ALthough I hope I shall always have too great a love for my Country, to design the opposing, or discouraging any thing, that may tend to the profit of it; acknowledging, that nothing can be more morally commendable, in men, then indeavours to advance the publike good; Yet having perused a short Treatise late­ly published by I. C. pleading for the bringing down of Interest from Six to Four per Cent. as not only being the Intetest of our Nation, but that upon which it puts the whole stress, of the prosperity of any Kingdom or Country; And not finding that satisfaction in it, as I expected, from a thing writ with so much pretended ad­vice; I shall desire leave of the Author to examine his grounds, and arguments, and that with a love to my Native Country, equal to his own, without having any private interest to my self in it.

The Treatise begins, with an observation of the pro­digious increase of Trade and Riches in the Ʋnited Ne­therlands, for which he gives 15 Reasons, and after­wards in a Suppliment four more, which are as follow­eth.

First, They have in their greatest Councils of State and War, trading Merchants that have lived abroad in most parts of the world; who have not only the Theoreti­cal Knowledge, but the Practical Experience of Trade, by whom Laws and Orders are contrived, and Peaces with [Page 4] Forreign Princes projected, to the great advantage of their Trade.

Secondly, Their Law of Gavel-kind, whereby all their Children possess an equal share of their Fathers estates after their decease, and so are not left to wrastle with the world in their youth, with inconsiderable assistance of for­tune, as most of our youngest Sons of Gentlemen in Eng­land are, who are bound Apprentices to Merchants.

Thirdly, Their exact making of all their Native Com­modities, and packing of their Herrings, Codfish, and all other Commodities, which they send abroad in great quantities; the consequence whereof is, That the repute of their sad Commodities abroad, continues always good, and the Buyers will accept of them by the marks, without opening; whereas the Fish which our English make in Newfound-Land and New-England, and Herrings at Yarmouth, often prove false and deeeitfully made, and our Pilchards from the West-Country false packed; sel­dom containing the quantity for which the Hogsheads are marked in which they are packed.

Fourthly, Their giving great incouragement and im­munities to the Inventors of New Manufactures, and the Discoverers of any New Mysteries in Trade, and to those that shal bring the Commodities of other Nations first in use and practice among them; for which the Author never goes without his due Reward allowed him at the Publique Charge.

Fifthly, Their contriving and building of great Ships to sail with smal charge, and not above one third of what we are at, for Ships of the same Burthen in England; and compelling their said Ships (being of smal force) to sail al­ways in Fleets, to which in all times of danger they allow Convey.

Sixthly, Their parcimonious and thrifty Living, which is so extraordinary, that a Merchant of one hun­dred thousand pound estate with them, will scarce spend so much per annum, as one of fifteen hundred pounds Estate in London.

Seventhly, The education of their Children, as well Daughters as Sons; all which, be they of never so great quality or estate; they always take care to bring up to write perfect good hands, and to have the full knowledge and use of Arithmetick and Merchants Accompts; the well understanding and practice whereof, doth strangely infuse into most that are the owners of that quality, of ei­ther Sex, not only an ability for Commerce of all kinds, but a strong aptitude, love, and delight in it; and in re­gard the women are as knowing therein as the men, it doth incourage their husbands to hold on in their Trades to their dying days, knowing the capacity of their wives to get in their Estates, and carry on their Trades after their Deaths: whereas if a Merchant in England arrive at any conside­rable Estate, he commonly withdraws his Estate from Trade, before he comes near the confines of old Age; recko­ning that if God should call him out of the world, while the main of his Estate is engaged abroad in Trade, he must lose one third of it, through the unexperience and unapt­ness of his Wife to such Affairs, and so it usually falls out.

Eightly, The lowness of their Customs, and the heighth of their Excise, which is certainly the most equal and indifferent Tax in the world, and least prejudicial to to any People, as might be made appear were it the subject of this discourse.

Ninthly, The careful providing for, and employment of their poor, which it is easie to demonstrate can never be [Page 6] done in England comparatively to what it is with them, while it's left to the care of every Parish io look after their own only.

Tenthly, Their use of BANKS, which are of so im­mence advantage to them, that some, not without good grounds, have estimated the Profit of them to the Publick to amount to at least one million of pounds sterling per an.

Eleventhly, Their Toleration in different Opinions in matters of Religion; by reason whereof many indu­strious People of other Countries, that dissent from the Established Government of their own Churches, resort to them with their Families and Estates, and after a few years cohabitation with them, become of the same Common interest.

Twelfthly, Their Law-Merchant, By which all Con­troversies between Merchants and Tradesmen are decided in three or four days time, and that not at the fortieth part (I might say in many cases not the hundredth part) of the charge they are with us.

Thirteenthly, The Law that is in use among them for transferrence of Bills for Debt from one man to another: this it of extraordinary advantage to them in their Com­merce, by means whereof they can turn their stocks twice or thrice in Trade, for once that we can in England: for that having sold our Forreign Goods here, we cannot buy again to advantage, till we are possest of our Money, which it may be we shal be six, nine, or twelve months in recove­ring: And if what we sell be considerable, it is a good man's work all the year to be following Vintners, and Shop­keepers for Money. Whereas, were the Law for trans­ferring Bills in practise with us, we could presently after sale of our Goods. dispose of our Bills, and close up our ac­counts. [Page] To do which, the advantage, ease, and accommo­dations it would be to Trade, is so great, that none but Mer­chants that have lived where that custom is in use, can value to its due proportion.

Fourteenthly, Their keeping up Publick Registers of all Lands and Houses, Sold or Mortgaged, whereby ma­ny chargeable Law-suits are prevented, and the securities of Lands and Houses rendred indeed, such as we common­ly call them Real Securities.

Fifteenthly, The Lowness of Interest of Money with them, which in peaceable times exceeds not three per cent. Per Annum: and is now, during this War with England, not above four per cent. at most.

The four other reasons in the suppliments are,

1. Although they have no Law expresly limiting Interest at present, yet they have other Laws which we cannot arrive to, which do effect the same thing among them, and would do the like among us, if we could have them: One whereof, is, their ascertaining Real Securities by their Publique Registers: for we see evidently Money is not so much wanting in England, as Securities, which men accompt Infallible; a remarkable instance whereof is; the East-India Company, who can and do take up what money they please, for four per cent. at any time.

2. Their constitution of Banks and Lumbards, whereby private persons that have but tollerable credit, may be sup­plyed at easie rates from the State.

3. Their Law for transferring Bills of Debt, menti­oned in the beginning of this Discourse.

4. Which is a Custom, and in effect may be here to our purpose accompted as a Law, is the extraordinary Fruga­lity used in all their Publique Affairs, which in their [Page 8] greatest Extremities have been such, as not to compel them to give above four per cent. for the loan of money.

Having premised these reasons, he notwithstanding puts upon that of Interest being at three per Cent. the whole stress, And because he cannot say, that ever In­terest was by Law brought under six per Cent. in Holland, he adds in his Suppliment, three Laws, they have a­mongst them, which, together with their frugality, he affirms, without any reason or proof given for it, is equivolent to the stating of Interest by Law, at 3. per. Cent. (to wit) Publick Registers, Banks and Lumbards, and the transferring Bills of Debt, But according to my reason, he ought to have rancked these last, with his 15 former reasons, of the increase of their Trade, and Riches, the rest of their good laws and orders, having their proportionable Influence upon Interest as well as they, and I must deny that these last Laws mentioned in his Suppliment are equivolent to a stinted Interest by Law, with us; because in Holland they have power to take what Interest they can get, which if they had a law stating their Interest as with us, they could not do.

But being desirous, to deal as Ingeniously with the Author, as is possible, I shal reduce his discourse to three assertions, which he seems to me, positively to maintain,

First, That Interest being brought down from six to four per Cent. at present, and hereafter to three, will a­lone certainly increase the trade and riches of this Kingdom, as Page 7 & 10.

Secondly, That Interest being lessened (as abovesaid) Land will immediately after the passing such a Law, yeild 30 years purchase at least, so that the Nobility and Gentry [Page 9] may presently reckon their estates doubled, and write instead of fifty, one hundred pounds upon all they have, Pag. 12, 13.

Thirdly, In his Suppliment he adds, that the matter in England is prepared for an abatement of Interest, and that it cannot be long obstructed, for that Nature will have its course. Pag. the 17.

If the truth of these assertions, to which I shall an­swer, had been made out, they would have carryed so much of publick good with them, as would have stop­ed all mens mouths, and made the greatest Ʋsurers asha­med, to have spoke against them; for who could have been so impudent, as to have opposed the doubling the estates of our Nation, when it is as easily done, as said, the matter of the Kingdom being so prepared for it, as he averrs, that there wants nothing but the word, let it be done, but our condition in this point, not seeming at all to me so clear, as it doth to him, I think it no hard task, to answer his arguments, and o­verthrow his foundation.

If after giving his first 14, and afterwards 4 supplimen­tary reasons, besides that of Interest, with some others, which might have been added, for the Increase of the Holland Trade, and Riches, he had concluded, that when we should find our selves under such circumstan­ces, we should find Interest to fall naturally of it self, to 4 and 3 per Cent. as the effects of those circumstances, I should have agreed with him; but without them, to fall Interest by a law to 4 and 3 per. Cent. as the thing which alone will make us full of Trade, Riches, and in both, able to ballance Holland, as he averrs it will, I deny, affirming, that to do what he propounds, is to [Page 10] force nature, which he grants will not be forced, and if the matter in England, is so prepared for an abate­ment of Interest, that it cannot be long obstructed, as he saith it is, we need no law for stating it, for nature will have its course with us, as well as in other Coun­tries, and he cannot instance, in any Country, where by a Law, Interest is set under 6 per Cent. and nature is best let alone unforced.

To prove his first assertion, that the lowness of Inte­rest is not the effect, but the cause of trade and riches, he argues from the greatness of our present trade, to what it was before An. 1545. that no Interest was set at all, as also from the Increasing of it since, as Interest hath by degrees, been brought lower and lower, and makes his observation, that from An. 1600 to 1635. there was an Increase of ten for one, in Merchants Estates, upon the Exchange, and that from the falling of Interest from 8 to 6 per Cent. there hath been a further increase of 10 for one, in Merchants Estates Pag. 7. After this, he troubles himself to prove our present condition as to Riches, to be much greater, then formerly, which he needed not have done, every one granting it: But to shew, how subject he is to mistake, I shal deny his In­stance, of the Nobilities wearing Doublets with Canvas backs, to be any proof at all, of our poverty then, and our riches now, or any thing more than the fashion or humour of those times: for to all that is versed in anti­quities, it is well known, that our Nobility was abun­dantly greater formerly, then now they are, and that their declining hath given rise to the general riches of the Kingdom, more then the abatement of Interest: and if I would follow the Authors method, in, arguing; I [Page 11] might better prove our present poverty, and former riches, from our Noblemens travelling antiently, with 100 servants and upwards, whereas now they travel, with 5 or 6. and some times fewer, then he our for­mer poverty, and present riches, by Doublets with Canvas backs.

Secondly, To prove the fall of Interest to be the effi­cient cause of our riches, he instanceth in the late im­provement of land in England, and Ireland, and confi­dently imposeth (as if it made for him) that by asking the question, what Interest any Country pays, it may by the answer be resolved, that according to the more or lesser Interest that they pay, the richer or poorer they are, bringing Scotland and Spain for examples of poverty, and France with Italy for riches: These two are all the reasons that I can find, he brings for proving his first assertion, which in truth are none at all, but the effects of other Circumstances, as shall in due place appear:

Now, he sets up some objections, and then answers them: but if I prove that Interest being reduced to a medium (as I shall hereafter make 6 per Cent. appear to be) the falling of it lower will not benefit, but in ge­neral prejudice the Nation, then taking notice of his objections and answers will be needless, and therefore shall only observe his answer to that Objection, That, if Interest should be fallen to 4 per Cent. the Dutch would call home their Money; to which he answers, That, if they should, it would be the better for us, Because, saith he, the Borrower is always a slave to the Lender: which reason being no more, in the case of English and Dutch, then it lies in that of English, and English; amounts to [Page 12] no less then the Condemning all borrowing, and lend­ing; and to the discovering his design, of ingrossing all trade, into the hands of a few rich Merchants, who have Money enough of their own to Trade with, to the excluding all young men, that wants it:

After his Objections, and Answers, he comes to e­numerate all sorts, that wlll be the better by the fall of Interest, but herein he proves nothing, but beggs the question, as he usually doth, in positively concluding, that the law for abatement being made, trade will im­mediately increase, lands will be double in value, and consequently the King, Nobility, Gentry, Merchants, Tradesmen, Farmers, Clothiers, Marriners, Porters, Pack­ers, all will be the better, and that we shall by this means, produce Samsons and Goliahs in stock, subtlety, and experience, to coap with our adversaries, on the o­ther side, a very plausible imposition; and I hope, though the Gentleman wants arguments to prove, that it must necessarily be so, he wisheth it would be so:

Now he comes to give two Instances against Inte­rest at 6 per Cent. and for the fall of it, one from old Audleys observing that 100 l. at Interest, at 10 per Cent. will in seventy years come to one hundred thou­sand pounds, wherein I affirm he is no less mistaken then in other things: The other, that the Sugar-Ba­kers in Holland, by reason of the lowness of Interest, can afford to give greater rates for our Barbadoes Sugars, not­withstanding the charge of carrying them into Holland, and grow richer by their trades, than ours can do that buys them at their own doors: But at last, he sparks out, and to shut the door of trade, to all others, but himself, and a few more, who peradventure have mo­ney [Page 13] enough to trade with, or at least uncontroulable credit, he recommends the Jewish Law against all Usu­ry, knowing well, none will lend money Gratis, Pag. 16.

This being the substance of the discourse, though I shal make answer to every particular in order, It will not be amiss, first to observe, that he makes use of the abuse of Interest, which no man pleads for (that being out of doors) to overthrow the profitable, moderate use of it, as in his instancing in Audleys observation of 100 l. at 10 per Cent. which no man speaks for, and his annexing a discourse against Interest, writ in 1621. when it was at 10 per Cent. Indeavouring thereby to im­pose a belief, that the Gentleman who writ that dis­course, was of his mind (who is for bringing Interest to 3 per Cent. and indeed to nothing) whereas it may be supposed, the Author of that book was contented with having it at 8 per Cent., because within four years after it was brought to that rate, and that otherwise, he would have writ further, It being probable, that he might live till after four years.

Thus having premised these observations, I come to make answer to his affertions, and his reasons for them, and beginning with the first, I deny, That the lowness of Interest, is the cause of riches, and affirm it to be only the effects of them; for if otherwise, every Country, ha­ving it in their power to be rich, would certainly make themselves so by a low Interest stated by Law, no peo­ple desiring poverty rather than riches.

Secondly, if the lowness of Interest, were not the ef­fects of riches, in Holland they might take as much In­terest as they could get, there being no Law against it, [Page 14] but their riches, plenty of money, and reallity of secu­rity, is the true reason why they can get no more than 3 or 4 per Cent. in all other parts.

Thirdly, It is with money in Holland and all other parts (in point of Interest) as it is in the Exchange with us, the more money there is, and fewer takers, the lower is the Exchange, and when we have more lenders then borrowers Interest will be low without a law for it.

Fourthly, I confess, that the lowness or highness of Interest, in any Country, is a certain mark of its riches, or poverty; but though he would have this to be an argument for him, it is against him, and for me, who maintains, the natural lowness of Interest, to be the ef­fects of riches, for that which he must prove, to make good his assertion, is, that any Country in the world, was ever from a poor & low condition, while Interest was at 6 per Cent. made rich, by bringing it to 4 or 3. per Cent. by a law which I know is not to be done, nor, I be­lieve, to be shewed, that any Country in the world, did ever state Interest by a law under 6 per Cent. which ar­gues that by a common consent of Nations, that sum is accounted indifferent to be imposed betwixt the Bor­rower and Lender, and may spare me any further la­bour of proving the equallity of 6 per Cent. as to a sta­ted Interest; For the Improvement of Land in England, which he instanceth in, if there be any such as to rents (as betwixt rents and value he doth not distinguish, but seems sometimes to mean the one and sometimes the o­ther) it is strange to me, for some of my Relations and Acquaintance do to their grief and sorrow find their lands fallen in rents below what they yeilded fifty or six­ty years agoe; and this is not their case alone, but I fear, setting aside some trading places, the condition of the Nation in general, yet if it were as he supposeth, [Page 15] it were no argument for him, because it might be under­stood to proceed from the effects of an equal Interest, after the falling of it from eight to six per cent. which no man pleads against, but to argue from one extream to another, is a bad argument, as to argue, that because ten per cent. by Law was prejudicial to the Nation, and six per cent. which is moderate, is more beneficial; therefore (with­out any proofs) three per cent. is best of all, is no less then still begging the question; but how confidently soever he affirms the advancement in price of Land in England, to have been great, since the bringing down of Interest, from eight to six per cent. which was in Anno 1651. those that have had Lands to sell, never found any such thing, but on the contrary, lower since. And if we have not experience of the rise of Land, since Interest was fallen from eight to six per cent. which I do as positively af­firm, we have not, as he doth that we have; how out of all proportion is he, in concluding, that no sooner a Law for bringing Interest from six to four per cent. shall be made, then every Nobleman and Gentleman may write for 50, 100. upon all that he hath, reckoning his Land at 30. years purchase at least; but such extravigant passi­on may very well call in question all that he saith, as proceeding from design.

As to the improvement of Ireland, if there be any thing to be bragged of there, as I fear there is not, much, though he brings it in, Page 8. as if it should make for him, when considered, it doth not at all, nei­ther can I understand his meaning, in quoting the im­provement of Ireland, in Page 8. to prove the benefit of a low Interest, and quoting it again in Page 9. to prove the mischief of a high Interest, which are contradictions; but indeed Ireland, being an extraordinary case, in th [...] [Page 16] it is newly freed from the destroying sword, it cannot argue much, either for or against six per cent. and there­fore it had been best let alone.

The instancing in Spain and Scotland, for paying ten and twelve per cent. Interest, is not to the point, be­cause such sums being the abuse and excess of Interest, is no argument against six per cent, which is not so, nor for four or three per cent. which being stated by a Law, would be an extream on the other hand; but he is still as well mistaken in Scotland, where thy pay but eight per cent. as in other things.

In his affirming, that the Merchants Estates, upon the Exchange, were from Anno 1600. to Anno 1635. (which he saith was but ten years after the bringing In­terest from ten to eight per cent.) increased ten for one, (Pag. 7.) he deals not plainly; for though he takes in 35 years for this Increase; he pens it, as if he would have the increase understood, to be in ten years, whereas his ob­servation ought to have been, of the riches of the Mer­chants, in Anno 1625. when the abatement was first made, and what from that time, to Anno 1635. the in­crease was but as to his asserting, a second increase, in Merchants Estates: he there speaks plainly, and af­firms, in the same Page 7. that from the fall of Interest from eight to six per cent. which was in Anno 1651. to the time of his writing his Book, Anno 1667. There was such another Increase as ten for one, wherein he is more out of proportion, then in his doubling of Noble and Gentlemens Estates, so soon as the Law for abate­ment of Interest is made: for I think, I may with more reason affirm, that Anno 1651. there were more Mer­chants upon the Exchange of 10000 l. Estates, then there is now; but I believe, that for two or three years [Page 17] after the fall of Interest from eight to six per cent. our Merchants increased in their Estates; but the cause be­ing taken away, the effect ceased, and after that, they grew worse and worse.

For the Instance he brings from Audley, it doth not concern the question in hand, because it is supposing Interest at ten per cent. which every man abominates: And for the Sugar-Bakers Case, there being so many circumstances in it, as would be too tedious; I will only answer it with another Case, That from Italy, where he saith Interest is at three per cent. we (where Interest is at six per cent.) fetch the Silk that makes our Silk-stock­ings, which we carry back thither, and which we sell cheaper there, then our English Stocking-Weavers, who lives there, can or will afford those [...]hey make there; and this I speak by experience.

Now what hath been said, being sufficient (I sup­pose) to answer and disprove the two first assertions, that the bare bringing down of Interest to four per cent. will alone increase the Trade and riches of the King­dom; and that immediately after passing a Law for it, eve [...]y Noble and Gentleman, may write his Estate dou­ble, I come unto the third assertion, That the matter in England, is prepared for an abatement of Interest, and that it cannot be long obstructed, for that nature will have its course. If the Gentleman had given any reason for this assertion, or explained what he meant by that mat­ter, I should have either allowed or denyed them; but since he hath not, I shall give him my definition of such a preparation, and leave it to him to mend: where there is such a preparation, I judge there must necessarily be more people then the Land, to Till and manage ground as it is in Holland; for except Land be high, Interest cannot [Page 18] be low; and I challenge any man, to shew me where Land is high, and the Country not populous; and though we cannot be said to be very thin of people, we have surely more Land then people, as the Northern and other parts of the Kingdom sheweth.

Secondly, To such a preparation, I conceive, a full and great Trade is necessary; for without plenty of money Interest cannot be low, no more then Land high, without plenty of people; and without Trade, we cannot abound in either money or people.

Thirdly, To such a preparation, liberty of Conscience, together with low Customs, is necessary, to incourage our own people to manage and Till our Land (without being in fear of hard imprisonment) and strangers to come in and trade with us; many more circumstances are needful to such a natural preparation as I. C. speaks of; yet whether we are under these circumstances, I refer to every mans Judgement. And having now said (I presume) enough to his three assertions, because I find him at a loss for the reason of our great Trade at present, to what we had anciently, which I suppose puts him upon mistakes, I will help him the best I can in it, and give him, First, those reasons which I judge was the cause of our want of Trade anciently; Secondly, of the increasing of it since 1545. and 1600. and, Thirdly, the way to increase it yet more.

First, Not long before Anno 1545. all Christendom may be said to have been under the bondage of the Pope, who keeping all Nations in continual contests one against an­other, or imployed to the Holy Land (that in the mean time he might fish in troubled waters; for by such arti­fices he advanced himself) the people of Europe, as they had little Trad [...], so they had little time to mind Trade; [Page 19] and especially the English, who were so ridden by the Pope, that other Nations, in reproach of them, for their slavish servilities to him, called England his Ass.

Secondly, The Priests, Monks, Fryars, Nuns, and other Church-men, who devoured the Land without contri­buting any thing to the good of mankind, were so nume­rous, that they had half, if not three parts of the Land in their hands: One may gather by the Statute of Mort­main, which forbids their injoying any more, and which was made on purpose, lest otherwise they should have got all the Land into their hands; so that whilst such multitudes of that sort of cattel was amongst us, it was impossible for us to come forward, either in Trade or riches, and therefore it was not the want of a stated Inte­rest that hindered our growth in Trade and riches, for we have no cause to judge our Ancestors wisdomes, as to think they were not able to discern whether we were fit for a stated Interest or no; and that if they had found us prepared for it, they would not have given it to us.

Thirdly, Our Nobility and Gentry were then so great, that most of the rest of the people lived idle, by depen­dence upon them, without seeking further; and where any Nation is so constituted, as our was then, they shall never come forward, either in trade or wealth, which in some degree, is (at present) the case of Scotland; and that which makes them come no better forward in the world, and not the want of a lower stated Interest, it being but eight per cent. there; for that alone, without other circumstances, would do th [...]m no good, but make them worse, in draining them of all their money. And these are I suppose reasons enough to shew the cause of our ancient poverty, to what it is now; and that it was not the want of a stated Interest.

As to the cause of our flourishing, since 1545 and continuing in an increase of it ever since that time, the reasons are

First, Our casting off the Church of Rome, with all its trompery and baggage (which hindred our prosperi­ties) with not only dividing their Lands amongst the Nobility and Gentry. &c. but also delivering the people in general, from the yoak of the Church, incouraged them much to Industry.

Secondly, the Statutes in Henry the 7's. time, prohibiting Noblemens Retainers, and making their Lands lyable to debts, and salable, rendered the estates of England more defusive, and forced retainers, who before lived idly by dependance upon their Masters, to betake them­selves to Callings, which did consequently naturally in­crease Trade. And for this I confess my self indebted to that worthy Gentleman I. H. having it from his dis­covery of the ballance of Government.

Thirdly, The discovery and Improvement of the East and West-India Trades, especially our English Plan­tations in the West-Indies hath been the greatest cause of our increase in trade and wealth, since 1600. for where­as, we formerly had our East-Indie commodities from Venice, and most over land, now we have them di­rectly by Sea from the East-Indies, and serves them, be­sides other parts of Europe, with the same commodities we used to have from them, as well as with West-Indie commodities, & that that Trade grew naturally, and not by compulsion, we may observe, from that so soon as we got any freedom from the Church and Nobility, a stated Interest was discovered to be useful, whereas before we were under no capacity, of making use of it, having as may be supposed little trade or money in the land; for [Page 21] An. 1545. when Interest was first limited, Henry the 8 had alienated the Church-lands, and cast off Rome, which made limiting of Interest useful to us, because the wealth of England, then begun to be defusive (and thereby trade to grow) which before it was not; and thus much I think may serve to shew, that the lessening of Interest was not the cause of our increase of trade; but the increase of trade, by other accedents, was the cause of the lessening (which before was unlimited) of Interest; and that it was lessened by stinting it by a law: was because our Ancestors who could not then (Trade being new to them) so well understand that the nature of trade is such, as will of it self bring Interest under: but because bringing Interest in those days to 10 per Cent. certain, from peradventure 12 or 14. Trade did after­wards increase, which without it I beleeve it would have done, the obstructions being then removed, it doth not follow, that to bring it from 6. which is a pro­portionable rate to land) to 4 per Cent. will still increase trade; for if we will imitate Holland, in Interest, we must use those means as they do, which will bring it naturally low, and not to think to do that by compul­sion with us, which with them is done by nature: They have, by the means of Trade, much more people than land; their trade makes plenty of money and people; their plenty of money, with abundance of people, makes land dear, and the dearness of land, with plenty of mo­ney, makes Interest naturally low; when we can say, that we have more people then land, which must be occasioned by Trade, which will bring plenty of mo­ney, then we shall find land rise, and Interest natural­ly low; but to follow Holland in their natural way, by a Compulsive Law, when we have not parity of reason, [Page 22] we shall but hurt our selves, and give them an advan­tage in trade, by having our Trade ingrossed, into a few over-grown rich mens hands, to the excluding young men with smal stocks, and I wish the writing of this Book, hath not been done out of some such design.

The way to increase trade, and thereby money, and consequently bring Interest in a natural way low, is by observing those rules practiced by the Hollanders, and laid down by I. C. in the beginning of his Book, and Suppliment, and here recited, with some others that might be added, but without them it can never be done, naturally, and to do it otherwise will undoe us, by bringing, as is before hinted, all trade into a few hands, and if I. C. did not intend to bring the practice of the Hollanders into England, together with the Law for A­batement of Interest, I wonder why he mentioned the reasons given in the begining of his Book, except he did it to shew that he would go contrary to them; the benefit of Liberty of Conscience is very observable, in the Province of Holland, where giving it freely, they flourish exceed­ingly, while the rigidnes of the Presbyters of Zeoland, and Freezeland their Neighbours, and who have I think equal conveniency for Trade with them, are mightily kept back by their narrowness in it. And now I shall say no more then recommend unto observation the man­ner of I. C. writing: As

First, in his giving the reasons which makes Interest naturally in Holland at three per cent. and yet concluding (without any reason shewn) that a law to state interest at four or three per cent. will do the same with us, as the reasons he instanceth in doth naturally with them.

Secondly, That he begs the question (without making any thing good) of all his three assertions, As that a sta­ted [Page 23] low Interest is the cause of riches, bringing only for proof, That in rich Countries Interest is low, which proves no more, then, that a low Interest is the effect of riches, wherein we had the example in 1649, 1650, 1651. when the Interest by Law being then at eight per cent. good security could have it at five. That as soon as a Law is made to bring Interest to four per cent. he bare­ly affirms, without proof, That Land will be of double value; and this he doth against the experience of the last fall of Interest, from eight to six per cent. which pro­duced no rise at all, as the sellers of Land can witness: And that the matter of England, which he affirms is pre­pared for an abatement of Interest, he makes no attempt to prove.

Thirdly, That he argues from one extream to another, making Instances against ten per cent. to serve for bring­ing it to four and three per cent. without giving any rea­sons why six per cent. is not an indifferent rate for Law to take notice of, and makes use of an observation of Audleys, which is a false calculation.

Fourthly, That his calculations concerning Mer­chants Estates upon the Exchange, is so far out of all proportion, that whereas he saith, they are increased ten for one since that last fall of Interest from eight to six per cent. those that knows the Exchange best do believe they are not by much so rich now as they were in 165 [...]. when Interest was at eight per cent. a vash difference be­twixt ten for one, and less then nothing.

Fifthly, That he miserable mistakes the ground of our ancient poverty in putting, it upon the want of a low stated Interest, when it proceeded wholly from the slavery the people were in those dayes under to the No­bility, but principally to the Church.

Sixthly, When he pretends to make inquiry whether a low in­terest be truly the cause or effect of riches; he concludes, without giving one syllable of reason for it, that it is the cause of the pro­sperity and riches of any Nation; and that it may be taken no­tice of, puts it in great letters, Page 1.

Seventhly, He saith it hath always been the policy of the peo­ple of Holland to keep down Interest three or four per cent. under their Neighbours, as if they did it by Law (for otherwise nature, and not policy doth it) whereas it is utterly untrue, that ever they made any Law to that end.

Eighthly, Though his Instance in the East-Indy Companies ta­king money at four per cent. be true, yet it proceeds from their generosity in paying linimen their money at any time upon a days warning, which conveniency to monied men, that lyeth in wait for good bargains, deserves a low Interest, the Company being therein little less then noble Cash keepers to monied men, giving them four per cent. more then they could make of their money, if it lay in their own Iron-chests: and though it be true, that the Company have money at four per cent. it stands not with reason that from this example men should be forced by a Law to lend money at the same rate, or not at all, where there is not a parity of reason.

Ninthly, The Treatise he annexeth unto his, is as grosly mista­ken as himself, in saying, that most of the Countries with whom we hold Commerce, doth not tollerate above six per cent. whereas I know no great trading Cities that doth limit Interest at all: Hambourge and Dantzick, which are for trade next to London and Amsterdam, doth not; and I. C. confesseth, that in France Inte­rest is at seven per cent. and yet instanceth that Country for Riches.

Tenthly, Whereas he insinuateth, that the cause of Scotlands poverty proceeds from Interest, being there at ten or twelve per cent. I am informed, that whereas formerly Interest was by law a six per cent. they have of late years judged it for their advan­tage to raise it by Law to eight per cent.

Eleventhly and lastly, Whilst he saith, that the matter of Eng­land is so naturally prepared for an abatement of Interest, that it cannot be long obstructed, he propounds a Law to anticipate na­ture, which is against reason. And thus hoping that we shall not be led to our own distruction, by a confident imposing mistakes upon us, I have done.