TO pass by his Recital of his former Goliah li [...]e Challenge (which he falsly calls A Sober Request) in the Front of this Sheet, enough being said to it already by several Pens, I proceed to consider what follows, And I quickly find him under Grand Mistakes or Wilful Ignorance: First, In calling my Return to his Scandalous Paper a Libel, because but the two prin­cipal Letters of my Name were at it; in this he deals not fairly, because he might have known my Name for asking of the Person that gave him one of the Papers into his Hand, and so might seve­ral of his Brethren also. But further, those Writings, or Printed Papers, where the two real Letters of the Author's Name is affixed are not to be called nor accounted Libels, especially when the Name may be known for asking: Besides, Reader, Jeremy hath contra­dicted and bewrayed himself in this very Sheet of his, as is mani­fest by comparing Paragraph the 6th with the 2d; in the one he saith, He knoweth not who W. S. is: In the other he saith so much as may signifie he doth know; his words are thus, Some of those Opinions of mine, which in HIS PAPER AND BOOK, entitu­led, The Universallity of the Light Asserted, he calls Absurd and Ridiculous. Now my Name was at large to the Book, and W. S. to this Paper, and he himself calls them both mine; so its evident he was not ignorant of my Name (or if he was, it was Wilful Ig­norance) only he seems minded to make himself Sport in a Moun­tebank manner and to set it up for a Libel, and to bring William Penn's words against a real Libel, to fight with it, in this he hath imitated his Brother Hicks, who formed and fashioned a Quaker, and his Opinions, and then Dialogued with him, which is one of [Page 4]the greatest Abuses among men, to present things contrary to what indeed they are, the practice of an arrant impostor.

Now as Writings are accounted no Libels, where the two Let­ters of the Authors Name is affixed; so it doth not always follow, that where a Name is at large to Books or Writings, that it is the Authors Name; for about the same time this Scandalous Paper of Jer. Jves's came abroad, Richard Baxter, in a printed Sheet, warns People of two printed Papers under his Name at large, which he was not the Author of; so this Jer. Ives hath no ground to Carp and Jeer at my cautious Writing, and putting in these Words, Said to be, within a Parenthesis: for I say again, if I had not had some other Reasons besides his Name twice affixe, I might have endea­voured to have known it from himself, without deserving to be charged with Impertinency, Guile or Blame; and he and the rest of his Brothren would shew themselves more like Christians, if they would manifest the like Care and Circumspection in what they father upon the Quakers.

And now I would have the Reader clearly understand, that Wil­liam Penn's Answer (which Jeremy espouses and speaks in against me) was not to such a Sort of Paper, where the two Letters of the Authors Name was affixt, and might have been known son asking; he sought and enquired, and could not learn it (neither would the Baptist, in whose Favour it seemed to be published, own it, nor discover the Author) therefore this Jeremy hath very fouly and evil­ly applyed his Words, and hath put this Case in its stead without the like Reason or Ground; herein he hath dealt more like a Forger, then a fair Adversary; and were he of a tender Spirit, and his Con­science rightly informed, I would appeal unto him to answer, whe­ther he is not conscious of his Guilt herein: I do tell him and the World, that I had no Design to conceal my Name; though W. S. was only in the Copy, yet I gave the Printer express Order to put my Name at length, though he omitted it, for which I blamed him: It might have prevented Jeremy of a colourable Pretence for the chiefest Matter in his Answer. But however, the World cannot see, nor truly say, as he falsly insinuates, That the Quakers allow Nameless Libels to blast their Adversaries, and he hath no Proof for it, being never their Practice.

Now Reader, the Cause of the Quakers remains the same still; [Page 5]it concerns them to insist upon their Charge against T. H, and all that abet him in his Fictitious Forged Dialogues, wherein he hath evilly presented them, and their Principles to the Nation: Now if this Jeremy (who was deputed to be one of the three or four on the Baptists Part at Barbican) will appear in the stead of T. H. &c. and answer to their Charge of Forgery, &c. they will be ready to meet him publickly as Time and Place shall be agreed upon; but as single Jeremy they have no Reason to regard his daring interposing Challenge, till they are heard concerning T. H. from his first Dia­logue to the Book, entituled, The Quakers Appeal answered; or till T. H. confesseth and acknowledgeth his Folly and Ʋnchristian Behaviour towards them.

In my Return to his Scandalous Paper, I said, ‘I did not count it worth my Time to write or discourse with him about Matters rela­ting to the pure Christian Religion, barely as J. I. and that as so he was not worth disputing with;’ and I make the same Account still and say the same again; and W. Penn hath not contradicted me there­in, in saying at the Barbican-Meeting, ‘About the Beginning of his Discourse with him, he had found him a pretty fair Adversary;’ which had chiefly Relation to the Experience he had of him nigh two Years before at Wickam, at which Time he behaved himself more fairly then of late; and W. P. might expect the like then, and say, 'He was as free to dispute with him as any: But my Say­ing is since Barbican and Wheeler-Street-Meeting, occasioned by my Observation both of the Matter and Manner of his Discourse and unsavory Behaviour, and since his vapouring unchristian Challenge came to Light, and his manifesting himself a Confederate with T. H. to rescue him in his Forgeries, &c. And though W. P. said so then, yet since he hath given him occasion enough to be of my Mind now, he having verified that Saying in Scripture, EVIL MEN AND SE­DUCERS WAX WORSE AND WORSE.

And if he understands himself commended by W. R. for a Con­scientious, tender-hearted, Zealous Disputer, who hath the Glo­ry of God, the Good of Souls, and the Prosperity of the Christian Religion chiefly in his Eye; in what he undertakes he very grosly mistakes himself, and abuseth him, as he may plainly see in his last Sheet in Answer to his Sober Request, &c. Now it is because he is not such an one, and professeth Christianity, and the Office of a Minister thereof, and talks of God's Assistance in a Work he never [Page 6]set him about; that I and W. P. also slight single Jeremy, and count him not worth disputing with.

I said also in my Return, ‘That his Tongue (as the Proverb goes) is no Slander with many grave Citizens and moderate People, who walk not with the Quakers;’ and he need not doubt but that I am of the same Mind, and think so still, and yet not basely contradict my self, in saying, ‘I never met with more Untruths in so few Lines as in his Paper, and to call them Slanderous Sayings, Lyes and gross Abuses (though I use the Proverb) is no Contradiction;’ for though many grave Citizens, &c. do know his Tongue not sufficient to fasten a Slander upon a Person or People; and that his Repu­tation, as a Christian, is little accounted of by many that know him; and that what proceeds from him is not sufficient to stain or defile the Reputation of others, especially as Christians; yet it doth not follow but that his Lyes are Lyes, and his slanderous Sayings are slanderous Sayings, and his gross Abuses are so in them­selves, and may be called so; and some that are not grave Citizens and moderate People, who know not him, may be traduced by them and deceived so far as to believe them to be true, to prevent which is the Occasion of those Lines.

And further, I perceive Jeremy thinks it hard, that I should say in my late Return, &c. ‘That in my Judgment he was fitter to ap­pear pear upon a Mountebanck's Stage, then in a solemn Religious Chri­stian Assembly to dispute for Christianity:’ And he seems offended also that I say, ‘ Christianity needs no Mercenary Agents to pro­pagate its Cause, nor the corrupt Weapons of a Sophister to defend it: Verily, I do seriously tell Jeremy, I should be glad to see Cause to alter my Judgment, as to the first;’ the second no Judici­ous Christian will deny; but whether he be the Man, I leave at present upon his own Conscience further to consider, and do truly tell him, he extreamly mistakes me in charging me with Malice and Railing Accusation, and end avours to blow up his Reputation, and blast his Credit: I have so much Love to him, that I heartily wish he had much more of both then he hath, that he might be a greater Ornament to his Profession▪ and honour that Christianity he in Words professeth: I have no Malice in my Mind towards him, nor no Man upon the Face of the Earth; it's inconsistant with the Nature of Christianity: I would have him read over my Lines a­gain, [Page 7]and consider them better; and if his Day of Visitation be not quite over, I desire he may come to witness that Infallible Evi­dence of a true Christian within himself, which no Impostor can give (viz.) The Spirit it self bearing Witness with his Spirit, that he is a Child of God, &c. he will have more Cause to rejoyce and glory in this then in the Strength of his Arguments, and Sophistical Rea­soning.

This sore Evil is near this Man, to be quick sighted abroad and blind at home, and to measure others by his own State and private Spirit, censure others for his own Faults, which he is manifestly guil­ty of in his Sober Request; to be sure he hath shewed little civil Edu­cation; neither hath he and some of his Brethren refrained from any Means to endeavour to blow up the Quakers Reputation in the highest Concern, even as Christians: Now as so, I do not find by Converse among Men, that he himself hath much to blow up, or much Credit to blast, either among the Baptists or others (some refusing to read any Book or Paper about Religion, wherein he is concerned) for my Part, I say truly, I write it more with Sorrow and Grief of Heart, then with Delight to upbraid him, that he who hath been, not only a long Professor of Christianity, but also a pretended Minister of it, should have so little of either.

And he needs not question the goodness of the Quakers Cause, nor the truth of Immediate Inspiration, which they are Witnesses of (notwithstanding he seems to jeer at it) because they count them­selves no whit oblieg'd to meet him upon his own daring Challenge; for as the Controversie now stands, they judge it a meer Evasion, and wholy Impertinent to the Cause depending betwixt them and the Baptist; and every Impartial Observer of the whole Series of the Matter will readily be perswaded so to conclude.

They have not been, nor are not backward to give a Reason of their Faith, and an Account of their Religion with Meekness and Fear to every one that in Honesty and Seriousness of Spirit asketh them; but some Scribes, Pharisees and Hypocrites may ask Ensnaring Questions in Enmity and Prejudice, which no true Chri­stian is oblieged to answer in their Way, Will and Time, and have good Example for it in the holy Scriptures.

And they have been, and are willing to use all Means to remove Ignorance and Foolishness out of the Hearts of all Men, that they [Page 8]may come to Repentance and Acknowledgment of the Truth, and be saved; and have not behaved themselves as a People of lofty dis­daining Tempers (as thou falsly suggestest) but with Meekness have endeavoured to instruct those that oppose themselves; and dispute and reason with them, though they were not the Mouth of a Par­ty, &c. But what if they count Jeremy (for divers Reasons) not worth disputing with, seeing he will not be satisfied without; I will tell him one of my chiefest Reasons, which is, because it appears to me that he hath lost Tendernese of Heart, Sensibleness of Spirit, Consciencious Zeal, and Circumspectiveness, which I question not, but he had a Measure of, in the Infancy of his Religion, or the Day of the Visitation of God's Love, which he was once Partaker of: But now he is become as the Sale which hath lost its Savour, and all his Treasury of acquired Attainment is but as the Old Manna, which had Worms in it, and stank, and is now as the deaf Adder, which will not hear the Voice of the Charmer; &c. and till he better demon­strate himself a Christian in Life, Doctrine and Practice, and layes aside his Crafty, Acquired, Artificial, Sophistical Way of Reaso­ning, by which he deceives the Ignorant, and shew forth his Re­pentance from dead work, I shall remain of the same Mind; and in the mean Time desire him to take Notice of the Advice of W. Penn in his last Sheet in Answer to his pretended Sober Request, viz. That he give better Evidence of his own Christianity, before he endea­vour to unchristian others.

And to help him herein, I also counsel him to take the Advice of his Brother W. L. in his Letter to him after Barbican-Meeting, 12. Octob. 74. and consider his late Book also, which is not to be counted a Libel, though but W. L. affixt to it: Now if he will not take the Counsel of his Friends, nor of those he counts his Enemies, it argues, he is not endued with that Wisdom which is from above, which inclines those that have it to be easily entreated to that which is good.

And seeing he hath taken Pains to set forth some of his Opinions divulged in Croyden-Market-Place, and hath omitted the rest, I think it necessary to insert them all, as in the Book, which are as followeth. [Page 9]

• THe same Body that is now the Habitation of the Soul and Spirit, shall rise again, and enter with the Soul united, into everlasting Joy or Torment.
• It may be in the great Day of Judgment God may receive the Hea­then to Glory; but it is more then they know whether he will or no: For those People that have not the Scriptures among them in common, have no Knowledge of their future Estate.
• All the Light in men could never reach them, discover or re­veal unto them, That Christ was born of a Virgin, and that he suffered, &c. It may tell them, that Blasphemy and Drunk­enness, &c. is Sin; but could never tell that God would save them.
• I do deny that every man is lighted with the Light of Christ; for the Scripture saith, That many are in Darkness, and stumble, be­cause there is no Light in them.
• That the Light which lighteth every man is not the Light of Christ, yet it is a Divine Light.
• There is a Natural Light in all men, which may shew them Sin, and this Natural Light is Divine; for every Gift of God is per­fect; therefore Divine.
• Men may sin out all Sense of Sin, and become Darkness, and have no Light in them.
• The Sun may shine, and some men may shut their Eyes, and will not see it; and some are blind, and cannot see it: Are they therefore en­lightned by it? So likewise, &c.
• I will stick by the present Translation of the New Testament, which was effected by Twenty or Thirty Learned Wise Men, by the King's Authority; and if I understood Greek never so well, it would be un­mannerly to contradict them.
• [Page 10] The Light that is come into the World was designed of God to en­lighten every man; but Thousands are not enlightened by it.
• George Whitehead and William Gibson are not enlightened with he Light of Christ; though I grant, that there is a Light an every man, which is Divine, yet not the Light of Christ.
• I deny that the Light of God is one with the Light of Christ; the Father and Son are Relatives, but not one; the Light of the Father, Son and Spirit are Divine, but not one.
• That which is Divine in God, becomes Natural when given to men.
• Some in the World are without Christ; therefore some in the World are without the Light of Christ.

Some of these, he saith, are laid broakenly down, & not in his Words; he knows I sent him a Copy of them before they were printed; why would he not tell me so before now? His saying so now signifies lit­tle; if I had noted them wrong, he shewed a lofty disdainful Tem­per, that he would not shew me wherein in its Season; his say­ing so now ought not to be regarded: They are all spoken briefly to in the Book aforesaid; and the Absurdness and Ridiculousness of many of them is obvious to every Judicious Impartial Reader, to which I refer; the Title of the Book is, The Ʋniversality of the Light asserted, and to be had at several Shops in and about London.

Now, since his being at Croyden, where he spent some time in Op­posing that word [Inlighteneth] in the first of John, Verse the 9th, contending against our Friends saying That Christ Inlightens every Man, &c. in a Book of his printed in the year 1656. Title, Innocency above Impudency, pag. 16. viz. ‘ My Book, call'd Qua­kers Quaking, pag. 49. viz. I have these Words; I did not oppose the saying of John, which is, That Christ Inlightene every One that comes into the World;’ so if I had met with it timely, it would have saved me that labour of setting before him, at the end of my [Page 11]Book (if he would have believed himself) how that Verse is read in divers Natural Tongues.

But to proceed to the Conclusion with Jeremy at present, he saith, ‘ He doth once more signifie in the Behalf of all Christians gene­rally, and of the Baptists in particular, offer to prove the Quakers No Christians, and their Ministers Impostors:’ I only, in short, say thus much, That the Generallity of Christians hath not imployed him, as their Agent (if they should, their Cause would be at a low Ebb) and for ought I understand, T. H. and the Bap­tists in particular, deny and disown their Delegating of him, though he pretended they had, at Wheeler-street-Meeting: So, for what I see, he would sam be a Volunteer, Reformado, or Mer enary; and gives himself out to be such, & ready to do the work thereof before he is listed; This shews he has a Giddy Head, and a Strong Con­ceit, and would be doing something which no Christian will thank him for. Indeed, Jeremy, I advise thee, as before, to take Willi­am Penn's Counsel, and prove thy self a Christian first, and let thy Life and Conversation preach as loud as thy Tongue, or else besilent for the future.

Now if the Quvkers cannot prevail with the Baptist to have a Publick Meeting, wherein to prove their Charge against Thomas Hicks and those that joyn with him in his Ficctious Dialogues People may clearly perceive they are not able to abide the Test.

Therefore now further: let this Jeremy, T. Hickr and the rest agree together to give a Description of that Christian and Christian Preacher in all his Parts, Qualifications, Doctrines, Practices and Obedience, which they charge the Quaker to be none of: And in the first Place prove and demonstrate themselves such. and they and the World may receive an Answer thereto; and so leave all to the Consciences of the Judicious, and all People whose-Profit, Infor­mation & Edification the Quakers desire with all their Hearts, which may be a Means to bring some Issue to what of late hath past be­tween both.