WEE are now upon a very great businesse, so great indeed, as it re­quires our soundest, our saddest consideration; our best judgement for the present, our utmost foresight for the fu­ture.

But Sir, one thing doth exceedingly trouble me, it turnes mee round about, it makes my whole reason vertiginous, which is, that so many doe beleeve, against the wisedome of all ages, that now there can be no reformation without destruction; as if every sicke body must be presently knockt in the head, as past hope of cure.

Religion was first and best planted in Cities, God did spread his Net where most might be caught, Cities had Bishops and Presbyters: [Page] Pres­byters were the Seminaries out of which were sent labourers by the Bishops to propogate and cultivate the Gospel. The Cleargie then lived wholly upon the free-will offerings and bounty of the people.

Afterwards, when Kings and States grew to be Christians, the outward settlement of the Church grew up with them. They erected Bi­shopricks, founded Cathedrall Churches, en­dowed them with large possessions: Land­lords built Parish Churches, gleab'd them with some portion of land, for which they have still a right of presentation.

I doe confesse that some of our Bishops have had ambitious, dangerous aimes, and have so still, that in their government there are very great enormities: but I am not of their opinion who beleeve, that there is an innate ill quality in Episcopacie, like a specificall property, which is a refuge, not a reason. I hope there is not o­riginall sin in Episcopacie; and though there were, yet may the calling be as wel reformed, as the person regenerated. Bishops have gover­ned the Church for fifteen hundred yeares without interruption: and no man will say, but that God hath saved souls in all those times [Page] under their government. Let them be reduced according to the usage of ancient Churches in the best times, so restrained as they may not be able hereafter to shame the calling. I love not those that hate to be reformed, and doe there­fore thinke them worthy of the more strict, the more close reformation.

We have often complained, that Bishops are too absolute, too singular. Although Cathedral Churches are now for the most part but recep­tacles of Droanes and Nonresidents, yet some good men may be found or placed there to be assessors with the Bishops, to assist them in acti­ons of moment, in causes of importance; there is maintenance already provided for them. If either in Bishopricks, or Cathedrall Churches there be too much, some may be pared off, to re­lieve them that have too little. If yet more may be spared, it may be imployed to the setting up of a preaching Ministery through the whole Kingdome. And untill this be done, although we are Christians, yet are we not a Christian State. There are some places in England that are not in Christendome, the people are so igno­rant, they live so without God in the world, for which Parliaments are to answer both to God [Page] and Man. Let us look to it, for it lies like one of the burdens of the Prophet Esay, heavie and flat upon Parliaments.

I have often seriously considered with my selfe, what strong concurrent motives & causes did meet together in that time, when Abbeyes and Monasteries were overthrowne. Certainly Gods hand was the greatest, for hee was most offended. The prophane superstitions, the ab­hominable idolatries, the filthy nefandous wic­kednesse of their lives did stinke in Gods no­strils, did call downe for vengeance, for refor­mation A good party of religious men were zealous instruments in that great worke, as likewise many covetous ambitious persons, ga­ping for fat morsels, did lustily drive it on.

But, Mr. Hyde, there was a principall Parlia­mentary motive, which did facilitate the rest: For it was propounded in Parliament, that the accession of Abbey lands would so enrich the Crowne as the people should never be put to pay subsidies again. This was plausible both to Court and Countrey. Besides, with the over­plus there should be maintained a standing ar­my of fourty thousand men for a perpetuall de­fence of the Kingdome. This was safety at [Page] home, terrour and honour abroad: the Parlia­ment would make all sure.

Gods part; Religion, by his blessing, hath been reasonably well preserved, but it hath been saved as by fire: for the rest is consumed and vanished: the people have payed subsidies ever since, and we are now in no very good case to pay an Army.

Let us beware, Mr. Hyde, that we do not looke with a worldly, carnall, evill eye upon Church lands, let us cleare our sight, search our hearts, that we may have unmixt and sincere ends, without the least thought of saving our owne purses. Church lands will still be fittest to maintain Church men, by a proportionable and orderly distribution.

We are very strict and curious to uphold our own propriety, and there is great reason for it: Are the Cleargy only a sort of men who have no propriety at all in that which is called theirs? I am sure they are Englishmen, they are subjects.

If we pull downe Bishopricks, and pull downe Cathedrall Churches, in a short time we must bee forc'd to pull downe Colledges too; for Schollers will live and dye there as in Cells, if there bee not considerable preferment to invite them abroad. And the example we are making now, will bee an easie temptation to the lesse-pressing necessities of future times.

[Page]This is the next way to bring in Barbarisme, to make the Cleargy an unlearned contemptible vo­cation, not to bee desired but by the basest of the people; and then where shall we finde men able to convince an adversary?

A Cleargy man ought to have a farre greater proportion to live upon, then any other man of an equall condition. Hee is not bred to multi­ply threepences, it becomes him not to live mechanically, and sordidly: he must be given to hospitality. I doe know my selfe a Cleargyman, no dignitary, whose books have cost him a thou­sand pounds, which when he dies, may be worth to his wife and children, about two hundred.

It will be a shamefull reproach to so flourishing a Kingdome as this, to have a poore beggerly Cleargy. For my part, I think nothing too much, nothing too good for a good Minister, a good Cleargy man. They ought least to want, who best know how to abound. Burning and shining lights doe well deserve to be set in good Candle­stickes.

Mr. Hyde, I am as much for reformation, for purging and maintaining Religion, as any man whatsoever: but I professe, I am not for innova­tion, demolition, nor abolition.