Babylons Defence broken down, and one of Antichrists Warriours Defeated. In an Answer to a Slanderous Pamphlet, Intituled, The Quaker-Jesuite, Or, Popery in Quakerisme, &c.
WHereas a Lying Pamphlet being come to my hands of William Brownswords, who professes himself to be a Minister of the Gospel at Kendal; but his Fruits and Practices doth rather demonstrate him to be a Minister of Anti-Christ, and of that Generation that cryed, Report, and we will report it, who ever did and doth report their lies, and slanders against the Innocent, to make the truth odious, who are of that generation that shuts the Kingdome of God against men, neither entering (by Christ the light) themselves, nor suffering them that would; but endeavours to perswade people that it is Popery, and dangerous to hearken to the light of Christ within them, and so endeavours to divert them from the means of recovery out of the shaddow of death and grosse darknesse, which hath over spread the whole world; out of which there is no way or means, but in and through Jesus, who is the true light of the world; and did so testify of himself, that all people might believe in him, to have Life and Salvation, who redeems mankind out of sin, and saves from destruction, and gives Eternal Life to as many as believes in him, and leads out of darknesse all them that follow him; in whose light all Nations of them that are saved must walk: In which light, is the Saints Union known, and the Blood of the Lamb witnessed, which was shed for many to remit sin. And thou who would instigate people against the light of Jesus, and endeavours to perswade that it is Popery to exhort people to hearken to the spirit of truth, or light of Christ in them; neither enters by him thy self, nor is willing to suffer others; but the day is appeared, and the [Page 4] everlasting light is manifesting which will discover all thy deceits, and thy refuge of lyes shall be swept away, and thy slanders will return upon thy own head, in the day when the Lord pleads with thee for all thy hard speeches, and rewards thee according to thy doings.
Whereas, Thou calls thy Pamphlet, the Quaker-Jesuite, Or, Popery in Quakerisme.
Answer, The people of God who are by the world, in scorne called Quakers, do deny thee and the Jesuites, and all theirs and thy doctrines, that are contrary to the truth, and distructive to mens salvation; and as for thy saying, there is Popery in Quakerisme; No Popery thou hast or canst prove to be amongst us, or any doctrines that's contrary to the holy Scriptures and Gospel of Christ; therefore will these thy sayings and slandrous words, that there is Popery in Quakerisme, return upon thy own head, and be thy burden at last, Except thou confess thy fault and Repent.
And whereas, thou further calls thy Pamphlet, A cleare discovery, that their doctrines, with their proofs and arguments, are fetch out of the Counsel of Trent, Bellarmine, and others.
Answ. Our doctrines which are the wholesome doctrines of the Gospel of Christ, which we have not received of man, neither were taught by men, but by the Revelation of Christ, are not fetch out of the Counsel of Trent, Bellarmine and others; but it is no wonder, that thou being blind, saith that our doctrines are fetch out of the Counsel of Trent, Bellarmine and others, when thou sayest those good and wholesome sayings, Of the holy Scriptures and Apostles of Christ, which thou thy self hast quoted as proofs, which we bring for our doctrines, are fetch out of the Counsel of Trent, Ballarmine and others, was the Counsel of Trent, Ballarmine and others, the Original of those Scriptures? or are they Popery? and we Papists for bringing them to beare testimony of our doctrines? Canst thou behold thy work again, and not be ashamed, when thou seest thy folly and Ignorance made manifest unto all that have the least measure of true knowledg? Is thy Pamphlet a cleare discovery, that our arguments are fetch out of the Counsel of Trent, when here is not not any of our arguments [Page 5] in all thy Pamphlet; but onely a few doctrines stated in such a manner, as hath pleased thee to state them; but our doctrines, which are the wholesome doctrines of truth, which thou hast not, nor canst not disprove; but thy own self hast quoted the Scriptures, which doth in effect prove the things of which we say. Therefore let that mouth be for ever stopped that sayth they and their proofs, which is the words of the holy Scriptures, are fetch out of the Councel of Trent, Bellarmine and others; And so thy slanders of us, and our doctrines, and the holy Scriptures, shall returne back upon thy own head, until thou confess thy folly and repent, and do no more so wickedly.
And thou further saith, that their practises are fetcht out of the Rules of Popish Monks.
Answ. It is utterly false, for our practises have we not received as traditions from them, neither do we walk by their rules, but by the rules of the Spirit of Truth, by which we are led from that which is evil, and through which we receive power to practice that which is good, which spirit is become our leader into all truth, and will abide with us for ever.
Whereas thou begins thy Disswasive Exhortation; saying, Beloved, The respect that I beare to your Souls, the Trvth's, and Church of Christ, much endangered by secret and unweared actings of the Emissaries of Rome.
Answ: Though thou dost endeavour in this thy Disswasive Exhortation, to perswade the Inhabitants of Kendall; That wee called Quakers, are Romes Emissaries; by which the Truths of Christ are much endangered; yet, Romes Emissaries we are not, neither are the Truths of Christ endangered, or opposed by us, as thou thy self hast confessed in the fourth position of the leaventh page of thy Pamphlet; where thou confesseth, Wee never opposed any fundamental truths that thou heardest of; Therefore in this position, thou hast cleared us from being Romes Emissaries by which truth is indangered, which in thy Disswasive Exhortation, thou hast endeavoured to perswade the Inhabitants of Kendall wee are, Here the Inhabitants of Kendall may see thy envy and confusion, who would have them to believe, That wee are such by whom the truth is endangered; [Page 6] And yet thy own tongue in contradicting thy envious disswasion is made to cleare us, saying, That wee never opposed any fundamental truths that ever thou heardest of, which is truth, For fundamental truths wee have not opposed at any time; And as concerning the Church of Christ; I say this; It is builded upon the Rock, which Romes Emissaries, nor the gates of Hell can never prevaile against; For all who are of the true Church and body of which Christ Jesus is the head, and in his light dwells and walks, by it they see and is able to diserne betwixt Truth, and Error, the doctrines of Christ, and the doctrines which are preached by the Papi [...]s and thee, which thou wouldest instigate into the inhabitants of Kendall, to cause them to believe that we their country men, well known to some of them are Papists and that our doctrines are Popery; but all thy labour in slandring us, is in vain, and thy asserting that our doctrines are Popery, to no purpose; for thou neither hast, or ever canst confute them by the holy Scripture and Truth, therefore in the end thy slanders will returne upon thy own head, and unrighteous sayings be thy burden, whereas, thou speaks of a Quaker Jesuite at Bristol, mentioned by Mr. Prynne as thou calls him; That his sayings was made appear to be false and a slander, I shall refer the Reader to the Answer of his scandallous paper, Intituled, The Quakers unmasked, Put forth by William Prinne, wherein his slanders is made to appear, and he is found with a lye in his mouth.
Whereas thou goes on; saying, occasioned a late serious publique disswasive of you from the Church and Doctrines of Romes under what name soever, and by whomsoever they were propounded to you, and especially as they are propounded by the Quakers.
Answ. It is utterly false, to say the Quakers propounds Romes Doctrines, either to the Inhabitants of Kendal, or any other people; for no other doctrines have we preached, but the doctrines of Christ, which we are able to prove, and maintaine by the sound Arguments of Truth and Scriptures, to be the doctrines that tends to the Salvation of Souls; And when thou writes again, give under thy hand positively, what doctrines they are, thou calls Romes doctrines, propounded by the Quakers: and name the man or men that is owned to be Ministers [Page 7] of Christ among us, that thou call'st Quakers that did propound or preach them: and till then, let this slander reture into the uncleane bottle, from whence this, and all the rest of thy slanders hath come.
And thou sayest, the charge of false-hood against me by them, hath produced this demonstration of the truth of what I had publiquely asserted, which I hope will tend to settle you against their way.
Answ. This demonstration of Lies and Slanders, doth not any way clear thee, from my charge against thee, in the [...]ight of any, who rightly understands the controversy betwixt thee and us, but rather is an adding sin to sin, and a heaping up wrath unto thy self, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the righteous judgement of God; for the thing that was desired of thee by me, was, as thou behind our backs had devulged publiquely in the Steeple-House, that our principles and doctrines was Popery, That thou would give us a faire Meeting, where all might heare the discourse betwixt ther and us; And if thou could by the Scriptures prove our doctrines to be Popery, or contrary to the Scriptures, and distructive to mens Salvation, then would we lay them down; if not, (but we on the contrary, could manifest our doctrines to be truth, and according to the Scriptures) then as thou had publiquely spoken against our doctrines calling them Popery; thou shouldest publiquely confess thy fault; and this was the substance of what I said to thee in the street of Kendal; and thou being not able to manifest that to be true, which thou had publiquely asserted concerning our principles and doctrines, this charge is still good against thee, till thou publiquely acknowlege thou hast wronged us.
And whereas thou further sayest, in these doctrines which are peculiarly Romes, doth the doctrines of the Quakers conspire, and may therefore be called Popery without falsehood.
Answ. I say of this as of the rest of thy slanders, that it is altogether untrue, for no doctrines do we preach and hold forth, but the doctrines of the Gospel of Christ; and for the defence of them and manifestation that they are true against thee, and all that oppose them; we can bring pertinent testimonyes out of the holy sayings of the Prophets, Christ and his Apostles Words, who preached the same Gospel and Doctrines [Page 8] before us; and no doctrine of ours, if rightly stated, and as we preach them, hast thou parallel'd with the Papist and thier doctrines, but thou mightest as well have parallel'd the doctrine of the Apostles, with the doctrine of the Papist, as it will after more fully appear in our own stating, the vindication and proof of our doctrines to be true, which thou hast not, neither ever canst confute or disprove by the truth or Scriptures; Therefore thy slander of our doctrines will returne back upon thy selfe, having replyed against some of thy slanders and untruths, cast upon us and our doctrines; I shall go on to the right stating, and more full manifestation of our doctrines, to be the sound and wholesome doctines of Truth; though thou hast parallel'd them with the Papists, that it may appear more fully, that wherein thou hast parallel'd our doctrines, with any thing they say which is truths in themselves, thou might as well a parallel'd the Apostles with them, because they may hold some of the same truths in the unrighteousnesse which the Apostles held forth, and we hold in the righteousnesse, and thou thy self confesses they hold some truths.
I. Doctrine, that light which John came for a witnesse of, that all men through his testimony might believe, which doth light every man that comes into the world, which is Jesus. Is sufficient to convince of sin, and lead to repentance all them th [...] to his call hearken; and is able to save to the utmost, all them that his light, love and obey; for the Author to the Hebrews, speaking concerning Jesus the true light of the world; that lighteth every man, saith he, being made perfect he became the Author of Eternal Salvation to all them that obey him, Heb. 4. 9. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, Heb. 7. 25.
II. Doctrine, we say that the perfection of the Saints was and is attainable in and through Christ, even while they were and are upon the Earth, or else the work for which the true Ministry was given, had been void, if the work for which they were begifted among the Saints, (which was, Ephes. 4, 11, 12, 13. For the edifying of the body of Christ, till they came all to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the Stature of the fulness of Christ.) Could not have been accomplished while they were upon the Earth, but Saints are redeemed from Sin, and have escaped the pollutions [Page 9] of the world, and by the word of God are sanctified according to what the Apostle saith, 1 Cor. 6. 11. Such were some of you, but you are washed; but you are sanctified, but you are justified; in the name of our Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. And Jude in his general Epistle to the Saints, saith, they are santified by God the Father, and preserved in Christ Jesus; And the Author to the Hebrews speaking of himself and the Saints, saith, by the will of God we are sanctified, through the offering of the body of Christ once for all, Heb. 10. 10. And the same Author saith in the 14th of the same chapter, by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified, and yet he and the Saints that was sanctified and perfected for ever, even while they were upon the earth, and preached it, and exhorted the Saints to press after it, were not Papists, nor rightly could be compared with Idolators in their Generation; no more can we that preacheth perfection, and exhort to press after it, and believe it to be attainable in and through Christ, be rightly compared to the Papists in our Generation.
And as concerning the third, which thou states as out of our Doctrines, in which thou compares us with the Papists, we do deny it; it is not any of our Doctrines, either held or preached by us, as thou hast stated it; and in stating, that we hold Justification by obedience, thou hast not done honestly; was not thou formerly answered? that we are not justified by any obedience that is of the Creature, but by the free gift of God in Christ. Therefore I further say, that we are not justified by our obedience, or for our obedience; but in and through the Lord Jesus Christ to whom we are obedient.
Whereas thou further saith, and eminent speaker among them in the hearing of multitudes, asserted, that the righteousness that was wrought by the Power of God in the hearts of the Gentiles, mention'd Rom. 2. 14. 15. is a righteousnesse whereby they were justified in the sight of God; Answ. To this I say concerning the Gentiles, in doing well and working righteousnesse, they were accepted and justified in the sight of God, according to that of the Apostle, where he saith, God is no respecter of persons, but in every Nation he that fears him and worketh righteousnesse is accepted with him, Acts 10. 34. 35. Whereas thou sayest in [Page 10] the hearing of multitudes, why dost thou call so few people as were there multitudes, except thou would have some to believe, thou gave us a fair meeting in some publique place, which thou denyed to do, though much urged to it, but it is no wonder seeing thou had accused our doctrines to be Popery, and our practices to be fetcht out of the rules of Popish Monks; altogether without any true ground, as is and will be fully manifest by the proof of our doctrines to be sound and true, and our practices to have example among the Prophets and Ministers of Christ.
And whereas thou accuses James Naylor in the fifth page of his Book, tituled The salutation to the Seed, To say the Doctrine of Faith is the work of the Devil.
Answ. Thy Accusation is utterly false, as that page of his Book, and all that reads it may bear Testimony against the [...].
And whereas in the fourth thou speaks of Judas, Being a godly man until Christ gave him the Sop, the Devil thereupon entered into him.
Answ. In that thou hast stated these words again thou hast not done honestly, because thou hast formerly been answered, that we did not own this Principle as it is stated, (to wit) That Judas was a godly man till he received the Sop; and we had ground for the denying of this Principle and others as they were stated, because the young men themselves did affirm, they were not so written as they spoke them; but this we do affirm, that Judas who was numbred with the Apostles, and had obtained part of the Ministry, and others fell away; as we can fully prove by the Scriptures of truth, where it is said Acts 1. 25. That he may take part of this Ministry, from which Judas by transgression fell; and Heb. 4. 5, 6. and 2 Pet. 2. 20, 21, 22. where it it is said, It had been better for them not to have known the way of Righteousness, then after they have known it, to turn from the holy Commandment delivered unto them, but it is happened unto them according to the true Proverb, the Dog is turned to his vomit again, and the Sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire; more Scriptures might have been mentioned, as Ezek. 18. 24. and others; but by the mouth of two or three witnesses every truth shall be confirmed, but these Scriptures I have not [Page 11] asserted, to plead for falling away from grace and truth, but to beare witnesse to the truth of our judgement in this particular, and to manifest the wickednesse of our adversary, who counts that Popery, that is plain Scriptures, as some of which he himself hath quoted, doth bear testimony; but it is no wonder, seeing he saith, the proofs themselves which is Scriptures, is fetcht out of the Councel of Trent, Bellarmine and others.
Fifthly, that Pagans, and Turks, living justly and honestly, may be justified and saved.
To which I say further, that there is no respect of persons with God, but in every Nation, whether they be Jewes, or Gentiles, Turks, or Pagans, yet if they fear God and work righteousnesse, of him they are accepted, and whether he be a Turk, or Pagan, if he come to believe in Christ, and follow his Spirit and light, which leads to live justly and honestly, he may be justified and saved in and through Christ; And this doctrine is no Popery, nor rightly can be parallel'd with theirs, any more than the Apostles doctrine; was to be parallel'd with the Papists, Acts 10. 34. where Peter saith of a truth, I perceive that God is no respecter of persons.
Sixthly, where thou sayest, there is no absolute decree of Election, and reprobation from Eternity, and sayest, see a late Confession of Faith by Burroughs.
To this I say there is no such position in his confession of faith, as thou here hath asserted; but that we do believe that their is a state of Election and Reprobation, as is there confest, and faithfully acknowledged.
Seaventhly thou sayest, that the Scriptures are not the Rule, this is charged upon them by the Ministers of New-Castle, as thou sayest.
To this I say, as many as are begotten of the immortal seed to a lively hope, by the word of God which abides for ever; are his sons and children, and such are led by the Spirit of God, and it is their rule and not the letter; Rom. 8. 14. and yet such are not Papists, nor to be parallel'd with Bellarmine, who shews the Scriptures are not necessary, for they acknowledge that they are necessary, that the man of God may be perfect, and [Page 12] throughly furnished, unto all good works, 2 Tim. 3. 17.
Eighthly, thou compares us to the papists, for saying the baptisme of Infants is not to be proved by the Scripture, and quotes Bellarmine for calling it a tradition, that's no where written.
To this I say though we are no Papists, yet I believe that Bellarmine confesses in this thing more truth than thou, for it is very like it is a tradition, which in its beginning was instituted by the Papists Church; yet however this I am sure of, that it is not recorded in the Scriptures of truth, that ever God commanded it, or any of his Ministers whom he sent forth practiced it, therefore the Papist and thou that preaches it up as an ordinance of God, is required to prove (if you can) when God ordained it, or any of his Apostles practiced it, and if you cannot, Confess you have taught for ordinances, mens traditions, and seeing the Papists do confesse it is a tradition, well may you Protestants doe the same, for you had the practice of sprinkling Infants from them, and in this you have drunk the whores cup.
Ninethly, whereas thou sayest, that one day of seaven which we call the Lords day, is no more than any other day, and that it is without divine Authority.
To this I say further, there is no command of God in the Scriptures, for observing the first day of the week as a Sabboth of rest, by ceasing from all bodyly labour, of man servant, or maid servant, cattle and stranger that is within our gates, as there was a command of God to the Jewes to observe the seaventh day, and keep it holy to the Lord for a Sabboth of rest to them; their sons and daughters, man-servants, and maid-servant, cattel, and stranger, that was within their gates, which Sabboth unto them was a signe: and thou further sayest, we make it Tipecal, in which thou compares us to Bellarmine, which comparison is altogether unequal, for though Bellarmine counted it Tipical, yet we make it not Tipecal, for it was the seaventh day, and not the first day which we say was a signe: and concerning the first day of the week, if thou hold that it was commanded by divine Authority, as the seaventh day once was; when thou writes again, shew when it was commanded, and where the holy Scriptures testifies of any such Command.
Tenthly, whereas thou sayest, that we say the Lords Supper as administred in your Churches, is nothing but a bit of bread and wine, and that we speak scornfully of it.
To this I say, when thou writes again, I desire thee to shew us an example if thou canst, where ever the Apostles and true Church mett together in a Steeple House, or Idolls Temple, and broke bread in such a form and manner among unconverted people as you do? calling it the Lords Supper, or a Sacrament? but the Lords Supper, which is so in truth we do freely own; and whereas thou compares us with the Papists, in saying, we speak scornfully of that which you call the Lords Supper; in this I say, thy comparing of us with them is altogether unequal, for we do not speak scornfully of it; but where we see either the Papists, or you in an error, we do rather pitty you than scorn you; and desires that you may be recovered out of all error, and be saved in the day of the Lord; yet we do despise and reject the vain traditions of men, which is practised for the worship of God by you.
Eleventhly, thou sayest, that wee affirm that Protestants Ministers, are no Ministers of Christ, that we use the vilest Language against you; that we can invent, deny your call, and say you came from Rome, &c.
Answ. If thou meanest by Protestant Ministers; of such of you, as seeks for your gain from your quarters, and Preaches for hire, and makes a bargain for so much a year, these practices, being the same as the false Prophets and Papists are in, doth in some measure demonstrate that your begining was from Rome, for no example can you shew for those practices aforementioned, among all the Holy Prophets or Ministers of Christ, that have been since the begining.
And whereas thou sayest, that we use the vilest language that we can invent against you.
I Answer, this is utterly false, for no vile language do we use or invent against you; but the language of truth, telling you plainly without flattering of the evil of your wayes, that you may repent, and in thus doing we have the holy Prophets of old for our example.
Twelfly, that we have the same spirit of Infallability, that the Apostles had.
To this I say further, both we and all Gods children, who are of the little flock, have the same Infallible Spirit, according to its measure and manifestation, which is given to every child of God to profit withall, 1 Cor. 12. 7. and both thou, and all that say they have it not, but counts it Popery, for any to confess they have it, art so far from being a Minister of Christ, that both thou and they that have it not, are not yet of his flock, for the Apostle saith plainly, if any man have not the spirit of Christ, he is none of his, Rom. 8. 9. and yet he was no Papist, nor with them to be parallel'd, no more are we that confesse we have the Spirit of Christ.
I having rightly stated, and vindicated our doctrines against thy slanders, and proved them by the holy Scriptures to be the wholesome and sound doctrines of the Gospel; I shall go on to lay open, and reply against thy slanders and falsities concerning us, in which thou hast compared us with the Popish Monks; but it had been more wisdome, and more like a Minister of Christ, to enquired truly into our practices, before thou had given judgement upon us, or have compared us to the Popish Monks, in whose discipiline thou sayest, we seem to be admirably instructed, as will appear by thy following parallels.
Answ. those false parallels, and thy unrighteous judgement of us without knowledge, will not make it appear that we are instructed in the practice and discipline of Popish Monks; whose practice and discipline we deny, but rather will discover thy folly, and manifest thy unrighteous judgement concerning our practices; for which we have example out of the holy Scriptures.
First, thou sayest, we lay much stress upon mean and plaine Apparel.
Answ. Thou hast altogether mist in this thy judgement of us, for no stresse do we lay upon any visible thing for salvation; but in and through Christ onely and alone, have wee Salvation and life Eternal; and as for apparel and rayment wee take no thought, and whether it be mean or not mean apparel which the Lord affords us, with it we are content, yet our Religion that wee are of, doth keep us out of the vanities and [Page 15] pride of the world, of which their foolishnesse in apparel doth many times signify.
Secondly thou sayest, that we practice silence, especially at some times, and lay much of our Religion upon it.
Answ. Thy judgement in this thing; as in many others altogether false, for our Religion did we never lay upon silence, yet we have practiced, and do practice, waiting in the will and council of God, until his mind and word be revealed to us, whereby we may edify, and build up one another in the most holy faith, upon that foundation of the Prophets and Apostles, Christ Jesus himself being the cheif Corner Stone.
Thirdly thou sayest, that we practice fasting much, in our entrance upon this way, and afterwards as a special means of spiritual knowledge, viz. James Parnell in Colchester Goal.
Answ. That we have practiced fasting and prayer, that wee shall not deny but freely confesse; yet in so doing, wee are no more to be compared to the Monks, than was those holy men to be compared with them, (to witt) David, and Daniel, and many others that might be Instanced, Psal. 109. 24. where David saith, my knees are weak through fasting, and my flesh fails of fatnesse, and Dan. 10. 3. where he saith, I eat no pleasant bread, neither came flesh or wine within my mouth, neither did anoynt my self at all, till three whole weeks were fulfill'd; these holy men, and many more have wee for our Example, which if they were now upon Earth, would be judged to be Popish Monks, by that spirit which now judges us, and thou sayest, afterwards as a special means of spiritual knowledge.
In this as in the rest, thou hast given false judgement altogether, though we have practiced fasting and prayer; yet wee never estemed it, as the special means of spiritual knowledge. And whereas thou further speaks of James Parnel, in Colechester Goal; To this I say, the blood of the Innocent servant of the Lord, will come upon this Generation of hireling Priests, and envious Teachers, who hath been a great cause of stirring up the Magistrates, to all the persecutions and sufferings, that have been afflicted upon the servants of the Lord, who have not counted their lives dear unto themselves, that they might finish their course with joy, and testimony, which they [Page 16] had received of the Lord Jesus, but have even laid down their lives, as a seal of their testimony, as James Parnel, and others.
Fourthly thou sayest, we run up and down naked, though not constantly, but at sometimes.
Answ. I say, thou canst no more truly compare them that have gone naked in obedience to the command of the Lord, for a signe and a wonder unto the world, (whose false coverrings must be stript off, and all their secret evills manifest, and their shame made openly to appear) to the Grandfather of the Jesuits in this age, than thou canst compare, Isaiah and Micah, true prophets to Idolaters in their age, who went naked and barefoot three years, for a signe and a wonder upon Egypt, and Ethiopia, Isaiah 20. and the true Prophet Micah, who said, I will waile and howl, and go stript and naked, Micah 1. 8.
Fifthly thou saith, we cast off respect due to our Parents and Relations, witnesse the complaint I have heard of some of their Parents against them.
Answ. Whatsoever thou hast heard, The practice of the obedience of many children to their Parents, may be a witnesse against thee; that they do not cast of the respect due to their Parents and Relations, many of their Parents would even testify the same, that their children who walks in the truth, unto them is not disobedient.
Sixthly thou sayest, we ascribe great perfection to our selves, calling all other men the men of the world, but saith, they themselves are perfect.
Answ. This assertion of thine concerning us, is absolutely false, as thy others hath been; for unto selfe, or our selves, wee do not ascribe any perfection, but say that perfection is attainable, in and through Christ onely, who teaches us, and all that follow him, to deny our selves, though thou hast said concerning us, that they themselves are perfect; and hast asserted that thy self, for which thou would condemn us, of which we are not guilty, and so this slander of us will returne back upon thy self, (that we ascribe perfection to our selves) as the others hath done.
Seaventhly thou sayest, Quakers lay claim to vision and Revelations, [Page 17] and boasts more of inward spiritual discoveries, than other men.
Answ. Wee must confesse, that we have seen visions, and have had revelations, by which the mind of God hath been known, and the things of his Kingdom opened to us, and in us, yet hast thou no more true ground to compare us to Monks and Nuns, because we have had true visions, than thou hast to compare Abraham and Jacob and others, to the Monks and Nuns; for the word of the Lord came to Abraham in a vision, saying, I am thy Shield, and exceeding great Reward, Gen. 15. 8. 1. and the vision of Isaiah the Son of Amos, which he saw concerning Juda and Jerusalem, Isai. 1. 1. but thy saying, that we boast of more spiritual discoveries than other men; It is utterly false, for of such things we do not boast, and thou goes on telling of one grosly dealt with by an evill spirit, and thou sayest, witnesse John Gilpin, To this I say, all lying visions and dreams, and such as are dealt with, and led with the evill spirit, as was John Gilpin, we do deny; for he never was of us, but a prophane man of the world, and one with the hirelings against us.
Eightly, thou sayest, they place their Religion in meer circumstances and formalities, leaving off of hattbands, ribbons, lace, thou-ing persons, but are wanting, in the true esteem of the true practice of Religion.
Answ. Thy assertion, that we place Religion in those things aforementioned, is utterly false, as the rest of thy assertions of us, and our Religion hath been; for our Religion is not placed in Circumstances, as thou hast falsly asserted, but in the Power of God, by which we are kept unspotted from the world. And whereas thou accuseth us, to be wanting in the esteem of true practices of Religion; when thou writes again, set downe in particular what those practices are, which thou calls, or can prove to be the true practices of Religion, which thou accuses us, to be wanting in the esteem of.
Ninethly thou sayest, they carry a shew of self-denial, abnegation of the world, contempt of riches, envy against the Ministers of Christ, for having maintenance, as if themselves had nothing; yet thrives fast, payes their debts, makes purchases, getts good Estates, wear of late rich Cloaths.
Answ. Thy assertion in this is utterly false, as the rest have been, for we do not envy against the Ministers of Christ for having maintenance, but acknowledge that they that preach the Gospel may live of the Gospel, according to Gods Ordinance, and they that sow spiritual things, may reap carnal things; but having food and rayment, are therewith to be content, and there is no example amongst them, for being hired at a Parish, or making a bargain for so much as fourescore, or a hundred pounds, more or less as they can get it by the year, or tithes of all the people possesses, as the hireling Priests and Papists in England have done; and for thy saying, they thrive fast, and paying depts, and gets good estates; to which I say, when thou writes again, instance one that is owned as a Minister amongst us, (that through gain made of the Ministry) who had nothing, that hath done any of these things aforementioned, and till then, let this slander returne back upon thy self, as the rest have done, and if God blesse any of his people with outward encrease, why doest thou envious wretch reproach them because of Gods mercyes? Thou sayest further, that we wear rich Cloaths. To this I say, how fully hast thou contradicted thy self, in the first of thy assertions, in which thou parallel'd us with the Monks, in thy saying, that we lay much stress upon plain and mean apparel, and now hast so far forgotten thy selfe, that the same tongue saith now, we weare rich Cloaths, but in this thy envy against the truth is manifest; and however they go that walk in it, whether well in cloaths, or mean in cloaths, it will not please thee, nor the envyous generation that loves not their neighbour as their selves.
And further thou tells, of having stocks of money; out of which thou supposes we have great and large sumes, when wee have a mind to travel.
To which I shall answer, thy supposition is false, as the rest of thy sayings have been; and if there be any such thing as stocks of money for the maintaining of the poor, and other necessary uses among Friends; is not this of good report, and like Saints, more than they in your Churches, where your Members is like to starve, and begs?
Tenthly thou sayest, wee are a seduced people, and active in [Page 19] seducing others, being ignorant and unlearned, yet an importunant, and unweared people, compassing Sea and Land, to make one proselyte, yet not for themselves, but for those Sophisters of Rome, whose factors they are.
Answ. This is altogether false, as the rest of thy slanders have been, for Romes Factors we are not, nor for them do we make proselytes.
And for thy saying, that we are a seducing people, and acting in seducing others; I Answer, this is altogether false, as thy other assertions concerning us hath been, for we are not seduced, nor active in seducing others; nor yet ignorant and unlearned in the things that appertains to Gods Kingdome, our Salvation, and the Salvation of them that hears us.
Eleaventhly, thou sayest, now I hope I have made it evident, that the hand of a Jesuite is in the Quakers Religion; how could they else be so well verst in their absur'd doctrines?
Answ. The hope of the hypocrite is vain, and his trust is like the spiders web, for thou neither hast, or can manifest the hand of of a Jesuite to be in our Religion; nor any doctrine that is truly ours, hast thou manifest to be absur'd, or proved to be contrary to the truth and doctrines of the Gospel of Christ; But it is manifest, thou art verst in the Papists writings and doctrines, otherwise thou could not have stated so many of them, and their practices; therefore thy saying that we are verst in their absur'd doctrines, is false, and may returne upon thy self, who art guilty therein: and thou goes on saying, I will conclude with a re-inforcement, of my disswasive of you, from their doctrines and practices; They are from Antichrist, therefore avoid them.
Answ. Our doctrines, which is the doctrines of truth, and our practices, for which we have example among the Prophets and Ministers of Christ; all the lyes and slanders, which thou and all the Merchants of Babylon can cast upon us, or upon our doctrines, cannot disswade from our way, (which is the way of God) any of them who hath the least measure of true knowledge; therefore the adding thy reasons, as thou calls them, to imprint in people, a deep hatred against our way, which is truth, shall not be effectual, for thy refuge of lyes shall be swept [Page 20] away; and unrighteous slanders turned back upon thy own head, in the dreadful day of the Lord when he rewards thee, and all the wicked according to their doings.
In the first of thy reasons, thou sayest, they are miserably divided among themselves about their principles.
Answ. This is false, for we who are in the truth, and walks in the light, have unity, and are not divided amongst our selves about our principles; though we did deny several of those things, as they were stated, having good reason so to do, because they were stated in thy manner, and as thou our adversarie pleased to state them and the young men affirm not in the very same words, and form as they spoke them. Whereas thou sayest, the fourth of these reasons was again owned in a discourse, (viz) that we are justified by obedience; To which I say, it is utterly false, for no such thing was owned by any of us, neither of it was there any discourse betwixt thee and us that day.
And whereas thou further calls it a contradiction, to say that every man is lighted with the true light which is Christ. And yet not spiritually enlightned with the knowledge of God.
Answ. In this, thy ignorance, and want of understanding in the things of God, is manifest; in calling that a contradiction, which is no contradiction; for both these sayings in effect may be proved by plain words of Scriptures, as John 1. 9. where it is said, that was the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world; and Jeremiah saith, poure out thy wrath upon the heathen that know thee not, Jer. 10. 25. So it is evident, that the heathen know not God, therefore may it truly be said, without contradicting Johns testimony, that every one is not enlightned with the spiritual knowledge of God, though that testimony is true, that saith, the true light that lighteth every man, yet every man doth not believe in, and receive the light which manifesteth those evil deeds, for which he is reproved; therefore every man hath not the knowledge of God, because some rejects his Light which would give the knowledge of him.
And thou goes on and sayest, their doctrines which they broach with confidence, among their silly credulous followers, they will not dare to owne before others.
Answ. For our doctrines and testimonies, that we have given of Christ the true light of the world, we both dare, and have openly owned before the world; Therefore, this accusation is utterly false, and no true ground thou hast to say so concerning us; but thou mayest imagine thou hast some ground, because we would not be tyed to express our selves, concerning the light in such a way and manner, as thou would have prescribed to us, or have our principles stated in a form of words, to which thou would have limitted us.
And thou goes on in thy false accusations, saying, that which hath been vainly attempted by Antichrist, is their very designe, if accomplished; do but think how the Papists would rejoyce in it.
Answ. That which hath been attempted by Antichrist, is not our designe; neither in the accomplishment of our ends and desires, will either he or the Papists rejoyce; for our ends and and desire is, that people may be brought from under Satans dominions, and led out of the Ignorance and grosse darknesse, that hath long covered the inhabitants of the earth, into the true knowledge of the living God, that they may him worship and glorify, in spirit and in truth.
And in the fourth, thou sayest, they never yet that I have heard of, did oppose any of those fundamental truths we have preached unto you.
Answ. In this thou hast cleared us from the great slander, which in the former thou cast upon us, for we never did, nor do oppose any fundamental truths, though both you, and the Papists, may hold them, and preach them in the unrighteousnesse. Thus contradicting of thy false sayings, in thy third reason thou hast cleared us, and so what hath been attempted by Antichrist, and false Ministers against fundamental truths, was never our designe, as thy self hast confessed, that we never opposed any fundamental truths that ever thou heard of, yet though we have not opposed any fundamental sayings of Christ and his Apostles spoken by you; yet we have opposed those fundamental errors spoken by you; as witnesse that fundamental errors spoken by thee, in our conference at Kendal, (viz) that there is in every man a natural light, that gives them some measure of the knowledge of God.
And this I did oppose thee in; and shall beare my testimony against it, for it is an error in the fundamental, even in that which concerns the eternal life of souls, when time shall be no more: for if this were true (viz) that every man by a natural light hath a measure of the knowledge of God; then everyman had eternal life, & all drunkards and prophane persons upon earth, were in a state of happinesse.
And as concerning thy reproachful sayings in thy Epilogue, thou calls us the Popes very Pedlars, to sell off his corrupt wares in stalls, which would never off in shops.
Answ. Thy jeers, and unrighteous sayings concerning us, will returne upon thy own head; for the Pope we deny, and his corrupt wares we deny; amongst us neither his nor thine, is of any estimation, but me thinks thou and thy brethren, who have been made Ministers by natural educacation, and humane learning and arts, and having got the Mass-house, which originally appertaining to the Papists, which they founded and consecrated for their Idolatrous worship, in which you now sell your wares, for which you receive the same price and wages, which was once esteemed due to the Pope, and his Clergy: therefore if any in the Nation be his Pedlars, Mountebanks, and drudges; you are to be suspected.
And thou further sayest, I might have fil'd sheets with their fastings and visions, and impulses to strange actions.
To this I say, when thou writes again, say all that thou canst concerning our fastings and visions, and cease to slander in the dark, by which thou endeavours to perswade the Ignorant, that thou could manifest some great evills concerning our fastings and visions.
Whereas thou speaks of impulses and strange actions:
To this I say, impulses and actions, that is out of truth and Power of God, is denyed by us, and all that is excercised therein.
And thou further sayest, do you of this place consider, and such of you as have been former professors, look back to your profession; your Apostacy hath been the grief of many.
To this I say, how can there be an Apostacy, and falling from the truth, of any, if they never have been in the truth; [Page 23] and though the people of God at Kendall, that is gathered from the false Shepherds and hirelings, be not fallen from the Truth and Grace of Christ; yet thy speaking that they are Apostatized, and bidding them returne from whence they are fallen; doth clearly demonstrate that thou admits that their may be a falling away; which is the very same thing, that thou hast denyed of ours as an error; and for asserting that some fell away; thou hast compared us to the Papists; canst thou behold this again, and not see thy self in confusion, one while building up, and another while throwing down? for if thou doest not believe that their can be a falling from true grace; why dost thou exhort them to returne, from whence thou sayest they are fallen?
A few Questions to thee William Brownsword, who sayest our doctrines are Popery; which we have proved by the Scriptures to be the doctrines of truth, and can no more rightly be compared to the doctrines of the Papists, than the doctrines of the Apostles can be compared with the doctrines of the Papists: Therefore thou art desired to answer these questions, in plainnesse, without shuffling or evading; that so the ground of thy judgement may be more fully manifest to all. And what reason thou hast to parallel our doctrines and practices, with the doctrines and practices of the Papists: Seeing we of all people do not onely testify against the corrupt doctrines, and practices of the Papists in other Nations, but also against the Reliques of Popery in this Nation, that is found amongst the hireling Priests and Ministers, that is made by the will of man, and not by the will of God, and gift of the Holy Ghost.
- I. Query. Whether it is Popery to affirm, that Jesus the true light doth light every man that comes into the world, yea or nay?
- II. Query. And whether it is Popery to affirm, that the true light of the world, that lighteth every man, which is Jesus, is sufficient to lead to repentance, and save them that believe, yea or nay?
- III. Query. And whether Christ Jesus, may not be as truly preached in this age, the leader of mankind out of Ignorance and darknesse; under that denomination, and by that name, the light [Page 42] of the world? as by any other name under which the Prophets, and Apostels preached him in ages past, yea or nay?
- IV. Query. And whether it was, and is popery to affirm, that ever the Saints was, or can be perfected while they are upon the Earth, yea or nay?
- V. Query. And whether it is Popery to affirm, that Christ Jesus who is made of God; Righteousnesse to the Saints, is within them the hope of Glory, yea or nay?
- VI. Query. And if Christ Jesus, Gods Righteousnesse, be in Saints the hope of Glory, then is it Popery to affirm, that the righteousnesse through which Saints is justified, is revealed within them, yea or nay?
- VII. Query. Whether it is Popery to affirm, that some that had known the way of Righteousness, and tasted of the good Word of God, did fall away, yea or nay?
- VIII. Query. And whether it is Popery to say, That none is shut out, and reprobated to damnation and misery before they were born?
- IX. Query. And whether it is Popery to affirm, That the holy Scriptures are not the Rule of unbelievers; seeing thou seemed to blame some for saying, It was not?
- X. Query. And whether it is Popery to affirm, That God hath not commanded the Gentiles to observe the first day of the week for a Sabbath of rest; as he once commanded the Jews to observe the seventh day for a Sabbath day of rest, yea or nay?
- XI. Query. And whether it is Popery To deny, that God commanded the Baptism of Infants? Or that ever any of his Apostles practised it? Or that the Scriptures of truth testifies of it, yea or nay?
- XII. Query. And whether it is Popery to affirm, that the Scriptures of truth speaks not of a Sacrament, which you and the Papists so much plead for, yea or nay?
- XIII. Query. And whether it is Popery for to affirm, that they are no Ministers of Christ, which seeks their gain from their parishes and quarters; Preaches for hire, Divines for mony, and makes a bargain for so much by the year, though amongst you such may be called Protestant Ministers?
- XIV. Query. And whether all are Papists, that confesse [Page 25] that they have, and are led and taught, by the Infallible Spirit of Christ, yea or nay?
- XV. Query. And whether all are Papists, that go in plain and moddest apparel; without ribbons and lace, and such like costly aray? which serves onely to please the vain mind, and to satisfy the lust, which leads the creature from God, and is of the world, seeing for going in mean apparel, thou accused us to lay much stress upon it, and compared us to the Monks?
- XVI. Qu. And whether they are all Papists that met together in the Name of the Lord, and in silence waits in his counsel, till his mind and Word be revealed, whereby they may edifie one another, seeing for meeting sometimes in silence, thou hast accused us, to lay our Religion upon it, and compared us to the Monks?
- XVII. Qu. And whether all that have, and do use fasting and prayer, be Papists, yea or nay? Seeing thou hast compared us to the Monks for fasting, and also hast falsly said, we use it as a special means of spiritual knowledge.
- XVIII. Qu. And whether all that have gone up and down naked, have been and are Papists, yea or nay? Seeing some among us have been commanded to do so, for which thou compares us to the Papists?
- XIX. Qu. And whether all that have ceased to wear Ribbons and Lace upon their apparel, which is not needful, and do not respect persons, which saith Thee and Thou to rich and poor, are Papists? Answer in plainness yea or nay? Seeing thou hast falsly accused us for so doing, to place our Religion in circumstances, and compared us to the Papists.
- XX. Qu. And whether it is not confusion, to say we lay much stress upon mean and plain apparel; and yet a little after to say we wear rich cloaths? Answer in plainness, yea or nay?
- XXI. Qu. Whether all are Papists that have gone through several Countryes, preaching the glad tidings of Salvation, and yet have not fainted, yea or nay? seeing for being unwearied, thou compares us to the Monks?
- XXII. Qu. And whether the things before queried, doth rightly denominate a Papist, and is the ground of his being so called? Answer in plainness, yea or nay?