you: Thanks bee to our good God,
1
Tim. 3.16. we haue the great mysterie of godlinesse so fairely and happily spun amongst vs, as all, but you, blesse God with vs, and for vs: As soone shall yee finde Charitie and Peace in your English Church, as heresie in our Church of England.
SEP.
Where (say you) are those proud Towers of their vniuersall Hierarchie? One in
Lambeth, another in
Fulham: and wheresoeuer a Pontificall Prelate is, or his Chancellor, Commissarie, or other Subordinate, there is a Tower of
Babel vnruinated. To this and I desire to know of you, whether the office of Archbishops, Bishops, and the rest of that ranke, were not parts of that accursed Hierarchie in Queene
MARIES dayes, and members of that Man of sin? If they were then as shoulders & armes vnder that head the Pope, and ouer the inferiour members; and haue now the same Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction deriued and continued vpon them, whereof they were possessed in the time of Popery (as it is plaine they haue by the first Parliament of Queene
ELIzABETH) why are they not still members of that bodie, though the head the Pope be cut off?
SECTION XXX.
Whether our Prelacie be Antichristian. Seuen Argu. first Answ. Counterpoys.TO the particular instances: I aske where are the proud Towers of their Vniuersall Hierarchie? You answer roundly: One in
Lambeth, another in
Fulham, &c. What Vniuersall? Did euer any of our Prelates challenge all the World as his Diocesse? Is this simplicitie, or malice? If your Pastor tell vs, that as well a World as a Prouince, Let me returne it; If hee may be Pastor ouer a Parlour-full: Why not of a Citie? And if of a Citie, why not of a Nation? But these you will proue vnruinated Towers of that Babel: You aske therefore whether the Office of Archbishops, Bishops, and the rest of that ranke, were not in Queene MARIES dayes, parts of that accursed Hierarchie, and members of that Man of sinne. Doubtlesse they were: Who can denie it? But now (say you) they haue the same Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction continued: This is your miserable Sophistrie: Those Popish Archbishops, Bishops, and Clergie were members of Antichrist: not as Church-Gouernours, but as Popish; while they swore subiection to him, while they defended him, whiles they worship
[...] him aboue all that is called God, and extorted this homage from others, how could they be other but limmes of that Man of sinne? shall others therefore which defie him, resist, trample vpon him, spend their liues and labours in oppugnation of him, bee necessarily in the same case, because in the same roome? Let mee helpe your Anabaptists with a sound Argument: The Princes, Peeres, and Magistrates of the Land in Queene MARIES dayes were shoulders and armes of Antichrist; their calling is still the same; therefore now they are such: Your Master
Smith vpon no other ground, disclaymeth Infants Baptisme,
Character of the Beast against
R. Clifton. crying out that this is the maine relique of Antichristianisme. But see how like a wise Master you confute your selfe: They are still members of the bodie, though the head (the Pope) be cut off: The head is Antichrist, therefore the bodie without the head is no part of Antichrist: He that is without the head Christ, is no member of Christ: so contrarily; I heare you say, the very Iurisdiction and Office is here Antichristian, not the abuse: What? in them, and not in all Bishops since, and in the Apostles times? Alas, who are you that you should oppose all Churches and times? Ignorance of Church-storie, and not distinguishing betwixt substances and appendances, personall abuses, and callings, hath led you to this errour: Yet since you haue reckoned vp so many Popes, let mee helpe you with more: Was there not one in Lambeth, when Doctor
Cranmer was there? One in Fulham, when
Ridley was there? One in Worcester, when
Latimer was there? One at Winchester, when
Philpot was there? Wee will goe higher;
Arch Deacon. Was not
Hilarius at Arles,
Paulinus at Nola,
Primasius at Vtica,
Eucherius at Lyons,
Cyril at Alexandria,
Chrysostome at Constantinople,
Augustine at Hippo,
Ambrose at Millame?
Beatissimus Papa passim in Epist. Ignat. ad Trallian. Euseb. l
3. Ex Euseb. Hier. Catalog. Scrip. Epaphanio, &c. What should I be infinite? Was not
Cyprian at Carthage,
Euodius, and after him
Ignatius in Saint
Iohns time at Antioch,
Polycarpus at Smyrna,
Philip at Caesarea,
Iames and
Simeon and
Cleophas at Hierusalem, and (by much consent of Antiquitie)
Titus in Creet,
Timothie at Ephesus,
Marke at Alexandria: yea, to be short, was there not euery where in all Ages, an allowed Superioritie of Church-Gouernours vnder this title? Looke into the frequent Subscriptions of all Councels, and their Canons:
[Page 579] Looke into the Registers of all times, and finde your selfe answered: Let Reuerend
Caluin be our Aduocate: I would desire no other words to confute you, but his:
Caluin. Instit. l.
4. Hieron. Hu
[...]gric. Heming. Potest. Eccles. clas.
3. cap.
10.
Hinc Ecclesia p
[...]rior se
[...]ta tē pera Apostolorū, fecit alios Patriar
[...], quorum erat curate vt Ep scopi cui
[...]s
(que) Dioceseosrite eligerentur, vt suū munus Episcopi singuli probe administrarem, &c. Arist. P
[...]l.
7. Potentia diuitiarum & pe
[...]pertatis homilitas vel humiliorem vel inferi
[...]rem Episcop
[...]m non facit. Hieron. Euagr. Hee shall tell you that euen in the Primitiue Church, the Presbyters chose one out of their number in euery Citie, whom they titled their Bishop, lest dissension should arise from equalitie. Let
Hemingius teach you that this was the practise of the purest Church: Thus it was euer; and if Princes haue pleased to annex either large maintenances, or stiles of higher dignitie, and respect vnto these, doe their additions annihilate them? Hath their double honour made voyd their callings? Why, more than extreme needinesse? If
Aristotle would not allow a Priest to be a Tradesman, yet
Paul could yeeld to homely Tent-making: if your Elders grow rich or noble, doe they cease to be, or begin to be vnlawfull? But in how many Volumes hath this point beene fully discussed? I lift not to gleane after their full carts.
SEP.
And so doe all the Reformed Churches in the World (of whose testimonie you boast so loud) renounce the Prelacie of
England, as part of that
Pseudo-Clergie, and Antichristian Hierarchie deriued from
Rome.
SECTION XXXI.
FRom your owne Verdict you descend to the testimonies of all Reformed Churches: I blush to see so wilfull a slander fall from the pen of a Christian.
The iudgment and practise of other reformed Churches. That all Reformed Churches renounce our Prelacie as Antichristian, what one hath done it? Yea, what one forraine Diuine of note, hath not giuen to our Clergie the right hand of Fellowship? so farre is it from this, that
I. Alasco was the allowed Bishop of our first Reformed strangers in this Land; so far, that when your Doctor found himselfe vrged (by
M. Spr.) with a cloud of witnesses for our Church and Ministerie, as
Bucer, Martyr, Fagius, Alasco, Caluin, Beza, Bullinger, Gualter, Simler, Zanchius, Iunius, Rollocus, and others,
Answ. Counterpoys. third Consid.
Psal. 20.7. he had nothing to say for himselfe, but, Though you come against vs with Horse-men and Chariots, yet we will remember the name of the Lord our God; and turnes it off with the accusation of a Popish plea, and reference to the practise of the Reformed: And if therefore they haue so renounced it, because their practise receiues it not; Why, like a true Make-bate doe you not say, that our Churches haue so renounced their Gouernment? These sisters haue learned to differ, and yet to loue and reuerence each other: and in these cases to enioy their owne formes, without prescription of necessitie or censure. Let Reuerend
Beza be the Trumpet of all the rest, who tells you that the Reformed English Churches continue, vpheld by the authoritie of Bishops, & Archbishops,
Bez. de Ministr. Euang. cap.
18. Cited also by D. D wn. p.
29. Hemingius. Iudicat caeteros Ministros suis Episcopis obtemperare debere. Potest. Eccl. c.
10. that they haue had men of that Ranke, both famous Martyrs, and worthy Pastors and Doctors: and lastly, congratulates this blessing to our Church: or let
Hemingius tell you the iudgement of the D
[...]nish Church:
Iudicat caeteros Ministros, &c. it iudgeth, saith he, that other Ministers should obey their Bishops in all things, which make to the edification of the Church, &c. But what doe I oppose any to his name-lesse
All? his owne silence confutes him enough in my silence.
SEP.
It seemes, the sacred (so called) Synod assumeth little lesse vnto her selfe in her determinations: otherwise, how durst shee decree so absolutely, as shee doth touching things reputed indifferent,
viz. that all men in all places must submit vnto them without exception, or limitation? Except shee could infallibly determine, that these her Ceremonies thus absolutely imposed, should edifie all men at all times, how durst shee thus impose them? To exact obedience in and vnto them, whether they offend or offend not, whether they edifie or destroy, were intolerable presumption.
SECTION XXXII.
Our Synods determination of things indiffere t. Article 11.THERE was neuer a more idle and beggerly cauill than your next: your Christian Reader must needs think you hard driuen for quarrels, when you are faine to fetch the Popes infallibility out of our Synod, whose flat Decree it was of olde: That euen generall Councels may erre, and haue erred. But wherein doth our sacred Synod assume this infallibilitie, in her determinations? Wherefore is a Synod, if not to determine? But of things reputed indifferent? What else are subiect to the constitutions of men? Good and euill are either directly, or by necessarie sequell ordred by God: these are aboue humane power: What haue men to doe, if not with things indifferent? All necessary things are determined by God, indifferent by men from God,
Obligatio sine
[...] coertione nulla. Reg. Iur. Non iura dicenda sunt, &c. de Ciuit. l. b.
19 Answ. to the Admon. p. 279. cited also by D. Sparkes, p.
14 which are as so many particulars, extracts from the generals of God: These things (saith learned
Caluin) are indifferent, and in the power of the Church: Either you must allow the Church this, or nothing. But these decrees are absolute, what lawes can be without a command? The Law that tyes not is no Law: No more than that (saith
Austen) which ties vs to euill. But for all men, and all times? How for all? For none (I hope) but our owne. And why not for them? but without exception and limitation: Doe not thus wrong our Church: our late Arch-bishop (if it were not piacular for you to read ought of his) could haue taught you in his publike writings, these fiue limitations of inioyned ceremonies: First, that they be not against the Word of God: Secondly, that Iustification or Remission of sinnes be not attributed to them: Thirdly, That the Church bee not troubled with their multitude:
Aug. Epist.
86. In his enim rebus, de quibus nihil cert
[...] statui
[...] Scriptura Diuina, mos populi Dei vel instituta matorum pro lege tu
[...]da sunt. Liuius Dcca. l.
4 Nulla lex s
[...]tis
[...]moda omnibus est, id modo quaerit
[...], si mator
[...] part
[...] & in su
[...]ma pro
[...]est. Fourthly, that they be not decreed as necessarie, and not to be changed: And lastly, that men be not so tied to them, but that by occasion they may bee omitted, so it be without offence and contempt; you see our limits: but your feare is in this last, contrary to his. He stands vpon offence in omitting, you in vsing: As if it were a iust offence to displease a beholder, no offence to displease and violate authoritie: What Law could euer be made to offend none? Wise
Cato might haue taught you this, in
Liuie, that no Law can bee commodious to all: Those lips which preserue knowledge, must impart so much of it to their hearers, as to preuent their offence: Neither must Law-giuers euer foresee what constructions will be of their Lawes, but what ought to bee: Those things which your Consistory imposes, may you keepe them if you list? Is not the willing neglect of your owne Parlour-Decrees punished with Excommunication? And now what is all this to infallibility? The sacred Synod determines these indifferent Rites, for decencie and comlinesse to be vsed of those whom it concernes, therefore it arrogates to it selfe infallibilitie: A conclusion fit for a Separatist.
Cum consedissent sancti &
[...]cligiosi Episcopi.
[...]in. Tom.
1. p.
239. Sancta Synod. C
[...]rthagi:
4. sub Anastasio,
553. Sancta & Pacifica Synod. Antiochen.
1. p.
[...]20. Sancta Dei & Apostolica Synodus.
413. Peruenit ad Sanctam Synodum. Can. Nic.
18 309. Sancta Synod. Laod
[...]cco
[...],
288.You stumble at the Title of Sacred: euery straw lies in your way; your
Calepine could haue taught you, that Houses, Castles, Religious businesses, old age it selfe, haue this stile giuen them: And
Virgil (vittasque resoluit Sacrati capitis:) no Epithere is more ordinary to Councells and Synods: The reason whereof may be fetched from that Inscription of the Elibertine Synod; of those nineteene Bishops is said: When the holy and Religious Bishops were set: How few Councels haue not had this Title? To omit the late; The Holy Synod of
Carthage, vnder
Anastasius: The Holy and peaceable Synod at
Antioch: The Holy Synod of God, and Apostolicall, at
Rome vnder
Iulius. The Holy and great Synod at
Nice: and not to bee endlesse: The Holy Synod of
Laodicea (though but prouinciall.) What doe these Idle exceptions argue but want of greater?
SEP.
To let passe your Ecclesiasticall Consistories, wherein sinnes and absolutions from them are as veniall and saleable as at
Rome; Is it not a Law of the Eternall God, that the Ministers of the Gospell; the Bishops or Elders should bee apt and able to teach?
1 Timoth. 3.2. Titus 1.9. and is it not their grieuous sinne to bee vnapt hereunto?
Esa. 56.10, 11. And yet who
[Page 579] knoweth not that the Patrons amongst you present, that the Bishops institute, the Archdeacons induct, the Churches receiue, and the Lawes both Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall allow and iustifie Ministers vnapt and vnable to teach? Is it not a Law of the Eternall God, that the Elders should feed the stock ouer which they are set, labouring amongst them in the Word and Doctrine?
Acts 20.28. 1 Pet. 5.1, 2. And is it not sin to omit this duty? Plead not for
Baall. Your Dispensations for Non-residencie and Pluralities of Benefices, as for two, three, or more; yea
tot quot, as many as a man will haue or can get, are so many Dispensations with the Lawes of God, and sinnes of men. These things are too impious to bee defended, and too manifest to bee denied.
SECTION XXXIII.
SOME great men, when they haue done ill, out-face their shame with enacting Lawes to make their sins lawfull. While you thus charge our practise,
Sinnes fold in our Courts. you bewray your owne: Who hauing separated from Gods Church, deuise slanders to colour your sinne: Wee must bee shamfull, that you may bee innocent: You load our Ecclesiasticall Consistories with a shamelesse reproach: Farre bee it from vs to iustifie any mans personall sinnes; yet it is safer sinning to the better part: Fie on these odious comparisons: sinnes as saleable as at
Rome? Who knowes not that to be the Mar
[...] of all the World? Periuries, Murders, Treasons are there bought and sold▪ when euer in ours? The Popes coffers can easily confute you alone: What tell you vs of these? let me tell you: Mony is as fit an aduocate in a Consistorie, as fauour or malice: These, some of yours haue complained of, as bitterly as you of ours: As if we liked the abuses in Courts:
G. Iohns. Trouble and Excommunications at
Amsterdam. as if corrupt executions of wholesom Lawes must bee imputed to the Church, whose wrongs they are. No lesse hainous, nor more true in that which followeth. True Elders (not yours) should be indeed,
[...] This wee call for as vehemently (not so tumultuously) as yourselues.
That they should feed their Flockes with Word and Doctrine, we require more than you: That Patrons present, Bishops institute, Arch-Deacons induct some, which are unable, we grant and bewaile. But that our Church-Lawes iustifie them, wee deny, and you slander: For our Law (if you know not) requires, that euery one to bee admitted to the Ministery, should vnderstand the Articles of Religion,
Can. 34. not only as they are compendiously set downe in the Creed, but as they are at large in our Booke of Articles, neither vnderstand them onely, but be able to proue them sufficiently out of the Scripture, and that not in English onely, but in Latine also: This competencie would proue him (for knowledge)
[...]: If this bee not performed, blame the persons, cleere the Law. Profound Master
Hooker tels you, that both Arguments from light of Nature, Lawes, and Statutes of Scripture, the Canons that are taken out of ancient Synods,
M.
Hookers fift booke of
Ecclesiasticall Politic. Pag. 26.3. the Decrees and Constitutions of sincerest times, the sentences of all antiquity, and in a word, euery mans full consent and conscience, is against ignorance in them that haue charge and cure of soules. And in the same booke; Did any thing more aggrauate the crime of
Ieroboams Apostasie, than that he chose to haue his Clergie the scumme and refuse of his whole Land? Let no man spare to tell it them,
D. D
[...]wn
[...]m
of the office and dignitie of the Ministery. Counterpoys. pag. 179. Dist.
34. Can. Lector. Papa potest contra Apostolum dispensare, & Caus.
25. q.
1. Can. sunt quidā Dispensat. in Euangelio, &c. De concess. praebend. Tit.
8. Ca. they are not faithfull towards God, that burden wilfully his Church, with such swarmes of vnworthy Creatures: Neither is it long, since a zealous and learned Sermon dedicated to our present Lord Archbishop by his owne Chaplaine, hath no lesse taxed this abuse, whether of insufficiencie, or negligence (though with more discretion) than can bee expected from your malicious Pen. Learne henceforth not to diffuse crimes to the innocent.
For the rest: your
Baal, in our Dispensations for Pluralities, would thus plead for himselfe: First, he would bid you learne of your Doctor to distinguish of sinnes: sinnes (saith hee) are either controuertible, or manifest: if controuertible or doubtfull, men ought to beare one with anothers different iudgement; if they doe not, &c. they sinne: such is this: if some be resolued, others doubt; and in whole Volumes plead, whether conuenience, or necessity: how could your charitie compare these with sinnes euicted?
[Page 380] Secondly,
Prop
[...]suit secundum plenitudirem p
[...]testatis de iure pos
[...]mus supra iu
[...] d spensare, & Gloss
[...] p
[...]ulo infra, Papa cōtra Apostolum dispensat &c. Sū. confer. p.
52. M. W
[...]ites disco. hee would tell you that these Dispensations are intended and directed, not against the offence of God, but the danger of Humane Lawes: not securing from sinne: but from losse: But, for both these points of Non-residence and insufficiencie, if you sought▪ not rather strife than satisfaction; his Maiesties Speech in the Conference at
Hampton Court, might haue stayed the course of your quarrellous Pen: No reasonable minde, but would rest in that Gracious and royall determination. Lastly, Why looke you not to your owne Elders at home? euen your handfull hath not auoided this crime of Non-residency: What wonder is it, if our world of men haue not escaped?
SEP.
You are wiser, and I hope honester than thus to attempt, though that receiued Maxime amongst you (No Ceremony, no Bishop; no Bishop, no King) sauours too strongly of that Weed. But what though you be loyall to earthly Kings and their Crownes and Kingdomes, yet if you bee Trayt
[...] and Rebels agains the King of his Church Iesus Christ, and the Scepter of his Kingdome, not suffering him by his Lawes and officers to reigne ouer you, but in stead of them doe st
[...]p to Antichrist in his offices and Ordinances; shall your loyaltie towards men, excuse your Treasons against the Lord? though you now cry neuer folowd, Wee haue no King but
Caesar, Iohn. 19.15, yet is there another King, one Iesus, which shall returne and passe a heauy doome vpon the Rebellion,
Luke 19.27. These enemies which would not haue me reigne ouer them, bring them and slay them before me.
SECTION XXXIIII.
Our Loyaltie to Princes cleered, theirs questioned.
Bar. against
Gyfford. Inconst. of
Brown. p. 113.YOv that confesse our wisedome and honesty, must now plead for your owne: your hope is not more of vs; than our feare of you. To depose Kings, & dispose Kingdomes is a proud worke: you want power, but what is our will? For Excommunication it is cleere enough: While you fully hold that euery priuate man hath as much power in this censure, as the Pastor; and that Princes must be equally subiect with them to these their censures. Let any man now deuise if the
Brownists could haue a King, how that King could stand one day vnexcommunicated? Or if this censure meddle onely with his soule, not with his Scepter: How more than credible is it, that some of your Assemblies in Queene ELIzABETHS dayes concluded,
Ibid. that shee was not (euen in our sense) Supreme Head of the Church, neither had authority to make Lawes Ecclesiasticall in the Church?
Inquiry into
Th. White. It is well if you will disclaime it: But you know your receiued position; That no one Church is Superiour to other: No authoritie therefore can reuerse this Decree; your will may doe it: yea, what better than Rebellion appears in your next clause? While you accuse our Loyaltie to an earthly King, as treasonable to the King of the Church, Christ Iesus; If our Loyalty be a sinne, where is yours? If we be Traytors in our obedience: what doe you make of him that commands it?
Pag. 36. Whether you would haue vs each man to play the
Rex, and erect a new Gouernment; or whether you accuse vs as Rebels to Christ in obeying the old: GOD blesse King IAMES from such Subiects. But whose is that so vnsauourie weed; No Bishop, no King? Know you whom you accuse? let me shew you your Aduersarie; it is King IAMES himselfe in his
Hampton Conference: is there not now suspition in the word? surely you had cause to feare that the King would proue no good subiect: Belike, not to Christ: What doe you else in the next but proclaime his opposition to the King of Kings? or ours in not opposing his?
Esa. 26.13. As if we might say with the Israelites, O Lord our God, other Lords besides thee haue ruled vs: If we would admit each of your Elders to be so many Kings in the Church, wee should stoope vnder Christs Ordinances: Shew vs your Commission, and let it appeare, whether we be Enemies, or you Vsurpers; Alas, you both refuse the rule of this true Deputie, and set vp false; Let this fearefull doome of Christ light where it is most due:
Euen so let thine enemies perish, O Lord.
SEP.
Not to speake of the errour of vniuersall Grace, and consequently of Free-will, that groweth on
[...]pace amongst you. what doe you else but put in for a part with God inconuersion? though not through freedome of will, yet in a deuised Ministery▪ the meanes of conuersion: it being the Lords peculiar as well to appoint the outward Ministery of conuersion, as to giue the inward grace.
SECTION XXXV.
GOe on to slander: Euen that which you say, you will not speake, you do speake with much spight and no truth:
Errors of Free-will, &c. fained vpon the Church of England. What hath our Church to doe with errors of vniuersall grace or Free-will? Errors which her Articles doe flatly oppose what shamelesnesse is this? Is shee guilty euen of that which shee condemnes? If some few priuate iudgements shall conceiue, or bring forth an error, shall the whole Church doe penance? Would God that wicked and hereticall Anabaptisme, did not more grow vpon you than those errours vpon vs: you had more neede to defend, than accuse: But see (Christian Reader) how this man draggs in crimes vpon vs, as
Cacus did his
[...] We doe (forsooth) part stakes with God in our conuersion▪ wherein? in a deuised Ministerie: the meanes of conuersion; well fetcht about: There may bee a Ministerie, without a conuersion; and
(è conuerso) There may be a conuersion without a Ministery: Where now are the stakes parted?
1
Cor. 3.9.
[...]. yet thus we part stakes (with the Apostle) that wee are Gods Fellow-labourers in this great worke: He hath separated vs to it, and ioyned vs with him in it; it is he (as we haue proued) that hath deuised our Ministerie: yea, your selfe shall proue it: it is his peculiar to appoint the outward Ministery, that giues the inward grace. But hath not God giuen inward grace, by our outward Ministerie? Your hearts shall be our witnesses: What wil follow therefore, but that our Ministerie is his peculiar appointment?
SEP.
Where (say you) are those rotten heaps of Transubstantiating of bread? And where (say I) le
[...]ned you your deuout kneeling to, or before the bread, but from that error of Transubstantiation? Yea, what lesse can it insinuate, than either that, or some other the like idolatrous conceit? If there were not some thing more in the Bread and Wine than in the water at Baptisme, or in the Word read or pre
[...]ed, Why should such solemne kneeling bee so seuerely pressed at that
[...] rather than vpon the other occasions? And well and truely haue your owne men affirmed that it were farre lesse sinne, and appearance of an Idolatrie that is nothing so grosse, to tye men in their Prayers, to kneele before a Crucifixe, than before the Bread and Wine: and the reason followeth, for that, Papists commit an Idolatrie far more grosse and odious in worshipping the Bread▪ than in worshipping any other of their Images or Idols whatsoeuer. Apol. of the
[...] of
[...] Dioc. part.
1. pag.
66.
SECTION XXXVI.
OVR kneeling you deriue (like a good Herald) from the errour of Transubstantiation: but to set downe the descent of this pedigree, will trouble you:
Kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper.
De Consecr. d. 2.
Ego Bereng. Apol. we doe vtterly denie it, and challenge your proofe. How new a fiction Transubstantiation is, appeares out of
Berengaries Recantation to Pope
Nicholas: The error was then so young, it had not learned to speake; shew vs the same noueltie in our kneeling: Till of
[...], ble
[...]
[...]eld not the Bread to bee God; of olde, they haue held it sa
[...]ed: This is the gesture of reuerence in our Prayer at the receit, as Master
Burgesse w
[...]ll interpreted it, not of idolatrous adoration of the Bread. This was most-what in the eleuation: the abolishing whereof cleares vs of this imputation▪ you know wee
[Page 582] hate this conceit, why doe you thus force wrongs vpon the innocent? Neither are we alone in this vse: The Church of
Bohemy allowes and practises it: and why is this error lesse palpable in the wafers of
Geneua? If the King should offer vs his hand to kisse, wee take it vpon our knees: how much more when the King of Heauen giues vs his Sonne in these Pledges? But if there were not somthing more than iust reuerence, why doe we solemnely kneele at the Communion, not at Baptisme? Can you finde no difference? In this (besides that there is both a more liuely and feeling signification of the thing represented) we are the parties, but in the other witnesses: This therefore I dare boldly say, that if your partner M.
Smith should euer (which God forbid) perswade you to rebaptize, your fittest gesture (or any others at full age) would be to receiue that Sacramentall water, kneeling: How glad you are to take all scraps, that fall from any of ours for your aduantage? Would to God this obseruation of your malicious gathering would make all our reuerend Brethren wary of their censures: Surely, no idolatry can be worse than that Popish
[...]. The Bread, and the Crucifix striue for the higher place: if we should therefore be so tied to kneele before the Bread, as they are tied to kneele before the Crucifix, their sentence were iust. They adore the Crucifix, not we the Bread: they pray to the Crucifix, not we to the Bread: they direct their deuotions (at the best) by the Crucifix to their Sauiour, we doe not so by the Bread, we kneele no more to the Bread, than to the Pulpit when we ioyne our praiers with the Ministers: But our quarrell is not with them; you that can approue their iudgements in dislike, might learne to follow them in approbation, and peaceable Communion with the Church: if there be a galled place, you will be sure to light vpon that. Your charity is good; whatsoeuer your wisdome be?
SEP.
To let passe your deuout kneeling vnto your Ordinary when you take the Oath of Canonicall obedience, or receiue absolution at his hands, which (as the maine actions are religious) must needs be religious adoration, what is the adoring of your truly humane (though called Diuine) Seruice booke in and by which you worship God, at the Papists doe by their Images? If the Lord Iesus in his Testament haue not commanded any such Booke, it is accursed and abominable: if you thinke he haue; shew vs the place where, that we may know it with you; or manifest vnto vs that euer the Apostles vsed themselues; or commended to the Churches after them any such Seruice booke. Was not the Lord in the Apostles time, and Apostolike Churches, purely and perfectly worshipped; when the Officers of the Church in their ministration manifested the spirit of prayer which they had receiued according to the present necessities and occasions of the Church, before the least p
[...]rcell of this pacchery came into the World? And might not the Lord now be also purely and perfectly worshipped; though this printed image; with the painted and c
[...]ed
[...] ges; were sent backe to
Rome; yea, or cast to Hell, from whence both they and it came? Sp
[...]ke in your selfe; might not the Lord be intirely worshipped with pure and holy worship, though
[...] other Booke but the holy Scriptures were brought into the Church? If yes (as who can deny
[...], that knowes what the worship of God meaneth) what then doth your Seruice booke there? The Word of God is perfect and admitteth of none addition. Cursed be he that addeth to the Word of the Lord, and cursed be that which is added, and so he your great idoll the Communion booke, though like
Nabuchadnezzars Image some part of the matter be Gold and Siluer, which is also so much the more detestable, by how much it is the more highly aduanced amongst you.
SECTION XXXVII.
Whether our Ordinary and Seruice booke be made Idols by vs.YEt
[...] Idolatry? And which is more, New, and strange▪ such (I dare say) as will n
[...]er be found in the two
[...] Commandements. Behold, here two now Idols, Our Ordinary, and our Seruice booke, a speaking Idoll, and a written Idoll.
Calecute hath
[...]ne-strange Deitie the Deuill,
Siberia many, whose people worship euery day what they see first.
Rome hath many merry Saints: but Saint
[Page 585] Ordinary, and Saint Seruice booke were neuer heard of till your Canonization. In earnest, doe you thinke we make our Ordinary an idoll? What else? you kneele deuoutly to him when you receiue either the Oath or Absolution. This must needs be religious adoration: is there no remedy? You haue twice kneeled to our Vice-Chancellor, when you were admitted to your degree; you haue oft kneeled to your Parents, and Godfathers to receiue a blessing, did you make Idols of them? the party to be ordained, kneeles vnder the hand of the Presbyterie: doth he religiously adore them? Of old they were wont to kisse the hands of their Bishops, so they did to Baal: God and our Superiours haue had euer one and the same outward gesture: Though here,
Paulus in vita Ambros. not the Agent is so much regarded, as the Action: if your Ordinary would haue suffered you to haue done this peece of Idolatry, you had neuer separated.
But the true God Bel, and Dragon of England is the humane-Diuine-Seruice-Booke: Let vs see what ashes or lumpes of pitch this
Daniel brings: We worship God in, and by it, as Papists doe by their Images: Indeed, we worship God in, and by prayers contained in it: Why should we not? Tell me, why is it more Idolatry for a man to worship God in, and by a prayer read, or got by heart, than by a prayer conceiued? I vtter both, they are both mine: if the heart speake them both, feelingly and deuoutly, where lies the Idoll? In a conceiued prayer, is it not possible for a mans thought to stray from his tongue? in a prayer learned by heart, or read, is it not possible for the heart to ioyne with the tongue? If I pray therefore in spirit, and heartily vtter my desires to God, whether in mine owne words, or borrowed (and so made mine) what is the offence? But (say you) if the Lord Iesus in his Testament haue not commanded any such Booke, it is accursed and abominable: But say I, if the Lord Iesus hath not any where forbidden such a Booke, it is not accursed nor abominable: Shew vs the place where, that we may know it with you: Nay, but I must shew you where the Apostles vsed any such Seruice booke: shew you mee, where the Apostles baptized in a Basin: or where they receiued women to the Lords table: (for your
[...], 1
Cor. 11.
Passag. twixt Caluin
and Smith. Egyptij vbi lautè epulati sunt, post coe
[...]a
[...]d s
[...]cuint. Socr
[...].
5. c.
22. will not serue) shew me that the Bible was distinguisht into Chapters and Verses in the Apostles time: shew me that they euer celebrated the Sacrament of the Supper at any other time than euening, as your Anabaptists now doe: shew mee that they vsed one prayer before their Sermons alwaies, another after; that they preached euer vpon a Text: where they preached ouer a Table: or lastly, shew mee where the Apostles vsed that prayer which you made before your last prophecie; and a thousand such circumstances. What an idle plea is this from the Apostolike times?
Platin. initio. And if I should tell you that Saint
Peter celebrated with the Lords Prayer, you will not beleeue it: yet you know the Historie. But let the Reader know that your quarrel is not against the matter, but against the Booke; not as they are prayers, but as stinted, or prescribed: Wherein all the world besides your selues are Idolaters: Behold, all Churches that were, or are, are partners with vs in this crime. Oh idolatrous Geneua, and all French, Scottish, Danish, Dutch Churches! All which both haue their set Prayers with vs, and approue them.
Caluin Epist. ad Protest. Angl. Epist.
87.
Quod ad formulam, &c. As concerning a forme of Prayers and Rites Ecclesiasticall (saith Reuerend
Caluin) I doe greatly allow that it should be set and certaine, from which it should not be lawfull for Pastors in their function to depart. Iudge now of the spirit of these bold Controlers, that dare thus condemne all Gods Churches through the world, as idolatrous. But since you call for Apostolike examples; did not the Apostle
Paul vse one set forme of apprecations, of benedictions? What were these but lesser Praiers? The quantity varies not the kinde: Will you haue yet ancienter precedents? The Priest was appointed of old to vse a set forme vnder the Law,
Num. 6.23. so the people
Deu. 26.3, 4, 5,
&c. 15. Both of them a stinted Psalme for the Sabbath,
Psal, 92.
Answ. to the Minist. Counterpoys. 327. What saith your Doctor to these? Because the Lord (saith he) gaue formes of Prayers and Psalmes, therefore the Prelates may? Can we think that
Ieroboam had so slender a reason for his calues? Marke (good Reader) the shifts of these men: This Answerer cals for Examples, and will abide no stinting of Prayers, because we shew no patterns from Scripture: We doe shew patterns from Scripture, and now their Doctor saith, God appointed it to them of
[Page 586] old, must wee therefore doe it? So, whether we bring examples or none, wee are condemned: But Master Doctor, whom, I beseech you, should we follow, but God in his owne seruices? If God haue not appointed it, you cry out vpon inuentions: if God haue appointed it, you cry, Wee may not follow it: shew then where God euer inioyned an ordinary seruice to himselfe, that was not ceremoniall (as this plainly is not:) which should not bee a direction for vs? But if stinting our prayers bee a fault (for as yet you meddle not with our blasphemous Collects) it is well that the Lords prayer it selfe beareth vs companie,
Counterpoys. and is no small part of our Idolatrie: Which, though it were giuen principally as a rule to our prayers, yet, since the matter is so heauenly, and most wisely framed to the necessitie of all Christian hearts;
Omnibus arietibus gregis (id est) Aposiolis suis dedit morem orandi, Dimitte nobis, &c. Aug. epist.
89. to deny that it may be vsed intirely in our Sauiours words, is no better than a fanaticall curiousnesse: yeeld one and all, for if the matter bee more diuine, yet the stint is no lesse faultie: This is not the least part of our patchery: except you vnrip this, the rest you cannot. But might not God be purely and perfectly worshipped without it? Tell me, might not God be purely and perfectly worshipped without Churches, without houses, without garments, yea, without hands or feet? In a word, could not God be purely worshipped, if you were not? Yet would you not seeme a superfluous creature: speake in your selfe: Might not God bee intirely worshipped with pure and holy worship, though there were no other Bookes in the World, but the Scripture? If yea, as who can denie it, that knowes what the worship of God meaneth? What then doe the Fathers and Doctors and learned Interpreters? To the fire with all those curious Arts and Volumes, as your Predecessors called them: Yea, let me put you in minde, that God was purely and perfectly worshipped by the Apostolicke Church, before euer the New Testament was written. See therefore the idlenesse of your proofes; God may be serued without a prescription of Prayer, but (if all Reformed Churches in Christendome erre not) better with it: The Word of God is perfect, and admits no addition: cursed were we, if we should adde ought to it: cursed were that which should be added: But cursed be they that take ought from it, and dare say, Ye shall not pray thus,
Our Father, &c. Doe wee offer to make our Prayers Canonicall? doe we obtrude them as parts of Gods Word? Why cauill you thus? Why doth the same Prayer written adde to the Word, which spoken addeth not? Because conceiued Prayer is commanded, not the other: But first, not your particular Prayer: Secondly, without mention either of conception, or memorie, God commands vs to pray in spirit, and with the heart: These circumstances onely as they are deduced from his Generals, so are ours: But whence soeuer it please you to fetch our Booke of publike Prayer, from Rome or Hell; or to what Image soeuer you please to resemble it; Let moderate spirits heare what the pretious IEVVEL of England saith of it: We haue come as neere as we could to the Church of the Apostles,
Apolog. p.
170. Accessimus, &c. H.Burr.
against Gyfford. &c. neither onely haue we framed our Doctrine, but also our Sacraments, and the forme of publike Prayers according to their Rites and Institutions. Let no Iew now obiect Swines-flesh to vs: He is no iudicious man (that I may omit the mention of
Cranmer, Bucer, Ridley, Taylor, &c. some of whose hands were in it, all whose voyces were for it) with whom one IEWEL will not ouer-weigh ten thousand Separatists.
SEP.
The number of Sacraments seemes greater amongst you by one at the least, than Christ hath left in his Testament, and that is Marriage; which howsoeuer you doe not in expresse termes call a Sacrament (no more did Christ and the Apostles call Baptisme and the Supper Sacraments,) yet doe you in truth create it a Sacrament, in the administration and vse of it. There are the parties to bee married and their marriage, representing Christ and his Church, and their spirituall vnion: to which mysterie, saith the Oracle of your Seruice-Booke expresly, God hath consecrated them: there is the Ring hallowed by the said Seruice-Booke, (whereon it must bee laid) for the Element; there are the words of consecration; In the Name of the Father, and of the Sonne, and of the Holy Ghost: there is the place, the Church; the time vsually, the
[Page 587] Lords day▪ the Minister, the Parish Priest. And being made as it is a part of Gods Worship, and of the Ministers office, what is it if it be not a Sacrament? It is a part of Prayer, or preaching, and with a Sacrament it hath the greatest consimilitude: but an Idoll I am sure it is in the celebration of it, being made a Ministeriall duty and part of Gods worship, without warrant, call it by what name you will.
SECTION XXXVIII.
HOw did Confirmation escape this number? how did Ordination?
Marriage not made a Sacrament by the Church of
England. it was your ouer-sight, I feare, not your charitie: some things seeme, and are not: such is this your number of our Sacraments: you will needs haue vs take-in marriage into this ranke: why so? wee doe not (you confesse) call it a Sacrament as the vulgar, misinterpreting
Pauls Mysterium, Eph. 5. why should we not if we so esteemed it? wherfore
[...]erue names, but to denotate the nature of things? if wee were not ashamed of the opinion, we could not be ashamed of the word: No more (say you) did Christ and his Apostles call Baptisme and the Supper, Sacraments; but we doe, and you with vs: See now whether this clause doe not confute your last: where hath Christ euer said, There are two Sacraments? Yet you dare say so: what is this but in your sense an addition to the word? yea, we say flatly, there are but two: yet we doe (you say) in truth create it a Sacrament: how oft, and how resolutely hath our Church maintained against Rome, that none but Christ immediately can create Sacraments? If they had this aduantage against vs, how could we stand? How wrongfull is this force, to fasten an opinion vpon our Church which she hath condemned? But wherein stands this our creation? It is true; the parties to bee married, and their marriage represent Christ, and his Church, and their spirituall vnion: Beware, lest you strike God through our sides: what hath Gods Spirit said either lesse, or other then this?
Eph. 5.25, 26, 27,
& 32. Doth he not make Christ the husband, the Church his Spouse? Doth he not from that sweete coniunction, and the effects of it, argue the deare respects that should bee in marriage? Or what doth the Apostle a
[...]nde else-where vnto, when hee saies (as
Moses of
Eue) wee are flesh of Christs flesh, and bone of his bone? And how famous amongst the ancient is that resemblance of
Eue taken out of
Adams side sleeping, to the Church taken out of Christs side sleeping on the Crosse? Since marriage therefore so clearely represents this mysterie: and this vse is holy and sacred: what error is it, to say that marriage is consecrated to this mysterie? But what is the Element? The Ring; These things agree not; you had before made the two parties to bee the matter of this sacrament? What is the matter of the Sacrament, but the Element? If they be the matter, they are the Element, and so not the Ring; both cannot be: If you will make the two parties to be but the receiuers; how doth all the mysterie lie in their representation? Or if the Ring be the Element, then all the mysterie must be in the Ring, not in the parties: Labor to bee more perfect, ere you make any more new Sacraments: but this Ring is laid vpon the Seruice-booke: why not? For readinesse, not for holinesse: Nay, but it is hallowed (you say) by the booke: If it bee a Sacramentall Element, it rather hallowes the booke, than the booke it; you are not mindfull enough for this trade: But what exorcismes are vsed in this hallowing? Or who euer held it any other than a ciuill pledge of fidelitie? Then follow the words of Consecration: I pray you, what difference is there betwixt hallowing, and consecration? The Ring was hallowed before the booke, now it must be consecrated: How i
[...]ely? By what words?
In the name of the Father, &c. These words you know are spoken after the Ring is put on: was it euer heard of, that a Sacramētall Element was consecrated after it was applied▪ See how-il your slanders are digested by you: The place is the Church, the time is the Lords day, the Minister is the actor; and is it not thus in all
[...]her reformed Churches aswell as ours? Behold, wee are not alone: all Churches in the world (if this will doe it) are guiltie of three Sacraments: Tell me, would you not haue marriage solemnized publikely? You cannot mislike: though your founder seemes to require nothing heere but notice giuen to witnesses, & then to bed: Well, if publike;
Br
[...]. state of Christians, 17
[...]
[Page 588] you account it withall, a graue and weighty businesse: therefore such, as must be sanctified by publike praier: What place is fitter for publike praier than the Church? Who is fitter to offer vp the publike prayer, than the Minister? who should rather ioyne the parties in Mariage, than the publike deputy of that God, who solemnly ioyned the first couple? who rather than hee which in the name of God may blesse them? The prayers which accompany this solemnitie, are parts of Gods worship, not the contract it selfe: This is a mixt action, therefore, compounded of Ecclesiasticall and ciuill: imposed on the Minister, not vpon necessity but expedience: neither essential to him, but accidentally annexed, for greater conuenience. These two friuolous grounds haue made your cauill either very simple, or very wilfull.
SEP.
Your Court of faculties from whence your dispensations and tolerations for Non-residency, and Plurality of Benefices are had together, with your commuting of Penances, and absoluing one man for another. Take away this power from the Prelates, and you maime the Beast in a limme.
SECTION XXXIX.
SEE if this man be not hard driuen for accusations, when he is faine to repeate ouer the very same crime,
Commutation of Penance in our Church. which he had largely vrged before: All the world will know that you want variety, when you send in these twice-sod Coleworts: Somewhat yet we finde new, Commutation of Penance. Our Courts would tell you, that here is nothing dispenced with, but some ceremony of shame in the confession: which in the greater sort is exchanged (for a common benefit of the poore) into a pecuniary mulct; yet (say they) not so as to abridge the Church of her satisfaction, by the confession of the offender: and if you grant the Ceremony deuised by them, why doe you finde fault that it is altered, or commuted by them? As for Absolution, you haue a spite at it, because you sought it, and were repulsed: If the censures be but their owne (so you hold) why blame you the managing of them in what maner seemes best to the authors? This power is no more a limme of the Prelacy, than our Prelacy is that Beast in the
Reuelation: and our Prelacy holds it selfe no more
S. Iohns beast, then it holds you
S. Pauls beast,
Phil. 3.2.
Sep.
In your High Commission Court very absolute, where, by the Oath
Ex Officio, men are constrained to accuse themselues of such things as whereof no man will or can accuse them; what necessity is laid vpon men in this case, let your prisons witnesse.
SECTION XL.
Oath Ex officio.I Aske of Auricular Confession; you send me to our High Commission Court: these two are much alike: But here is also very absolute necessity of confession: True; but as in a case of iustice, not of shrift: to cleare a truth, not to obtaine absolution: to a bench of Iudges, not to a Priests eare; Here are too many ghostly Fathers, for an auricular confession: But you will mistake, it is enough against vs, that men are constrained in these courts to confesse against themselues: why name you these courts onely? Euen in others also oathes are vrged, not onely (
ex officio mercenario, but
no
[...]ili:) The honorablest Court of Star-chamber giues an oath in a criminall case to the defendant; So doth the Chancery, and Court of Requests: Shortly, to omit forraine examples, how many instances haue you of this like proceeding in the common Lawes of this Land? But withall you might learne, that no Enquiry
Ex officio may be thus made but vpon good grounds,
D. Cos
[...]s his Apol. as Fame, Scandall, vehement presumption, &c. going before, and
[Page 589] giuing iust cause of suspicion: Secondly,
D. Au
[...]r. determ. de Iur
[...]rando
[...]. Num.
5.12. Icsh.
7.19. 1 Sam.
14 43. G. Iohns. & M. Crud.
Trouble at Amsterd. p.
132. Non potest quis in vna causa eodem mom
[...]nto duas portarepersonas, vt in eodem iudicio & accusator sit & iud
[...]. Optat.
[...]
7. that this proceeding is not allowed in any case of crime, whereby the life, or limmes of the examined party, may be indangered: nor yet, where there is a iust suspition of future periury vpon such enforcement. Thus is the suspected wife vrged to cleare h
[...] honesty by oath: Thus the Master of the house must cleare his truth,
Exod.
[...].8. Thus
A
[...]an and
Ionathan were vrged to be their owne accusers, though not by oath▪ But if perhap
[...]
[...] Iusticer in their proceedings; must this b
[...]
[...] petty-Courts at ho
[...]
[...] onely to the Commission Court of
England, but to the Inquisition of
Spaine▪ See
[...] your Pastor defending himselfe to be both an accuser and Iudge in the same cause: See their proceedings
Ex Officio without commission: and if your prisons cannot witnesse it, your excommunications may.
SEP.
Though you haue lost the Shrines of Saints, yet you retaine their da
[...]es, and those holy as the Lords day, and that with good profit to your spirituall carnall Courts, from such as p
[...]fane them with the least and most lawfull
[...] notwithstanding the liberty of the si
[...] dayes labour, which the Lord hath giuen: and as much would the Masters of these Courts bee stirred at the Casting of these Saints dayes out of the Calender,
[...] were the Masters of the possessed maid, when the Spirit of diuination was cast out of her, Act. 1
[...].19.
SECTION XLI.
WEe haue not lost, but cast away the Idolatrous shrines of Saints:
Holy-dayes how obserued in the Church of England. their daies we retaine; theirs, not for worship of them, which our Church condemneth, but partly for
[...]ommo
[...] oration of their high deserts, and excellent examples: partly for distinction: indeed therefore Gods dayes, and not theirs▪ their praises redound to him: shew vs where we implore them, where wee consecrate daies to their seruice: The maine end of Holy-daies is for the seruice of God, and some,
Socr. l.
5. c.
21. Est.
9.17. Nehe.
12.27. 1 Mac.
4.29. Iohn
10.13. Aug. Ep.
44. Scias à Christianis Catholicis nullum coli mortuorum, nihil deni
(que) vt numen ad
[...]rari, quod fit factum & conditu
[...] à Deo. Quae tolo orbe terrarum, &c. sicuti quo
(que) Domini passio & resurrectio & in coelum ascensus, & aduentus Spiritus sancti anniuersar. à solemnitate c
[...]ebrantur. Aug. Epist.
118. Churches of France
and Flanders
in Har
[...].
confess. Th Whites
Discouer. p. 1
[...]. as
Socrates sets downe of old,
(quo se à láborum conte
[...]ione relax
[...]) for relaxation from labour: and if such daies may be appointed by the Church (as were the Holy daies of
P
[...]rim; of the dedication of the wall of Ierusalem, the dedication of the Temple) whose names should they rather beare (though but for meere distinction) than the blessed Apostles of Christ? But his is a colour onely: for you equally condemne those dayes of Christs Birth, Ascension, Circumcision, Resurrection, Anunciation, which the Church hath beyond all memory celebrated: what then is our fault? Wee keepe these holy as the Lords day, in the same manner, though not in the same degree: Indeed we come to the Church, and worship the God of the Martyrs and Saints: is this yet our offence? No, but we abstaine from our most lawfull labour in them; True, yet not in conscience of the day, but in obedience to the Church: If the Church shall indict a solemne Fast: doe you not hold it contemptuous to spend that day i
[...] lawfull labour notwithstanding that liberty of the six dayes which God hath giuen? Why shall that be lawfull in a case of deiection, which may not in praise and exultation? If you had not loued to cauill, you would rather haue accepted the Apology, or excuse of our sister Churches in this behalfe, than aggrauated these uncharitable pleas of your owne▪ yet euen in this, your owne Synagogue at
Amsterdam (if we may beleeue your owne) is not altogether guiltlesse: your hands are still and your shops shut vpon festiuall dayes; But we accuse you not: would God this were your worst. The Masters of our Courts would tell you, they would not care so much for this dispossession, as that it should be done by such coniurers as your selfe.
SEP.
If an ignorant and vnpreaching Ministery be approued amongst you, and the people constrained by all kinde of violence to submit vnto it, and therewith to rest (as what a more vsuall throughout the whole kingdome?) then let no modest man once open his mouth to deny, that ignorance is constrained and approued amongst you. If the seruice said or sung in the Parish Church may be called deuotion, then fa
[...]e there is good store of vnknowne deuotion, the greatest part in most parishes, neither knowing nor regarding what is said, nor wherefore.
SECTION XLII.
Our approbation of an vnlearned Ministery disproued.YOur want of quarrels makes you still runne ouer the same complaints: which if you redouble a thousand times, wil not become iust, may become tedious: God knowes how far we are from approuing an vnlearned Ministery: The protestations of our gracious King, our Bishops, our greatest Patrons of conformity in their publike writings, might make you ashamed of this bold assertion: we doe not allow that it should be, we bewaile that it will be: our number of Parishes compared with our number of Diuines, will soone shew; that either many Parishes must haue none, or some Diuines must haue many Congregations, or too many Congregations must haue scarce Diuine-Incumbents.
Confer. at Hampt. Our deare Souereigne hath promised a medecine for this disease; But withall tels you that
Ierusalem was not built all on a day. The violence you speake of is commonly in case of wilfull contempt, not of honest and peaceable desired further instruction, or in supposall of some tolerable ability in the Ministery forsaken; we do heartily pray for labourers into this haruest: we do wish that all
Israel could prophesie: we publish the Scriptures, we Preach, Catechise, Write, and (Lord thou knowest) how many of vs would doe more, if wee knew what more could bee done, for the information of thy people, and remedy of this ignorance which this aduersary reproues vs to approue.
We doubt not but the seruice said in our Parish-Churches, is as good a seruice to God, as the extemporary deuotions in your Parlours: But, It is an vnknowne deuotion, you say: Through whose fault? The Readers, or the Hearers, or the Matter? Distinct reading you cannot deny
[...]o the most Parishes: the matter, is easie Prayers, and
English Scriptures: if the hearers be regardlesse; or in some things dull of conceit, lay the fault from the Seruice to the men: All yours are free from ignorance, free from wandering conceits: we enuy you not, some knowledge is no better than some ignorance, and carelesnesse is no worse than mis-regard.
SEP.
What are your sheet-penances for adultery, and all your purse-penances for all other sinnes? than which, though some worse in Popery, yet none more common.
SECTION XLIII.
Penances inioyned in the Church of England.COmming now to the Vaults of Popery, I aske for their Penances, and Purgatory; those Popish Penances, which presumptuous Confessors enioyned as satisfactory, and meritorious vpon their bold absolutions: You send me to Shee
[...]-penances and Purse-penances: the one, ceremonious corrections of shame, enioyned and adioyned to publike Confessions of vncleannesse,
Sacc
[...] & cin
[...]ri incubare, corp
[...] fordibus
[...]bscurarē, presbyteris aduolu
[...], & aris Dei adgeniculari. Tert. de penit. for the abasing of the offender, and hate of the sin: such like as the ancient Church thought good to vse for this purpose. Hence they were appointed (as
Tertullian speaketh) in sackcloth and ashes, to craue the prayers of the Church, to besmeare their body with filthinesse, to throw themselues down before Gods minister & Altar; not to mention other more hard, & perhaps
[Page 591] no lesse ancient Rites; and hence, were those fiue stations of the Penitent, whereby he was at last receiued into the body of his wonted Communion:
Canon. Greg. Neocaesar.
[...], &c. the other a pecuniarie mulct imposed vpon some (not all, you foulely slander vs) lesse hainous offences; as a penalty, not as a penance: I hope you deny not; Sodomy, Murder, Robbery, and (which you would not). Theft it selfe is more deeply auenged: But did euer any of ours vrge either sheet or puse as the remedy of Purgatory, or enioyne them, to auoid those infernall paines? vnlesse we do so, our Penances are not Popish, & our Answerer is idle.
SEP.
Touching Purgatory, though you deny the doctrine of it, and teach the contrary, yet how well your practise sutes with it, let it be considered in these particulars: Your absoluing of men dying excommunicate after they be dead, and before they may haue Christian buriall. Your Christian buriall in holy ground (if the party will be at the charges;) your ringing of hallowed bels for the soule; your singing the Corps to the graue from the Church stile; your praying ouer, or for the dead, especially in these words, That God would hasten his Kingdome, that wee with this our Brother (though his life were neuer so wretched, and death desperate) and all other departed in the true faith of thy holy Name, may haue our perfect consummation both in body and soule. Your generall doctrines and your particular practises agree in this, as in the most other things, like Harpe and Harrow. In word you professe many truths, which in deed you deny.
These and many moe Popish deuices (by others at large discouered to the world) both for pompe and profit, are not onely not ra
[...]ed and buried in the dust, but are aduanced amongst you aboue all that is called God.
SECTION XLIV.
YOur next accusation is more ingeniously malicious;
The practises of the Church of England cō cerning the funerals of the Dead. our Doctrine you grant contrary to Purgatory: but you will fetch it out of our practise, that we may build that which we destroy: Let vs therfore purge our selues from your Purgatory: We absolue men dying excommunicate; a rare practise, and which yet I haue not liued to see: but if Law-makers contemne rare occurrents, surely accusers doe not: Once is too much of an euill: Marke then; Doe we absolue his Soule after the departure? No: what hath the body to doe with Purgatory? Yet for the body: doe we by any absolution seeke to quit it from sinne? Nothing lesse: reason it selfe giues vs, that it is vncapable either of sinne or pardon; To lie vnburied, or to be buried vnseemly, is so much a punishment, that the Heathens obiected it (though vpon the hauocke and fury of Warre) to the Christians: as an argument of Gods neglect. All that Authoritie can doe to the dead Rebell, is to put his carcasse to shame, and deny him the honour of seemely sepulture: Thus doth the Church to those that will die in wilfull contempt. Those Grecian virgins that feared not death,
Aug. de Ciu. l.
2. Athenienses decreuerunt ne siquis se interfecisset sepeliretur in agro attico, &c. were yet refrained with the feare of shame
[...]ter death: it was a reall, not imaginary curse of
Iezabel; The dogs shall eat
Iezabel. Now the absolution (as you call it, by an vnproper; but malicious name) is nothing else, but a liberty giuen by the Church (vpon repentance signified of the fault of the late offender) of all those externall Rites of decent Funerall: Death it selfe is capable of inequality, and vnseemelinesse: Suppose a iust Excommunication: What reason is it, that he which in his life and death would be as a Pagan, should be as a Christia
[...] in his buriall? What is any, or all this to Purgatory?
The next intimation of our Purgatory, is our Christian buriall, in the place, in the manner: The place, holy ground, the Church, Churchyard, &c. The manner, Ringing Singing, Praying ouer the corps. Thus therefore you argue; We bury the body in the Church, or Churchyard, &c. therefore we hold a Purgatory of the Soule; a proofe not lesse strange than the opinion: We doe neither scorne the carcasses of our friends, as the old
Troglodites: nor with the old
Aegyptians respect them more, than when they were enformed with a liuing soule: but we keepe a meane course betwixt both, vsing them
[Page 592] as the remainders of dead men,
Sleeping-places Coemiteria. Euseb. l.
7. c.
12.
[...]. Splendidissimae sepulturae tradidit. Eus. l.
7. c.
15 Curatio funeris, conditio sepulturae, p
[...]npa exequiarum, magis sunt viu
[...]rum solatia quam subsidia mortuorum Aug. de ciuit. l.
1. c.
12.
Si enim paterna vestis & annulus tanto charaest posteris, nullo modo ipsa spernenda sunt corpora. Aug. de Ciu. l.
1. c.
13. Orig. cont. Cels. l.
8. Rationalem animam honorare didicimus, &c. yet as dead Christians: and as those which we hope one day to see glorious. We haue learned to call no place holy in it selfe (since the Temple) but some more holy in their vse, than others. The old (
[...]) of the Christians, wherein their bodies slept in peace, were not lesse esteemed of them, than they are scorned of you.
Galienus thought he did them a great fauour (and so they tooke it) when he gaue them the liberty not only of their Churches; but of their former burying places, In the same booke
Eusebius commends
Astirius a noble Senator, for his care, and cost of
Marinus his buriall. Of all these rites of Funerall, and choice of place, we professe to hold with
Augustine, that they are onely the comforts of the liuing, not helpes of the dead; yet as
Origen also teacheth vs, wee haue learned to honour a reasonable (much more a Christian,) soule; and to commit the instrument or case of it honourably to the graue. All this might haue taught our Answerer, that we make account of an heauen, of a resurrection, not of a Purgatory. But we ring hallowed bells for the Soule: Doe not those bells hang in hallowed Steeples too? and doe wee not ring them with hallowed ropes? what fancie is this? If Papists were so fond of old: their folly and their belles (for the most part) are both out of date; wee call them soule-belles, for that they signifie the departure of the soule, not for that they help the passage of the soule. This is meere Boyes-play. But we pray ouer or for the dead; Doe we not sing to him also? Pardon me, I must need
[...] tell you, here is much spite, and little wit. To pray for the conf
[...] mation of the glory of all Gods elect: What is it, but
Thy kingdome come? How vainly doe you seeke a knot in a rush, while you cauill at so holy a Petition? Goe and learne how much better it is, to call them our Brothers, which are not, in an harmelesse ouer-weening, and ouer-hoping of charity: than to call them no brothers, which are, in a proud & censorious vncharitablenes: you cannot be content to tell an vntruth, but you must face it out: Let any Reader iudge, how farre our practice in this dissented from our doctrine; would to God in nothing more: Yes (saith this good friend) in the most other things; our words professe, our deeds denie: at once you make vs hypocrites, and your selues Pharises. Let all the world know, that the English Church at
Amsterdam professeth nothing which it practiseth not: we may not be so holy, or so happy.
Generality is a notable shelter of vntruth: Many mo, you say, Popish deuices, yet name none; No, you cannot. Aduanced aboue all that is called God? surely this is a paradoxe of slanders: you meant at once to shame vs with falshood, and to appose vs with Riddles: we say to the Highest, Whom haue we in Heauen but thee? and for earth, your selfe haue granted we giue too much to Princes, (which are earthen Gods (& may come vnder
Pauls (
[...].) Either name our Deitie, or craue mercie for your wrong certainly, though you haue not remorse, yet you shall haue shame.
SEP.
You are far from doing to the
Romish Idols, as was done to the
Aegyptian Idols,
MITH
[...] and
SERAPIS, whose Priests were expelled their Ministerie, and Monuments expose
[...] vtter scorne and desolation, their Temples demolished and raced to the very foundation.
SECTION XLV.
The Churches still retained in England. Socrat. Hist. Ec. l.
5. c.
16.17. Bed. hist. Eccl. l.
1. Cit. Gregor. Ep. Aug. suo. c.
30. & Edil
[...]rto regi c.
32. Contra sibi &c. Sed & Haereticorum templa ve
[...]ata à Constantin
[...]. Eused. l.
3. c.
63.THE Maiestie of Romish Petti-gods (I truely told you) was long agone, with
Mithra and
Serapis, exposed to the laughter of the vulgar: you straine the comparison too farre; yet we follow you: Their Priests were expelled: for (as your Doctor yeeldeth) other Actors came vpon the same stage: others in religion, else it had beene no change: Their Ministerie and Monuments exposed to vtter scorn
[...]: Their Masses, their oblations, their adorations, their invocations, their anoylings, their exorcizings, their s
[...]rift, their absolutions, their Images, Rood-lofts, and whatsoeuer else of this kinde: But the Temples of those olde Heathens were demolished and raz
[...]d: Here is the quarrell: ours stand still in their proud Maiestie: Can you see no difference
[Page 593] betwixt our Churches and their Temples?
Aug. de Ciuit. l.
8 c.
27. Ho
[...]ker
5. b. c.
13. Id. Aug. coner. Maximin. Arrian. Nonne si templum. &c. Optat. Mileuitā. l.
6. Leuistis proculdubio pallas, Iudicate quid de co
[...]cibus fecistis: Aut vtrumque lauate, aut &c. Si quod tangit aspectus lauandum est, vt parietes &c. Videmus rectum, videmus & coelum, &c. haec à vobis laua
[...]i non possunt. The very name it selfe (if at least you haue vnderstood it) Kirke or Church (which is nothing but an abbreuiation of (
[...]) the Lords house) might haue taught you, that ours were dedicated to God, & theirs to the Deuill, in their false gods:
Augustine answers you, as directly, as if he were in my roome: The Gentiles (saith he) to their gods erected Temples; wee not Temples vnto our Martyrs, as vnto Gods, but memorials as vnto dead men, whose spirits with God are still liuing: These then if they were abused by Popish Idolatrie, is there no way, but Downe with them, downe with them to the ground? Well fare the Donatists yet your old friends: they but washed the walles that were polluted by the Orthodoxe; by the same token, that
Optatus askes them, why they did not wash the bookes which ours toucht, and the heauens which they lookt vpon: What, are the very stones sinfull? what can be done with them? The very earth where they should lye on heapes would bee vncleane: But not their pollution angers you more, than their proud Maiestie: What house can bee too good for the Maker of all things? As God is not affected with State, so is he not delighted in basenesse. If the pompe of the Temple were ceremoniall, yet it leaues this moralitie behinde it, that Gods house should be decent: and what if goodly? If we did put holinesse in the stones, as you doe vncleanenesse, it might be sinne to bee costly: Let mee tell you, there may bee as much pride in a clay wall, as in a carued: Proud Maiestie is better than proud basenesse: the stone or clay will offend in neither, we may in both: If you loue cottages, the auncient Christians with vs, loued to haue Gods house stately, as appeares by the example of that worthy Bishop of
Alexandria,
Athanas. Apol. Euseb. de vita Const. O
[...]bo Frising. l.
5. c.
3. and that gracious
Constantine, in whose daies these sacred piles began to lift vp their heads vnto this enuied height: Take you your owne choyce, giue vs ours; let vs neitheir repine, nor scorne at each other.
SEP.
But your Temples, especially your Cathedrall and mother Churches, stand still in their proud Maiestie possessed by Arch-Bishops and Lord-Bishops, like the Flamins and Arch-Flamins amongst the Gentiles, from whom they were deriued and furnished with all manner of pompous and superstitious monuments, as carued and painted Images, Massing-Copes and Surplices, chanting and Organ-musicke, and many other glorious ornaments of the
Romish Harlot, by which her Maiestie is commended to, and admired by the vulgar: so farre are you in these respects for being gone, or fled, yea, or crept either, out of
Babylon.
Now if you be thus
Babylonish where you repute your selues most Sion-like, and thus confounded in your owne euidence, what defence could you make in the things whereof an aduersary would challenge you? If your light be darknesse, how great is your darkenesse?
SECTION XLVI.
ALL this while I feared you had beene in Popish Idolatry;
The Founders and Furnitures of our Churches. now I finde you in Heathenish: These our Churches are still possessed by their
Flamins, and Arch-
Flamins: I had thought none of our Temples had beene so ancient: certainly I finde but one poore ruinous building, reported to haue worne out this long tyranny of time: For the most, you might haue read their age, and their Founders in open records: But these were deriued from those: surely the Churches as much as the men: It is true, the
Flamins, and whateuer other heathen Priests, were put downe,
Lumb. l.
4. dist.
24. Isid. l.
7. Etymol. cap.
12. Theophilus Episc. cum caeteras statuas deorum confringere
[...], vnam integram seruari iussit, eamque in loco publico crexit, vt Christian Bishops were set vp; Are these therefore deriued from those? Christianity came in the roome of Iudaisme: was it therefore deriued from it? Before you told vs, that our Prelacie came from that Antichrist of
Rome, now from the
Flamins of the Heathen: Both no lesse, than either: If you cannot be true, yet learne to be constant. But what meane you to charge our Churches with carued & painted Images? It is well you write to those that know them; Why did not you say wee bow our knees to them, and offer incense? Perhaps you haue espied some olde dustie statue in an obscure corner, couered ouer
[Page 594] with Cob-webs,
Gentiles tempore progrediente non infici
[...]rentur se iu
[...]smodi deos coluisse. Ammonius Grammaticus hacdere valde discruciatus, Dixit grauem plagèm religioni Graecorum inflictam, quod illa vna statua non cuerteretur. Socrat. l.
5. c.
16. with halfe a face, & that miserably blemisht, or perhaps halfe a Crucifixe inuerted in a Church-window, and these you surely noted for
English Idols: no lesse dangerous glasse you might haue seene at
Geneua, a Church that hates Idolatry, as much as you doe vs: What more? Massing Copes, and Surplices: some Copes (if you will) more Surplices, no Massing: Search your bookes againe, you shall finde Albes in the Masse, no Surplices. As for Organ-musicke, you should not haue fetcht it from Rome, but from Ierusalem: In the Reformed Church at Middleburgh, you might haue found this skirt of the Harlot: which yet you grant at least crept out of Babylon; Iudge now (Christian Reader) of the weight of these grand exceptions; and see whether ten thousand such were able to make vs no Church, and argue vs not onely in Babylon, but to be Babylon it selfe: Thus Babylonish we are to you, and thus Sion-like to God: euery true Church is Gods Sion: euery Church that holds the Foundation, is true, according to that golden rule,
Ephes. 2.21. Euery building that is coupled together in this corner-stone, groweth vnto an holy Temple in the Lord: No aduersary, either Man or Deuill, can confound vs, eitheir in our euidences, or their owne challenges: we may be faultie, but we are true: And if the darkenesse you finde in vs be light, how great is our light?
SEP.
But for that not the separation, but the cause makes the Schismatike; and lest you should seeme to speake euill of the thing you know not, and to condemne a cause vnhear
[...], you lay downe in the next place the supposed cause of our separation, against which you deale as insufficiently. And that you pretend to be, none other than your consorting with the Papists in certaine Ceremonies: touching which, and our separation in regard of them thus you write.
M.H. If you haue taken but the least knowledge of the ground of our iudgement and practice, how dare you thus abuse both vs and the Reader, as if the onely or chiefe ground of our separation were your Popish Ceremonies? But if you goe onely by gesse, hauing neuer so much as read ouer one Treatise published in our defence, and yet sticke not to passe this your censorious doo
[...]e both vpon vs and it; I leaue it to the Reader to iudge whether you haue beene more lauish of your censure, or credit. Most vniust is the censure of a cause vnknowne, though in it selfe neuer so blame-worthy, which neuerthelesse may be praise-worthy, for ought he knowes that censures it.
SECTION XLVII.
On what ground Separation or Ceremonies were obiected.HEE that leaues the whole Church in a grosse and wilfull errour, is an Heretike; he that leaues a particular Church for appendances, is a Schismaticke: such are you, both in the action and cause: The act is yelded, the cause hath beene in part scanned, shall be more: This I vainely pretended to be our consorting in Ceremonies with the Papists: Behold here the ground of your lowd challenge of my ignorance: Ignorance of your Iudgement and practice: Here is my abuse of you, of my Reader: and, how durst I? Good words (M. R.) What I haue erred, I will confesse: I haue wronged you indeed: but in my charitie: I knew the cause of Brownisme, but I knew not you: For (to say ingenuously) I had heard and hoped, that your cause had beene lesse desperate; My intelligence was, that in dislike of these Ceremonies obtruded, and an hopelesnesse of future libertie, you and your fellows had made a secession, rather than a separation from our Church; to a place where you might haue scope to professe, and opportunitie to enioy your owne conceits: whence it was that I termed you Ring-leaders of the late separation, not followers of the first, and made your plea against our Church, imperfection, not falshood: I hoped you, as not ours, so not theirs: not ours in place,
Inq. into M.
White. so not quite theirs in peeuish opinion: I knew it to bee no new thing for men inclin ng to these fancies, to beginne new Churches at
Amsterdam, seuerall from the rest: witnesse the letters of some (sometimes yours) cited by your own Pastor: I knew the former separation, and hated it; I hoped better of the later separation, and pittied it: My knowledge both of
Which vpon the Lo
[...]ds Praye. hath
[...]nfuted some
[...] of
[...]. M.
Smith whom you followed, and your selfe, would not let
[Page 595] me thinke of you, as you deserued: How durst I charge you with that, which perhaps you might disauow? It was my charity therefore, that made my accusations easie: it is your vncharitablenesse that accuses them of ignorance. I knew why a
Brownist is a true Schismaticke; I knew not you were so true a
Brownist. But why then did I write? Taking your separation at best; I knew how iustly I might take occasion by it to disswade from separation; to others good, though not to yours: Now I know you better, or worse rather, I thinke you heare more: Forgiue mee my charity, and make the worst of my ignorance. I knew that this separation (which now I know yours) stands vpon foure grounds, as some beasts vpon foure feet. First, God worshipped after a false manner;
Barr.
and Gr
[...]en. passim. Penr.
Exam. Secondly, Profane multitude receiued; Thirdly, Antichristian Ministery imposed; Fourthly, Subiection to Antichristian Gouernment: The Ceremonies are but as some one paw in euery foot: yet if we extend the word to the largest vse, diuiding all Religion into Ceremony, and Substance; I may yet, and doe auerre, that your separation is meerely grounded vpon Ceremonies.
SEP.
And touching the ceremonies here spoken of, howsoeuer we haue formerly refused them, submitting (as all others did and doe) to the Prelates spirituall Iurisdiction, (herein through ignorance straining at Gnats, and swallowing Camels) yet are we verily perswaded of them, and so were before we separated, that they are but as leaues of that tree, and as badges of that Man of sinne, whereof the Pope is head, and the Prelates shoulders. And sowe for our parts see no reason why any of the Bishops sworne seruants (as all the Ministers in the Church of
England are Canonically) should make nice to weare their Lords liueries. Which Ceremonies notwithstanding we know well enough, howsoeuer you for aduantage extenuate and debase them vnto vs, to be aduanced and preferred in your Church, before the preaching of the Gospell.
It is much that they being not so much as Reed, nor any part of the building (as you pretend) should ouerturne the best builders amongst you as they doe. The proportion betwixt
Zoar and them holds well:
Zoar was a neighbour vnto
Sodome, both in place and sinne, and obnoxious to the same destruction with it: and it was
Lots errour to desire to haue it spared,
Gen. 19.15, 18, 19, 20. and so he neuer found rest nor peace in it, but forsooke it for feare of the same iust iudgement, which had ouertaken the rest of the Cities, verse
30. The application of this to your Ceremonies, I leaue to your selfe, and them to that destruction, to which they are deuoted by the Lord.
SECTION XLVIII.
ANd touching Ceremonies; you refused them formerly, but not long:
Estimation of Ceremonies, and subiection to the Prelates. and when you did refuse them, you knew not wherefore; for immediately before your suspension, you acknowledged them to be things indifferent, and for matter of scandall by them, you had not informed your selfe (by your owne confession) of a whole quarter of a yeere after: Why refused you then, but as the Poet made his playes, to please the people, or as
Simon Magus was baptized, for company? But refusing them, you submitted to the Prelates spirituall Iurisdiction: there was your crime; this was your Camell, the other your Gnats: Did euer any Prelate challenge spirituall rule ouer your conscience?
This they all appropriate to the great Bishop of our soules: and if other; grant them as your malice faineth: what sinne is it to be the subiect of a Tyrant? now vpon more grace, refusing the Prelacy, you haue branded the Ceremonies: So you did before your separation; Tell vs, how long was it after your suspension, and before your departure, that you could haue beene content (vpon condition) to haue worne this linnen badge of your Man of sinne? Was not this your resolution, when you went from
Norwich to
Lincolneshire, after your suspension? Deny it not; my witnesses are too strong. But let vs take you as you are: these Ceremonies, though too vile for you, yet are good enough
[Page 596] for our Ministers of
England: As if you said, Lord, I thanke thee, I am not as this Publican: Why for our Ministers? Because, those are the Liueries, and these the sworne seruants of the Antichristian Bishops:
1 Cor.
4.1. Ier. in Psal.
44. Heming. Class.
3. Potest. Eccl. c.
10. Vt cui
(que) suus clirus & sua plebs in bis quae Domini sunt, pie obsequerentur. We haue indeed sworne obedience to our Ordinary, in honest and lawfull Commandements, but seruice to
Christ: But doth all obedience imply seruitude? This obedience is, as to spirituall Fathers, not to Masters: yet so are we the seruants of Christ, that we are ready to giue our seruice to the least of his Saints: Thus vile will we be for God: How much more to those whom God hath made (as
Hierome sayes)
Principes Ecclesiae: whiles they command for God: What doe we herein, but that which
Epiphanius vrged of old against
Aërius; What but the same which
Ignatius (that holy and old Martyr) requires (not once) of all Presbyters, and offers the ingagement of his owne soule for vs in this act?
Ignat. Epist. ad Tarsens.
As for our Ceremonies, aggrauate them how you can for your aduantage, they are but Ceremonies to vs: and such, as wherein we put no holinesse, but order, decencie, conuenience: but they are preferred (you say) in our Church, before the preaching of the Gospell: a most wrongfull vntruth; We hold preaching an essentiall part of Gods seruice, Ceremonies none at all: the Gospell preached we hold the life and soule of the Church; Ceremonies either the garment, or the lace of the garment: The Gospel preached we hold the Foundation and Wals; Ceremonies hardly so much as Reed, or Tile: But how then (say you) haue they ouerturned our best builders? This is a word of rare fauour: I had thought you had held vs all ruiners, not builders: Or if builders; of Babel, not of Ierusalem: in which worke the best builders are the worst. Those whose hand hath been in this act, would tell you, that not so much the Ceremonies are stood vpon, as obedience: If God please to try
Adam but with an Apple, it is enough: What doe we quarrell at the value of the fruit, when we haue a prohibition?
Shimei is slaine: what meerely for going out of the City? the act was little, the bond was great: what is commanded, matters not so much, as by whom; insult not, wee may thanke your outrage for this losse.
For your retortion of my
Zoar and
Sodom: I can giue you leaue to be witty, you vse it so seldome: but when you haue plaied with the allusion what you list, I must tell you that he which will needs vrge a comparison to goe on foure feet, is not worthy to goe vpon two:
Zoar was neere to
Sodom, not part of it:
Zoar was reserued when
Sodome was destroyed:
Fidem Domino habere debuerat qui se eam seruaturum propter eum dixerat. Mercer. in. Gen.
Zoars neerenesse to the place where
Sodome stood, needed not haue giuen
Lot cause of remoueall.
Zoar might safely haue beene the harbour of
Lot: his feare was, for want of faith: God promised him, and the place security: the far-fetcht application therefore of the wickednesse of
Zoar, to our Ceremonies, might well haue beene forborne, and kept to your selfe: much lesse needed you (like some Anti-
Lot) to call for fire and brimstone from heauen vpon your
Zoar.
SEP.
How we would haue behaued our selues in the Temple, where the Money-changers were, and they that sold Doues, we shall answere you, when you proue your Church to be the Temple of God, compiled and built of spiritually-hewne and liuely stones,
1 King. 5.17, 18. and
6, 7. 1 Pet. 2.5. and of the Cedars, Firres, and Thyne trees of
Lebanon, 2 Chron. 2.8. framed and set together in that comely order, which a greater than
Salomon hath prescribed: vnto which God hath promised his presence. But whilest we take it to bee (as it is) a confused heaped of dead and defiled and polluted stones, and of all rubbish, of briers and brambles of the wildernesse, for the most part, fitter for burning than building; we take our selues rather bound to shew our obedience in departing from it, than our valour in purging it, and to follow the Prophets counsell in flying out of
Babylon, as the Hee goates before the flocke,
Ier. 50.8.
SECTION XLIX.
HOw you would haue behaued your selfe in the Temple to the Money-changers, you will answer when wee proue our Church to be Gods Temple,
The state of the Temple, and of our Church in resemblance. built of that matter, and in that forme which God hath prescribed: & here you send vs to 1
King. 5.17. and 2
Chron. 2.8. Ignorantly; as if
Salomons Temple had stood till Christs time: when neither the first, nor second (though called
Beth Gu
[...]am) outlasted more than foure hundred yeeres: Or as if the Market had beene vnder the very roofe of that Temple. Whether
Herods were built of the same matter with
Salomons, and in full correspondence to it, I dispute not: it was certainely dedicated to Gods seruice, and that (which you would hardly disgest) in a solemne anniuersary Holy day; though not erected vpon the word of any Prophet. But to let passe Allegories: we must proue our selues the true Church of God: Thus we doe it: We are true Christians, for we were baptized into the Name of Christ; we truly professe our continuance in the same faith▪ into which we were baptized: we ioyne together in the publike Seruices of God: wee maintaine euery point of the most ancient Creeds: we ouerthrow not the foundation by any consequence. Therefore what euer is wanting to vs, whateuer is superfluous, in spight of all the gates of Hell, we are the true Church of God. Let me aske you: Were not the people of the
Iewes in the Prophets, & in Christs time, a confused heape of dead and defiled, and (for I will vse your Tautologies) polluted stones, and of all rubbish, of beyers and brambles of the Wildernesse, for the most part fitter for burning than building? Can we be worse than they? If wickednesse can defile a Church, they shall iustifie vs: did either those Prophets, or our Sauiour, rather shew their obedience to God in departing from it, than their valour in purging it? you haue well imitated these heauenly patternes. But what; Can your charity finde nothing but rubbish? Not one square stone, not one liuing? You will be iudging till God iudge you: if you take not heed of these courses, you will so runne with the He-goats, that you will stand with the Goats on the left hand. That God, whose place you haue vsurped, giue you more wisdome and loue.
SEP.
And what (I pray you) is the valour which the best hearted, and most Zealous Reformers amongst you haue manifested, in driuing out the money-changers? doth it not appeare in this, that they suffer themselues to be driuen out with the two stringed whip of Ceremonies and subscription, by the money-changers, the Chancellors and Officials, which sell sinnes like Doues and by the chiefe Priests, the Bishops which set them on worke? so farre are the most Zealous amongst you from driuing out the money-changers, as they themselues are driuen out by them, because they will not change with them to the vtmost farthing.
SECTION L.
THe valour of our most zealous Reformers hath truly shewed it selfe in wel-dance: As in Duels: so here,
Whether Ministers should indure themselues
[...]enced. he is the most valiant that can so master himselfe as not to fight: you according to the common opinion of Swaggerers, blame the peaceable of cowardise, and accuse them of suffering. Behold a new crime: That they suffer themselues to be driuen out: What should they haue done? Should they haue taken armes, and cry, The sword of God, and
Gedeon? You that will not allow a Prince to compell Subiects, will you allow Subiects to compell Princes? God forbid, This were high Treason against Gods Anointed: what then? Should they approue the Ceremonies by subscription, by practise? This you exclaime vpon, as high Treason against the Highest: What yet more? Should they haue preached with their mouthes stop
[...] This is it, which you haue learned of your Founder, and through not many hands receiued, and required with no lesse violence: Clamour and tumults is that you desire;
Brow. Reforma. without Tar.
[Page 598] still let our sinne be peaceable obedience, yours fury and opposition. Your head-strong conceit is, that it is a sinne to be silenced: Men must preach euen when they may not: all times before you,
[...].
We charge him not to serue any more. So Can.
15. Can.
25. Cum compertum fuerit deponatur. Can.
10. De Clericatus bonore pericli
[...]abitur. Can.
2. E Clero deponatur & sit alienus à Canone. Can.
17. & Can.
18. A Ministerio cessare debuerit. Concil. Sardic. c.
4. Concil. Carth.
4. c.
48. &
56, 57. Leo Ep.
1 Sect.
5. Cypr. l.
3. Ep.
9. Socr. l.
2. c.
21. would haue wondred at this Paradox: For howeuer the Apostles, which had not their calling from men, would not be silenced by men, yet we find that all their successors held that those hands which were laid vpon their heads, might be laid vpon their mouthes: looke into all Histories: Those Constitutions (which though not Apostolike, yet were ancient) in the seuenth Canon punish a Bishop, or Presbyter, that vpon pretence of Religion separates from is wife, with deposition: and if any Presbyter shall shift his charge without licence (
[...]) and lastly; inflicts the same penalty vpon Fornication, Adultery, Periury.
The great
Nicene Councell takes the same order with some misliked Bishops, and Presbyters in diuers Canons:
Gaudentius in the Councell of
Sardi, takes it for granted, that a Bishop may by Bishops be deposed: so the second Councell of
Carthage, Can. 13. so the fourth Councell of
Carthage more than once imposes degradation: so
Leo the first threats to put some offending persons from the office of their Ministery: so (that I may not be endlesse) blessed
Cyprian aduises
Rogatianus, a good old Bishop, which was abused by a malapert Deacon, by the authority of his Chaire to right himselfe, and either to depose, or suspend the offender.
Leontius in
Socrates, is depriued of his Priesthood: yea, what Councell or Father giues not both rules and instances of this practice? See how farre the ancient Church was from these tumultuous fancies: No, no;
(M. R.) we well finde, it is doing that vndoes the Church, not suffering: If your fellowes could haue suffered more, and done lesse, the Church had beene happy: As for our Church-Officers, you may raile vpon them with a lawlesse safety: there is a great Ditch betwixt you and them: else you might pay deare for this sinne of slandering them with their cheape peny-worths: How idly doe you insult ouer those, whom your mony-changers, haue driuen out of their Pulpits: When you confesse (after all your valour) that they haue driuen you both out of Church and Country: who can pitty a miserable insulter?
SEP.
For the Wafers in
Geneua, and disorders in
Corinth, they were corruptions which may and doe (or the like vnto them) creepe into the purest Churches in the World: for the Reformation whereof Christ hath giuen his power vnto his Church, that such euils as are brought in by humane frailty, may by diuine authority bee purged out. This power and presence of Christ you want, holding all by homage (or rather by villanage) vnder the Prelates, vnto whose sinfull yoke you stoope in more than
Babylonish bondage, bearing and approuing by personall communion, infinite and abominations. And in these two last respects principally, your
Babylonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church, without separation, and your
Babylonish bondage vnder your spirituall Lords the Prelates, we account you
Babylon, and flie from you.
SECTION LI.
Power of Reforming abuses giuen to the Church: and the issue of the neglect of it.YOu that can grant there will be corruptions in all other Churches, will endure none in ours: If
England should haue either vnleauened Wafers, or drunken Loue-feasts (though no other blemishes) shee could not but bee
Babylon: We enuy not your fauours: These, or whatsoeuer like enormities, Christ hath giuen power vnto his Church to reforme: but what if the Church neglect to vse it? What if those euils, which are brought in, by humane frailty, will not by diuine authority be purged out?
Barr.
against Gyff. p.
27. &
88. Now the errour (by your doctrine) is growne fundamentall; so Christ is lost, and the foundation razed: if we shall then assume (against our friends, to conuince our enemies) The Church of
Geneua hath beene seriously dealt with, in this corruption, and disswaded by vehement importunity, yet still persisteth: How can you free them, and charge vs? see how we loue to be miserable, with company. This power to purge out all corruptions, Christ hath not giuen vs: if he hath giuen it you; you must first beginne to
[Page 599] purge out your selues: you haue done it; but still there remaine some:
Troubles and Excommunications at Amsterdam. An tu su
[...]s Ecclesia es
[...] Et qui te offenderit à Christo exclu
[...] tur. Hieron. Epiphan. Cypr. Solus in coelum ascend. Pup
[...]anus? Et ad Acesu
[...]m Nouatianum Constan. Erigita tibi scalam Acesi, & ad coelum solus ascendito. Socr. l.
1. c.
7. would God we had as much execution as power: Our Church should be as cleane as yours is Schismaticall. If you should measure faculties by their exercise; Naturall rest should be the greatest enemy to
[...]ertue: and the solitary Christian should be miserable: This power of ours is not d
[...]ad, but sleepeth: When it awaketh vnto more frequent vse, (which we earnestly pray for) looke you for the first handsell of it: None can bee more worthy: as it is, we offend not more in defect than you in excesse: Of whom that your
Laxarello of Amsterdam,
G. I. could say, that you haue Excommunication as ready as a Prel
[...]e hath a Prison: Christ is in many that feele him not; but we want not the power oney, but the presence of Christ: How so? he was with vs while you were here: Did he depart with you? will the Separatists ingrosse our Sauiour to themselues, and (as
Cyprian said of
Popianus) goe to Heauen alone? yea, confine the God of Heauen to Amsterdam? What insolence is this? we haue him in his Word: we haue him in his Sacraments: we haue him in our hearts: we haue him in our profession; yet this enemy dare say, wee want him: Wherein? I suppose in our censures: Wee haue
Peters keyes (as his true successors both in office and doctrine:) our fault is, that we vse them not as you would: What Church doth so? your first Martyr doth as zealously inueigh against the practise of Geneua,
Bar. Gyff. ref. So some of their owne haue termed their Excommunication. Confess. by
M. Iohns. Inquirie pag. 65. and all other Reformed Congregations in this point, as against vs: both for the woodden Dagger (as he termes it) of suspension, and for their Consistoriall Excommunication. Woe were to all the World, if Christ should limit his presence onely to your fashions: Here you found him, and here you left him▪ Would to God we did no more grieue him with our sins, than you please him in your presumptuous censures: in the rest, you raile against our Prelates and vs: Can any man thinke that Christ hath left peaceable spirits, to goe dwell with Railers? Indeed, yours is free-hold: so you would haue it: free from subiection, free from obedience: This is loosenesse, more than liberty: You haue broken the bonds, and cast the cords from you: but you mis-call ou
[...] tenure: Wee hate villenage no lesse than you hate peace, and hold
(in capite) of him, that is, the head of his body,
Coloss. 1.18. the Church
[...] vnder whose easie yoke wee doe willingly stoope in a sweet Christian freedome; abhorring and reprouing, and therefore (notwithstanding our personall Communion) auoiding all abominations: In these two respects therefore of our confusion, and bondage, wee haue well seene in this Discourse, how iustly your Sion accounts vs Babylon: since it is apparent for the one, that here is neither confusion, nor Babylonish, nor without separation: For the other, no bondage, no seruility: Our Prelates being our Fathers,
Amari Parens & Episcopus debet, non timeri. Hier. ad Theophilum. not our Masters: and if Lords for their externall dignity, yet not Lords of our Faith: and if both these your respects were so, yet so long as we doe inuiolably hold the foundation, both directly, and by necessary sequell; any Railer may terme vs, but no Separatist shall proue vs Babylon: you may flie whither you lift: would God yet further, vnlesse you had more loue.
SEP.
Master
H. hauing formerly expostulated with vs our supposed impietie in forsaking a ceremonious
Babylon in
England, proceeds in the next place, to lay downe our madnesse in chusing a substantiall
Babylon in
Amsterdam: and if it be so found by due triall as he suggesteth, it is hard to say, whether our impietie or madnesse bee the greater. Belike Master
H. thinkes wee gather Churches here by towne-rowes, as they doe in
England, and that all within the Parish Procession are of the same Church. Wherfore else tels he vs of
Iewes, Arrians and
Anabaptists, with whom we haue nothing common but the Streets and Market place? It is the condition of the Church to liue in the World, and to haue ciuill society with the men of his World,
1 Cor. 5.10. Ioh. 17.13.
But what is this to the spirituall Communion of the Saints, in the fellowship of the Gospell, wherein they are separated, and sanctified from the World vnto the Lord?
Ioh. 17.16. 1 Cor. 1. 2 Cor. 6.17, 18.
SECTION LII.
I Need no better Analyser than your selfe, saue that you doe not onely resolue my parts,
The veiw of the sinnes and disorders of others, whereupon obiected, and how far it should affect vs. but adde more: whereas euery motion hath a double terme, from whence and whither: both these could not but all into our discourse. Hauing therefore formerly expostulated with you for your (since you will so terme it) impietie, in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon of your owne making in England: I thought it not vnfit to compare your choice with your refusall; England with Amsterdam, which it pleaseth you to intitle a substantiall Babylon: impiety and madnesse are titles of your owne choice; let your guiltinesse be your owne accuser: The truth is, my charity and your vncharitablenesse haue caused vs to mistake each other. My charity thus: Hearing both at Middleburgh, and here, that certaine companies from the parts of Nottingham and Lincolne (which Harbinger had beene newly in Zeland before me) meant to retire themselues to Amsterdam, for their full liberty, not for the full approbation of your Church: not fauouring your maine opinions, but emulating your freedome in too much hate of our Ceremonies, and too much accordance to some grounds of your hatred: I hoped you had beene one of their Guides; both because Lincolneshire was your Countrey, and Master
Smith your Oracle, and Generall. Not daring therefore to charge you with perfect Brownisme, what could I thinke might bee a greater motiue to this your supposed change, than the view of our (so oft proclaimed) wickednesse, and the hope of lesse cause of offence in those forraine parts? this I vrged, fearing to goe deeper than I might be sure to warrant: Now comes my charitable Answerer, and imputes this easinesse of my challenge to my ignorance; and therefore will needes perswade his Christian Reader, that I knew nothing of the first separation, because I obiected so little to the second.
It were strange if I should thinke, you gather Churches there by Towne-rowes (as wee in England) who know that some one Prison might hold all your refined Flocke: you gathered here by Hedge-rowes; but there it is easier to tell how you diuide than how you gather: let your Church be an intire body, inioying her owne spirituall Communion, yet if it be not a corrosiue to your heart to conuerse in the same streets, and to bee ranged in the same Towne-rowes with Iewes, Arrians, Anabaptists, &c. you are to whit of kinne to him, that vexed his righteous soule with the vncleannesses of foule Sodme. That good man had nothing but ciuill societie with those impure Neighbours: hee differed from them in Religion, in practise; yet could he not so carelesly turne off this torment: His house was Gods Church; wherein they had the spirituall Communion of the Saints: yet whiles the Citie was so vncleane, his heart was vnquiet:
Separation from the world how required.
Iohn 17.16. We may (you grant) haue ciuill societie with ill men, spirituall Communion onely with Saints: Those must be accounted the world, these onely the Church; your owne allegations shall condemne you. They are not of the World (saith Christ) as I am not of the World: Both Christ and they were parts of the Iewish Church: The Iewish Church was not so sanctified, but the most were extremely vncleane: therefore wee may bee parts of a Visible vnsanctified Church; and yet bee separate from the World.
1
Cor. 1.2. Saint
Paul writes to his Corinthians, sanctified in Christ, Saints by calling: True;
1
Cor. 3.3. but not long after, he can say, Ye are yet carnall. In his second Epistle: Come out (saith he) from among them: But from whom? From Infidels by profession, not corrupted Christians.
SEP.
Wee indeed haue much wickednesse in the City where wee liue; you in the Church. But in earnest, doe you imagine wee account the Kingdome of
England Babylon, or the Citie of
Amsterdam Sion? It is the Church of
England, or State Ecclesiasticall, which wee
[Page 601] account
Babylon, and from which we withdraw in spirituall Communion: but for the Common-Wealth and Kingdome, as we honour it aboue all the States in the World, so would we thankfully imbrace the meanest corner in it, at the extremest conditions of any people in the Kingdome. The hellish impieties in the Citie of
Amsterdam, doe no more preiudice our Heauenly Communion in the Church of Christ, than the Frogs, Lice, Moraine, and other plagues ouer-spreading
Aegypt, did the
Israelites, when
Goshen the portion of their inheritance was free,
Exod. 8.19. nor than the Deluge, wherewith the whole World was couered, did
NOAH, when he and his Familie were safe in the ARke,
Genes. 7. nor than Satans throne did the Church of
Pergamus being established in the same Citie with it,
Reuel. 2.12, 13.
SECTION LIII.
THe Church and State, if they bee two, yet they are twins; and that so,
The neerenesse of the State & Church, & the great errours found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches. as eithers euill proues mutuall: the sinnes of the Citie not reformed, blemish the Church. where the Church hath power and in a sort comprehends the State; shee cannot wash her hands of tolerated disorders in the Common-Wealth: hence is my comparison of the Church (if you could haue seene it, not the Kingdome) of England, with that of Amsterdam: I doubt not, but you could bee content to sing the old song of vs,
Bona terra, mala gens: Our Land you could like well, if you might bee Lords alone. Thanks be to God it likes not you, and iustly thinks the meanest corner too good for so mutinous a generation: when it is weary of Peace, it will recall you. you that neither in Prison, nor on the Seas, nor in the Coasts of Virginia, nor in your way, nor in Netherland could liue in Peace, What shall wee hope of your ease at home? Where yee are, all you thankfull Tenants cannot in a powerfull Christian state moue God to distinguish betwixt the knowne sinnes of the Citie, and the Church: How oft hath our Gracious Soueraigne, and how importunately, beene sollicited for a Toleration of Religions? It is pittie that the Papists hyred not your Advocation: who in this point are those true
Cassanders,
Cassand. de Offic. boni viri. which Reuerend
Caluin long since confuted: Their wishes herein are yours: To our shame and their excuse: his Christian heart held that Toleration vnchristian and intollerable, which you either neglect or magnifie: Good
Constantine winkt at it in his beginning;
Bellar. de Laicis. Euseb. in vita Const. but as
Dauid at the house of
Zeruiah
[...]: Succeeding times found these Canaanites to bee prickes and thornes, and therefore both by Mulcts and banishments sought either their yeeldance or voydance. If your Magistrates hauing once giuen their names to the Church, indeuour not to purge this Augean Stable; how can you preferre their Communion to ours?
But howsoeuer now, lest wee should thinke your Land-lords haue too iust cause to packe you away for Wranglers, you turne ouer all the blame from the Church to the Citie; yet your Pastor and Church haue so found the Citie in the Church and branded it with so blacke markes, as that all your smooth extenuations cannot make it a lesse Babylon than the Church of England: Behold now, by your owne Confessions, either Amsterdam shall be, or England shall not be Babylon: These eleuen crimes you haue found and proclaimed in those Dutch and French Churches.
Fr. Iohns. Artic. against the French and Dutch Churches.
FIRST, That the Assemblies are so contriued, that the whole Church comes not together in one: So that the Ministers cannot together with the Flocke sanctifie the Lords day; the presence of the members of the Church cannot be knowne, and finally, no publike action, whether Excommunication, or any other, can rightly be performed. Could you say worse of vs? Where neither Sabbath can bee rightly sanctified, nor presence or absence knowne, nor any holy action rightly performed, what can there be but meere confusion?
SECONDLY, That they baptize the seede of them who are no members of any Visible Church; of whom moreouer they haue not care as of members, neither admit their Parents to the Lords Supper: Meere Babylonisme, and sinne in constitution, yea,
[Page 602] the same that makes vs no Church: for what separation can there bee in such admittance? what other but a sinfull commixture? How is the Church of Amsterdam now gathered from the World?
THIRDLY, That in the publike worship of God they haue deuised, and vsed another forme of Prayer, besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed,
Matth. 6. reading out of a Booke certaine Prayers inuented and imposed by man. Behold here our fellow-Idolaters: and (as followes) a daily Sacrifice of a set Seruice-Booke, which in stead of the sweet Incense of spirituall Praiers is offered to God; very Swines-flesh,
Barr.
against G
[...]ff. a new Portuise, and an equall participation with vs of the Curse of addition to the Word.
FOVRTHLY, That rule and commandement of Christ,
Matth. 18.15. they neither obserue, nor suffer rightly to bee obserued among them. How oft haue you said that there can bee no sound Church without this course, because no separation? Behold the maine blemish of England in the face of Amsterdam!
FIFTHLY, That they worship God in the Idoll Temples of Antichrist: so the Wine is marr'd with the Vessell; their seruice, abomination with ours: neither doe these Antichristian stones want all glorious ornaments of the Romish Harlot yet more.
SIXTLY, That their Ministers haue their set maintenance in another manner than Christ hath ordained, 1
Chron. 14. and that also such, as by which any Ministerie at all, whether Popish or other, might be maintained: Either Tythes, or as ill: Behold, one of the maine Arguments whereby our Ministerie is condemned as false and Antichristian, falling heauy vpon our Neighbours.
SEVENTHLY, That their Elders change yeerely, and doe not continue in their Office, according to the Doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the Primitiue Church: What can our Church haue worse than false Gouernors? Both annuall and perpetuall they cannot be: What is (if not this) a wrong in Constitution?
EIGHTLY, That they celebrate marriage in the Church, as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall Administration: a foule shame and sinne: and what better than our third Sacrament?
NINTHLY, That they vse a new censure of suspension which Christ hath not appointed: no lesse than English presumption.
TENTHLY That they obserue daies and times, consecrating certaine daies in the yeere to the Natiuitie, Resurrection, Ascension of Christ: Behold their Calendar as truely possessed: Two Commandements solemnly broken at once; and we not Idolaters alone.
ELEVENTHLY, which is last and worst, that they receiue vnrepentant Excommunicates to bee members of their Church, which by this meanes becomes one bodie with such as bee deliuered vnto Satan; therefore none of Christs bodie: England can bee but a miscelline rabble of prophane men;
H. Ainsworth in his Counterpoyson. The Dutch and French Churches are belike no better: who can be worse than an vnrepentant Excommunicate? Goe now, and say, It is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue communion with the World in the holy things of God, which are the peculiars of the Church, and cannot without Sacriledge bee so prostituted and prophaned; Goe say, that the Plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sinne rising vp in the foreheads of many in that Church, vnshut vp, vncouered, (yea, wilfully let loose) infects all both persons and things amongst them: Goe now and flie out of this Babylon also, as the He-Goates before the flocke, or returne to ours: But how-euer these errors be grosse, perhaps they are tractable; Not the sinne vndoes the Church, but obstinacie: here is no euasion. For behold, you doe no more accuse those Churches of corruption, than of wilfulnesse: for diuers times haue you dealt with them about these fearefull enormities: yea, you haue often desired, that knowledge thereof might bee by themselues giuen to the whole bodie of their Church, or that (at least) they would take order it might be done by you: They haue refused both; What remaines, but they bee our fellow-Heathens and Publicans? And not they alone, but all Reformed Churches beside in Christendome, which doe ioyntly partake
[Page 603] in all these (except one or two personall) abominations: will you neuer leaue, till you haue wrangled your selues out of the world?
But now I feare I haue drawne you to say, that the Hellish impieties both in the Citie and Church of Amsterdam, ar
[...] but Frogs, Lice, Flies, Murraine and other Aegyptian plagues, not preiudicing your Goshen: Say so if you dare; I feare they would soone make the Ocean your Red Sea, and Virginia your Wildernesse.
The Church is
Noahs Arke, which gaue safety to her Guests, whereof ye are part; but remember that it had vncleane beasts also, and some sauage: If the waues drowne you not, yet (me thinkes) you should complaine of noisome societie. Satans throne could not preiudice the Church of Pergamus: but did not the Balaamites (the Nicolaitans?) Yet their heauenly Communion stood, and the Angell is sent away with but threats.
SEP.
It is the will of God and of Christ, that his Church should abide in the world, and conuerse with it in the affaires thereof, which are common to both: But it is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue C
[...]nion wi
[...]h the World in the holy things of God, which are the peculiars of the Church, and
[...] without great sacriledge be so prostitute
[...] and prophaned.
SECTION LIV.
AS it were madnesse to deny that the Church should conuerse with the World in the affaires thereof: So to deny her Communion in Gods Holy things,
Conuersation with the World. with any of those of the World, which professe Christianity (as yet vnconsuted) is a point of An
[...]baptisticall Apostasie such
[...]f the World are still of the Church. As my censure cannot eiect them, so their sinne (after my priuate endeuour of redresse) cannot defile me: I speake of priuate Communicants: If an vnbidden Guest come with a r
[...]gged garment, and vnwashen hands, shall I forbeare Gods heauenly dainties▪ The Master of the Feast can say,
Friend, how camest thou in hither? not, Friends, why came you hither with such a Guest? God bids mee come: Hee hath imposed this necessity, neuer allowed this excuse:
Duobus nodis non te maculat malus, videlicet si non consentis, & si red
[...]guis. d.
23. q.
4. à mali
[...]. My teeth shall not beset on edge with the fowre Grapes of others: If the Church cast not out the knowne vnworthy, the sinne is hers: If a man will come vnworthy, the sinne is his: But if I come not, because he comes, the sinne is mine: I shall not answer for that others sinne: I shall answer for mine owne neglect: Another mans fault cannot dispense with my duty.
SEP.
The aire of the Gospell which you draw in, is nothing so free and cleare as you make shew: it is onely because you are vsed to it, that makes you so iudge. The thicke smoke of your Canons, especially of such as are planted against the Kingdome of Christ the visible Church, and the administration of it, doe both obscure and poison the aire, which you all draw in, and wherein you breathe. The pl
[...]g
[...]y spirituall
[...] of se
[...] rising vp in the forth
[...]ds of so many thousands in the Church, vnshut vp, vncouered, infects all, both persons and things amongst you,
Leuit. 13.45, 46, 47. 2 Cor. 6.17. The blasting Hierarchie suffers no good thing to grow, or prosper, but withers all, both bud and branch. The daily sacrifice of the Seruice-booke, which in stead of spirituall Prayer, swe
[...] as Incense, you offer vp Morning and Euening, smels so stron
[...] of the Popes Portuise, as it makes many hundreds amongst your selues, stop their noses as it; and yet you boast of the free and cleere aire of the Gospell, wherein you breathe.
SECTION LV.
The impure mixtures of the Church of England.AS there is no Element which is not through many mixtures departed from the first simplicity: So no Church euer breathed in so pure an aire, as that it might not iustly complaine of some thicke and vnwholsome euaporations of errour and sinne. If you challenge an immunitie, you are herein the true broode of the ancient Puritanes: But if too many sinnes in practise haue thickned the aire of our Church, yet not one Heresie: that smoke of the bottomlesse pit hath neuer corrupted it: and therefore iustly may I auerre, that here you might draw in the cleare aire of the Gospell: No where vpon earth more freely. And if this be but the opinion of custome, you whom absence hath helped with a more nice and dainty sent, speake your worst: Shew vs our Heresies, and shame vs: you haue done it, and behold foure maine infections of our English aire:
1. Canons. The first, the smoke of our Canons: Wittily: I feare, the great Ordinances of the Church haue troubled you more with the blow, than the smoke: For you tell vs of their Plantation against the Kingdome of Christ: What Kingdome? The visible Church: Which is that? Not the Reformedst peece of ours, whose best are but Goats and Swine: Not the close Nicodemians of your owne Sect amongst vs, which would be loth to be visible: Not forrainers; to them they extend not: None therefore in all the World, but the English Parlour-full at Amsterdam: Can there be any truer
Donatisme? Cry you still out of their poysoning the aire: We hold it the best cleansed by the batteries of your idle fancies, by ridding you from our aire, and by making this your Church inuisible to vs; smart you thus, till we complaine.
2. Sinne vncensured.The second is the plague or leprosie of sin vnshut vp and vncouered: We know that sinne is as ill as the Deuill can make it; a most loathsome thing in the eyes of God, and his Angels, and Saints: and we grant to our griefe, that among so many millions of men, there may be found some thousands of Lepers: Good Lawes and censures meet with some, others escape: It is not so much our fault as our griefe. But that this Leprosie infects all persons, and things, is shamefully ouer-reacht: Plague and Leprosie haue their limits, beyond which, is no contagion; If a man come not neere them,
Certè nullius crimen inaculat nescientem. Aug. Epist.
48. if he take the wind in an open aire, they infect not: such is sinne: It can infect none but the guilty: Those which act or assent to, or beare with it, or detest it not, are in this pollution: But those which can mourne for it, and cannot redresse it, are free from infection: How many foule Lepers spiritually did our Sauiour see in the publike aire of the Iewish Church? wherewith yet hee ioyned, and his, not fearing infection so much, as gracing the remnants of their ruinous Church: Were those seuen thousand Israelites,
1
Reg. 19.18. whose knees bowed not to BAAL, infected with the Idolatry of their Neighbours? yet continued they still parts of the same Church.
3. Hierarchie.But this yet exceeds: Not onely all persons, but all things? What? Our Gospell? Our Heauen, Earth, Sea? Our Bookes, Coyne, Commodities? Behold, you see the same Heauen with vs, you haue no Bibles but ours: our aire in his circular motion comes to be yours: the water that washeth our Iland, perhaps washeth your hands. Our vncleane Siluer (I feare) maintaines you: Our commodities (in part) in rich your Land-Lords: and yet all things amongst vs infected? you are content to take some euill from your neighbours.
The third is our blasting Hierarchie, which suffers no good thing (that is, no
Brownist, no singular fancy, for what good things haue we but yours?) to grow, or prosper amongst vs, but withers all, both bud and branch, would to God the root also. The last,
4. Seruice-booke. is a daily Sacrifice of a Seruice-booke: an Incense, how euer vnsauoury to you, yet such as all Churches in Christendome hold sweet, and offer vp as fit for the nostrils of the Almighty; we are not alone thus tainted; all Christian Churches that are, or haue beene, present the same Censers vnto God. But ours smels strong of the Popes Portuise:
[Page 605] See whether this be any better than triuiall cauilling: If
[...]ither an ill man, or a Deuil shal speake that which is good; may not a good man if it▪ If a good Angell,
Patres nostri non selum ante Cyprianum vel Ag
[...]ppinum, sed p
[...]stea salube
[...]rimam consuetudinem tenue
[...]unt, vt quicqu
[...]d diu. nil atque legitimum in aliqu
[...] haeresi vel si bismate in
[...]egrū reper
[...]ent,
[...]pprobent potius quàm negarent. August. or man shall speake that which is euill, is it euer the better for the Deliuerer? If Satan himselfe shall say of Christ; Thou art the Sonne of the liuing God, shall I feare to repeat it? Not the Author, but the matter in these things is worthy of regard: As
Ierome speakes of the poysoned Workes of
Origen, and other dangerous Treatisors, Good things may bee receiued from ill hands. If the matter of any Prayer be Popish, fault it for what it containes, not for whence it came▪ what say you against vs in this, more than Master
Smith (your from Anabaptist) saith of our baptizing of Infants: Both of them equally condemned for Antichristian. Still, therefore we b
[...]ast of the f
[...]ce, and cleere aire of the Gospell: if it bee annoyed with some practicall euills, we may be foule, the Gospell is it selfe, and our profession holy, neither can we complaine of all euills while we want you.
SEP.
That all Christendome should so magnifie your happinesse (as you say) is much, and yet your selues, and the best amongst you, complaine so much both in word, and writing, of your miserable condition, vnder the imperious and superstitious impositions of the Prelates, yea, and suffer so much also vnder them, as at this day you doe, for seeking the same Church Gouernment and Ministerie, which is in vse in all other Churches saue your owne. The truth is, you are best liked where you are worst knowne. Your next neighbours of
Scotland know your Bishops Gouernment so well; as they rather chuse to vndergoe all the miserie of bonds and banishment, than to partake with you in your happinesse this way, so highly doe they magnifie and applaud the same. Which choice I doubt not other Churches also would make, if the same necessitie were laid vpon them. And for your graces, we despise them not, nor any good thing amongst you, no more than you doe such graces and good things as are to be found in the Church of
Rome, from which you separate notwithstanding. We haue, by Gods mercy, the pure and right vse of the good gifts and graces of God, in Christs Ordinance, which you want. Neither the Lords people, nor the holy Vessels, could make
Babylon; Sion, though both the one and the other were captiued for a time.
SECTION LVI.
THat which followeth is but words, a short answer is too much:
The iudgment of our owne, and our neighbours of our Church. Socrat. l b.
1. c.
4. Constant. Alex. & Ario. Ac tamet si vos inter vos vicissim dere quap
[...]am m
[...]mini momenti dissentuis (siquidem neque omnes de omnibus rebus idem s
[...]ntimus) nihilominus tamen fieri poterit, vt eximia concordia sincere inter vos, integre
(que) seruetur, & vna inter omnes communio & consoc
[...]atio custo
[...]atur. That all Christendome magnifies the worthinesse of our Church, in so cleare euidences of their owne voices, you cannot denie; and now when you see such testimonies abroad (lest you should say nothing) you fetch cauills from home: Those men which (you say) complaine so much of their miserable condition vnder the Prelates impositions, haue notwithstanding with the fame pens and tongues not onely iustified our Church, but extold it: you haue found no sharper aduersaries in this very accusation, for which you maliciously cite them: How freely, how fully haue they euinced the truth? yea, the happinesse of the Church of England against your false challenges: and yet your forehead dare challenge them for Authors. So hath their moderation opposed some appendances, that they haue both acknowledged and defended the substance with equall vehemence to your opposition: neither doe they suffer (as you traduce them) for seeking another Church gouernment: looke into the Millenaries petition (the common voice of that part) I am deceiued▪ if ought of their complaints sound that way, much lesse of their sufferings; deformitie in practise is obiected to them, not indeauour of innouation; That quarrell hath beene long silent, your motion cannot reuiue it: would God you could as much follow those men in moderate and charitable carriage, as you haue out-run them in complaint.
It pleaseth you to deuise vs, like pictures vpon course Canuasse, which shew fairest at farthest; attributing forraine approbation (which you cannot denie) to distance,
[Page 606] more than to desert. How is it then, that (besides strange witnesses) we which looke vpon this face without preiudice, commend it, (God knowes) without flattery? wee can at once acknowledge her infirmities, and blesse God for her graces: Our neighbours, (yea, our selues) of
Scotland, know our Church so well, that they doe with one consent praise her for one of Gods best daughters; neither doe the most rigorous amongst them, more dislike our Episcopall Gouernment, than imbrace our Church: what fraud is this; to flie from the Church in common, to one circumstance? we can honour that noble Church in
Scotland, may we not dislike their alienations of Church-liuings? If one thing offend, doe all displease? Yet euen this Gouernment, which you would haue them resist to bonds and banishment (who knowes not?) begins to finde both fauour and place: what choice other Churches would make, as you doubt not, so you care not. If you regard their sentence, how durst you reuile her as a false Harlot, whom they honour as a deare Sister? If you were more theirs than we, you might vpbraid vs: Now you tell vs what perhaps they would doe; we tell you what they doe, and will doe: Euen with one voice; blesse God for England, as the most famous and flourishing Church in Christendome: your handfull only makes faces, & enuies this true glory. Who yet (you say) despise not our graces, no more than wee those of
Rome: See how you despise vs while you say, you are free from despite: How malicious is this comparison? as if wee were to you, as
Rome to vs: and yet you despise vs more: Wee grant
Rome a true Baptisme,
M.
Smiths retort vpon M.
Clifton, p. 50. true Visibility of a Church, though monstrously corrupted: you giue vs not so much: Thankes be to God, we care lesse for your censure, than you doe for our Church: We haue by Gods mercy the true and right vse of the Word and Sacraments, and all other essentiall gifts and graces of God; if there might be some further helps in execution, to make these more effectuall, we resist not: But those your other imaginary ordinances, as we haue not, so we want not: Neither the
Caldeans, nor any Idolatrous enemies could make
Sion Babylon, nor the holy vessels profane; so as they should cease to be fit for Gods vse: but they were brought backe at the returne of the captiuity, to
Ierusalem: Such were our Worship, Ministery, Sacraments, and those manifold subiects of your cauills, which whilst you disgrace for their former abuse, you call our good euill, and willingly despise our graces.
SEP.
Where the truth is a gainer, the Lord (which is truth) cannot bee a loser. Neither is the thankes of ancient fauours lost amongst them, which still presse on towards new mercies: Vnthankefull are they vnto the blessed Maiestie of God, and vnfaithfull also, which knowing the will of their Master doe it not, but goe on presumptuously in disobedience to many the holy ordinances of the Lord and of his Christ, which they know, and in word also acknowledge, he hath giuen to his Church to be obserued, and not for idle speculation, and disputation without obedience.
It is not by our sequestration, but by our confusion, that
Rome and Hell gaines. Your odious commixture of all sorts of people in the body of your Church, in whose lap the vilest miscreants are dandled, sucking her brests as her naturall children, and are be-blest by her (as hauing right thereunto) with all her holy things, as Prayer, Sacraments, and other Ceremonies, is that which aduantageth hell, in the finall obduration and perdition of the wicked, whom by these meanes you flatter and deceiue.
The
Romish Prelacie and Priesthood amongst you, with the appurtenances for their maintenance and ministrations, are
Romes aduantage. Which therefore she challengeth as her owne, and by which she also still holds possession amongst you, vnder the hope of regaining her full inheritance at one time or other. And if the Papists take aduantage at our condemnation of you, and separation from you: it concernes you, well to see where the blame is, and there to lay it; lest through light and inconsiderate iudgement, you iustifie the wicked, and condemne the righteous.
SECTION LVII.
ALL the sequell of my Answerer is meerely sententious:
The issue of Separation. it is fitter for vs to learne than replie: Where the truth gaines (say you) God loseth not: I tell you againe, where God loseth, the truth gaineth not, and where the Church loseth, God (which indowed her) cannot but lose: Alas, what can the truth either get or saue by such vnkinde quarrels? Surely suspition on some hands, on others reiection: for (as
Optatus, of his Donatists) betwixt our
Licet, and your
Non licet,
Inter licet vestrum, & non licet nostrum, nutant ac remigant animae Christianorum. Optat. co
[...]. P
[...]m. many poore soules wauer and doubt: neither will settle, because we agree not: Thanks are not lost, where new fauours are called for, but where old are denied. While your Poesie is: Such as the mother, such is the daughter; where are our old, our any mercies? They are vnthankfull, which know what God hath done, and confesse it not: They are vnthankfull to God and his Deputie, which knowing themselues made to obey, presume to ouer-ru
[...] and vpon their priuate authoritie, obtrude to the Church those ordinances to be obse
[...] ued, which neuer had being but in their owne idle speculation.
Your Sequestration and our confusion, are both of them beneficiall, where they should not: and as you pretend our confusion for the cause of your Separation; So is your Separation the true cause of too much trouble, and confusion in the Church: Your odious tale of commixture hath cloyed and surfeted your Reader already, and receiued answer to satietie: this one dish so oft brought forth, argues your pouertie: The visible Church is Gods Drag-not, and Field, and Floore, and Arke;
Non enim propter malos boni deserendi, sed propter bonos mali tolerandi sunt, &c. Sicut tolerauerunt Prophetae, &c. Aug. Ep.
48. Barr.
against Gyff. here will be euer at her best, Sedge, Tares, Chaffe, vncleane Creatures: yet is this no pretence for her neglect: The notoriously euill shee casts from her brest, and knee, denying them the vse of her Prayers, and (which your Leaders mislike) of her Sacrament. If diuers through corruption of vnfaithfull Officers, escape censure; yet let not the transgressions of some, redound to the condemnation of the whole Church. In Gods iudgement it shall not; we care litle, if in yours. Wee tell wicked men, they may goe to hell with the water of Baptisme in their faces, with the Church in their mouthes, we denounce Gods iudgements vnpartially against their sinnes, and them: Thus we flatter, thus we deceiue. If yet they will needs runne to perdition;
Perditio tua ex te Israel.
Our Clergie is so Romish as our Baptisme: If therefore Romish because they came thence, we haue disproued it: If therefore Romish, because they haue beene vsed there, wee grant and iustifie it; That ancient confession of their faith which was famous through the world, wee receiue with them: If they hold one God, one Baptisme, one Heauen, one CHRIST, shall we renounce it? Why should we not cast off our Christendome and humanitie, because the Romans had both? How much Rome can either challenge, or hope to gaine in our Clergie and Ministration, is well witnessed by the bloud of those Martyrs, eminent in the Prelacie, which in the fresh memories of many, was shed for God, against that Harlot: and by the excellent labours of others, both Bishops and Doctors: whose learned pens haue pulled downe more of the walls of Rome, than all the corner-creeping Brownists in the world shall euer be able to doe, while Amsterdam standeth. It is you that furnish these Aduersaries with aduantages, through your wilfull diuisions: Take
Scilurus his arrowes, single out of the sheafe, the least finger breakes them, while the whole bundle feares no stresse: wee know well where the blame is, our deseruings can be no protection to you: you went from vs, not we from you. Plead not our constraint, you should not haue beene compelled to forsake vs, while CHRIST is with vs: But who compells you not to call vs brethren? to denie vs Christians? your zeale is so far from iustifying the wicked, that it condemnes the righteous.
SEP.
And for the suspition of the rude multitude you need not much feare it. They will suspect nothing that comes vnder the Kings broad seale▪ They are ignorant of this fault. Though it
[...]ere the Masse that came with authoritie of the Magistrate, they (for the most part) would b
[...] wit
[...] out suspition of it: so ignorant and profane are they in the most places,
1 Sam. 10.10. It is the wise hearted amongst you, that suspect your dealings, who will also suspect you ye
[...] more, in your vnfound dealing shall be further discouered.
SECTION LVIII.
The Brownists scornefull opinioo of our people.HOw scornefully doe you turne ouer our poo
[...]e rude multitude, as if they were beasts, not men; or if men, not rude but sauage! This contempt needed not: These sonnes of the earth may goe before you to Heauen: Indeed it was of old said, that all Aegyptians were Physitians: So may it now of you; All Brownists are Diuines, no Separatist cannot prophesie: No sooner can they loose at the skirts of this hill, but they are rapt from the ordinarie pitch of men: Either this change is perhaps by some strange illumination, or else your learned paucitie got their skill amongst our profane and rude multitude: we haue still many in our rude multitude, whom wee dare compare with your Teachers: neither is there any so lewd and profane, that can not pretend a scandall from your separation: Euen these soules must bee regarded (tho not by you.) Such were some of you, but yee are washed, &c.
The wise-hearted amongst vs doe more than suspect, finde out our weaknesses, and bewaile them; yet doe they not more discouer our imperfections than acknowledge our truth: If they be truely wise, wee cannot suspect them, they cannot forsake vs: Their charitie will couer more, than their wisdome can discouer.
SEP.
Lastly, the terrible threat you vtter against vs, that
euen whoredomes, and murders shall abide an easier answer than separation, would certainely fall heavy vpon vs, if this answer were to be made in your Consistorie Courts, or before any of your Ecclesiasticall Iudges; but because we know, that not Antichrist, but Christ shall be our Iudge; we are bold vpon the warrant of his Word and Testament, (which being sealed with his bloud may not be altered) to proclaime to all the world Separation from whatsoeuer riseth vp rebelliously, against the Scepter of his Kingdome, as we are vndoubtedly perswaded, the Communion, Gouernment, Ministerie, and worship of the Church of
England doe.
SECTION LIX.
The Conclusion from the fearefull answ. of Separation. Troub. and excom. at Amst. G.
Ions. professes he found better dealing in the Bishops Consistories; & might haue found better in the Inqusition.
Ierom. Cypr. de simplit. praelat. Ad pacis praemium venire non poterunt, qui pacem Domini discordiae fur
[...]re ruperunt. Ibid. Inexpiaebilis & grauis culpa discord
[...]a, nec passione purgatur.MY last threat, of the easier answers of whoredomes, and adulteries, than Separation, you thinke to scoffe out of countenance. I feare, your conscience will not alwayes allow this mirth; Our Consistories haue spared you enough: let those which haue tryed, say, whether your corrupt Eldership be more safe Iudges: If ours imprison iustly, yours excommunicate vniustly; To be in custodie is lesse grieuous, than out of the Church; at least if your censures were worth any thing, but contempt: As
Ierome said of the like; it is well that malice hath not so great power as will: you shall one day (I feare) finde the Consistorie of Heauen more rigorous, if you wash not this wrong with your teares; That Tribunall shall finde your confidence, presumption; your zeale, furie. You are bold (surely more than wise) to proclaime: wee
[Page 609] haue no need of such cries: doubtlesse your head hath made Proclamations long, now you hand beginnes. What proclaime you? Separation from the Communion, Gouernment Ministery, and worship of the Church of England: what need it? Your act might haue saued your voice: what should our eyes and eares be troubled with one
[...].
But
[...]
[...]eparate you from these? Because they rise vp rebelliously against the Scepter of Christ: The Scepter of Christ is his Word: he holds it out, we
[...] and
[...]sse it: That one sentence of it doe we wilfully oppose? Away with these follish
[...] you
[...] a
[...] into your Sauiours hand, and say, Haile, King of the
Iewes, and will needs perswade vs, none but this is his rod of yron. Lastly, vpon what warrant? Of his will and Testament. You may wrong vs; But how dare you fasten your lies vpon your Redeemer and Iudge? What clause of his hath bid you separate? We haue the true Copies: As we hope or desire to be saued, we can finde no sentence that soundeth toward the fauour of this your act: Must God be accused of your wilfulnesse? Before that God and his blessed Angels and Saints, we feare not to protest that we are vndoubtedly perswaded, that whosoeuer wilfully forsakes the Communion, Gouernment, Ministery, or worship of the Church of England, are enemies to the Scepter of Christ, and Rebels against his Church and Anointed: neither doubt we to say, that the Mastership of the Hospitall at
Norwich, or a lease from that City (sued for with repulse) might haue procured that this separation from the Communion, Gouernment, and worship of the Church of England, should not haue beene made by IOHN ROBINSON.
FJNJS.