Captaine Freeman, well met: How farest thou man? what newes? how all amort? what is his Excellency troubled with his Pigs petitoes? o [...] has Noll got a clappe in the North? Pish, there was no such skirmish, a meere slan­derous tale of Pragmaticus.

What de'e tell me of such fopperies? I would all the Libel­ling Pamphleteers were hanged.

Now I like thy devotion, and with them thy Britanike Ar­chilochus, that has his Pen made of the scale of a Basilisk, dips it in Aconite, and in every line is guilty of Crimen laesae Majestatis, and scandalum magnatum; and that Incendiary the Moderate Intelligen­cer, who of late is turned plaine Bontifew, has left off lying a­broad, and falls to raile closly at Domestick Affaires; then take a Whelpe of the same Litter, that Catamidiated Ironmonger; if these pernicious Vermin were hanged together, would they not looke like so many Poulca [...]s and Foxes trusted up on a Gibbet to terrifie their surviving Companions. These Ominous Scritch-Owles, and ill boading Ravens dive into the bosome of States­men, before they have unbuttoned their doublets, with their ma­licious predictions spoyle businesses before they are attempted, and would smother even in the Cradle all good successe of the so long wished for Treaty. And what say you to the Sermonist at Peters Paules Wh [...]rfe? Septemb. 24. he layes about him on all sides like rough Ismael, slashes the Presbyterans, fights with the Indepen­dents, challenges the Army, beates downe the Parliament, has a­bout with the Papists, forgets his owne Principles, contradicts the Scriptures, makes the people believe all the Popes delicates [Page 2] are bought with the Revenue of Indulgencies, and every dish baked, boyled, and roasted, are drest by the fire of Purgatory: But to the purpose Captaine; what makes thee looke so muddily, like a Compounding Malignant, more dejectedly then a vanqui­shed Cavalier? what is it the casting out of the long Petition? I hope thats disgested by this time.

No, no, I am come from delivering a short one, a modest one, an humble one, and that forsooth they scorne to an­swer: Have wee fought all this while, ventured and lost our lives, conquered our Enemies, put downe Popery, and Prelacy, and all this to set up foppery, and Presbytery? Have our Hogen Mogen Heeren, so soone forgot the power of our invincible Ar­my? Is our Ovant March through the City out of memory? Doe not the impeached Members remember they posted fugitives for Holland? And did wee for this connive at their re-admission to joyne Forces against the Common Enemy the Scot, the revolted Navy, and so many insurrections in England, and Wales? And all these suppressed, and subdued by our Victorious Forces; dare these fisking Hounds that the other day clapt their tailes betwixt their legs, returne unto their former vomit? like Acteons Curres disdaine to acknowledge their Masters? Well, heeres a Declara­tion touches their Coppy hold to the quick, shall take them a button hole lower, and what is heere exprest, demanded, and re­solved, shall be prosecuted to the full.

Prethee lets peruse it▪ Ha, you are very high: Wee cannot comply with any in the preposterous pretended Treaty with the King, intending siding with Him to slave our selves, and our Posterity, and the whole Kingdome, before these Particulars be ascertained us: Pray God your Particulars be modest. 1. That they make good the Supreame of the people from all pretences of Negative Voices, whether it be of King or Lords. How now? Well, Ile say nothing of his Majesty, for he (poore Gentleman) has been laid aside by both the Houses, the Army, and the people these many yeares, though now during the Treaty he is come a little into play; but for our wise Lords, have not they brought their hogs to a faire market? 2. That Lawes be forthwith made for electing Representatives yearely, without Writs or Summons: Very good, That the time of their sitting shall not exceede fifty dayes at most, and that this present Parliament end [Page 3] within twenty dayes: Heeres Wormwood; how will our 400 Demy-Gods relish this? If quietly they render up their staffe [...] of Office, How will they cousen the world? which thinkes them drunke with a strong confidence they shall be perpetuall dicta­tors, rule the rost, and mannage all affaires world without end? Lucian tells of a Tragedian that playd furious Ajax so seriously, that he fell mad indeede; And our Burgesses many thinke have so long royallized it▪ that they are turned true Kings, theyle never endure to be deposed. Theyle sweare Sylla by his abdication pro­ved no good Grammarian, and did not know what belonged to an absolute Dictatorship. And the same Cornelius Sylla having made himselfe a private man, and followed by a yong boy in the open streets, even to his owne doore, and at every step reviled with the name of bloodthirsty Tyrant, bore all these approbrious speeches with much patience, and very soberly, though Prophetically [...]ayd: This yong man will teach others not so soone to part with such an absolute power, which proved afterwards true in Julius Caesar.

This Article stands with all the reason in the world. To be a Parliament man is either honourable and beneficiall, or troublesome, and full of cares. If this last, why should these men onely and alwayes beare the burden and heate of the day? A Gods name, let Jethro's Elders ease Moses of his too much sollici­tude, and cumbersome imployment: If honourable and benefici­all, have wee not a world of able men, and as well quallified and deserving as our Senate? Why should not such share in the ho­nour, and participate in the profit?

The fourth, That matters of Religion be exempted from all compulsive, and restrictive power of any Authority whatsoever: I marry, if you can get this, get all; what would you have En­gland as free as Amsterdam, copiously furnished with above 100 severall Religions; yet wee had an Englishman could not finde one of his owne Religion amongst them all. You'd have our Kingdome another Hannibals Army, composed of a thousand dis­crepant Dialects, a new Babell, where the Mechanicks that buil­ded a Fanatick Tower should reach to Heaven, are confounded in as many tongues as they have Trades.

I strongly averre it, that if England in this conni­vance [Page 4] imitated Amisterdam, our Nation would be as happy as Hol­land, the most flourishing Commonwealth in Christendome: And till this liberty be granted wee shall never have peace nor plenty in the Land: Wha [...] begun all these Comb [...]tions in England? Was it not the obtruding of a new forme of Liturgy, or Common prayer booke upon the Scots, by D. Laud Arch of Canterbury? This was that first stone which never ceased rouling till it rouled the Scotch Prelates out of their Bishop [...]icks, then stript our Bishops of their voices in the House of Pe [...]r [...]s, then of their E­piscopall Dignities and Functions (the Houses voting with great applause of the people, there should be no more Bishops:) Lastly of all their Revenues, and Livings, which are now [...]old and bought at Robin Hoods penny worths: and that with a great deale of foresighted providence: For as Knoxe intending to roote out of Scotland the Masse, and Roman Religion (like another Achi­tophel) advised the people to pull downe the nests of the Crawen (meaning the Churches where Masses were celebrated) and then the Crawen would no more build in them: So these Ecclesiasti­call and ample Revenues being sold away, and allenated, the Pompous Cathedraticall Prelates will not so easily be restored: Nay was not this violent obtrusion of such a forme of Service u­pon Scotland (if wee seriously consider) the primum mobile and sole cause that turned King Charles out of his Throne his Queene, and Royall Children out of the Kingdome?

You say right Captaine; yet I cannot be of your opi­nion to admit such a Gally maufrey, and Olla Prodrida of Religi­ons; I thinke 'tis neither for the good nor safety of a Kingdome: Yet I must confesse the imperious obtruding the Common prayer booke on the Kirke of Scotland, was the Origen of all these broyles and combustions which insued in England: And I wish that occasion had not b [...]n given to the people to open their eyes, or rather [...]o some Machivillan Statists to apply perspective glasses to the eyes of the people, and make them looke further into busi­nesses both of Church and Stats, then they otherwise would, or indeed ought to have done.

It is certains that infatuation is the ordinary [...]ore­runner of p [...]rdition. At the same time the sayd Archbishop of Canterbury injoyned an Oath on the Clergy. As I remember he [Page 5] had the consent of the Convocation House for it, notwithstan­ding it was very much disgusted of the Churchmen, and after­wards proved amongst one of the Articles objected against him. He shewed indeed a zeale and tender care of his Majesty, but that zeale in th [...]se circumstances was interpreted not to be accor­ding to discretion. Another maine errour the Prelates committed in being so ready and violent (especially D [...]. Morton Bishop of Durham) in excluding the Papist Lords from their suffrages and Votes in the House of Pe [...]res (their birthright inde [...]d) whereby presently followed their owne deprivation, and expulsion out of the same House. They might have considered the Votes of those Catholick Barons joyned with the suffrages of the Bishops, would have carryed a great sway in that House: And according to the received [...]xi [...]m [...] and opinion, that Episcopacy dos so sympathize with Monarchy by their too eager opposition against them, they could not but much weaken the party of the King, and finally undoe themselves.

This was a maine errour in pollicy, but was not that as foule a misd [...]m [...]n [...]r, when being in their Pontificalibus, and h [...]ffe of Authority, they so p [...]rsecuted the Non-conformists, and filled the Prisons with poore men, insomuch, as their high Com­mission Court proved far worse than the Spanish Inquisition; for in that sufficient provision is made to sustaine the Prisoners, nor are they urged to accuse themselves, as heere they are by the Oath ex Officio. I will not insist how long they were kept in the exa­mination of their Causes, that so continuall, and unconscionable Fees might be drawne from them, to the vtter undoing of a world of godly and religious people.

Major, I now perceive you can both feele and speake, when the inconvenience of force and compulsion in affaires of conscience touches your selves: And wee see what heart bur­nings these oppressions, and constraining mens consciences have wrought in the affections of the people: How odious is the me­mory of Bishop Bonner, and other Prelates in Queene Maries time, even at this day to most of our Protestants, though I have heard many moderate men of the Catholick Party mislike the then proceedings of the Bishops, as more [...]avouring of rigorous zeale, then of a compassionate discretion: Moreover Mr. Foxe hath [Page 6] been often taxed, that in hate of that Religion he multiplyed his Martyrs, and canonized some for Saints in Heaven, who lived many yeares after notorious Varlets on earth. And it was enough for him to make any firebrand Sectary, if he railed against the Pope and Clergy, a Martyr of his Church. You shall heare what the Author of the eleventh Persecution, in his eight Chapter writes, making a concluding Parrallell between ‘the Popish Perse­cution in Queen Maries dayes, and this (as he calls it) Puritan Persecution; in Terminis he sayes; The Parliament, as it hath slaine more thousands of English Subjects, then Queene Mary con­demned scores; So it hath lesse show of justice or legall procee­dings, all being now done coram non Judice, by upstart Commit­tees, and new erected Judicatories, never heard of in England before: As also sine Lege by meere arbitrary votes, and fancyes of malicious Adversaries, and Judges in their owne cause, nor were any in Queene Maries condemned, but by knowne Lawes of the Land and Legall triall, with disputations, and perswasions used to reclaime them from their supposed Errors; but the Puritan persecution is to hunt after matters of accusation, not to reform Errors, but to torment the Persons of men, and condemnati quoni­am accusati, is their justice: howsoever if we revolve Ecclesia­sticall’ Histories we shall observe much lenity, and tendernesse practised by the Fathers of those primitive times in reclaiming Sectaries, and such as differed from them in points of Religion. Arius was a pestilent fellow, and the first Arch heretick, for whose cause, and blasphemous opinion, a generall Counsell was called; and behold with what meeknesse, lenity, and industry, the holy Bishops assembled at Nice, dealt with him not with fire and sword; but their weapons were fervent prayers for h [...]s conversion, and efficatious reasons drawn out of the Scripture for his confutation. After him rose up Photinus, Macedonius Bishop of Constantinople, Aetius and Eunomius, who taught most grosse Errours against every person of the blessed Trinity: Then Aeri­u [...] who discontented that he could not be ordained Bishop added to Arianisme his owne phanatick opinions, namely, that there was no difference betwixt a Bishop and a Priest: Feasts and Fasts commanded by the Church were not to be observed, no sacrifice nor prayers were to be off [...]ed for the dead.

But were these tenents esteemed hareticall so many yeares agoe?

Epiphanius heresi, 77. and St. Augustine haer. 53. ad Quod vult Deum▪ list Aerius, in the Catalogue of hereticks for these assertions. But to our purpose. After these succeeded many prin­cipall Sectmasters, who with their new fangled novelties trou­bled the Church; as Helvidius, Jovinian, and Pelagius, and a hun­dreth more of the same litter: But what was the course the an­cient Doctors tooke to suppresse the growth of their dangerous Errours? either by assembly of Synods, or by solid arguments in elabourated treatices, they convinced, and confuted their foppe­ries. But wee shall never read of imprisonments, confiscations, banishments, much l [...]sse of capitall punishments; only when the Arians got the upper hand by the imperiall power of Constantius, Valens, and afterwards the Vandals in Africa under Gensericus, then all cruelties, imprisonments, plundrings, mutilations, Mass [...] ­cres were with most barbarous impiety practised against the Or­thodoxal Christians. And Victor Ʋticensis (an eye witnes, and suffe­rer in the same) makes a large and lamentable relation with what diabolicall pollicies the Vandall Machiavellians enacted Laws to entrap and thrust the Catholick Clergy, and Laity out of their dignities, Offices, and all charge in the Common wealth, it is well worth your knowledge: and the story is as followeth.

Gensericus having overrun Spaine, Fraunce, and Italie, wafted over his Vandalls into Africa, wresting the same from the Roman Empire, intruded himselfe into the Soveraignty there of (be­ing as this Island) by Sea divided from the rest of the Empire: He was no sooner seated in his in j [...]st perquisites▪ then suddenly sur­prized with feares and jealousies how to keep his new conquered Kingdome from the true owner the Emperour, he deemed no way more fit for the preservation thereof then by dissonant, and irreconcilable opinions in Religion, to divide the peoples hearts from all society with the Empire, and by establishing the A [...]ian heresie to alienate them from all communion with Greece, Italie, and the rest of Christendome. Wherefore Oathes of State were contrived thereby to entrap the Orthodoxal Christians; the Masse, Sacrifices, Rights, and Ecclesiasticall Ceremonies were abolished, and in their place the Arian forme for Common prayer was set [Page 8] up. Disputations were offered to the Catholick Bishops, but vi­olently and uncivilly demeaned. The Bishops were driven from their Sees, the Clergy exiled, and a new race of Bishops, and Priests put in their places. Senators were removed from the Senate, and thrust out of their dwelling mansions. The Catho­lick people were not suffered to beare Offices, but were confined, restrained, and forbidden to be harboured, or relieved. [...]he best sort in a manner inslaved, their goods brought forth and seized, themselves branded to be wicked and impious, their Priests sedi­tious. Vestments and Ornaments of the Church were prophaned, and turned to common uses, bookes were rifled and prohibited, Christian buriall denyed, and all places of prayer and sacrifice de­barred: If any Catholick tooke the Oath of State, yet notwith­standing he was restrained from having bookes in his house, from baptizing, from giving Orders, from reconciling. The very name of Rome was maliced, [...]he Bishop thereof vilified and hated, and the name of Catholicks denyed to Orthodox Professors. All im­periall Lawes made against Hereticks were turned, and practized against Catholicks; who for covetousnesse of their goods were the trampling stockes of all beggerly and needy people. Above all the rage of the Arrian Bishops, Apostates and Pursuivants was most furious, exceeding even that of the Tyrant himselfe: For the Pursu [...]vants having Commission from the State, and incited by the cruel and blood thirsty Arrian Bishops, frequently searched the Prisons, where many reverend Prelates, learned Priests, and Catholicke Gentlemen and Gentlewomen lay in miserable du­rance; and under pretence of taking away their Church stuffe, robbed them of considerable summes of money, which was sent in by charitably disposed persons to maintaine a multitude of Pri­soners, and preserve them from starving, plundered them of their cloths and houshold stuffe, tooke away their bookes, though of humane literature, which they forced the poore Priests to re­deeme for monies.

What people were these Pursuivants? And is it possible that a Commonwealth or any Nation governed by Laws as you mention the Vandals were, should permit such enormities, or not rather punish so great injustice?

These Pursuivants were a certaine Generation of [Page 9] pernicious Vipers, ravenous Harpi [...]s of a Kingdome, colli-stri­giated boote halers: You might take a douzen of them, and a­mongst them all not finde one Jewes eare to boile in milke, and save your Childes life troubled with a sore throate: For the per­mission or connivance of these Messengers, who were through­out the whole Persecution nocturni Ambulones, diurni Nebulones; you must understand, so implacable was the hatred of the State, (which pollicy and private ends augmented) against Catholicks, that though complaints were made, and Petitions exhibited; yet no eare was allowed, nor redresse granted; untill God (against whom there is no policy, craft, subtlety, counsell, wit, wisdome, or prevention) eased the yoke of the afflicted, first by an horrible Famine and mortallity, then by the subduing and extinguishment of the Vandals: Lastly, by reuniting the Province both to the union of the Roman Empire, and Communion of the Catholick Church. These barbarous and inhumane persecutions of the Vandall Arri­ans have bin detested in all after times, and I much feare that some Machiavellians in our, and our fathers memories have fetcht their projects, plots, & machinations in their intended overthrow of all Religion from these uncircumcised Barbarians. And let us consi­der whether wee have not invented Oathes, which have most grievously trenched on mens consciences, and withall adjoyned penalties to be inflicted on such who refuse to take them; namely, to incurre a premunire, perpetuall imprisonment, confiscation of their goods: Yea for the Clergy it was made death in Queen Eliza­beths time, to refuse the Oath of Supremacy: And it was practi­sed for the space of 80 yeares, that who refused to goe to Church, and heare Divine Service, should pay 20l. [...] Moneth, or two parts of their estate. And now the same Divine Service (as they then called it) or Common prayer booke is put downe, and con­demned by this Parliament as damnable and superstitious: What shall wee say, was there any justice, or was it not against all Law, consci [...]nce, and justice to punish Recusants, and so heavily, ma­king them Delinquents? Because they would not wrong their conscience in going to such a Service which was damnable, and superstitious. I aske this question, the booke of Common prayer was either holy, and good, or superstitious, [...]nd damnable? I [...] good, why was it with such disgrace abolished? If bad, why would they compell men to frequent the aforesaid Service, and [Page 10] enact such penalties for those who refused to heare the same: Nor can it be answered that the Parliament ordaining the said Com­mon prayer booke to be used, and sayd in all Churches through the Kingdome, bestowed goodnesse on the booke, and made it holy: So likewise [...]he Parliament declaring the same booke to be super­stitious and damnable, makes it to be so indeed. For as in Ob­jects of our Faith there is an intrinsecall, and constant verity, nei­ther can Counsells make them by their Declarations, Articles of our beliefe, but onely that such and such positions were either immediately revealed, or are by necessary consequence deduced out of Principles revealed. Nor is it in the power of Synods by any Declarations whatsoever, to make what is false true, or what is true false: So likewise in morall Actions, such as the Worship of God, belonging to Religion (a morrall Virtue) there is an in­herent dignity and goodnesse conforme and acceptable to the will of God unalterable by any Parliament, or constitutions of men. And though Parliaments may presume to ordaine and com­mand such Religious Service to be practised, and used in a Kingdome, and following Parliaments take upon them to annull, abrogate, and abolish the said Religious Acts, and forme of Ser­vice ordained, and established by their Predecessors▪ Yet not­withstanding all such Ordinances, Declarations, and injunctions, the said forme of Common prayer is neither better nor worse in its owne nature, that is either in conformity to the will of God, or obliquity, and repugnance to the sayd divine will; but if once pleasing and holy, it is still and ever will be so: If superstitious and bad, it was ever so, and will alwayes so remaine. I meane in this last state of grace, when by our Saviours fullfilling the Law, the Sacrifices, Sacraments, Rites, and Ceremonies of Moses were evacuated: Nor may wee expect new Law-givers, or new Revelations in substantiall points of beliefe and divine worship. Wherefore as if because at some times of the day, namely mor­ning and evening, my body casts a larger shadow then at other houres of the same day, to wit about noone (without the least con­traction or extension of my stature & dimensions) I should be estee­med a foole or a madman, if looking on my shaddow I would ei­ther glory in my height at one time, or be dejected seeing my selfe represented a Dwarfe at another; the shaddow neither ad­ding [Page 11] to, nor diminishing the just stature and proportion of my body. In like manner it were a great want of judgement to i­magine that any Commonwealth or Senate Representative of that Commonwealth, can with the shadow of their Ordinances, and Declarations adde to, or take from the worth and dignity of a­ny Liturgy, or Common prayer booke, if it be good and holy, or the obliquity, if damnable and superstitious: Wherefore such, who sit at the helme of States, ought with much caution and con­sideration be carefull what they impose on the people in this kinde, and with the like warinesse be advised how they abolish the same once commanded, and by publick Authority established. There hapned in Michaelmas Tearme, 1647. an odde passage at the Sessions of Newgate, where a Gentleman pleading for his life in danger by the severity of our Lawes (in matters of Reli­gion) told the Recorder that for many yeares the Recusants were persecuted, imprisoned, and forced to pay large summes of mo­nies, because they could not so far stretch their consciences as to go to heare such prayers, which were now condemned as dam­nable and superstitious, and he adjoyned that by this Declaration and condemnation, the Parliament had done the Recusants much right in manifesting to the world why they lost their goods, were imprisoned, and suffered death, namely, because they did no [...] con­forme themselves to what was by the Parliament condemned as damnable and superstitious.

What said the Recorder to this Plea?

Serjeant Greene sate in the place of Mr. Glin (being at that time in the Tower, and impeached of high Treason) and answered the Gentlemans arguments very learnedly.

Pray how?

With club-Law, he commanded the Gentleman should presently be put in irons, and carried to the common Goale.

That was very hard for speaking truth; yet you know that in most parts of Christendome they punish Sectaries, and such who professe a contrary Religion.

I know well that in some p [...]aces they do so, but withall say they are too blame for doing so: Now whereas you said in all Countryes they use a coercive power, and punish such [Page 12] who do not conforme themselves to the Religion, and Ecclesiasti­call discipline of those Kingdomes is not generally true; but rather for the most part generally not so? for in the Low-Coun­treyes, many parts of Germany, all Fraunce we see a tolleration, or at least a connivence in permitting the Subject to injoy the li­berty of his conscience: Nay, the great Turke who is most pre­cise in restraining disputations about his Alcoran, suffers the Gre­cians to professe Christianity: So likewise the Georgians in Asia, without vexations, and compulsion, frequent their owne Churches and assemblies. I must ad more, in Egypt there are foure severall Religions drawne from so many severall interpretations of the Mahometan Law, yet the chiefe Bishops, and Priests, though divi­ded in opinion, live in much concord one with another, have con­ferences and disputations about their tenents with eagernesse, not rancour defending their owne▪ and impugning the contrary opi­nions; the people also, though imbracing so different Sects live very peaceable together? 'Tis true there is an Inquisition in Ita­ly; but not so rigorous as our late high Commission Court: For Spaine you must understand that Countrey was overrun by the Moores, and the Maho [...]etan Religion giving so large a scope to sensuallity and libertinisme, unto which by reasō of their not con­stitution, the Spanyards are very prone; an inquisition there, for bu­sinesse of [...] faith was very requisite: Yet notwithstanding, the same Inquisition, because it trenches on mens consciences is not approved even of some most learned Romane Divines, you shall heare what Gerson Chancellour of Paris saies in this very poynt, Morte verò punire posse Haereticos, &c. It never was a Gene­rall tenent of the Church that Hereticks, though convicted, yea relapsed, and most obstinate, might be punished with death, if there were no danger of Sedition and Rebellion against the Commonwealth. And concerning the practice of the Inquisition, it is certaine that very many Catholicks, and extraordinary learned have disallowed that practice, though this is a businesse of fact▪ or rather prudence, and discretion▪ not of Doctrine. St. Augustine likewise much commendeth those Imperiall Lawes which punished Hereticks, but not with death. And Ep. 48. the same Father is much more favourable▪ for he writeth thus: It was alwayes my opinion that no man should be compelled to the Ʋnity of Christ, but he ought to be dealt with by wordes, and fought with by dis­putations, [Page 13] and convinced by reasons, lest for true Christians wee have dissembling Catholicks. And this great Doctour speakes with much reason; for when people are compelled either for feare of death, or corporall punishment, or losse of their goods to embrace a Re­ligion, which they in their understanding esteeme not right, though the s [...]me Religion should be true, yet their erroneous con­science makes the profession of that faith pernicious and damna­ble to them, according to that of the Apostle. Quod non est ex fide peccatum est, meaning whatsoever is done against a mans consci­ence is a sinne. Neither is there any constant perseverance to be expected in such convertites; for ordinarily they change and shift their Religions as often as Players doe their clothes. And for my part I confesse, I could never meete with a solid rea­son, why heere in England there should be such mutuall enmity, hatred, bitternesse, and persecutions for diversity of opinions in Religion, since Protestant, Puritan, Brownist, Anabaptist, and the rest agree in Fundamentall Points of Faith.

But what say you to the Papist? I hope you'le grant they differ from us all in substantiall points.

You P [...]esbyterians must still have about with the Pa­pists: To answer you concerning them, I must tell you, that King James intending a match betwixt his Sonne Prince Charles, and the Spanish Lady▪ and understanding that persecution for Re­ligion would be the maine obstacle in that businesse, demanded of George then Archbishop of Canterbury (who though a Bishop was alwayes reputed a great Puritan) whether Recusants might be saved; the Archbishop replyed, he did not doubt but they might be saved, and many were actually Saints in Heaven: Whereupon the King rejoyned, he knew no reason, if the Pro­testants and Papists lived quietly, and raigned gloriously in Hea­ven, why they should vexe one another, and for such differences in opinion, which did not impede their title and entrance into e­ternall glory: And if wee consider rightly, wee must acknow­ledge (unlesse wee deny all Histories) our Kingdome beholding to the Papists for the conversion of this Nation to Christianity, for the building our Churches, and endowing them with Ecclesi­asticall Revenues, for erecting our Universities, founding our Colledges, and leaving us almost all our Monuments of Learning, [Page 14] piety, and Charity, as Free Schooles the Innes of Court and Hospitals: Now let us reflect upon our selves, have not we dealt prittily with them? first we turned them out of their livings, im­prisoned, banished them, have hanged, and still hang 'em for pro­fession of their Religion.

The first man (as I have read) that seized on Church­livings here in England was King Henry the 8. I pray tell mee what Religion was he of?

King Henry the 8 was in all points a Roman Catho­lick, except in that of the Supremacy, which he of all our En­glish Kings first tooke upon him: he was a Prince so tyrannicall and cruell, that Sir Walter Raleigh in his Preface to the History of the world, writeth, if all the Acts, and bloudy deeds of Ty­rants in former ages were not recorded, but quite forgot, his one­ly life would afford a true and most genuine Character of an impi­ous and inhumane Tyrant: And tis true what you said that he first violently tooke away the livings of the Church; but he procee­ded in his Rapine and Sacriledge by degrees: For first, Anno Regni 21. he seased on Yorke House antiently belonging to the Arch Bishops of Yorke, by the attainder of Cardinall Wolsey in a premu­nire, and compelled the Cardinall before a Judge of Records to acknoledge the same (being then most sumptuously by him built and furnished) to be the Kings right; and thereupon the King changed the name, and called it White-Hall, In the 22. yeare of his Raigne he tooke the Hospitall of Saint James into his hands, together with all the Medowes, and Pastures thereunto belonging, as commodious for his house of White-Hall, made a parke there­of, built a faire Pallace, and inclosed all within a brick wall. In the 24. of his Raigne he suppressed the Priory of Christ-Church in London, sent the Canons to other Priories, and gave their Church, Plate, and other jewels to Sir T Audley. In the 26. year he suppressed and seased the houses of the observant Fryers at Greenwich, Can­terbury, Richmond, Newark, and Newcastle; and finding the sweet thereof, he suppressed other petty Religious Houses: All which he did as he was head of the Church, by the vertue of his Supremacy, without consent of the Parliament. Afterwards in he yeares of his Raigne, 27. 29. and 30. he suppresses by Parlia­ [...]entary consent greater Abbies, Monasteries, and Priories, with [Page 15] other Religious Houses, yet such as were under 200 in yearely Revenewes, them the King erected a Court of Augmentation for the receipt of his Revenues, comming in upon the said suppressions. The Rhoodes of Grace, and of Saint Margaret by Tower street were prophaned and defaced. Also those places of devotion at Walsingam, and Ipswitch, Lewes, and Bat­taile Abbies in Suff [...]x, Martin Abby in Surrey, Stratford Abby in Ess [...]x. St. Augustines with Thomas Beckets shrine in Canterbury. St. Thomas de Acres in London, the Black Fryars, the White Fry­ars, the Cha [...]ter house Monkes, and a multitude of other houses in divers parts of the Realme, whereof divers exceeded 200l. in yearely Revenues, contrary to the meaning of the Parliament, though in the 31 yeare of his Raigne, the Parliament gave to the King all the greatest Monasteries, Priories, and Abbies in England and Wales, as Westminster, Glastenbury, St. Albans, St. Edmunds­bury, Redding, and others. In the yeare following the Corpora­tion of St. Johns o [...] Jerusalem founded for the defence of Christ­endome against the Turkes, Saracens, & Infidels, together with all the Command [...]ies, Manners, Lands, Tenements, and heredita­ments thereunto belonging, were to the everlasting shame of our Nation, given to the King by Parliamentary consent, and Autho­rity. In the 37. yeare of his Raigne, the Parliament (a constant Pander, and offitious Hee-Baud to this Kings lusts, Sacriledges, and Tyrannies) granted to the King all Colledges (the Universi­ty Colledges excepted) free Chappells, Chauntries, Brother­hoods, and stipendiary Priests, with all their Lands Rents, and He­reditaments: Likewise a confirmation of the grants of certaine Lands, parcells of the Archbishopricks of Canterbury and Yorke, and the Bishoprick of London, and power to erect the aforesayd Monasteries into Manners.

You speake of infinite Treasures, which must accrew to the Kings Cofers out of these Ecclesiasticall Revenues: and I have heard that he had six or seven and thirty cart loades of Gold, Silver, and Jewels, brought from the shrine of St. Thomas of B [...]c­ket at Canturbury to London, and sold to one Traps a Goldsmith in Cheapeside. Also Chancellour Bacon writes, that his Father Henry the 7. le [...]t him at his death 38. hundred thousand pounds; what became of these inestimable summes?

King Henry was a Prince by nature profuse, and had time enough to consume those monies left by his Father, before he fell to his sacrilegious Rapines, and robbing the Church. And concerning these injust perquisites from the Clergy, and Regulars, you must know that what is got over the Devills back, rots under his Dams belly. Many or most of these Church Lands were sold at Robin Hoods penny worths, others bestowed on the Nobility, and Gentry, to engage them to uphold and further the sacriledge, some exchanged for other Lands. All these immense summes, as they were ill gotten, so were they as ill spent in the Kings unne­cessary wa [...]s with Scotland, and France: For by these sales most of the treasure of the Land fell into the Kings hands, who transpor­ted and exhausted the same in his forraine wars, leaving the Realme without its common stocke of Bullion, through want whereof the King was forced to stampe his face in Brasse, andPeuter had been fitter for a great plat­ter face. compell his Subjects by crying downe the pure and good money, to take the same: Neither did most of those thrive better, who purchast of the King Church Livings, the Lands of the Church sympathizing in nature with the hearbe Traphenio, which con­sumes both it selfe, and all Plants growing with it. No otherwise (as hath beene well observed) the Lands and Patrimonies of the Church (like the Horse of Gn. Seius, or the goodly Indian Elephant fatall to many Masters, and great Monarkes) have beene the over­throw, ruine, and undoing of the owners, possessors, and purchasers.

The Parliament could not but understand the King had no title or right to seize on the Possessions of the Church, being bestowed on Clergy men by the founders and benefactours for pious uses ordained to the service of God: Wherefore I wonder why they would condiscend to such unjust grants, and confirme the injurious depredations by Acts of Parliament.

Many of the Parliament were sharers and gainers in these unlawfull Perquisites, and if any out of conscience did withstand the Kings will and demands, his custome was to send for one of the chiefe opposers, and whispering in his eare, tell him Sirrha, I have such a businesse in agitation, and I understand you, and some others your Companions hinder it, let me have it done, or I'le have your throate cut. In such circumstances, what should the poore soules doe? It is good sleeping in a whole ski [...].

Twas a supreme Providence of God, that Henry the 8 raigned not in these dayes; our Patriots (the zealous Burgesles of the present Parliament) would have againe, and againe con­tradicted, and frustrated his lawlesse desires, though every one had lost as many lives as a cat has.

I cannot tell that. The Lyon, the Asse, and the Wolfe went a hunting, with condition the spoile should be e­qually divided: They kill a fat Buck; the Asse is appointed to cut out the shares, who with much care and scruple deals to every one an equal part. The furious Lyon with much indignatiō tears silly Signeur Asno in peeces, and commands the Wolfe to make the division, who reserving a poore shoulder to himselfe, pre­sents all the rest to his Lord and Soveraigne, who well contented, asked the Wolfe where he had learned to divide with such equa­lity. And it like your Majesty, answered the Wolfe, my foolish Brother Asse has taught me this distributive Justice: You cannot imagine (suppose King Henry had beene reserved to these times) how effectually in such circumstances one contradicting Asses head c [...]op [...] off, would have moved and tertified the rest of his Brethren, and make them plyant to the Kings will and desires. But it is memorable, that this Prince, who against the Lawes of God and man, had violated, frustrated, and diverted the Wills and Legacies of so many thousands, should not have his owne will and testament scarce in one point fulfilled. And having comman­ded his Sonne should be brought up in the Romane Catholick Re­ligion, and there should be no Protectour, the condition and am­bition of a Protectour being rendred most odious to him, by the memory of Richard D [...]ke of Gloster Protectour, to Edward 6. The Duke of Somerset was made Protectour of the yong King, and the said Duke innovated all matters concerning Religion, and the worship of God, made a havoke also of the Church Goods; the Kings 16. Executors being put out of Authority.

I have read that Henry the Eight, at his entrance into the Regallity, found six hundreth forty and five goodly, faire, and rich Monasteries, Priories, Frieries, and Nunneries, ninty, and six faire Colledges (besides those of the Universities) one hundred and ten Hospitalls, two thousand three hundred seaventy foure Chauntries and free Chappels, which were in building ever since [Page 18] our receit of Christianity these were all pulled downe, ruined, and defaced in the space of 18. or 19. yeares, and all the Lands, Tenements, Hereditaments, and Rents amounting to above one hundred and fifty thousand pound yearely, [...]ccording to the Rates of those times, and a great part thereof were also Rents of Assize, were seized on by the King, distracted to, and prophaned by Lay­men.

A man would conceive that Henry the Eight having so fl [...]iced the Church, very little should be left for after commers to pray upon; yet notwithstanding Seimour and Dudly could plentifully gleane after King Henries harvest: For Dudly then onely Viscount Lisl [...], afterwards Earle of Warwick, and finally Duke of Northumberland disdaining the equality, and competition of 16. Executors, perceiving Seimour Earle of Harford, to be a man of no wisdome or courage; yet respected for his affibility, and fortunate, rather then valoro [...]s managing his charge of im­ployment in France and Scotland, ambitious and desirous to sur­mount his fellow Executors in the administration of all businesses private and publick touching the King and the Kingdome, as Uncle to the King, but withall observed, that he had not capaci­ty to digest, or plausibly mannage affaires of high concernment; wherefore he insinuated nearely and dearely into his friendship, and put him on to attempt [...]he Protectou [...]ship over the yong King, and so to breake and shatter the Authority, and equality of the 16. Executors; forseeing, that he would easily split himselfe, and fall into some such errour of State, that he (Dudly) making the Protectour a stalking Horse to his ambitious ends) might at his owne times take occasion to ruine, and put downe againe, and so himselfe being popular assume the sway of all matters into his own hands. And so accordingly by a combination betwixt these 2. Seimour is made Protectour, and Duke of Somerset, Dudly Earle of Warwick, who thrust the Protectour upon all desperate actions to make him (as they did) odious to the King, Nobility, and Gen­try. His Engines perswaded the Dutches to incense her husband against his Brother Thomas Seimour, Lord Sudely, that he sought to take away his life, thereby to have his place of Protectour; whereupon he procured his Brother upon feigned suggestions to be attainted by Parliament, and the Act was no sooner passed, [Page 19] then by Warrant from himselfe, his Noble Brothers head was chopt off. Warwick also advised and urged the dull Protectour to make a sudaine alteration both in State and Religion; in the at­tempt whereof, Doctour Gardiner Bishop of Winchester, Doctour Bonner of London and divers other Bishops opposing this innova­tion were committed to Prison. And these two Church robbers so playd their parts, that all silver Chalices, Cruits, Crosses, Pixes, Candlesticks, Censors, Basons, consecrated silver and golden Vessels, Copes, Vestments, and other Church Ornaments richly embrodered, were taken out of all Churches, and for satisfaction of the people, first carryed into the Kings Wardrope, but after­wards converted to their owne uses▪ Also all Lands, Tenements, and Hereditaments given for upholding Lamp [...]s, Lights, and o­ther pious uses fell into the absolute disposall of the King, or ra­ther of the Protectour; and Warwick, who still pushed on the Protectour into these hairebraine and precipitate courses, and af­terwards made them matters of Engrievance against him. Likewise all Religious Monuments were demolished, and amongst the rest the most stately curious Worke of the Cloyster Charnell house, and daunce of Paules, which two Chappels were turned into shoppes, and the stones thereof, together with the Strand Church, the Strand Inne, two Bishops houres, being all of them standing together, and the sumptuous Church of St. Johns without Smithfield were all pulled downe, and the materialls together with the ground in the Strand, converted into a dwelling house, with­out either Church or Chappell (as King James observed) to which end also the Church of St. Margaret in Westminster was designed; but before the pulling downe thereof the Protectours head was chopt off for a businesse wherein he might have had the benefit of his Clergy, but through the justice of God, he who had been such an Enemy to Religion, the Clergy, and all Learning, never re­membred to demand it: Having first lost the love of the yong King his Nephew, the Nobility, and people, for the death of the Lord Sudely his Brother, his cruelty to the Bishops and Clergy at home, and the Scottish Clergy abroad, his conversion of 2 Chur­ches, 2 Bishops houses, and their Chappells, and Chauntries on both sides of Paules, the Cloyster, and Charnell into a dwelling house for himselfe, without Church or Chappell therein; where­by [Page 20] the people deem'd him irr [...]ligious, an Atheist and a Demi-devil. After whose death Warwick who was newly created D. of Nor­thumberland, engrossed the sway of all matters within the Realme, who though a Romane Catholick, yet such was his coveteous­nesse, that he likewise exceedingly robbed the Church, and under pretence of the Kings necessities, sold all Jewels, Chalices, Cros­ses, Candl [...]sticks, Censors of Gold and Silver, Copes, and Orna­ments of the Church, leaving to every Church one Chalice, one Communion cloth, and one Su [...]plice, he made also by sale of Chauntry Lands great summes of money: Thus you have heard how by making a Schisme, and division in the Church, King Hen­ry seized on the Church Livings and Treasure: after him the Pro­tectour made an absolute separation, and converted Churches and Chappels to prophane uses, robbed all the Churches of their Ri­ches and Ornaments. Dudley Duke of Northumberland, although a Catholick, yet continued, and made more wide this breach for his owne ambitious and coveteous ends; but how Gods heavy vengeance overtooke them all, our Chronicles doe sufficiently and lamentably testifie: The King dying a begger, and in much desperation mumbling these last wordes, Monkes, Friers, Brian, wee have lost all. I should have told you, how being in these des­perate agonies, advised by some to erect his thoughts, and to call upon God for mercy; he answered how could he expect mercy, who who had never spared mans life in his wrath, nor womans ho­nour in his lust? And he who per fas, & [...]efas, so multiplyed wiv [...]s to leave a succession of Heires, after some few yeares had not one left qui mingeret ad pariel [...]m, and in lesse then threescore yeares all his Issue extinct. The Prot [...]ctour egged, and cheated into despe­rate courses, by Northumberland, afterwards supplanted, deposed, imprisoned, fined, arr [...]igned, condemned, and executed by means of the same Northumberland, who likewise having contrived and prosecuted the destruction of a Religion, which in his conscience he thought the true, and onely Religion, as appeares by his answer to Sir Anthony Browne (afterwards Viscount Mountacute) to whom, and others moving him for the restitution of the Romane Religion, he replied: Albeit he knew the same Religion to be true, yet seeing a new Religion was begun, RƲN DOG RƲN DEVILL, he would goe forwards: I say this great Duke, [Page 21] for Treason against the Crowne, the succession whereof he would have diverted, and settled upon the Lady Jane, and his owne Po­sterity, (or as many believed on himselfe by marryage with the true Heire, the Lady Mary) was beheaded, and on the scaffold sincerely professed the Romane Religion, bewailing much that blinded by ambition, he con [...]ived a facility by alteration of Re­ligion to compasse, and a [...]chieve his own ends; he deplored his exe­crable attempts inj [...]rious to the Church, trai [...]rous to the Crowne, pernicious to the Commonwealth, vouching for witnesse of his faith, D. Heath Archbishop of Yorke, and afterwards Chancelour.

You speake of strange dilapidations and depredations of the Church; yet Queene Elizabeth, King James, and his Son our Soveraigne King Charles have no wayes been injurious, but favourers, advancers, and beneficiall to the Clergy.

Queene Elizabeth to secure her title (in question by reason of her Fathers marriage with Anne of Bullen) against Ma­ry Queene of Scots reputed by many the true Heire following the advise of her new States-men, but deep Polititians altred the whole frame of Eclesiasticall affaires, put downe the old Religi­on, to which the Kingdom but 4 or 5 years before was reconciled, after the breach in King Henry the Eight, and Edward the sixts Raigne, deposed the Bishops, banished and imprisoned the most eminent Clergy men; all the Parish Priests were either to conforme themselves to the new brought in Religion, or to loose their Benefices; and this was not onely in London, but through­out the whole Kingdome; and you may imagine in what a puzzle were the poore Curates, Parish Priests, Prebends, Deanes, Bishops, Arch Bishops, when they must either loose their lively-hoods, or else assent to, and professe such Doctrines which were diametri­cally opposite to their avite faith and Religion. And this Persecu­tion was far more cruell then the present affliction of the Clergy­men in and about London since the beginning of this Parliament, which the Authour (and it seemes he is a learned man) is pleased to stile the Eleaventh Persecution.

I have read this Booke, and the Gentleman (whosoe­ver made it) hath many observable passages; we will discourse of it anon: in the meane time I pray proceed.

Dr. Juell Bishop of Salisbury in a Sermon before Q. [Page 22] Elizabeth, saies, that the a [...]cient Churchmen being thrust out of their livings, a company of illitterate Mechanicks were planted in their roomes, such who could but write and read, and gather in Tithes for their Patrons use, with courchees for some wages for their journey work, which made the Clergy so contemptible, that a Zealous Minister heavily co [...]lained, that no Gentleman would bestow his sonne on the Ministery, nor his Daughter on the Minister: Yet in [...]ime (as ou [...] English wits are pregnant) the Universities aff [...]rded a Clergy sufficiently learned for humane lit­terature, Sermons and Sophistry; but scarce ever lanched into the depth of Learning, (the Metaphysiques, and Schoole Divini­ty) though most capable of such penetrations, yet for certaine jealous policies debarred them. 'Tis true Queene Elizabeth suf­fered her owne, and new made Bishops and Clergy to injoy what was left the Church, after the many sacrilegious violences, and robberies of Henry the Eight her Father, Somerset, and Northum­berland; yet she did not restore to the Church such Lands were in the possession of the Crowne [...]▪ and belonged to the Church; though her Sister Queene Mary [...]ad left her a faire precedent in that nature. Nor would she ever condiscend that the marriages of Ministers should be lawfull, nor their children legitimate, (the Matrimony of such Parents by ancient Canons, being made invalid, as persons inhabiles ad contrahendum) which King James af­terwards did by Act of Parliament, and as he was a Prince lear­ned himselfe, so he was a great favourer, and advancer of lear­ning and learned men. And certainely if our Universities had followed his prescripts and advice, wee had knowne many Di­vi [...]es of more solid e [...]udition, though perhaps not of so great Elo­quence. His Son K. Charles a Prince adorned with all the endow­ments of a Gentleman, a favourer of all Sciences, a lover and advancer of all the Clergy men, who could entitle themselves to learning; yet infortunate in, and for the Clergy, the quarrels be­twix [...] the Kingdomes beginning about Church businesses, and the wofull consequences of those Scottish quarrels and English combustions, being the imprisonment of his Sacred Majesty, the expulsion of his Royal bedphere and Issue, the ruine of the King­dome, putting downe of Episcopacy, the sale and alienation of Bi­shops Lands, and with thē the overthrow of Learning, the che [...]i­shing [Page 23] and advancement of Learning, being the Nurse, or ra­ther the Mother of studies and good litterature. Finally the alte­ration of Religion, and leaving the people, (the present being put downe) in a quandary what Religion they shall next have, and be forced to prof [...]sse.

I must confesse, that it is very strange, what the Au­thour of the Eleaventh Persecution writes, that in the space of 12. yeares, Religion was changed foure times, and this done by Act of Parliament.

And is it not then as lamentable, that our English Nation must still keepe their consciences prepared to embrace, and professe what Religion the Parliament will put upon t [...]m, or undergo such penalties, as imprisonments, mulcts, premunires, and the like, as the Parliament shall impose on Non-conformists, and tender consciences, as wee see hath been practised these ma­ny yeares [...]nent and against such who refused to heare the Divine Service, which is now declared to be damnable and superstitious. But though Princes and Rulers may compell Subjects under them to conforme themselves to the present and practised Discipline of the Church, yet such conformity is rather an hypocriticall shew, then a reall profession: For as Lactantius saies well, who can im­pose on me a necessity to believe what I would not▪ or not be­lieve what I would: Therefore in these occasions a wise Gover­nour will use that temper and patient prudence, which he practi­ses when his Lute or Viol is out of tune. He do's not in anger breake the instrument, or cut the strings, but g [...]ly winde them up, or softly slakning let them [...]owne: So Quod in fidibus, ho [...] in fide, when any Christians beliefe is Hererodoxall, a discreete Ma­gistrate will not cruelly destroy the misbelieving Su [...]ject, but by gentle perswasions, efficatious reasons, endeavou [...] to mollifie his will, and rectifie his understanding, well knowing the minde of man is noble, and like a generous and high couraged horse, that will goe better guided by a snaffle, then curbed by a bit; remem­bring also that o [...] Salust. both men and Cities are rather over­throwne, then bettered by too severe judgements.

But to permi [...] sundry Religions in a Kingdome, is a­gainst the safety of the State, by reason of the contentions, ha­treds, heart burnings, and combustions which ordinarily accom­pany the severall professors.

You may imagine so; but I am sure the Aegyptian Kings thought and practised orherwise, who as Diodorus Siculus record [...]th purposely brought in, and cherished diversities of Re­ligions to secure their Empire from the Subj [...]cts conspiracies. And Ammianus Marcellinus an Heathen Authour writes, that Ju­lian the Emperour convoked all the Christi [...]n Bish [...]ps into his Palace, and friendly admonished them and the Laity (all dissenti­ons layd aside) quietly without molesting one another to enjoy the liberty of the [...]r conscience, and every one follow that Religi­on which he liked best, which saies Ammi [...]nus, he therefore did that by their disunion in Religion he might prevent all unanimity in plo [...]ting and conspiring against him. You'l say these Mon [...]rkes of Aegypt were Pagans, and Julian a Renegado and Apostata. I confesse 'tis true, but what then will you answer to the moderati­on of Valentinian? Therefore much commended by the same Hi­storian; for that amidst the diversity of so many Religions, (though he professed himselfe, and was a Catholick) yet he never persecuted any for their conscience, nor compelled his Subjects to embrace this or that Religion, nor with threatning Edicts con­strained them to professe that faith which he himselfe professed: Such also was the favourable deportment of Theodosius, and in our Fathors dayes of Charles the fift, and other pious E [...]perours; whereas it is remarkable, that such Princes, who have been extra­ordinarily vitious and impious, have likewise been notoriously cruel in the persecution of the Church▪ Instances may be made in Nero, Domitian, Commodus, Constantinus Coprononymus, and di­verse others.

What Persecutions the Heathen Princes raised against Gods Church, was either out of zeale to their Idols, or rather out of madnesse: for those which you have named, and some others were rather Monsters then men, and as their private actions were most degenerate from the dignity of man, so their publick fury, and persecution of Christians were inhumaine and diabolicall: But I am astonished that such Princes and Statesmen▪ who are in­signized with the indelible character of a Christian, should make Religion a stalking horse to their ambitious, and covetous aimes, quarrell with, and alter Religion, defame and persecute the Cler­gy, onely for sacrilegious ends, to rob, and make spoiles of the [Page 17] Church as Henry the 8. Seimour the protectour, and Dudley did.

I dare not averre (as the Authour of the eleventh Persecution positively doth) that these hurly-burlies since 1641. and the alteration both of Religion, and Government in the Kingdome were plotted and effected for sinister ends, and private interests, and all those who concurred, and furthered them had their peculiar ends and indirect aimes. 1. The Courtie [...]s hoped to thrust out the Kings favourites, and be advanced themselve [...] in their roomes. 2. The Country Nobility hoped by new modelling the Court, to gaine prefermen [...], and the disposall of all chiefe Of­fices of State. 3. The Gentry were whetted on with desires of revenge for private injuries, ease of Monopolies, and taxes, hopes of preferment, gaine, and imployment. 4. Tub-preachers▪ Lecturers, and Sect [...]ries hoped by this alteration to invade other mens livings, and that the Bishops lands should be alotted to main­taine preaching Ministers, but in this they were frustrated of their expectation: the Armies arreares like Pharo's leane kine devouring them, and the fat of the land, and to which in time the whole Kingdome will be indebted in far greater summes then it is worth: and the Souldiers sword has more power then a Serjants Mace to arrest debters. Finally the Lawyer, the Clowne and Ci­tizen had perverse ends to be obtained by these al [...]erations. The Lawyer to thrust the Clergy out of all authority and jurisdiction, the Country man to defraud the Church of Tiches, and the Citi­zens expected by these mutations to see their London another Or­mus for commerce, and Trade. This was the Utopia fancied, hoped for, and plotted by many. But the wofull eff [...]cts are the captivity of the King, the profligation of his Royall con­sort, and issue, the Nobility in danger to be levelled, the Gentry (for a great part) actually begered, Merchandize debarred, all sorts of Trade decayed, the Commonalty almost starved, Religion even thrust out of the Kingdome; finally the Ruine of a late flouri­shing Nation: every where much aboundance of misery, no where the least appearance of Remedy. Yet few reflect on, or retract the true cause of these calamities, our sinnes, but like Carriers horses we plod on, yea weary our selves in the Rode way of iniquity, and toile out our selves in walking craggy Paths. Sap. 8. The Nobi­lity, how much have many of them degenerated from that heroik [Page 26] spirit, which informed and adorned their magnanimous forefa­thers; yet like that stupid Romane, who marrying Tullies wife, fondly conceited he should have in Dowry with her Tullies Elo­quence: So these fondly possesse themselves because they discend from such honourable Ancestours, they must be Heires, as of their Stemme and Revenues, so of their worth, virtues, and respect. Oh the Fable of the cheated Horse, and Hart, would learne these Grandees wit, (if they were capable of so supreme a benefit) and teach who rides, switches, and spurres them: But now (though horses) they have been so long j [...]ded and cowed, they dare not once recalcitrate. The Gentry profuse, vaine, and de­bauched, and too many of them, because they will serve no God, believe there is none▪ and measure the excellency of their wits by their proficiency in Atheisme. The Ci [...]izen more malicious, proud, hypocriticall, covetous then ever; yet is in his owne eyes a Saint, and would appeare so in the eyes of others: In all wic­ked attemp [...]s most desperately valiant, but more timorous then Hares when true valour should be showne, as appeared in the sur­render of the City, and the Ovant March of the (then) tag rag Army through the Towne. They were the first seconds, the con­stant fomenters, and obstinate supporters of these unnaturall, and Realme-destroying combustions: And it is much to be feared will be the last, shal dearely pay for, and heavily repent their un­advised follies. Generally the whole Kingdome stiff [...]necked, bru­tish, and irreligious, uncertaine what faith to embrace, themselves yet haters, and persecutors of what Religion is profest by Oathes.

For what I can collect out of your discourse, the Church hath been most passive in these Revolutions, and combu­stions, the Clergy men being thrust out of their livings, and im­prisoned, their Wives and children turned out of doores, Episco­pacy voted downe, the lands of Bishops, Deanes, and Chapters, sold and alienated. Is there any thing now considerable left to be made a prey on in the next grassation?

Yes, for a new generation, there remaine Churches to be pulled downe, and Parsonages to be made money of. So the Protectour coverted so many Churches, and Chappels to the [...]recting his stately Somerset house.

But then in what place should we serve God?

As they doe in Scotland, in spacious Barnes good e­nough for Tub-preachers. And what a fine spectacle will it be to have Sir Aminadab hoist up in a basket in the middle of the barne (like some puny Prentice that fetches a Cheese at Bosomes Inne) and from thence plentifully distribute chaffe and chopt hay to the cakling Geese his audience. Your Presbyteriall Discipline is likely to be established for the space of three yeares, if the Trea­ty conclude well betwixt the King and Parliament, but then or before that I prognosticate it shall not continue; 'tis already so cried down, and the Kingdome is afraid and weary of it, even be­fore they have it, as observed to be most cruel, and seditious cruel; for what is the Discipline of the Kirke of Scotland? Bu [...] all se­verity and inhumane cruelty, and barbarisme. The HORNE a punishment not fit for Turkish Salv [...]s, much lesse for Christian soules. And with what rabid eagernesse did your Grandfather John Calvine prosecute Michael Servet at G [...]neva, whose History and death, (himselfe being the Authour of the mercilesse Execution he writ: Nor was he more favourable to Valen­tinus Gentilis, his owne Disciple, who by Mr. Calvins instigating the Magistrates, was condemned to death; but recanting his He­resie, Valentinus contrary to his Oath got secretly out of Geneva, when r [...]lapsing into his old errours, he was put to a miserable death at Berne in Switzerland. Notwithstanding many have ac­cused Calvin of most erroneous positions against the goodnesse o [...] God, as also the dignity of our Saviour Christ his Sonne. Like­wise your Presbyterian, or Puritan Faction raised this present or Eleaventh Persecution, as our often cited Authour calls it, against the Protestant Church, and because you woul kill two birds with one bolt, you involved with them the Papists. How seditious and dangerous to Commomwealthes you have been, Germany, the Low Countries, France, and Holland testifie. The Bellowes and Bontifews to kindle and blow the Coal [...]s of Rebellion, mutiny and dissention have been your Chamber Lecturers, and Tub-prea­chers, and the onely way for Magistrates to secur [...] Common­wealths, is either to inhibite such Assemblies, or take speciall care contentious and railing Sermons be not made, which stir up the people not to devotion, or deedes of ch [...]rity, and mutuall love; but to dislike of the present government in the Commonwealth, [Page 20] discipline in the Church, contempt of Magistrates, and hate of their spirituall Pastours: This was foreseene, and foretold by D. Laud Archbishop of Canterbury, (a man of great parts, and much foresight) who in his booke against F. Fisher prognosticates the overthrow of his Protestant Chu [...]ch by the active and pragma­tick Puritan. Cyrill lately Patria [...]k of Constantinople is a [...]resh example of the tumultuous, and unquiet spirit of Puritanisme. He kept correspondence with G. Abbot, Predecessour to D. Laud, and sent his Nephew into England to be thr [...]oughly indoct [...]na [...]ed in the Principles of Calvinisme, which he attempted to b [...]ing a­mongst the Grecians; but being accused of new fangled Novel­ties, he was thrust out of his Patriarchall Throne, and lastly by command of the grand Signiour had his head cut off from his shoulders; the Turkish Emperour being informed how da [...] ­gerous the Calvinian Doct [...]ine is to Monarchike Government.

Suppose what you said were true, yet as far as I can perceive your Independency is more opposite, and pernicious both to Monarchy, as also all other formes of government, whe­ther civill, or Ecclesiasticall: but I pray before you answer me, speake what an Independent is.

I will upon condition you tell me what [...] Pro [...]estant is, which appellation your Anabaptist, Brownist, Pu [...]i [...]n, Inde­pendent, Antinomian, and many other Sects claimes, all challen­ging to b [...] the true Protestant Church. Consult with the Bishop of Armach, Doctour Pride [...]ux▪ B. of Worcester, and learned Dr. Holdsworth but take heed of committing an Arabick Scopelism [...]. That a Purita [...] should be a strangers Angel, a Neighbours plague, a Saint abroad, a Divell at home, is our Authors, though a most bitter character: But to your question, bec [...]use the true Indepen­dent thinkes it a thing unreasonable, that Christians should be persecuted for their consciences; therefore Atheists, who have no consciences, Jewes, and the scumme of all Sects assume to themselves the title of Independents, that under that shadow and name they may shelter their God denying Doctrines, and soule destroying Principles: Whereas the nature of true Independen­cy is so copiously furnished with abstruse quiddities, rare perfecti­ons, and sublime formalities, that the characte [...]isme of the Con­crete must emulate Lactantius his description of Archimedes [Page 21] sphere, and Maximus Tyrius negative expression of the D [...]ity▪ and divine pulchritude.

A true Independent therefore is a terrestriall Angel, divinely spiri­ted, who in this multiplicity of Religions, with much care, labour, and devout invocation of the onely Independents aide, makes an inquiry which is the true Church, in which the believers may be saved▪ out of which in­evitable ruine is to be feared; nor does he in this search depend on his owne abilities, but rely on the testimonies of sacred Scriptures, i [...] helped with the consent of learned Fathers, and holy Doctours: Having found that conspicuous City on the Mount, he incorporates himselfe a Member of the same, firm [...]ly resolving, that neither love of life, or feare of death, no tribula [...]ion, no persecution shall make him forsake his union with that body, nor seperate him from the love of God which i [...] in Christ Jesus. He u [...] nobly prepared to suffer the worst death for the profession of his faith; yet piously abhors any should undergo the least vexation for his Religion. He do's, or do's not to his N [...]ighbours▪ as he desires to be dealt with by them. He can with a magnanimous minde suffer wants, and content with his owne mediocrity, he will not flatter great Ones, be no slave to their humours, nor active instrument to bring about their in­direct ends: So long as he is in debt, he accounts himselfe no freeman, but dependant on his Creditour, therefore makes haste to redeeme him­selfe. He can and dares fight with a Foe, but knowing his owne disordi­nate passions, vitious habits, unbrideled appetites, more dangerous ene­mies esteemes an Independency from their tyrannick Lawes, and impetu­ous sway, the happy fruit of his combates with, and Victories over them.

I could wish my selfe enroled in the list of such Inde­pendents as you have described. But we have onely heard of Xe­nophons Prince, Platoes Common wealth, Tullies Oratour, and our Sir Thomas Mores well Ordered Utopia.

Do you conceive these were never extant? surely, ma­ny Histories make mention of Cyrus, a Monarke of many King­domes, a Prince according to Zenophons institution, in whom his subjects were happy, but the barbarous Massag [...]tes envying both his and their happinesse, surprized and detayned him in dur [...]nce; where he comported himselfe with that prudence and magnani­mity, that his fetters (like King Agrippaes go [...]den chaine) more became him then his Imperiall Diademe. Tis true, Justin out of Herodotus, relates this victorious Monarke was overthrowne and [Page 30] [...]laine by the Scythian Queene. The Calipolitans in Greece ob­served Platoes Lawes and forme of government, at what time Phi­lip banished out of Macedon all the skellums and raska [...]s of his Country, and compelled them to live in a City which hee had built purposely for them called Poneropolis, that is the Town of Knaves. These plundering Varlets with an anslaught tooke Calipolis, killed man, woman and childe, ransack [...], and fired the Towne: since which time, never any Common wealth was governed according to Platoes institution. The Romans often heard Tullies Oratour di­vinely preach, till Fulvia tha [...] wicked woman cut out his tongue, for Philippizing her husband the Triumvir. Lastly, Sir Thomas More erected his Ʋtopia in terra incognita, adjoyning to Mar dell ZƲR, and some Columba, Vesputius, or Sir Francis Drake heere­after may discover it. Now for my Independent, I must confesse thousands lay claime to that title, but never attaine to the dignity; yet there are in [...]umerous qualified wi [...]h this celestial heate, a com­municated particle of that divine fire. Who after they have long laboured to purchase Rachel, marry indeed the same beau [...]iful Lady (true Independency) and are not cousened by Laban with bleare eyed Leah, And as there is a vicissi [...]ude in humaine [...]ff [...]ires both spirituall and temporall. In Queene Elizabeths Raigne, Re­ligion was quite altered (the old Clergy excluded) a new Mini­stry with Prelates instituted; I know not by what meanes you have now cryed them downe, expeld, and turned them out of doores, and have your trienniall sway: Before that be expired, you must give my heroick and ingenuous independents leave to come in play, extrude you, and institute a to be admired Repub­lique both in Civill and Ecclesiasticall administration. And then never feare to be put to the Horne, carry fagors, or in a Caroach take your journey to Tiburne. No, every man shall si [...] quietly un­der his owne Vine, and blithly chaunt hymnes of his owne com­posing, better me [...]red and far more melodious then those of Hop­kins, Sternehold, and put in Robert Wisdome too. Weele have no Sesquiped [...]lian Church man make his Reader groane a [...] the hyper­bolicall title of the twelfth persecution, in the meane time KA MEE, and I'le KA THEE; give us licence to injoy our Religion, weele grant you leave to use your liberty of con­science.

Indeed I have much wondred why the Authour would stile his booke, the Eleaventh Persecution.

Observe, in one onely ROME, within the space of little more then 200. yeares were abouts 300000. Martyrs bloudily butchered, besides what numbers were massacred in other patts of the Romane Empire: What cruel persecutions did the Arians raise against the Catholicks under Constantius, Valens, Gen­sericus, and other Princes infected with that Heresie? Weele come lower, and nearer home. Compare this Puritan Persecution of the Protestant Church with King Henries cruelties against both Protestant and Catholicks: Queene Maries punishments of Protestants, and this, shall scarce appeare a silly fleabiting; for in all this Persecution, I heare not of one Minister executed, no not of a bloody nose or broken pate: I have seen more bloodshed a cudgell playing in the streets. But (you will say) their Wives were turned out of doores at midnight. Alas poore Ladies, I am sorry for them; yet 'tis not recorded in any authentick Historie, that any of them got an ague by that incivility, though 'tis very likely they might take cold.

But these Parliamentary afflictions resemble Gods pu­nishments, descending to the third and fourth Generation, of those that hate them, (such they esteeme Royallists, Malignants, and Papists.) Now the Ministers have wives, sons, and daughters, and many of them being aged to have daughters, who can say to their daughters, rise up daughter, &c. and the Tribe of Levi hath for pa­trimony Benefices, Prebendaries, more proficuous, and honorable titles and revenues, all which being by the present Parliament ta­ken away for Non-conformity, or under the title of Malignancy, many Clergy mens condition must be most lamentable, suffering in a Posterior so long continued, who are all undone in the de­pauperating of one single Minister, Father, Grandfather, great Grandfather to a proletarily numerous generation.

Truely their case is much deplorable; I am very sor­ry, and much commiserate any Christian should so much suffer for the profession of his Faith, which in his conscience he imagines is conformable to the sacred Scriptures, acceptable to, and autho­rized by GOD himselfe. But with the hundred Protestant Mi­nisters thrust out of their Livings by the Puritan Faction, I will pa­rallell [Page 32] many hundred Recusants turned out of doores, and all they have by a premunire, and committed to perpetuall imprisonment by Parliamentary Authority for refusing to take a captious, litigious, and Meandrovs Oath, composed by a Renegado of his faith, to make quarrels amongst Christians; condemned by the supremeff Authority and Learning in Christend [...]me; misl [...]ked by some, who when they were poore impugned it, but growing rich were stou­test Champions for it; detested even by such, who though they abhor this O [...]th; yet unseasonably and ridiculously make a mouse trap of it, either to en [...]nare consciences, or fill prisons: For why should such Justices of Peace put to, and compell ignorant soules to take this Oath of Allegiance to the King, so am [...]iguous in Termes, so intricate in Clauses? yet they themselves by Votes, Demands, and Consultations endeavour to dethrone the same King? For refusing this schisme-making Oath, farced with so many soule-destroying Niceties how many hundred Recusants, poore and [...]ich, yong and old, men and women have been com­mitted to mercilesse Goales in, and about London, where for want of aire and sustenance, they have miserably perished? With great reason Aristotle sayes, D [...]ath is the most terrible of all things. 1. Because it makes a devorce betwixt the soule and the body. Two, That have bi [...] long time individual companions, the soule by conversion to phantasmes taking pleasure in what objects the body is delighted in, the body an officious Minister, and active instrument of all the commands, (whether jost or unjust) the soule it's Queene and Mistris shall despotically impose. Secondly, a perpetuall separation followes at the heeles of this grim Monster, of all things most deare both to the soule and body, wife, children, friends, servants, honours, riches, dignities, offices, and pleasures. We will travaile no further then, and about London, and reckon betwixt 20. and 30. Priests condemned to death, most of them ex­ecuted for Religion since the beginning of this Parliament. And the circumstances of their deaths makes the Monster (ugly in his owne shape) appeare more horrid and ghastly. They were tryed before Judges who resolved to hang them before they were tryed: They were tryed by a Jury of Midlesex (who starts not even at that very name?) Witnesses against them were pillored, and perjured sons of Belial, who would for five shillings sweare [Page 33] innocent Naboth hath blaspemed God, and the King, Reg. 3. c. 21. and for ten shillings betray ou [...] Saviour, were he againe passive, and walked under the notion of a Priest, drawne on a sledge to Tyburne, they are there [...]anged, their bellies ript up, and hearts being taken out of their bodies flung into the fire under the gal­lowes; then as a Butcher cu [...]s up, and quarters an Oxe, or Calfe, the Priests (before mangled) carcases are cut up, and divided into foure severall quarters: with these disorderly tumbled, and hudled into a capacious basket, Gregory Brandon the Common Hangman returnes to Newgate, sitting in Ovant pride on the [...]ledge like some Triumphant Consul; but looking more terrible then dread­full Automedon, or the bloody Chariot driver of Vindictive Tomy­ris, all besprinkled with reeking Gore of the slaughtred Persian Monarck, the Catastrophe of this Tragedy is purboiling the foure quarters in a vast brasse pot, to make a prepared dish for the Fowles of the aire, to which purpose they are dispersed and placed on severall Gates of the City, the heads on poles over London bridge, where they hourely preach to the City, Suburbs, and Coun­trie; how that fu [...]ction, and those men, for whom, and the ex­ercise of which all our Churches were built, Universities erected, and Colledges founded, is judged by the Lawes of our Realme Treason, and they as Traitours executed. Of seaven Priests con­demned together, 1641, two only survive, the rest consumed with the tediousnesse of a miserable imprisonment, want of aire, and all commodities necessary for the sustenance of life. All of them have been divers times robbed and plundred their bookes, their clothes, considerable sums of money taken from them, contrary to the Lawes of God, and the Realme, the honour of this Nation, the dignity and authority of the Sheriffes of London, to whose charge & care the Prison is concredited, & all these f [...]lonies done by the Parliaments Officers, to whō though Petitions were addres­sed for remedy, yet no redresse was ever vouchsafed: in [...]omuch if in any, surely in this occasion may that of Seneca be verified, it is sometime a kinde of mercy to kill soone. And who hath read of Ignatius the Martyrs ten Leopards accustomed to be more efferated when you are beneficiall to them, will not censure these expressi­ons too hyperbolicall.

Me thinkes the Romane Catholicks should relieve such [Page 34] persons, who for their owne Religion suffer in Prisons.

Alas they have been so flieced, punished, and p [...]unde­red, that they have little or nothing for themselves, much lesse to maintaine so many in prison. And if you observe, the greatest part of the Kingdome groanes under the title, and burthen of Ma­lignancy or Delinquency, the Papists have a third charge, namely of Recusancy put in against them. And indeed for one of these three, or all, three parts of our Gentry are quite ruinated, and un­done: Onely such who are of, and belong to the Parliament, are the golden Calves of this Age, abdomenated Bulls plentifully feeding in the [...]ertile Pastures of Basan. Where­as, I know an illustrious Gentlemam, that has kept above a hundred Gallant Cockes of the Game worthy to en­ter the lists, and fight Duels before Marke Anthony, Octavi­an, and Lepidu [...] so exhausted for his Loyalty that he has scarce wherewithall to buy a leane Chicken for his dinner. You great Ladies that were wont to have their Madammoisel [...] Gargrave, or Egerton at a beck to mend their faule, or rectifie their Periwik, are now content to have homely Countrey Jo [...]ne supply the place of Cooke Maide, Chamber Maide, and Waiting Woman; yea vouchsafe sometimes to turne the spit, or scumme the pot them­selves. They have forgot how to sit (like the Lady Lobster) in a Coach: And onely know by tradition, that the Paradize of Pleasure (Spring Garden) and Groves of Adonis (Hide Parke) are extant, though like that at the Frontires of Eden, theres an interveening Zone debarres all accesse to them: Wherefore a Voyage now, and then to the Stillyard, or a Pilgrimage on foot to Totnam-Court is a very gratefull and much wished for recrea­tion. Yet in all these calamities (desolate beauties) doe they not forget their wonted devotions; but with much zeale say their prayers backward for the Parliament (the cause as they imagine of all their miseries) and hartily desire God will amend this wic­ked World,