YOVR request, Maister D. Gager, that I should forbeare farther reply in writing, and by word of mouth in priuate cōference informe you, if you haue greatlie erred in any part of your answer; brought into my minde Diog. Laer▪ in Diogene. the Philosophers censuring and checking of such as offered sacrifice for health, and at their very sacrifizing did ban­ket riotouslie against health. For that which I wrote concerning things, the stage-playes, you draw vnto the persons, who play­ed on the stage at Christchurch, as if I went about to make thē and your house most vilanouslie infamous: and partlie by con­cealing, partly by perverting the drift & substance of my spee­ches, you seeke to smoother vp and suppresse the trueth. Which being done in writing by you with care and diligence, not to be imparted vnto me alone, but to others also, as your selfe doe signifie: if I should note the fault thereof by worde of mouth, my plaister would be lesse a great deale then the wound, and therefore neuer reach to heale it: for woordes haue wings, and flie away, mens writings doe remaine. But as farre as possiblie I may without neglect of the duetie I owe to GOD and to his Church, I yeelde to your request: that is, I will endeuour to make plaine vnto you the iniuries and wrongs that your aun­swer doth me, as brieflie as the necessarie clearing of the truth, and scattering of the mistes whereby you goe about to darken it, will permit.

The point that is in question betweene vs touching stage­playes, [Page 30] was generallie mooued: to weet, whether such as play them doe offende, or such as reprooue the playing of them. You vndertooke to shewe that the reproouers are faultie: I, that the Players. And least the dissension of opinions heerein should breed exulceration of mindes betwene vs, if that, which either of vs said touching the matter, should be taken odiously as meant against the persons whom it might concerne: you, with protestation of your good will to mee-ward, desired mee not to thinke that you meant to note me by the name of Mo­mus; I prayed you the like with like protestation in respect of your players; & that with greater reason why you should haue yeelded to it in my opinion, sith neither one of their names, Phemius for example sake, doeth signifie a lewd player, as Mo­mus doeth an vniust reproouer; neither did I know who played that part and others, as you knew my mislike of playes. Now, I condescended to your desire most gladlie: your selfe acknow­ledge it, and hartilie thanke me for it. I would to God I might haue likewise thanked you: whereof you haue giuen me so li­tle cause, so great cause to the contrarie, that I must needes cō ­plaine you haue forgotten the lesson which a Alexander Seuerus, apud Lampridium. heathen Empe­rour had learned of Iewes or Christians, and marueilouslie lo­ued it, Quod tibi fieri non vis, alteri ne feceris. For whereas you had said that stage-players were not counted infamous by the civill lawe, but onely such as played for game; and I, to refute this, declared that the Romans, whose iudgement and custome doeth best interpret their owne law, counted Nero infamous for playing, though freelie; which, least you perhaps through ambiguitie of a The worde cantavit, used by Iuvenal. sat. 8. worde, should except against, that it was not stage-playing of Mens and Womens partes, I opened it by the examples of your Hippodamia, Eurymachus, and Phemius: you replie hereon, that this is my arguing; Many noble men, and Nero him selfe were infamous for playing, though freelie, mens and womens partes, and specially Nero for singing like a fidler on the stage; Ergo, scholers and the students of Christ-church are to be noted with a marke of infamie, for playing, though gratis, such partes as they did in Ulysse reduce; and namely the Master of our Choristers for playing Phemius; notwithstanding for his [Page 31] honestie, modestie, and good voice, he is as worthie to be deliuered from infamie, as Phemius him selfe is fained to bee saved from death, for his excellent skill in Musicke, to say nothing of the rest. And not content to wrest mine argument from my drift, and racke it to my sentence from the Ciuill lawe, to Christ-church players from the Roman, you shutt vp your tale with this mo­rall: I dare not denie this argument, because it is yours; I referre it to the charitable iudgement of my betters. Act. 25. [...]2. Hast thou appea­led to Caesar? to Caesar shalt thou goe, quoth Fest [...]s, Euen so am I contented, good Syr, that our betters doe iudge of mine ar­gument, and your charitable vsage of it. To the which intent I beseech you hartilie, that, with the next play you publish, you will set foorth my letters, and your answere to them. In the meane season, I thinke, that when omitting the force of mine argument against your distinction of playing for gaine, & free­lie, you drew in the mention of the Maister of your Choristers, his honestie, his modestie, his good voice, his Musicke, and of the rest of the Scholers & students of Christ-church: your pur­pose was to shewe a peece of that art, that Servius Galba did. Who, being endited of a Valer. Max. lib. 9. cap. 6. Sueto. in Gal. cap. 3. Oros. lib 4. cap. 21 great offence, whereof he could not cleere him selfe, and therefore Cic in Bruto Livi. lib. 49. epitome Va­ler. Max. lib. 8. cap. 1. slipping from it, cōmended to the iudges both his owne children, and the child of his kins­man, a most woorthie citizen, that being lately dead, had left him gardian to his childe: so to save him selfe by the peoples mercie and commiseration of the boyes, which he could not haue done by the desert of the cause and his owne innocencie. For if the good qualities of the Maister of your Choristers, or of your Scholers and Students, doe prooue that the Romans coū ­ted it no infamie for such to be stage-players, howe soeuer they counted it for Nero: then Orat. pro P. Quintio. Tullie spake absurdly, when he said that Roscius both for his skill in playing seemed alone worthie to come vpon the stage, and for his Vir eiusmo­di est. The sense of whi­che words he openeth in his oration pro Q. Ros­cio comoedo, saying thus of Roscius: Quem popu­lus Romanus meliorem vi­rū quàm Hi­strionem esse arbitratur; qui ita dignissi­mus est scena propter a [...]i. [...]cium, ut dignissimus sit curia propter abstinedam vertue and honestie, seemed alone worthie not to come vpon it. And how can the charitable iudgement of your betters; nay, howe can your owne, charge me as offending for setting downe that of the Romans, which by consequent toucheth the Maister of your Choristers credit, and others of Christchurch: where your self acknowledge, that [Page 32] your invectiue against Momus, doeth consequently fal on me, on the Preacher, on whosoever else reproove playes, and yet you may haue written it without offence, you trust?

But in this matter your fault is the lesse, because you had some colour thereof by mine exemplifying in three of your players: nor did the Romans alwayes count them so infamous but that the best of them were sometime well esteemed of, as Macrob. Sa­turn. lib. 3. cap. 14. Tullies great acquaintance with Roscius and Aesopus argu­eth. In the next you doe me so much the greater iniurie, by how much both the turpitude and vilanie is greater wherwith you beare your Students in hande that I charge them: and I was farder off from giuing cause to be so dealt with, hauing re­frained purposelie from naming any of yours in opening of the point. For being to proove that the prohibition of men to put on womens raiment (in Deuteronomie) belongeth to the mo­rall law, and therevpon declaring how it is referred by learned Divines, to the commaundement, Thou shalt not commit adul­terie: I said that they had reason to referre it so, because, among the kindes of adulterous lewdenes, mens naturall corruption and vitiousnes is prone to monstrous sinne against nature, as the Scripture witnesseth in Cananites, Iewes, Corinthians, other in other nations, one with speciall caution Nimium est quod intelligitur; and the putting of womens attire vpon men, may kindle great sparkles of lust thervnto in vncleane affections, as Nero shewed in Sporus, Heliogabalus in him self; yea certaine, who grew not to such excesse of impudencie, yet arguing the same in causing their boyes to weare long heare like women. This, in your examining the sense of Moses wordes, where­vnto I vsed it, you passe ouer wholly; without mention of the iudgement of the learned Diuines, or of my reason giuen for it. But in the point following, where I handled other inconueni­ences and discommodities of playes, with speciall applyinge thereof vnto yours: We pray you Syr (say you) to make a great difference betweene vs and Nero with his Sporus, or Heliogaba­lus with him selfe, or the Cananites, Iewes, Corinthians, or them that cause their Pages to weare long heare like women, or any such dogges: we hartilie abhorre them. You say out of Quintili­an, [Page 33] Nimium est quod intelligitur: and I may say, Nimium est quod dicitur. Wee thanke God, our youth doe not practise such things, they thinke not of thē, they know them not: neither cā any mā liuing the rather for our playes charge any one of vs with the least suspicion of any such abomination. I haue bene often moo­ved by our playes to laughter, and sometime to teares: but I can not accuse either my selfe, or any other, of any such beastlie thought stirred vp by them. And therefore we should most vn­charitablie be wronged, if our putting on of Womanly rayment, should either directlie or indirectlie be referred to the commande­ment, Thou shalt not commit adulterie. All these are your owne wordes. In which that you may see, what your dealing is, be­holde a paterne of it. There was a certaine Preacher, who cate­chizing his hearers in the principles of faith, and deliuering to them Mat. 5. [...]. Christes exposition of the law, Thou shalt not committ adulterie; tolde them that the verie looking vppon women, whereby men are occasioned to thinke or lust vnchastlie, is a breach thereof. He prooved it by the examples of Gen. 39. 7. Putiphars wife, who cast her eyes on Ioseph, and fell in love with him; of Iob. 31. 1. Iob, who therefore made a couenant with his eyes, least hee should thinke vpon a maide; of 2. Sam. 11. [...] Dauid, who looking on Bethsa­be from his house toppe, did lust incontinentlie after her. And be­cause the parties, whom he taught, were schollers, well read in forein writers, he added howe the learned Heathens had decla­red that Plato in Cra tylo. Xeno­phon de dict. & fact. Socr. lib. 1. love doeth enter in by the eyes; Theo. [...]. 2. Musaeus in Her. & Lean. Virg. ecl. 8. faire persons seene, haue made men madd; and in them also is that verified, Virg. Geor. lib. 3. Urit (que) videndo Foemina; as [...]. lib. 5. Xenophon recordeth Cyrus to haue no­ted; and Lib. 3. eleg. 19. Propertius found by triall in him selfe. Now, among the companie to which the Preacher spake, one, not evill min­ded, yet loving good felowship, and a more remisse, or welnigh loose kinde of living, fearing least by the credit & force of this doctrine, certaine of his friendes whom he had made acquain­ted with beautifull wiues, or handsome maides, should growe into suspition of wantonnes and lightnes, rose vp and said vnto the Preacher; We pray you, Syr, to make a great difference bet­weene vs, and them whom Cyrus speaketh of, or Propertius him selfe; or Putiphras Wife, Iob, Dauid, or such as let their eyes bee [Page 34] porters vnto loue, and dote by seeing faire persoons: wee hartilie mislike them. You say out of Uirgill, Urit (que) videndo Foemina; and I may say, Urit (que) loquendo Masculus. We thanke God, our youth doe not practise such thinges, they thinke not of them, they know them not: neither can anie man liuing, the rather for our looking on handsome maides, or beautifull Wiues, charge any one of vs with the least suspicion of any such vncleannes. I haue bene delited often with their sight, and sometime mooved to pitie: but I can not accuse either my selfe, or any other of any such wicked thought stirred vp thereby. And therefore we should most vn­charitably be wronged, if the casting of our eyes on wives, or on maides, should either directlie or indirectlie be referred to the cō ­maundement, Thou shalt not commit adulterie. What thinke you of this man, Maister D. Gager? Did hee not the Preacher wrong? Certainlie, if you haue the spirit wherwith 2. Sam. 12. 5 David an­swered Nathans parable, you will confesse, he did. And what ensueth, you see: I neede not adde, You are the man. But this I must adde, that the wrong you doe me is so much more palpa­ble, then was this carpers of the Preacher, because I saide, that the putting of Womens attire vpon men, may kindle sparkes of lust in vncleane affections: I saide not, in all mens affections, but in some; not in sanctified, but in vncleane. What? And doe you graunt, that you, and your youth, haue vncleane affecti­ons, to the intent you may blame my speech? If not, why tell you me, that the putting of womanlie raiment vpon men, hath not stirred any such beastlie thought in any of you; whē I spake expreslie of vncleane affections? Besides, can you accuse your selfe, or anie other, of anie wanton thought stirred vp in you by looking on a beautifull Woman? If you can; then ought you beware of beautifull boyes transformed into womē by putting on their raiment, their feature, lookes and facions. For men may be ravished with loue of stones, of dead stuffe, framed by cunning grauers to beautifull womens likenes; as, in Ovid. Meta­morp. lib. 10 Poets fa­bles appeareth by Pygmalion, by Plin. hist. na. lib. [...]. ca. 38. & li. 36. ca. 5 Venus Gnidia in stories: and Terent. Eun. act. 3. scen. 2. Chaerea, araied like an Eunuch onely, did moove the beastlie lust of him who was lasciviouslie giuen in the Comedie. If you can not: then doe you both me, your selfe and others, iniurie in [Page 35] cōcluding, that therefore you should most vncharitably be wron­ged, if your putting on of Womanly raiment, should either direct­lie or indirectlie be referred to the commaundement, Thou shalt not cōmit adulterie. For my speech was generall, that the clad­ding of youthes in such attire is an occasion of drawing & pro­voking corruptlie minded men to most heinous wickednes, & therefore should be wiselie cutt off by the faithfull: as if, in a Sermon to the vniversitie, expounding that of Iob, Iob. 31. 1. I made a covenant with mine eyes, I should tell the Students, that though he name a maide, wee must extende the lesson farder; by Sophoc. Cic. de offi. lib. 1. Valer. Max. lib. 4. cap. 3. the mans example, whom a worthie governour, in Praetori non solùm manus à pecuuiae lu­cro, sed etiam oculos à libi­dinoso aspe­ctu continen­tes esse debe­re. Val. Max. other wordes to like effect, admonished of making a covenant with his eyes, for saying; O puerum pulchrum Pericle. Wherevppon if anie should tell his acquaintance of this, or that College, Tutour, or other, accustomed to cast his eyes on such children as God had adorned with comelines of body, that I went about to make them suspected of most horrible lewdenes, he should doe both them and me notorious iniurie. Albeit, as our Sauiour, saying to his Disciples, Mar. 4. 24. Take heede what you heare, did purpose to stirre them vp to marke diligentlie that which he delivered, & faithfullie to performe it; yet cōdemned them not as retchlesse or vnfruitfull hearers of his worde: so I would acknowledge that in saying likewise, Take heede what you see, my meaning were to stirre vp both Tutours, and all other, to carie them sel­ues chastlie, euen in their lookes also, least death come in by their windowes, though I meane no more to make them sus­pected by this admonition, then I doe my selfe. Which if you, who touch me so bitterlie, and often, for doeing you or yours vncharitable wrong, had charitably marked: I should haue lesse cause of wishing you to play the [...]. Gre­gor. Nazian. apolog. fugae suae. Physician better, & first to heale your selfe.

This I say not onelie of my generall speeches sett vpon the racke to make me odious to your Studentes: but of the parti­cular too, that may be thought to concerne them specially. As namelie that I mentioned Eurymachus kissing of Melantho: a thing which I gathered to haue bin done by her own words: 5 Furtiva nul­lus oscula Eu­rymachus da­bit. Act. 5. sith they were both intēded to be alone secretlie, when he had [Page 36] Pulcherrima Melātho, quid effari q [...]eam? Nemo severā juuenibus le­gem ferat, &c Act. 3. fowle vnmodest lascivious talke with her; and the musicke & daunsing, Ad strepitū lyrae Non lae­ta salies. Act. 5. whereof she speakes withal, was represented on the stage. But I named them onelie for example sake; my drift be­ing generall against such playes as expresse such actions: whe­ther sett foorth presentlie by you; as your Rivales, in which some of the wooers perhaps kissed Phoedra; or heretofore, as Plauti cur­culio. that of Plautus, in which Act. 1. Phaedromus kissed Planesium without perhaps. Wherefore sith you defende your former playes as well as these, and in that respect commende by name Plautus, as you haue great reason, comparing any Comedie of his with your Rivales: what aymed you at in saying, that, for the daunger of kissing beautiful boyes you know not howe the sus­picion should reach vnto you, because it is vntrue that Euryma­chus kissed Melantho; vnlesse your meaning were to practise that malice (so Aristot. li. 1. rhet. cap. 1. Vives de tra­dend. disci­ [...]plin. lib. 4. learned men doo iustlie terme it) of rhetorike, I meane, by restraining my generall intent vnto your present players, to draw me into their hatred? Else, when you enquired of the parties them selves, whether any such action were used by them, and they (you say) denyed it constantly: why did you not enquire also of Plautus, whether it were vsed by Phaedromus, & Planesiū, and of the ancients of your house, whether Phoedro­mus and Planesium came euer on your stage? Sure you should haue takē this course by the equitie of that which semeth rea­sonable to you in your own cause. For, spying by mine answer, that your example of Achilles wearing womans raiment, did not serue your turne: you replie, that we may imagine such a one as will serue it, with change of a circumstance. And this in your defense must goe for sufficient. But the case is altered, when it toucheth me: yea, although my purpose may be proo­ved by true, not by imagined, examples. So indulgent com­monly are men vnto them selues: so rigorous vnto others.

Howbeit, I should not complaine of this rigour, but for the taile of it, and the sting of breeding euill will among brethren, which doeth lurke therein. The venome and poyson whereof goeth about to spred it selfe abroad through more partes of your body, then Phemius, Eurymachus, & the players of wo­men; by meanes that you likewise instill the same humour, at [Page 37] least seeke to instill it as much as in you lieth, into the rest of all your players, their teachers and instructors, and in conclusion your whole house. For whereas the third branch of our rea­sons, set downe by you in Momus his name against playes, had avouched not onelie their time to be misspent who were em­ployed therein, but some of their persons, their mindes, corrup­ted also; and I, to shewe how cunninglie you, encountring this proposed the losse of time alone and not of men, did declare that Cyprian writing of a stage-player, who made boyes effemi­nate by instructing them howe to play the women, and to ex­presse and counterfeit vnhonest wanton gestures, saith, he was a maister not of teaching but spilling children; and thereof did inferre, that the losse of time should not haue bene obiected so much against your playes, seeing some of the players (if they were like the youthes whom Cyprian speaketh of) might re­plie as Phaedria, when Parmeno did tell him that his gift be­stowed on Thais would be lost, Ego quoque unà pereo, quod mi­hi est carius; ne istuc tam iniquo patiare animo: beholde, with how charitable applying of my wordes you come in thus vpon me, The saying of Saint Cyprian against a stage-player, or of Phaedria of him selfe to Parmeno, can not be iustlie used against vs. For he should doe vs great contumelie, that should thinke, or say, that either we are maisters not of teaching, but spilling chil­dren; or that both time and our young men were cast away alto­gether by those exercises. And to make a deeper impression in your young men that I doe them this contumelie, with an o­ther also brought for proofe hereof: you goe forward thus: But it is no marveile that you imply so ill a coceite of them, if you doubt that, as I answered Momus, our actors can shew greater fruit of their time well spent, then any that is bredde vp by Mo­ [...]usses discipline can. For you pray God that they may: as doub­ting it is not so. Wherein, first and formost, if your conscience tell you, that your selfe (for whom else you associate to you by we are maisters, I know not) are touched in Saint Cyprians re­proofe of the stage-player: I can no way helpe it, saue with that of Scripture, 1 Ioh. 3. 2 [...] If your heart condemne you, God is greater then your heart, and knoweth all thinges. But whether I might not [Page 38] alleadge Saint Cyprians wordes, to shewe that somewhat more then time is cast away and spilt by such stage-playes as make boyes effeminate: let our betters iudge. Who, I trust, will not condemne the poore swalowes for chattering and vsing their voice, agreeably to nature, because Plutarch. de lenta numi­nis vindicta. Bessus surmised they cri­ed against him that he had killed his father. Next, in that you charge me with insinuating of your young men, that both time and them selues are cast away altogether by those exercises, and adde, it is no marveile that I imply so ill a conceyte of them: truelie, it is marveile, that you, professing so much good will to mee as you doe, should in so fewe wordes vse so manie trickes of calumniation to breed a misliking of me in your yong men. One, by making me to speake of them at large, and indefinit­lie: whereas I noted onelie such as played the Women, and of them such onelie, as were taught to counterfeit vnhonest wan­ton gestures, that is, as played vnchast women. An other, by adioyning the particle Cast away altogether. Altogether, as if I had iudged them dead, dead, past all recouerie: whereas the Spilling, in [...] S. Cyprians wordes; & Pereo, in Phaedrias, Ego quoque unà pereo. termes I used im­ported that they were in spilling, not spilt, much lesse spilt alto­gether, but like Reuel. 3. 2. the thinges in Sardis which were redy to dye. A third, by suppressing the meanes of their spilling, to weet, the making of them effeminate, which I specified; and by setting downe a woord of more honest and common signification in steed thereof, to weet, By those ex­ercises. exercises: as who say that peremptorie sentence had bene giuen of all, euen them who played mens partes, yea the best mens; where I censured onelie the filth of playing wanton queanes so with Cyprian. A fourth, by rehear­sing it as absolutelie pronounced: where I with a If they were like y ^e youths whom Cypri­an speaketh of. cōdition re­straining the sentence, did manifestlie shewe that I affirmed it not, except they tooke like harme with those whom Cyprian speaketh of; and therefore drew my speach from your speciall players, to the generall question. A fifth, by making proofe thereof, as good and sound, as the thing proved; in saying, It is no marveile that I imply so ill a conceit of them, if I doubt that your actors can shew greater fruit of their time well spent then a­nie that is bredde vp by Momusses discipline can: and yeelding this reason to perswade the young men that I doubt it is not so, [Page 39] because I pray God that they may. Which reason if it holde: then our Oxford Preachers haue a badd opinion of the Uice­chancelour, the Doctours, the Proctors, the Heades of houses: for they are wont to pray that we may be good; and therefore by your inference they doubt we are not so. And will not your Christ. church Preachers be discredited hereby with your Stu­dentes, as much as I am: seeing they pray commōlie as well for the Studentes, as for the Deane and Prebendaries? Question­lesse your selfe would thinke, hee did you iniurie who should say you beleeue not an article of your faith, the forgiuenesse of sinnes. Yet you are accustomed to pray, Luke 11. 4. Forgiue vs our sinnes, when notwithstanding Mat. 14. 3 [...] Iam. 1. 6. hee that doubteth, faileth in beleefe. And for mine owne part, if to one cōmending the French most Christian King, that he can looke wiselie inough to his owne safetie against both open force, & secret fraude of the Leaguers, I should aunswere (in like sorte as I did to you) I pray God hee may; sure he shall the better if hee neuer trust them, nor anie of that brood of the whore of Babylon: I would be vnderstoode, both hartilie to wish, and reasonablie to hope, that hee shall meetelie well be able to doe it; although the more able, if hee vse this caution. Or, if some presumptions moved you to dowt whether I meant thus, or worse: you should haue remembred the L. 56. l. 19 [...]. § fin. D. de regulis juris. rules of your law for Sēper in du­biis benigni­ora praeferē ­da sunt: et, In re dubia be­nigniorē in­terpretationē sequi, nō mi­nus iustius est quàm tutius. gentle construying of things doubt­full. But suppose that I had even denied also, not onely doub­ted, that your actors can shewe greater fruit of their time well spent then anie that is bredde vp by Momusses discipline can: is it therfore likelie that I imply so ill a conceit of them as that they are altogether cast away? Yea, you say. And why? Because they could doe little, if they could not doe so much, and a great deale more, and better, when soever they shall be tryed. For what is the discipline of Momus, but the schoole of carping, nipping, depra­ving, and reprehending of everie good thing? Wherevpon you adde, to amplifie the straunge iniquitie of my dealing, that of all other things you thought I would not, or could not haue taken anie exception to that speech of yours. In deed if I had taken the discipline of Momus in that sense you give it; your so ill colle­ction of my so ill conceit should haue some probabilitie. But I [Page 40] had declared that by the name of Momus you noted all re­proovers of playes. And howsoever that be, wherof more here­after: dowtlesse I meant scholers trained vp by such in godli­nesse and good learning, when I prayed that your actors might shew greater fruit of their time well spent, then any that is bredde vp by Momusses discipline can. Which is plaine and evident by the words following, in that I affirmed, that this which you terme the discipline of Momus, is not his but Cyprians, or rather the holy Ghosts. For God forbid that you should proceede from evill to worse in such excesse of sclandering, as to tell your actors, that I say, the discipline of the holy Ghost is the schoole of carping, nipping, depraving, & reprehending of every good thing. Now, though my cōceit of them be so good, that I am perswa­ded, or rather knowe in part, they can shew great fruit of their time well spent, and haue in triall done it: yet I know withall some of so great towardnes brought vp by the other, that, if all your actors think they can shew greater fruit thē any of these, they will make mee thinke their good conceit of themselves is worse thē mine ill. And see of how different opinions you and I are about this matter. I know sundry scholers of rare expectatiō and hope in other Colleges, for whom my prayer is they may shew as great fruit of their time well spent as some of these can: and yet in my iudgement I haue no ill conceit of them. You, vnlesse I thinke that your Christ-church actors can shew much greater fruit, doe iudge, and giue sentence, that my conceit of them is ill: so ill, beyond all huy and cry, that it is a token I imply in couert speech (expounded charitably) that they are cast away, yea, cast away altogether, and irrecoverably lost.

Lesser is the wrong, yet a wrong also, that of your actors likewise you say, they are condemned by me to hatefull infamie, a thing to all honest mindes more intollerable then death it selfe: and farther, that your house, your selfe, and many honest towardly young men, your frendes, whom for good causes you hartely loue, are charged with open infamie. It may be, the circumstance no­ted herewithall, in that you adde it greeveth you and them not a litle, that they should in private, but much more in publike, bee charged with such infamie: hath reference to the Sermon ra­ther [Page 41] which was preached in the publike audience of the vni­versitie, then to letters written in private vnto you. Howbeit, whethersoeuer of vs it toucheth more, your complaint is some­what partiall to your selfe: who take in euill parte, that wee by word or writing should teach or mainteine ought wherof there may grow infamie by consequent to you; yet would haue vs take it well and patientlie, that you haue set foorth and publi­shed that in print, whereof there may grow infamie by conse­quent to vs. But the wrong I meant you doe mee in those clauses of your accusation, concerneth both the matter of crime, and the persons: the matter, for aggravating the qualitie of the note of infamie, whiche they are charged with, by ter­ming it hatefull, open, more intollerable to all honest mindes then death it selfe: the persons, for extending it from a few members to the whole bodie, from the players to your house. Concer­ning the later (to begin with it) beside that you say that in aun­swering my writing you defende your house, not onelie the par­ticular players, from infamie: you adde that they are charged therewith to the generall reproch of your house, if so hard a cen­sure should be by men of note enforced and perswaded. And why should you more interpret our action to the generall reproche of your house, because wee reproved that by worde or writing which some of Christchurch had practised: then wee interpret yours to the generall reproche of our house, because you de­fended that by printed treatise, which some of Queenes college had reprooved? If the reason bee, for that wee are men of note who worke the discrediting of you: they are men of note too, whose verses you hauing prefixed before your book, doe coun­tenance your disgrace of vs. Nether doe I see what reason else you bring, or can, but that wee shall meete you in the same (speake of consent, or what you list) to wring out of the speciall reproche of your players the generall of your house. As for the former concerning the infamie, the qualitie whereof not con­tent to amplifie with termes that may bee common to all infa­mie in a sort, you name it more intollerable to all honest mindes then death it selfe: whether doe you meane the infamie they are charged with by the Civil law, in the first reason; or that [Page 42] which lighteth on them by the lawe of God, in the reasons fo­lowing? If by the civill law: then belike a chast and honestlie minded woman, who having lost her husband doeth marrie within twelue moneth after his decease, had rather shee were dead: and her father likewise, who placeth her so in mariage, had rather he were dead with her. For both these are noted with infamie by the L. 1. D. de his qui notā ­tur infam ia. L. 1. & 2. c. de secundis n [...]ptiis. civill law: and that in such degree, as may be more intollerable and greevous vnto them, for ought that I saide, then vnto your players. If by the law of God: doe you not know that [...]. infamie being opposit to [...] 2. Cor. 6. 8. good fame, and no­thing being counted of [...] good fame, [...] Phil. 4. 8. praiseworthy, but that which is honest, iust, pure, vertuous; every fault hath infamie, annexed therevnto; not everie fault a litle degree and height of infamie, but everie fault infamie? Doe you not thinke that all your players haue some fault: and account the shame thereof to bee more tollerable a great deale, then death? Doe you not confesse (though tempering it with saying it may be so perhaps) that they haue in their playing picked out as it were quailes eyes of a wantonnes, and offended in some small matter? What nee­ded then your tragicall exaggeration of hatefull open infamie, more intollerable to all honest mindes then death it selfe: when al that I enforced against them was but infamie? whom sought you to make hatefull by that patheticall speech, tending to compassion of Ulysses in shew, to somewhat else in deede: Unhappy Ulysses, to whom as it was fatall ever to be in trouble in his life, so is he more hardly dealt withall after his death, that his person may not honestly bee resembled without note of infamie to the actor? Howe skilfull an inveigling is this of your players, to thinke themselves defamed most odiouslie for euer, when he who played Ulysses parte, one of the best, and therefore least of all touched with that note, is said to bee so touched with it, that all the troubles of Ulysses are nothing to his shame? Nay, the shame inflicted on him who played Ulysses, is such a vexa­tion to Ulysses himselfe, that hee is more hardly dealt withall herein (poore soule) after his death, then while in his life time Homer. O­dyss. lib. 9. his sweete wine was drunke, his men were eaten vp, two at a meale, by Polyphemus; himself escaped hardlie through Poly­phemus [Page 43] rammes helpe out of his clouches, not without great feare, I know, when Polyphemus talked with the ramme; and beside the danger to bee soonke and drowned by the top of a mountaine that Polyphemus hurled at him, Lib. 12. hee was tossed in the sea, vpon broken peeces of his shippe, beeing wracked, ten nights and nine dayes, saue one wherin he stucke fast to a wild figtree growing in Charybdis; whereof, and of a great deale more Lib. 5. such woe, he tasted, by Lib. 10. his mens vnhappie letting out of the windes, which Aeolus had giuen him bound vppe in a leathren bagge or satchell.

To make an end of this point, I am to request your Students and your house; because you constraine me (that I may vse the Psal. 69. 4. Prophets phrase) to restore that which I tooke not away, that they wil consider how the note of infamie, which I did enforce, I enforced it against the partes played by Histrio, not against the Christ church parties who played them; against Roscius & Aesopus, not against the Maister of your Choristers; I meane against players, not against those players: as Orat. in Pis. Tullie saith of Piso, that when the Aedilis es factus. Piso est à po­pulo Rom. factus, non iste Piso. Romans gaue him the office of the Ae­dileship, they gaue it to Piso, not to this Piso; meaning that in committing such place of honour to him they respected the dignitie of his name and stocke, not the qualities of his person. For as this Piso, the particular man, was lewde, base, dishono­rable; yet Piso, the kinred it selfe, whereof hee came, was ho­norable and renowmed: semblablie may players, the generall that I spake of, bee esteemed infamous; and yet the same infa­mie, as small as it is in comparison of the capitall markes you fasten on it, be lesse or none at all in the speciall persons of your house, of those players. Which, if it be lawfull for me to com­pare lesser things with greater (as I, by the example of Mat. 13. 3. Mar. 12. 1. Luke 14. 21. and so forth in the Evan­gelistes com­monlie. our Sa­uiours parables alwayes thought I might, & neuer heard them called incomparable comparisons till you controlled mee with this taunt and the like for vsing them) I shall make plaine vnto you by the cleere euidence & light of both those laws, whence they are charged. For Rom. 1. 26. [...]. wicked persons are infamous; 1 Pet. 4. 3. idola­ters are wicked; they, that offer incense, as 1 Cor. 10. 20 L. 7. c de pa­ganis & sa­crificiis. Paynims did, are idolaters. Theodoret. hist ecles li. 3. cap. 15 & 16. Zozom. lib. 5. cap. 16 Certaine Christian souldiers, not knowing what [Page 44] such offering of incense did import, were by the conveyance of Iulian the apostata brought to offer it. Who, when they were afterward informed, what they had done, returned backe to Iulian, professing and protesting them selues to be Christians, persisting in the faith, and praying they might die for it. Were these infamous for that fact? No: because their hande did of­fend through ignorance (saith the Theodor & Zozomen in the places quoted. Ca [...]iodor. in the Triparti. lib. 6 ca. 30. Nicephorus lib. 10. ca. 23 and others after them. Ecclesiasticall historie) their minde was pure and guiltlesse. And although their ignorance of Luk. 12. 48 L. 9. D de iu ris & facti ig­norantia. L. 12. c. eod. the law was faultie, the mother of their errour: yet L. 9. D. de iur. & fact. ig­nor. §. Si fili­us familias. l. 1. ca. eod. mans con­stitutions bearing with souldiers that way, and 1 Tim. 1. 13 God forgi­ving his servants greater ouersights, who dare condemne them for their fall? Those monsters of nature, which Rom. 1. 27. burning in their lust one toward an other, men with men worke filthines, are as infamous, as Gen. 18. 20. Sodome: not the doers onelie, but the 1 Cor. 6. 9. sufferers also.

A Sleidā li. 19. yong Italian Gentleman, named Cosmus Cherius, had that horrible villanie wrought through force vpon him by Petrus Aloisius Pope Paul the thirds sonne. Was he infamous for his suffering? No more then Livi. lib. 1. Lucretia for violence done by Tar­quin, how soeuer he died for sorowe and shame of it: the law of Deut. 22. 25 God and L. 1. D. de postulando §. removet. man both will acquitt him. In a woord, Rom. 1. 29. all impi­ous and vnhonest wretches, namelie the vnrighteous, fornica­tours, adulterous, theeves, covetous, drunkardes, raylers, ex­tortioners, are infamous. The 1 Cor. 6. 11 Corinthians had bene such, but they repented. Were they infamous for their vices? A Seneca in A­gamen. natural man might sticke hereat in Quem poe­nitet peccasse poen [...] est in­nocens. Hee saith not, pla­nè est inno­cens, but poenè. some part: but Saint Paul deni­eth it. For 1 Cor. 1. 2. and 6. 11. he saieth, they were sanctified, holy, washed, iusti­fied: and such as are cleansed from the filth of sinne, are clean­sed from the blemish & reproch thereof; no iust and holy man is infamous. In the like sorte therefore may a note of infamie remayne vpon players: and yet bee removed as farr from your players, as is the East from the West. For what if some of them knew not this point of law? and were of such Minoribus viginti quin­que annis ius ignorare per­missum est. age too (which they were all perhaps, at least the players of wemens partes) as the Lꝰ. D. de jur & fact. igno. lawe exeuseth for ignorance therof? What if others were commanded to play by their superiours, whom they durst not displease; and so were in a maner L. 1D. Quod metus causa gestum erit. L. 12. c. de his quae vi, [...] cau [...] inforced therevnto; excused [Page 45] by Orat. p [...] Coelio. Tullie for Si jussus [...] accusare: ne­cessitati tri­buo. necessitie? What if a third sorte, or more, euen these also, haue since repented their playing, and thereby Esai. 1. 16. Wa­shed them selues, and made them selves cleane? Or if neither ig­norance, nor force, nor repentance, had either diminished that ignominious blott, or cleane abolished it; the contrarie where­of I am perswaded by the good nature, and honest ingenuitie of such of the parties as I knowe; but if they had not: yet I be­ing taught to presume the best by him who sayeth that 1. Cor. 13. [...] chari­tie beleeueth all things, hopeth all things, was to deeme they had, and so I doe still.

Yea, although you saye it greeueth them not a little that they should in private, but much more in publike, be charged with in­famie, I beleeue and hope so much the better of them: know­ing that there is a 2. Cor. 7. 9. griefe to repentance, which the Lorde wor­keth in his by such reproofes; and it was well with Mat. 26. 75. Peter, whē he wept bitterlie. Wherefore hauing this perswasion of your players, euen of them for whose partes I charged playes most, namelie Hippodamia, Melantho, the Nyph, Phaedra, & her Nurse; if I should haue noted them as infamous, them I saye, not their partes, these players and not players; I should haue ta­ken on me the iudgement that belongeth vnto the searcher of heartes and reines, and spoken against mine owne conscience. Which if you haue made them beleeue I loue them so ill, by reason of the bad conceit I haue of them, that I would doe of spite and malice to discredit them: yet lett me intreat them to thinke I loue my selfe better, then that I would through their sides wounde mine owne; who, when I was about the age that they are, six and twentie yeares since, did play a womans parte vpon the same stage, the part of Hippolyta. As for you, who pretending in your proposition you would assay to shewe that the trueth in this controuersie belongeth rather to your aunswers, then to the reasons fathered on Momus, doe afterward ende­uour in your confutation to obscure & darken the trueth with mistes of pitie and humane affectiōs, inculcating that it would be a contumelie to this or that youth with manie, vnlesse the cause be wonne on your side: lett mee intreat you likewise to regard hereafter, if not my most reasonable petition and desire, [Page 46] yet your owne conclusion; who, saying you may graunt without offence, you trust, that your censure of Momus in the generalitie lighteth vpon me, doe adde these woordes to proove it; For the maine matter is not, whether you had occasion to thinke your self to bee touched in the generalitie, or no, being of that opinion you are, but whether the opinion bee iustifiable, or no. Which point if you remember in your next replie, though next replie rather I need not much to feare if this point be remembred, no more then Cato needed to feare Galbas aunswere, who had bene con­demned except he had vsed boyes & teares, as Cic. lib. 1. de oratore. Cato wrote; but, had you remembred it in your last replie: you might haue in­duced me the more easilie to hearken vnto your advise and re­quest, that I should rather deale with you by private conference then by furder writing, if you had greatlie erred in any thing.

For the trueth and equitie of that which I said in defense of the reasons fathered on Momus to the reproofe of playes, is so vndoubted and manifest of it selfe; that men of vnderstan­ding and sense, who should compare your replie with it, must (though I kept silence) needes perceyue your stomake was sick of that [...] [...] Hippocrates termeth it. Aphorism. sect. 2. Apho. 21. hunger, which for an inordinate appetite it breedeth, Galen. in a­phoris. Hip­pocra. lib. 2. Alex. Tralli. lib. 7. cap. 3 Physicians call [...]. the dogged appetite: more greedily disposed to deuoure and swallow vp all that it mett with, then able to concoct or to retaine well ought that it had taken. A proofe heereof you giue in your verie beginning by crossing of my proême. Wherein I hauing thanked you for that by enlarging your aunswere to Momus, you shewed why you thought our rea­sons to be naught, sith that your reprooving thereof did touch mee also, who tooke them not to bee rascall reproches, as you termed them, but sound reasons: euerie braunch hereof you carpe and checke. But how? First, where I had written, that as our Savi­our, when he was smitten by one for speaking naught but reason, saide, If I haue spoken evill, beare witnesse of the evill; but if well, why doest thou smite me? so they, whose obiections against playes you attributed to the person of Momus, might iustlie saye in my iudgement, If our reasons be naught, discouer their naugh­tines; if good, why doe you Mome vs? You replie, that no man can rightlie say to you, If our reasons bee naught, discouer their [Page 47] naughtines; if good, why doe you Mome vs? as Christ might truely say, If I haue spoken euill, beare witnes of the evill; but if well, why doest thou smite me? because he vndoubtedlie had said nothing but reason, and therefore was most vniustlie smitten; but the obiections in your case and against you, are most vntrue, and there is no man smiten by you. Then which speech of yours (I pray you be not offended with me for my plainesse) I neuer read anie, to my remembrance, more voide of reason. For our Sauiours dilemma (according to Hermogen. de invēt. [...]. 4 ex Demost. de corona. Cic. lib. 1. de invent sub no mine com­plexion. the naturall force of that ar­gument) was made to apprehend and holde fast his aduersarie whether soeuer him selfe had spoken, euill, or well. So that, when the Mat. 27. 38. two theeues, who suffered with Christ, and Luke 23. 41. deser­ued death, were brought into iudgement, in case the iudge had offered to giue sentence against them Act. 25. 16. before they *heard why, they might haue iustlie saide, If we haue robbed any, beare witnesse of our robberie; if not, why doe you condemne vs? Wher­fore when, to reproove the former part of my dilemma, you af­firme that no man can rightlie saye vnto you, If our reasons bee naught, discouer their naughtines, because Christ vndoubtedlie had saide nothing but reason: vndoubtedly your selfe doe speak beside all reason. As much in a manner, as beside the trueth, when to reprooue the later part thereof you adde, that you doe Mome no man. For so must I interpret your wordes of smiting no man: or else you speake beside all reason herein too, when vpon my citing Christes wordes, Why doest thou smite me, by way of similitude to your Moming vs, you say, no man is smit­ten by you. But that some are smitē by you with Momus name, euen all reproovers of playes, and so (which is the next branch you plucke at) my selfe; I shewed by the meaning of the tale of Momus, opened out of Aristotle, ioyned with your applying thereof vnto a person who chargeth playes as we doe. To the refutation whereof it maketh nothing, that when you decla­red you did enlarge therefore your aunswer vnto Momus, because I and others had asked why the thinges by him obiected were not answered, you say that by others you meant some of your friends, not reprovers of playes: and that you had no purpose to touch me in particular, nor knew, when you conceyued and penned [Page 48] the devise of Momus, that I had reprooved them. For was it the man in the moone, trow we, whose Probra Ar­repta quae có­gessit ex triviis. rascall reproches, or (as you correct it) triviall and common, you put in the mouth of Momus, and made your Epilog controll them? Or was it some on earth, whose speeches, being noted by you as commō and taunting, doe argue that they had one or more authours, not friendes, but adversaries of playes? Moreouer, when you tell me, that till you vnderstoode it by me and by a Preacher of late, you neuer thought that either I, or anie other, in the Uni­versitie had abbetted Momus obiections: doe you not confesse, that, ere you wrote this, you vnderstood it of vs two? And can you perswade your selfe that we twoo alone, and no body else, are abbetters of them? Nay, doe you not signifie that you see there are more, when, speaking of others, you saye you mean [...] not such, as you perceyue by me there are, who should mislike your playes; and by way of opposing me and them to Many, you name vs One or a Few? You acknowledge then, that notwith­standing your selfe meant not these by others, yet certaine such there are. Neither can your vsing the devise of Criticus & Zoi­lus in like maner to rebuke the carpers of your owne Tragedie as curious and malitious, permit you to denie with anie colour of probabilitie that you meant to note these by Momus name. Chieflie nowe that you haue expreslie fastened it on them in your replie: saying in excuse of the time, the Sunday, whereon your Tragedie was played, that some of them, it may bee, who misliked your playes, were worse occupied then your actors were on the same night, playing Momus part in good earnest before you, which you did afterward but for pastime. Wherefore your complayning that you knowe not whom, nor very well what, I meane by They & Us, in that I said, They whose obiections, and, Why doe you Mome vs, is frivolous and idle, to say no worse of it: frivolous, because you know I meane the Preacher, my self, and all abbetters of Momus his obiections: idle, because albe­it you knew not whom I meane, yet my speech is found, that, They, whose obiections against playes, you attributed to the per­son of Momus, might iustlie say in my iudgement, If our reasons be naught, discouer their naughtines; if good, Why doe you Mo­rne [Page 49] vs? More idle and frivolous is your labouring to perswade me, that I had no iust occasion to suspect that your purpose was therein to touch me, to taxe me in particular; both by discour­sing that those two inducements, to weet, my reproving of Thea­ter-sights and stage-playes in the Preface of my Thesis, and my reasons giuen thereof in letters to D. Thornton, which I (so you affirme) did chieflie alleadge to proove my coniecture, are not e­nough to proove it, in as much as you had not read the one of thē, nor heard of the other: and by most earnestlie avouching coram Deo (as if an Gal. 1. 20. oath needed to cleare you from my wrongfull opinion and surmise) that your meaning onely was to moove de­lite in the auditorie, with the noveltie of the invention, and the person; and to obiect those things against your selues by your sel­ues, which might abate all suspicion of vaine glorie or selfe-plea­sing in you; and so by this meanes, as it were with a slight, to shift of all occasion of others ill speaking, whē you had prevented them with as ill as mought be. I saye, this is more idle and frivolous then the former, because I was so farre from making any shew of suspecting my selfe to be touched purposely by you in par­ticular: that contrariwise I signified I thought my self touched, not so, but in generall; by the censure lighting, not in your in­tent, but in event, vpon me. And for this respect alone, not for the other, did I alleadge those writings of mine, whiche you mention; to proove, not a coniecture thereby, but a certaintie, that I was a reproover of playes; and therefore sith you meant to note all such reproovers vnder the name of Momus, as I shewed withall, must needes thinke my selfe to bee touched therein. Which also I deliuered with such care of plainesse and perspicuitie, distinguishing eftsoones your intent of noting no particular man from your generall note touching mee by con­sequent, that as on the one parte you could not choose but graunt that I had occasion to thinke my self touched in the ge­neralitie; likewise of the other, you were enforced to see, that I gaue no token of anie way suspecting you to haue intended particularlie to taxe me. In so much that your selfe, encoūtring as it were your discourse thereof, acknowledge it expresselie with these very wordes; But that I had no purpose by Momus [Page 50] side to wound you, according to the law of charitie, vpon my for­mer protestation, you doe most gladly credit mee, as you write; and with these, The matter is cleered in your good minde; thus your selfe commende mee, and hartily thanke mee for it. A strange kinde of dealing to charge a man with thinking a­misse of your purpose, who, by your owne confession, thinketh rightly of it; to touch him as breaking the lawe of charitie through false surmises, who keepeth it in your owne iudge­ment; to take the name of God for effecting with him by new protestation, that which your former protestation, your selfe saye, had obtained of him; by manifest misconstruction to presse out of his writing a point whereof hee writeth the con­trarie, as your selfe witnesse; to controll a thing as misdeemed by him vppon erroneous coniecture, which your owne con­science testified to you, and your owne mouth to others, that it is cleered in his minde; finally to pretend, that being assaulted by one who sought your life, you were compelled to enter a long combat with him, when you graunt straightwayes vpon the ende thereof that no man did assault you; it was a post one­lie, whereon you sett a helmet to make it seeme a man, that so by valiant foyning at it, and hacking of it, you might gett the creditt of having slaine an enemie, and left him in the place as dead as a doore naile. The Alex. Tral­lian. li. 7. ca. 3. A [...]tius tre­trab. 3. serm. 6. cap. 21. Physicians note, that such as are diseased with that kinde of hungrie sicknes, which I men­tioned, haue a greedy appetite to bee eating still: but being vn­able to keepe that they haue eaten, doe cast it vp by vomit; and then eate more, and vomit againe; and eate eftsoones, and vo­mit. How like a distemper you are fallen into, through desire of swalowing vp & contradicting all that I had written, which yet your want of strength to hold and maintaine doeth force you to regorge and yeelde: your going onward in this course bewrayeth farder. For I, to shew how all reproovers of playes are noted as vniust reproovers by your tale of Momus, decla­red out of Aristotle, that it was devised to checke such as re­prooue vnjustly the best and perfitest workes of the most wise and skilfull. You reply that you brought him not in so much in that sense that Aristotle speaketh of, as a reproover of the best and [Page 51] perfitest workes of the most wise and skilfull; for I never tooke (say you) either our selves, or our playes to bee such: but as wee commonly take him as a carper, and a pincher at all thinges that are done with any opinion of well dooing. Wherein with one breath you overthwart, and graunt, the purport of my speech. You overthwart it in saying that you brought Momus in, as we cōmonly take him; & opposing this point to the point I mentio­ned, Not in that sense that Aristotle speaketh of, but thus: You graunt it in confessing that you brought him in also in that sense, though not so much in that sense: which I said not you did so much, but only that you did it. And albeit herein by gaine­saying me with your, Not, and But, you may seeme to charge me with saying that you brought him in so much in that sense: yet you meant rather by cunning interlacing of those words, so much, closely to discharge your mouth of a morsel, which you had taken in, and felt it overhoott and burning. For having alleaged Ipsamque reprehendit artificem om nium. Quod capire tauris cornua, haud armis daret. the very same that Aristotle, howe Momus carped Nature, the Creatour of all things, that is, God, I trow, the most wise and skilfull framer of the best and perfitest workes: you adde, that Sic matre Nocte geni­tus [...]ac Som­no Patre, Ni­hil ipse prae­stans optimos carpit tamen after this sort, Momus (whom you bring in) though dooing nought him selfe, yet carpeth at the best; and hath with these and these tants declaimed against your playes. So, whereas your reason, that you never tooke your selves or your playes to be such, should import that you brought him not in at all in that sense; and then had I affirmed amisse, that you rehearsed the tale to such purpose: your ground thereof alayed with the termes, so much, implieth that you grant, that the thing it self, which I affirmed, is true, and that you were disposed to playe by this conveyance a iugling tricke of fast and loose. Againe, whereas I noted that you called our reasons, attributed to Mo­mus, rascall reproches, vsing the English words to expresse your Latin, probra arrepta ex triviis: first you wish I had not so tansla­ted it, for that the wordes in Latin naturally sound not so hardly; yet afterward you graūt that you know the words may be so pro­perly translated. Wherof in the later how manifestly you cast vp that which you swalowed in the former, appeereth by your la­bouring to cōfirme the former, what with De verbo [...]. significat. lib. 1. Alciats saying, that [Page 52] wordes must bee generally taken so farre foorth as their proprietie may beare; what with your owne denying that In your co­pie sent me, it is, arrepta ex triviis: w ^t greater iniu­rie if you meant to sup presse the word probra Which that you did, you giue me oc­casion to su­spect, becaus before like­wise, you cite it, leaving out y ^e word, & English it common & triviall spee­ches: yet be­cause in an­other copie, giuē by you abroad, be­like after mine, I find y ^e word here: I take the omitting therof in my copie to bee a slippe of your penne, and therfore doe insert it. probra arrepta ex triviis doe most properly and principally signifie rascall repro­ches. Most properly, and principally; a like feate in adding to the worde properly, most, and principally, as before in thrusting in the termes, so much: sith neither in the clause, which answe­reth to this, you ioyne most with naturally; nor say out of Al­ciat, that wordes must be taken as their most principall proprie­tie may beare (though by an Primus au­tem intelle­ctus proprie­tatis est sua vniuscujusque rei appellatio other note of his, From parag. 5. as if it en­sued the rest of the words you cite out of Paragr. 10 displaced cunningly, and racked herevnto, it seemeth you would faine imply it) but as their proprietie. Howbeit, if I list to presse you therein also, perhaps the same phrase, arnipere maledictum ex trivio, vsed by Orat. pro. Muraen. Tullie, and compared with Alciats meaning of most proper and principall signification, would proue that pro­bra arrepta ex triviis doe most properly and principally signifie rascall reproches. Sure they haue bene deemed skilfull of both languages, who taking on them to deliver the principall and most proper signification of Latin wordes, haue Englished ma­ledictum arreptum ex trivio, Eliota biblioth. aucta à coopero, edit. an̄. 1548. in the worde arripio. a reproche or tant, which is com­monly spoken by every railing knaue, or, The same, in the same place edit. [...]t. that is common in eue­rie verlets mouth: and what doeth this, I pray you, differ from rascall? But sith your selfe acknowledge that wordes naturally doe sound and signifie that which they signife properly, and that these in question may bee translated properly as I did translate them: you shew that in affirming they doe not naturally sound so hardly, you controlled as false that which your selfe knew to be true, yea, which you needes must so acknowledge. In like sort doe you crosse your me, nay, you crosse yourselfe, when in an other enditement that you drawe against me for the same En­glishing of your Latin, to weet, that though the wordes may bee so properly translated, yet not to your minde so properly, that is, not so gently as you meant them, and therefore I did mistranslate them: you say that in lawe and reason they are ever to bee inter­preted according to their natural and proper signification, vnlesse we coniecture that hee who speake them meant otherwise; and no [Page 53] man can iustly coniecture that you meant to vse any honest man with so illtermes, when you meant no man at all. See the pitifull taking of such as seeke devises to bolster out vntruths for their credits sake: who by those very shifts, by which they hope to scape, are oftentimes entangled, and as it were with nettes or chaines entrapped faster. Your owne affirmation, that you meant no man at all, doeth giue mee iust cause of coniecturing that you meant to vse the terme of rascall, as well as of re­proches, be they never so ill. For in that you say, that you meant no man at all, you intend your former speech, that you meant Momus onely. Nowe you charged Momus with a Ipsum esse Momum lin­gua tam [...] ­da arguit. filthie toung, an Dira facies. ougly face, a Quis huius oris spiritum effugiat gra­vem? stinking breath, an Comae color improbus Ardens ca­pilli quis do­met virus tui? ill favored gastly rammish bush of heare: and can no man iustly coniecture that you meant to vse him with so ill termes, as rascall reproches? You called him a Obiicere ta­li me queam spectro, Deos Hominesque, naturamque carpenti im­pie; Odioque Diis propte­reà homini­busque opti­mis. spirit, an impious carper of the Gods, of men, and of nature, a person therefore odious and detestable to the Gods, and to the best men: and can no man iustly coniecture that you meant to vse him with so ill termes, as rascall reproches? You re­ported of him that Linguaeque tactu foedat imundo om­nia. hee defileth all thinges with the vncleane touch of his toung; that Inscitia tibi vt impunè sit, & animi stu­por Pietas putetur? he is vnskilfull, dull, or sottish rather: & can no man iustly coniecture that you meant to vse him with so ill termes, as rascall reproches? But what doe I reason out of your former writing that I had cause to thinke so: when your selfe, in this, doe giue most euident & cleere tokens that you meant so? For you say expressely that you made Momus to speake as ill as mought be; neither cared greatly what you made him say, as thinking any such thing became him well inough: nor talked otherwise of him, then as of a carper, a nipper, a depraver, and a reprehender of every goodthing. And can you deny that your meaning was to speak of his reproches as rascall, base and con­temptible, whom you made purposely to speak as ill as mought be, and cared not what you made him say? or dare you affirme you meant to vse him gently, whom you accuse of carping, nipping, depraving, and reprehending all good thinges, and doe rough hewe him in such sorte? You tell me that how words are to be taken in charitie I know better then you: but in law and rea­son they are to bee interpreted with this rule of thé speakers mea­ning. [Page 54] Belike because you weened that you had prooved here­by, (chieflie having quoted thereto a Alciat. de verb. signifi. lib. 1. lawiers text,) that, look in what sense you say you meant your wordes, in that I must interpret them by law and reason: you thought that I was like­wise in charitie bound to thinke that you meant them so, in as much as the scripture saieth, 1 Cor. 13. 7 Charitie beleeueth all things. But you should haue marked that the scripture saith also, Prov. 14. 15 A foole beleeueth every thing: and he who exhorteth the faithful to be charitable, dehorteth them from doeing foolishlie, Ephe. 5. 15. Walke not as fooles, but as wise. A sure demonstration, that charitie is said to beleeue all things, not properlie, but in a figure; not simplie all, but a number; euen all that a good man in wisedome may beleeue. And to 2 Thes. 2. 11 beleeue vntruthes, is a point of follie; repug­nant, as to wisedome, so consequentlie to charitie: which in the 1 Cor. 13. 6 same parcell of scripture is saide, not to reioyce in iniquitie, but to reioyce at the trueth. Wherefore seeing reason doeth shew by sundrie circumstances, that you say vntrulie, You meant not to vse so ill and hard termes, as rascall reproches; and this is the naturall and proper signification of your Latin wordes, which therefore must be so interpreted by law: it were to be wished, that you learned better what charitie requireth, before you raise vncharitable suspicions of others as sinning against it whē they doe not; and then it might bee hoped you would no more pretend the name of law or reason, to plaister your vnreasona­ble and vnlawfull blaming of things deliuered rightlie accor­ding both to law and reason.

Olympior. Hymn. 6. Pindarus sayth, that men who take workes in hande, must sett them forth with beautifull forefrontes and entrees. The lesse doe I marvell that you who make so badd a beginning of your worke, deale worse, if worse might be, and more perverslie in the rest. Whereof to reserue for their severall places the proofe that in a maner all the particulars yeeld; two generall kindes of seelie evasions and shiftes may serue for the first taste: one, that when you see your argumentes refuted, you denie them to bee yours; an other that you say, you vsed them not to vs, but to Momus; and by this fine devise you neither aunswere Momus, nor vs. For examples sake, whereas to the obiection made out [Page 55] of the worde of God against your playes, that it is vnlawfull for men to put on wemens raiment, you replied that it is not vnlaw­full simply and alwayes, as if one doe it to save his life, to benefitt manie: I shewed that this reason is vnsound and naught:; A mā to saue his life or countrey, may doe it; He may doe it therefore to play a parte on a stage. Herevnto you answere, that you doe not thus argue, It is lawfull in such and such cases to putt on womens raiment; Ergo it is lawfull to doe it in playes: but thus; ergo it is not simplie vnlawfull so to doe. And did you argue thus in deed, neyther concluded you, that it is lawfull therefore to doe it in playes? Certes then you disputed valiantlie against Momus, who Praeclara res est Mimus, & gestum asse­qui, Simulare vultū ac ver­ba, testari De­os, Et sub pu­ella tegere iu­venem pube­rem. reprooved playes because young men are cladde like mai­dens therein. But your whole discourse doeth argue that this argument whereof you are ashamed (well, if you would also ingenuouslie confesse it) was intended by you. For you profes­sed that albeit you thought Momus rascall reproches against playes worthier to bee laughed at, then to bee refuted: Graviora paucis excu­tere fas sit tamen. yet the weightiest of them you would in fewe wordes shake out of their ragges; or who soeuer you will translate your excutere, applied to those rascalls. Now by what consequence doeth your aun­swer shake that reproche of his, vnlesse it conclude that men may be lawfully cladde in playes like wemen? Or who is so blinde that reading your reply, perceyueth not your Nō ergo ve­stis faeminea iuveni est sce lus, sed prava mens, libido, &c. second Ergo, I say your second, For the Nō ergo iu­ueni est gran­de simpliciter nefas Mollem puell induere first (I graunt) concludeth, that it is not simply vnlawfull so to doe; but the seconde Ergo, with the Quid simile nobis obiice­re quisquam potest? assumption following, and the Maledicta textú glossa quae vitiat bonum. Epiphonema, direct­lie do imply a contradicting of Momus; and therfore a conclu­ding out of the former point, that, because it is lawfull in such and such cases to put on Wemens raiment, Ergo it is lawfull to doe it in playes? What? And when you saide that Nec habitus vllus, sed ani mus turpem facit. no apparell but the minde doeth make a man dishonest, meant you not that men may weare womens raiment with honestie in playes? Whē you concluded that Quae dixit in nos alia dilu­ere haud pla­cet. You list not wash away other things which Momus spake against you: did you not imply that heerein you had mett with his blaming you for young men made mai­dens on the stage? When you begged a Proinde dis­rumpantur vt Momo ilia, Iterum be­nignus vndi­que applau­sus sonet. seconde Plaudite of the beholders, that the guttes of Momus might burst for spite a­sunder: [Page 56] sought you their approbation of Achilles changing his sexe to saue his life; or of Melanthos dooing it to feede theatri­call humours? In the Lib. 2. ca. 30 Greek Epigrammes we read of two deafe men impleading one the other before a deafe iudge. Amongst whom when the plaintife obiected to the defendant, that hee ought him fiue moneths rent for his house, and the defendant answered that he was grinding corne at the mill that night: What a Gods name, quoth the iudge, what needeth this conten­tion? Hath not eche of you a mother? Let eche finde his owne. I am glad, M ^r D. Gager, that by your appealing to the iudgement of our betters, wee haue agreed on iudges who heare well i­nough. For they, vnderstāding how your Ulysses redux is pen­ned and was played, will iudge that you are not deafe: as Cic. de Se­nect. their like at Athens hauing heard Oedipus Coloneus read, a tragedie written by Sophocles, gaue sentence that he was not a sott or doting man. And therefore, though you tell them that in your reply, of grinding at the mill, you meant to proove onely that you hurt not Momus by seeking of his life or purse that night on Salsbery plaine: yet they, considering wiselie that you pro­fessed to aunswer his bill of complaint touching the fiue mo­neths rent, will think you argued thus against him; I was grin­ding corne at the mill that night, Ergo I owe him not fiue moneths rent for his house. Neither can I doubt but they will in like sort mislike your other practise, of saying that you spake not to vs but to Momus, and so slipping away with answering nei­ther him, nor vs. As when you asked vs in Momus person, (so I tooke it) Dare ye despise learned poetrie? secretlie to inferre thereby your maine conclusion, that if learned poetrie may not be despised, your students may be actors of learned Poets playes; and I out of S ^t Paul did refell this argument: you reply that you asked not of me, or them, or any man but Momus, any such que­stion. Which thing you doe not onely avouch vpon your word, affirming that you should be beleeued: but you cite your writing also to prove it, An tu Poësin despicere doctam audeas? Vrging that you said not, An vos; but An tu. Manie greeuous panges of that hungrie sickenes, which, for the symptomata of eating still and vomiting, Physicians (as I shewed) doe name the dog­ged appetit, appeare in your whole reply. But none more gree­uous [Page 57] in any part thereof, then here, where, through the sharp­nes and outrage of your humour, you fulfil that proverb, (your Crudelem medicum in­temperans aeger facit. Publius Syrus intemperance forceth me to be more cruell, I meane, to vse more lothsome & displeasant speeches then otherwise I would, speciallie to persons of your state and qualitie) you fulfill, I say, that proverb of Salomon, Prov. 26. [...] A dogg returneth to his vomit. Yea, in so much worse sorte doe you suppe this againe vp, whiche you vomited before, of meaning neither mee nor anie other man in your reproofe of Momus: because you adde such rea­sons to proove you meant not vs in asking that questiō, as your selfe must needes know you vttered but a sicke mans dreame. For (to beginne with the later, which is the stronger of them) your selfe doe acknowledge vpon my proofe thereof out of your owne wordes, that in Epistola ad Criticum. your reproofe of Criticus and Zoi­lus, whosoever findeth such fault with your Tragedie, as you con­troll them for, him you meant to note as a malitious Zoilus, and a carping Criticke. Yet the Criticke you speake to in the singu­lar number, as well as to Momus: You answere to his sundrie checkes of your epistle, Rectè tu quidem ista, Critice, si scribe­rem epigrammata: you say not vos, but tu. You note him for his Ita es inge­niose male­dicus. wittie railing at your Tragedie, Profectò ipsum te esse Cri­ticum oportet: you say not vos, but te. You detest his foolish & quarelsome wranglings, Emoriar si amem lites, saltem criticas, id est futiles, id est tuas, Critice: you say not vestras, but tuas. You come vpon him eftsoones, againe, and againe, with Quid enim putidius, quàm quod tu facere so­les? tu, and Tu improbè facis, qui in alieno libello nimis es in­geniosus. tu, and tuae; and, Critice, as to one still: you saye not vos Critici, vos Critici, and vestrae. Wherefore if notwithstanding your forme of speech to one in the singular number, you inten ded it to all, as curious carpers, who will be picking quarells at your Tragedie-writing: alas, What was become of your wittes and senses, when by such a cavill you thought to convince me, that, because you said not An vos, but An tu, you meant not 5 Lector de­bebit tuae, id est, malae linguae. your speech to me and all others, as vniust reproovers, who will be finding fault with your enterlude-playing? Those Zac. 11. 17. idole-pa­stors of the Church, Tit. 1. 12. evill beastes, and slow-bellies, who Psal. 115. 5 haue mouths, and speake not; eyes, and see not; feete, and goe not; who Ezek. 34. 2. feede themselves and not their flockes, but Amos. 6. [...] take their [Page 58] ease in Sion; doo seeke with faces harder then brasse, and hearts then adamant, to besott themselves, and perswade others, that Luk. 19. 22. Christs reproofe of the wicked servant, which employed not the moony he receved as his maister charged him in trade and traficke to his advantage, belongeth not to them. But amongst their wretched excuses and defenses of their non-residence, though as lewde and brainesicke many, as this is, yet never heard I this; that Christ speaketh not to them; but to a losell who laid vp his mony in a napkin, because his wordes are, of thine owne mouth will I iudge thee, ô evill servant; he saith not, of your own mouths, but of thine; not, I will judge you, but thee. The covetous engrossers of wealth & slaves of Mammon, who Esai. 5. 8. ioyne house to house, and lay field to field, till there bee no place; whose Iob. 31. 24. hope is their gold; whose Amos. 8. 5. godlines their gaine; whose Luk. 12. 17. meditation, what shall I doo? I will pull down my barnes and build greater, and therein will I gather all my fruits and my goods; and I will say to my soule, Soule, thou hast much goods laid vp for many yeares; liue at ease, eate, drinke, and be mery: these worldlings faine would flatter themselues with assurance of many yeares life, and much would they giue for a lease thereof. But I thinke they are not so full of 1. Sa. 25. 25 Nabals qualitie, that the Lords advertisement Luk. 12. 20. o foole, this night shall thy soule be fetched away from thee, they will reiect by noting hee saith, thy soule from thee, he saith not, yours from you: and therevpon imagin they are not tenants at will, nor may bee turned out of their Iob. 4. 19. houses of clay vpon an howres warning, nay vpon no warning giuen them at all. Orat. pro Muraen. Tullie maketh mention of some witty lawiers, who, because they found the name of Caia set downe for example sake in some autours bookes treating of a certaine solemnitie in betrothing, they thought that everie woman so betrothed and maried should be called Caia. A con­ceit, that seemed ridiculous to Tullie: yet coming farre be­hinde that which yours implyeth, that no other woman but Caia alone was meant in the treatise, and therefore none but shee might bee so betrothed. By consequence whereof if you had lived in those dayes, you must haue mainteined that it was not lawfull for any to bee maried but onely Iohn and Ioane, I [Page 59] would say Caius and Caia. For Plutar. Ro­manor. insti­tutor. ca. 30. the maner was that they, who brought the bride into the bridegromes house, did bid her vse this speech, Ubi tu Caius, ego Caia: not making any mention of Lucius and Lucia, Sempronius and Sempronia, but of Caius and Caia; neither saying nos, & vos, but tu & ego.

Nowe if the stronger of your reasons hinder not but your de­mande might bee made to vs: much lesse doeth the weaker.

For whereas you tell vs, that you demanded not of me, or them, or any man but Momus, any such question, if you may be be­leeued; as, why you should not, you see no cause: first how prooue you this, that you see no cause, why you should not bee beleeued? Forsooth because you were as sure (you say) that I or any lear­ned man did not despise poëtrie, as you were certaine that Mo­mus did. O miserable blindnesse shall I say? or madnes, where­with your humorous greedines of crossing me distracted you. As who say you had not so much the greater reason to aske vs such a question, because you were sure that wee did not despise poetrie. Else you must affirme that when Christ demanded, Matt. 12. 12 what man shall there be among you that hath a sheepe, who, if it fall on a Sabbat day into a pitt, will not take holdof it, and lift it out? Hee asked not any such question of the Phariseis, or Scribes, or any man, but your Momus brethren, that is, the men whom fansies imagine in the cloudes: because hee was as sure that the Phariseis or any wise man would not suffer his sheepe to lie in the pitt on the Sabbat day, as hee was certaine that the cloudes would. For if you perceaue that Christ, to make the Phariseis confesse that it is lawfull to heale a man on a Sabbat day, had reason to demand whether they would not lift vp their sheepe out of a pitt then, which hee knewe they would; that by granting this they might discerne the better they must needes graunt that: how could you choose but see, that your purpose being to make vs confesse, that comedies & tragedies may bee lawfully played, you had like reason to aske whether wee did despise learned poëtrie, which you were sure we did not; that by graunting this (you thought) wee might the rather be forced to graunt that. Wherefore sith-even here­in there was cause sufficient to make mee imagin that you did [Page 60] demande the question of vs: you should conclude rather that your sight was naught, who saw not so much, then that, be­cause you saw it not, you should bee beleeued affirming the contrarie. Moreover, to admitt there was no cause herein why you should not be beleeved, yet might there bee in some­what else: and such, as you should also haue easily espied, vn­lesse the inordinate passion of your minde had daseled your sight. For your L 2. D. de testibus. l. 27 D. ad leg. Corn. de fals. law informed you that they, who are vncon­stant and light in their testimonies, must not be beleeued: Now, though you perceue not your own fault therein, as Politicor. lib. 3. cap. 12 Aristotle saith, Physicians beeing sicke can not discerne the trueth touch­ing their owne diseases because of their distemper, and therefore doe they vse the helpe of other Physicians: the events of your hungry sicknes, which I noted, doe manifestly argue, that you wauered much in saying and vnsaying the same when you wrote to me. And how small account of yeelding to the trueth you make in these matters, you had shewed before when Epist. ad Cri­ticum. you tolde Criticus, that Haud seio an vera ista sint: fortasse non multum absunt à ve­ris Sed tamē libet ire con­trà. you know not whether those things be true, which hee obiecteth; and perhaps they are not farre from beeing true: yet are you disposed to goe against them, to crosse them. You might see cause therefore why you should not bee belee­ved in that you affirme you demanded not of vs, or any man but Momus, any such question. Howbeit granting this, which you so wrastle for, what say you then to Momus; I meane to the argument implied in your demaunde to him, and prooved by mine aunswere to bee naught and defectiue? Nay, not a worde to that. Onely, as if you would say that you were dis­posed to spurre him idle questions, and not to reason against him; or that, although the reason meant therein were naught, yet good enough for him whom you make a Mome and faine to your selfe a foolish adversarie, a thing that Lib. 5. ca. 13 Declamato­res in primis sunt admo­nendi, ne sibi stultum ad­versariū fin­gant. Facimus autem &c. Quintilian mis­liketh in declaimers; you say that you asked it of no man but of Momus. Thus in these generall and common kindes of miserable evasions and shifts through the mist whereof you would scape away: our iudges will acknowledge (I hope) that your intent was rather to seek corners for hiding of your fault, then to confesse your oversights and yeelde the victorie to the [Page 61] truth. Surely, for mine owne parte, your dealing doeth per­swade mee that when you resolved to reply vpon mee, you thought with your selfe the same that you vttered in your epistle vnto Criticus: I know not whether these thinges bee true which he writeth; and perhaps they are not farr from being true, Sed tamen libet ite con­trà. yet am I disposed to haue a crash against them.

Yea, even for the branches and points wherevnto you stand in the particulars, the fower heades of reasons, neither denying their drift, the marke they aimed at; nor excusing them as faire against Momus, though they come nothing neere the marke: albeit you deale with greater probabilitie, and therefore cary your selfe the bolder, yet deale you like your selfe, and lay still the colours of probabilitie on sophistrie. For whereas in the first, concerning the iudgement of the ancient Romans hol­ding all stage-players infamous by their lawe, you saide that the Praetor pronounced none infamous but such as played for gaine sake, and I prooved the contrarie by the Praetors words: you reply that the Praetor meant the same that you say, though his wordes were generall of stage-players without distinction. This in the formost ranke, if it will prevaile. If not; you adde thereto, that the actors of your playes are no stageplayers. But how false both these thinges are, and how fraudulently sought to bee avouched: our bettets, if it please them to compare my proofes with your reply, shall see. For Tullie, as I shewed, affir­meth that the Romans counting all kindes of stageplayes shame­full and dishonest, agreed that such as played them should not on­lie want the honour of other citizens, but also bee disfranchised: Which, for the last note of infamie, beeing also witnessed by Livie, and S. Austin having therevpon observed that the Ro­mans counted all stage-players infamous: Gothofredus knowing that the edict of the Praetor did expresse the iudgement and law of the Romans, and marking that the words of the edict were generall touching all stage-players, saith in the interpreting thereof that both players for gaine sake and without gaine were helde infamous by it, according to S. Austin and Livie. And this to haue bene truely saide by Gothofredus, I declared agreeably to the grounds of law by testimonies of the Romans; [Page 62] of Cornelius Nepos, Laberius, Iuvenal, Suetonius, Tacitus, Die, and others. As for that Vlpian (whose wordes you cited as the Praetors) and Pegasus with Nerva, doe say that such as play for gaine sake are infamous, I aunswered that it foloweth not that therefore they thought free players not infamous: sith the Scripture likewise counteth a woman infamous who prostitu­teth her body vnto men for mony; yet counteth her infamous too who doeth it freely. Or if they thought the Praetors edict to haue that meaning, which perhaps they did: then they come too short of his meaning somewhat, and are well corrected therefore by Gothofredus. Now you, to proove the contrarie and disproove my proofes, affirme that D. de his qui notantur in­fam. l. 2. §. Ait Praetor. Nerva and Pegasus adde those words Quaestus causa, & pro­pter praemiū. for gaine sake to distinguish players for gaine from free players, which, you say, is manifest: and againe as manifest, you say, that Ulpian doeth approove their distinction. But if you thought good to confirme this point, whereof I shewed onely what cause I had to dout, I denied it not: you should bring strong arguments to convince they doe so, not idle affirmatiōs that it is manifest they doe. For what if a weal­thie and lasciuious courtisan should say that Deut. 23. 18 Moses mentio­neth the hire of the whoore, to distinguish mercenarie whoores frō free and franke dames, as it is manifest: and againe, as manifest that the Hos. 9. 1. Mic. 1. 7. Prophets doe approove his distinction? were there any weight in this to perswade vs that Moses and the Prophets mention the whoores hire to distinguish hired whoores frō de­filers of them selues without hire; vnhonest from honest; infa­mous from prayse-worthie: and not to note rather that such as play the whoores doe it for hire commonlie? You adde, that Glossa communis, Baldus, Petrus de Castro (would you not say Paulus? for Petrus I can not heare of) and all whom you have seene vpon that text of law doe so vnderstand it. This is an ar­gument yet: though not strong enough. For all, whō you have seene, vnderstand it so. It may be. But others, who haue seene more law-bookes, perhaps can tell you of many that vnder­stand it otherwise. My selfe, as few as I haue seene, can tell you of two; Annotat. in [...]. Budaeus, and an Autour of a Greeke abridgement of the Civill law, whom Budaeus citeth. For the Greeke authour doth [Page 63] expound it thus, That all, who trie masteries in solemne games for gaine sake, are infamous: [...]. and also they who come vpon the stage for prayse sake. And Budaeus moving a question and doubt how these wordes of the text, that all who come vppon the stage Propter prae mium. for reward, are infamous; should be vnderstoode, whether that they be not also infamous who come vpon the stage Ambitiosa ostentatione. for vaineglo­rious ostentation, answereth and resolveth out of S ^t Augustin, and Livie, Attem om­nem scenicā probrosam Romae fuisse: atque omnes scenicos cen­soria nota tribu moueri solitos. that all stageplaying was counted infamous at Rome, and all stageplayers were wont to be disfranchised by the Censors. Whose interpretation in a point of this qualitie deserveth more credit then a hundred such as Paulus de Castro: so meanlie seene in the text he treateth of, that he giueth the word, stage, a different meaning from that in the Praetors edict, which it ex­poundeth; and saith, it speaketh of other games. An argument much stronger in shew, in substance weaker, you fetch out of the text: that in certamen descendere, and in scenam prodire, doe (as they saye in your lawe) ambulare aequis passibus, in the same places of the same title, De his qui notātur infamia; but it is most evident, that D. de postu­lando. l. 1. §. bestias. & D. de his qui not. infam. l. 4. qui descendit in certamen depugnaturus cum be­stijs dentatis, ac feris, virtutis ostendendae nō mercedis causa, non est notatus; Ergo qui prodit in scenam pronuntiandi gratia sine praemio & quaestu, non est notatus. Which syllogisme of yours if you allow for good: what say you vnto this, that (me seemes) is like it? In certamen descendere and in scenam prodire doe am­bulare aequis passibus in the same places of the same title; but it is most evident, that D. de his qui not. infam. l. 4. C de ath­letis. l. un. qui descendit in certamen luct a aut cur su certaturus cum hominibus non facit artem ludicram; Ergo qui prodit in scenā pronuntiandi gratia non facit artem ludicra. The major is your owne. The minor as true as yours: Yet the con­clusiō false; which L. 1. 2. & 3. D. de his qui not. infam. the same places of the same title shew. And seeing by my syllogisme you perceiue, I trust, that the manlie exercises of wrastling and running doe farre out-runne stage­playing, as it is meete they should: you see that the major of your syllogisme fayleth, and that certamen and scena doe not walke with evē passe, but are coupled togither as a quick grey­hound and a lazy curre. Farder is it from reason that you ad­ioyne a reason of the favourable parte of the distinction out of [Page 64] the C. de specta­culis. l. 1. in fine. Code; or rather adioyne it not, but say that you thinke it may be gathered thence: because the games of wrastling, rūning, and such like be permitted to them who desire and offer to beare the charge thereof. When neither doeth it follow that because these games are allowed by Emperours to willing bearers of the charge, L. 10. D. ad leg. Iul. de vi publica. not imposed on the vnwilling, therefore free stageplay­ers are approved by Ulpian: and it is a wandring fansie to ima­gin why it should be so, when the question is whether it bee so or no. The reason of the other side which I sett downe to shew that the distinction can not be enforced out of Ulpians words, because the scripture likewise condemneth them of wickednes who play the hoores for hire, yet acquitteth not free hoores; you confute as soundly, as you confirme your owne. For you say it is simply evill to play the hoore, either freely or for reward; but not simply evill to come vpon the stage, because the law allow­eth it if it bee done sine quaestu: which is a plaine begging of the point in question. And yet having tolde mee that I must evict that it is simply a sinne for any prodire in scenam, as it is for a woman to prostitute her body; (I cut off your superfluous words, as namely, vile, in adding which epitheton to sinne you double a fault corrected by your selfe before when you said, that I as­sume that the one is as greevous a sinne, as the other, or at the least as absolutely a sinne:) but having tolde me this, you pleade a­gaine the same sophisme, avouching that your consequence, Prodire in scenam quaestus causa, infamat; ergo prodire in sce­nam sine quaestu, non infamat, is a good consequence, because the law so distinguisheth. How much greater reason had you to be perswaded, that sith I had evicted it to be simply evill, be­cause simply infamous by the Praetors sentence, that is, by the law; Vlpian, with his autours, interpreters thereof, did insert those wordes not for distinction sake, but to note the common cause why it was practised, the loue of reward. Chiefly seeing otherwise it must needes folow there is [...] betwene the texts of your law, and one of them doeth crosse an other. Which if the lawiers whom you haue seene thereon, had as wel observed by S. Austin and Livie, as Budaeus had: perhaps they would haue thought that all sortes of stage-players, even such [Page 65] as shew them selves for applause to please men, are therein no­ted also, as Budaeus did. But I, who thinke there may be repug­nancies in your textes, and had an eye to the point in question betwene vs, to weet, whether the Praetor, whose Edictum per petuū. Ascon. Paedian in cic. orat. pro corn D. de orig. jur. l. 2. §. Eodem tempore. C. de vet. jur. enucleand. l. 2. §. Sed quia. edict expres­sed the ancient Romans law, pronounced all stage-players infa­mous; not whether Vlpian thought so, who lived in later age after greaterand longer corruption of maners, and consequent­lie of opinions; in so much that hee would exempt a Agitatores. D. de his qui notantur in­fam. l. 4. sort of fruitlesse game-servers from infamie, whom neither Tacit. annal. lib. 14. Cur­riculo quadri garum insi­stere, foedum studium. Dio, Xiphil. epit. in Net. Es [...]. ancient Romans, though Heathens, did before him, nor C. de specta­culis & sceni­cis. l. 4. See Cuiacius vp­on it. Christian Emperours after: I (as you acknowledge) did admit they thought so, but vrged that the Praetor affirmed the same that I doe, and they mistooke his meaning, as Gothofredus prooveth in his note thereon. To the which assertion, after a preferring of them before Gothofrede, if not in learning, yet authoritie, needelesse to bee stoode on; (for though hee were not better learned then they were, yet might he see by S. Austin and Li­vie that they saw not; neither is it autoritie, but learning, that must teach vs what the Praetor meant:) you say that in some sense his short, but quicke note, Immò & qui sine quaestu, hurteth not you at all. Well. In some sense then it hurteth you, in some it doeth not. And doth that sense, wherin he meant it, hurt you or no? If no: why say you afterward, Gothofrede doeth gloze a­gainst a manifest law without giuing any reason of his so doing? If yea: what spirit of wrangling had bewitched you to construe an autours words as not gainesaying you, which in his own mea­ning you knew made flat against you? For after you had saide, If hee meaneth thereby to taxe Laberius, Lentulus, Nero, and such like, that did exercere histrioniam, though gratuitam, his exception maketh not against your text; and had given a reason thereof, beside the text cleane, neither agreeing to Laberius, whom yet by your forenaming him it should haue touched: you come in with these wordes, But Gothofrede in deede foun­deth his sharpe note vpon a saying of S. Austin, Omnes enim sce­nici probrosi; and of Livie, Et tribu moveri soliti. So you doe confesse that Gothofrede in deede, although you sensed him as if he taxed onely them who played to satisfie their dissolute and [Page 66] lewde humours, that so hee might not seeme to make against your text, your sense thereof at least; yet in deede he counteth all stage-players infamous, according to the sayinges of S. Au­stin and Livie, whereon he foundeth his note. In deede Mai­ster Gager, you are much to blame, who, to shew that you can obscure a most cleere truth with pretense of lawe, and a distin­ction of some sense, doe hazard the shipwracke of a good con­science, and wastfully employ your witt and time both, in bol­stering out by writing that which your selfe see and knowe to bee vntrue. I did say before, that I gathered by your dealing that when you resolved to reply against me, you thought with your selfe: I know not whether these things be true which he wri­teth; yet am I disposed to haue a crash against them. Now I must inpart correct that my saying. For you shew that somewhere in your reply you thought; I know that this thing, which he wri­teth, is true; Sed-tamen libet ire con­ [...]. yet haue I a lust to contradict it.

True it is therfore that by Gothofredes iudgement the Praetor accounted all stage-players infamous; and they, who tooke the Praetor otherwise, mistooke him. Whereof although I did not alleage Gothofredus for the chiefest proofe, but principally ci­ted him to satisfie you, a lawier by a lawier, and prooved it by the best interpreter of the lawe, the practise and consent of the ancient Romans, which he doeth ground on also: yet you ha­ving answered him (you say) already as it were by the way, doe adde that by him the rest of my autorities and all mine examples also may receve their true, though short aunswer. The autorities then of Tullie, of Nepos, of Laberius, of Liuie, of Iuvenal, of Suetonius, of Tacitus, of Dio, and of S. Austin; the examples of Nero, Lentulus, and the rest, whom not such autours onely but the people of Rome too did esteeme infamous for their stage-playing, were it freelie, or for gaine; may bee aunswered by your answere to Gothofredus. And how? For hee (you say) glozeth against a manifest lawe without giuing any reason of his so doeing. Why? Doeth not he giue a reason in these wordes, Omnes enim scenici probrosi, & tribu moveri soliti, prooved by S. De ciuit. Dei lib. 2. cap. 11 Austin and Lib. 7. Livie? But S. Austin and Livie could never dreame of your text, you say; and so their autorities serve not to [Page 67] interpret it. As who say Gothofredus brought them to interpret your text, that is, Ulpian: not rather to interpret the Praetors edict, & to correct your text thereby. For thus doth he reason in effect: Ulpian expounding the Praetors edict, saith that, they onely, who play vpon the stage for gaine sake, are infamous: but the Praetor meant that they, who play without gaine, are infamous also, even generally all stage-players; as it is apparant by S. Au­stin and Livie: therefore Ulpian misseth in expounding the Prae­tors edict. And, I trust, an older writer may be cited to correct a younger, of whom he could not dreame: or else your selfe doe evill to cite Ulpian against me, of whom hee could not dreame you wote well. Though S. Austin also might haue dreamed of Vlpian, Vlpian li­ved about two hundred yeares before S. Aust. Lam­prid. Alexan­dro Sever. Euseb. Chro. for ought that I know. But you saye farder that S. Austin and Livie are to bee vnderstoode against Histriones: and so their autorities serve not to this of your text. Wherein I must confesse I vnderstand not what you meane. For I can not imagin you should bee so absurd as to say that they speake not against players on stage, because they speake a­gainst Histriones. Onely as Diog. La [...]. in Socr. Socrates; beeing asked what hee thought of a certaine booke of Heraclitus, aunswered, Those things which I vnderstood in it are excellent, and so, I thinke, are those to which I vnderstood not: semblably may I say touching these branches and partes of your reply, that what I vnderstand therein maketh nothing against the point that I did conclude by Gothofredus; no more, I thinke, doeth that which I vnder­stand not. Nay, I say too litle when I say I thinke. For seeing hi­striones signifieth stage-players; & stage-players are such as come Qui artis lu­dicrae pro­nuntiandive causa in sce­nam prodie­rit. vpon the stage to play or pronounce, whom the Praetoris verba dicunt. l. 1. Ait Prae­tor. l. 2 D. de his qui not. infam. Praetor spea­keth of: I know, that what soeuer your meaning be therein, it can haue no force to ouerthrow that wich I concluded by Go­thofredus. So this with the former distinctionlesse distinction of a sense he meant not, being all the answer that you make to him: the rest of my authorities and examples all are so farre from beeing answered by him, that your answerlesse answer doth rather leaue both him and them as vnanswerable. But you go forward, and, to ouerthrow them both an other way, you deny that the Romans euer iudged Omnes scenicos infa­mes. [Page 68] And why? Because playes (say you) were sometime insti­tuted, as in a common plague, ad placandos Deos, and were pro­uided by great officers of the common treasure: and so they are referred ad religionem & deuotionem. Sometime they were sett out at the priuat cost of them that sued to the people for great of­fices, or generally for the honor and solace of the citie: and so they are referred to magnificence. For magnificentia is a goodly ver­tue, & versatur circa sumptus amplos, non turpes aut infames, because it is a vertue, but circa quaecunque in Rempublicam ho­nestae laudis studio conferuntur: among the which Ethicor. lib. 4. cap. 5. Aristotle reckeneth Ludos splendidè facere. Neither is it to be thought that Aesopus & Roscius, being both men of that fame, favour, wealth, and entire familiarity with the best and wisest in their times, were reputed as infamous persons. What should I speake of so many Circi, Theatra, Amphitheatra, builded by the greatest and bra­vest Romās with so huge charge & sumptuousnes? Which though they were once vpon fowle abuses, or some other occasion, as you write, overthrowne by the Romans themselues: yet even those playes for which they were abolished were ex eo genere of whom they might haue said (as Histor. lib. 1 Tacitus doeth of Astrologers) quod in civitate nostra, & vetabitur semper, & retinebitur. Howsoever; I can not thinke that either they would haue suffered such things to bee done at all, if they had iudged them evill: or to be performed by infamous persons, being matters of that state and magnificence, and, as they thought, of that devotion and necessitie. Thus farre your owne wordes. In which, to shew that you doe not deny without cause that the Romans ever iudged all stage-players to be infamous, you make two proofes thereof: one, that Aesopus & Roscius were not reputed as infamous persons; an other, that the Romans would not haue suffered such things to be perfourmed by infamous persons, being matters of great state & magnificence, and; as they thought, of great devotion and necessitie. Such pro­position, such proofes. The proposition savouring of a strange boldnes (to vse no harder terme) that you, who scarse are four­tie yeares old, if yet fourtie, in a questiō of fact, of a thing done fifteene, sixteene, or seuenteene hundred yeares ago, which a number of witnesses, that liued the same time, men of good [Page 69] credit, affirme to haue bene doon, should presume to saye, I deny that it was done. For Tullie reporteth that the Romans counting all kindes of stage-playes shamefull and dishonest, did iudge accordingly of the players. Nepos, Laberius, Livie, Iuve­nall, Tacitus, the rest, whom I cited, both of the learned sort, and of the common people, doe testifie the same. Neither can you denie but their wordes alleadged by me, doe clearlie argue that they iudged thus of free players also, not onely of players for gaine. Yet you harden your face to say against them all: I denie that the Romans ever iudged all stage-players to bee infa­mous. Yea, for proofe hereof you produce two reasons, which imply that they thought no stageplayers infamous, no not players for gaine: and so you avouch an evident vntrueth a­gainst your owne confession, your owne conscience. For Rosci­us and Aesopus played for gaine: as Natur. hist. lib. 7. cap. 39 & lib. 10. cap. 51. Plinie and Saturn. lib. 3. cap. 14. Macrobius shew. Their wealth, which you mētion, was gottē by that trade. Now your text of D. de his qui not infam. l. 2. §. ait Prae­tor. Ulpian with Pegasus and Nerva, sayeth that all who play for gaine, are infamous; as you confessed be­fore; adding that you sawe no cause to mislike it, lesse durst dispute against it. Wherefore in saying that Aesopus and Roscius were not reputed as infamous persons, your owne mouth and heart cōdemne you of gain saying an vndoubted trueth. Much more when you inferre the same of other stage-players, euen of the rascalls, the most vile among them, in the reason following. For although the fame, the favour, the wealth of Roscius and Aesopus, should no more haue mooved you to washe away all staine from their credit, then from Lactant. di­uin. instit lib. 1. cap. 20. Flora and Athenaeus dignolophist. lib. 13. Phryne, who were whoores of great fame, favour, wealth: yet their familia­ritie with the best and wisest might probably perswade you, that they were not reputed as infamous persons. Howbeit, had you weighed, how Tullie. the best and wisest so wel acquainted with them, had shewed in Roscius. one of thē, that Orat. pro Q. Roscio co­maed. other things brought him to such estimation, his Orat. pro P. Quintio. stage-playing was some staine vnto him: you should haue perceyued that in this respect their credit might bee tainted, notwithstanding the acquaintance, whereto, by meanes of other partes approoved in them, they grew in processe of time with the best and wisest. But your next [Page 70] reason saith as much for the vilest and most beastlie stageplay­ers, as for Aesopus and Roscius. For in certaine playes, called Ludi Flora­les Ovid. Fa­stor. libro 5. Valer. Max. lib 2 cap. 10 the playes of Flora, the Mimae, as they are ter­med by Vale rius Maxim.; turba mere­tricia, by Oui. meretrices, quae mimo­r [...]m fungun­tur officio, by Lactantius. lib. 1 cap. 20 players were not men, but wemen, and those lewde ones, professed whoores and strumpers: which, besides all wanton filthines of words, did shew them selues na­ked also to the people, and vsed most shamefull motions and gestures. These playes were instituted (to vse your own words) ad placandos Deos, Cic in ver. li. 5. Plin. nat. hist. lib. 18. cap. 29. that Flora, as the Goddesse of flowers, might bee entreated not to hurt the corne, nor any thing that bloweth and blossemeth: and so they are referred ad religionem & devotionem. The Aediles. Cic. de offic. lib. 2 Mamerco, ho mini ditissi­mo, praeter­missio aedili­tatis consula­tus repulsam attulit. officers that had the charge to set them out, did sett them out at their private cost, to gett the peoples favour for the obtaining of greater offices: and so they are re­ferred to magnificence. The Theatra Sca­uri, Curionis, Pompeii. Pli. nat. hist. lib. 36. cap. 15. Plutareh. vit. Pomp. tertul­lian. de spect. cap. 10. stages and theaters, wherein men behold them, were builded by the greatest and bravest Romans with huge charge and sumptuousnes: Wherefore sith the Ro­mans would not haue suffered such things to bee perfourmed by infamous persons, being matters of great state and magnifi­cence, and, as they thought, of great devotion and necessitie: it foloweth, by your reason, that they did not iudge professed whoores and strumpets to be infamous persons. Now, if this consequent touching whoores bee false, as your D. de cōdict. ob turp. vel injust. caus. l. 4. §. Sed quid D. de ritu▪ nupt. l. 41. law sheweth it is: then is the consequution of your reason faulty. Which your self may see by the other branch thereof, avouched ioynt­lie, to weet, that the Romans would not haue suffered such things to be done at all, if they had iudged them evill: and by him, whose sentence, that it is a vertue Ludos splen­didè facere. to sett out playes bravelie, you adde for the gracing and countenancing of your reason, I meane, even by Aristotle. For he, in reckening it among magnificent actions [...] if any where men thinke they ought to sett out playes bravelie (so he qualifieth his sentēce with a circūstance of mo­ment omitted by you in alleaging it,) respecteth the opinions and customes of the Grecians: who thought it an honorable thing to be at charges with furnishing and decking companies of Musicians, of Dansers, of Players, in their solemne feastes, & vsuall processions celebrated to their Gods. As among the A­thenians, for example sake, Orat. in Mi­diam. Demosthenes, when no man of [Page 71] his tribe was willing to beare the charge thereof, did promise of his owne accorde that he [...] would beare it, and therevppon provided golden crownes and costlie garments for a companie Ev [...] in the feast of Bacchus. This feast Herodot. Euterpe. [...]. Athenaeus dipnos. lib. 14 [...] & [...], Cle▪ Alexandr. ad hort. ad gent. Arnob. ad­vers. gent. lib. 5. had as filthie matters re­presented, though by an other sexe, in the shewes & playes be­longing thervnto, as that of Flora had. Yet, such was the bru­tish superstition of Heathens, that Politicor. lib. 7. cap. ult. Aristotle him selfe, one of the best among them, banishing all vnseemely speeches and spectacles out of his commō wealth, [...]. excepteth such as these, done in the honour of their Gods, according to their lawe, Aristot. de poëtica. which [...]. allowed that beastlinesse in many cities then. In like sort the Romans, albeit they iudged the things to be evil which the players did in the feast of Flora, so euill that Valer. Max. lib. 2. cap 10 Seneca epist. 98. the refuse & dregges of the people durst not for shame desire to haue the fight there of while Cato was present: yet did they allow; and by publike order provide for the dooing of them, Quo ve ma­lo mentem concussa? ti­more Deorū. Horat. satyr. lib. 2. sat 3. because they thought them pleasant to their divelish Goddesse, whose wrath­full plagues they feared, if they should omitt them. And thus, for the rest of their playes also, whether made to pacifie Ludi Mega­lenses. Liui. lib. 29. & 34. Aug de ciu. Dei lib. 2. cap. 4. the mother of their Gods, or Ludi Romani, in honorem Iovis, Iunonis, & Minervae: ludi Apollinares, &c. Cic. in Verr. li. 5. Livi. li. 27. [...]1. &c. any of her childrē, they thought it a necessarie devotion to sett them out, a statelie magnificence to sett them out bravelie; yet did they repute the players thereof infamous, as Tullie, Livie, the Praetor, Vlpian, all consent; though withall discrediting thereby both Gods and playes, as De civ. Dei. lib. 2. cap. 13. Austin and De spectaculis, cap. 22. Tertullian note. How much the more strange doeth your boldnes seeme, not onelie to pronounce that the Romans would not have suffered such things to be performed by infamous persons; but to say, as bringing a proofe thereof too, that you can not thinke it, I can not thinke that they would haue suffered it. And can you thinke that this is a seemely thing, or tolerable, in a matter of fact, prooved by the vniforme consent of so many and so worthy witnesses, for you to contra­dict it with these kindes of speeches: I deny that the Romans ever iudged all stage players to be infamous; It is not to be thought that they deemed Aesopus and Roscius infamous; I can not think [Page 72] that they would haue suffered their playes to be performed by men infamous? Can you thinke without blushing, how the ancient Fathers conclude by the confession of the Romans themselues, Tertullian Quanta con­fessio est ma­lae rei, quarū actores cùm acceptissimi sint, sine nota non sunt. one, that playes are evill, because the Praetor noted the play­ers with infamie; an S. Augustin. Theatricae il­lius turpitudi­nis qua frōte notatur ac­tor, si adora­tur exactor? Proponūt Grae ci; Si D [...] tales colendi sunt, profectò etiā tales homi­nes hono­randi sunt. Assumunt Ro mani: Sed nullo modo tales homi­nes honorādi sunt. Conclu­dunt Christi­ani; Nullo i­gitur modo Dii tales co­lendi sunt. other, that such Gods should not bee worshipped, because such men were counted infamous who per­fourmed the playes that they required: and you, of the cōtrarie, denie that such men were coūted infamous by the Romans, or noted by the Praetor; a thing, that no Heathen, amongest all their adversaries (whom I haue ever read of) durst? Can you thinke your students of Christ-church, and others, with whom you haue communicated this reply of yours, to be so weak eye­sighted, that they perceiue not, that your selfe, in citing & ap­plying Tacitus his wordes touching Astrologers to the point in question, doe confute your selfe, as if God had bereft you al­most of common sense, when you went about it? For if you thinke that the Romans would retaine Astrologers alwayes in their citie, yet forbid them alwayes: can you not think that they would haue suffered such things to bee done at all, if they had iudged thē evill? And if you thinke playes to be of that kinde, of which they might haue saide as Tacitus doth of Astrologers: can you thinke that they who Tacit. annal. li. 2 Vlpian. li. 7. de offic. Procon. coll. leg. Mos. & Roman. C de malef. & ma­them. li. 5. iudged Astrologers worthie of greater punishment, would haue iudged players worthie a note of infamie? I would to God you could thinke, & think vpō your bedde (as the Psal. 4. ver. 4 Prophet exhorteth) of your offense herein, your ver. 2. loving of vanitie, your seeking of lyes. Then would you bee still, and quietlie acknowledge that by Tullie, Nepos, Laberi­us, Livie, Iuvenal, and other auncient Romans, stage-players were taken to bee infamous persons, euen all, whether they played freelie, or for gaine: and therefore not onely the hire­linges, but the free too, are comprised and noted in the Praetors wordes. Then would you rather observe in the reading of your Ad paragr. Ait Praetor. lib 2. D. de his qui not. infam. Glossa communis, that though certaine lawiers tooke the Prae­tor otherwise, yet certaine tooke him so as well as Gothofredus. Then would you devise more and better reasons for the gene­rall doctrine out of C. de spect. & scenicis. Iustinians Code, and Lib 15. cod. Theod. tit. 7. Theodosius both, then now for the favourable part of your distinctō you did out [Page 73] of Iustinianus; omitting and neglecting that, in De spectac. & sceni. li. 4. the same ti­tle, whence that seelie single reason was inforced, stage-players are termed Vilem histri­onem. vile, Inhonestas personas. vnhonest persons, without all distinction.

It may bee that your cōscience felt some pricke hereof; or at least your knowledge informed you that this would not holde water. Else, why adioyne you a new point of defense, that the actors of your playes are no stage-players? Whereas Epilo. Vlys. red respon. ad Mom. before your onely answere to this point was, that you played freely: nor needed there more in your desire to bee short (which you pretend often) if you thought it certaine the lawe comprised not free players. But what soeuer you thought, when you re­solved of having two stringes vnto your bowe: this newe string is worse a great deale then the old was; the hempe is naught whereof you made it. For whereas you denie; that you, who come on the stage once in a yeare, or two, in seauen, or in tenne, or sometime twentie yeares, are to be termed Scenici, o [...] histriones. stage-players; as he is not a wrastler that sometime to proove his strength, trieth for a fall or two; nor he a fenser, that sometime taketh vp the cudgells to play a venny: First make these similitudes perfitt with ad­ding In arenam. D. de postu­lando li. 1. §. removet. D. de accusa­tionib. li. 4. that which answereth to In scenam. the stage, that they bee not similia dissimilia, (as De finib. l. 4 Tullie calleth them,) and then hee is a Athleta C. deathle. l. [...]. wrastler who to proove his strength on that stage, as it were, doeth trie for a fall or two; and a Gladiator. Cic. Philipp. 7. Ovid. Trist li. 2. Quintil. declamat. 9. Fenser likewise, who com­meth once thither, though he neuer come againe; and so are they stage-players, who play vpon the stage once in a yeare or two. Next, the law doeth cutt off all strife about the name, by noting him with infamie, Qui in sce­nam prodie­rit. who commeth on the stage to play, or pronounce. So that when you acknowledge that yours come on the stage to this intent and ende, you shewe that both you wrangle and trifle in denying they are to be termed stage-play­ers. As for that you adde, that you doe differ from them, whom I mentioned, in the maner of your playing, in the ende, effectes, & other circumstances, as in the examination of mine exaples shall appeare; ‘the which as I haue alleaged to illustrate mine au­thorities, as being the men whom they properly speak against; so if you shew that you are not to be likened to them, neyther mine authorities, nor mine examples shall touch you:’ the drift [Page 74] of your speech is to proove, even for the thing too, that you are cleare from that which the lawe disgraceth; but with what si­newes of arguments you doe it, I will (by a more perfitt simili­tude thē yours were) endevour to make plaine vnto you: Iul. Capitoli. [...] Maximi­ [...]s duobus. Ma­ximinus, a savage Emperour, a man of a huge, tall, and strong body, tooke a most sottish and proude conceit thereof that he could not be killed. Wherevpon a certaine man said in his pre­sence; He that can not be killed by one, is killed by many: The Elephant is great; yet is he killed: The Lion is strong; yet is hee killed: The Tyger is swift; yet is he killed: Beware of many ioy­ned, if single ones you feare not.

The autour of this speech meant to reason thus, by way of a syllogisme: Every living creature may be killed: Maximi­nus the Emperour is a living creature: Therefore hee may bee killed. And least Maximinus through his proud conceit should obiect against it, that every living creature, who could be overmatched by one, might be killed; but it was impossi­ble for any one to match him: the autour saide, that such as could not be killed by one, might by many; adding for proof there­of that Elephants, Lions, Tigers, bee they never so great, strong, and swift, are killed. Here suppose that he had withall, in hope of better perswading Maximinus, tolde him that De nat. Deor. lib. 3. Tullie saith all living creatures may bee killed: which to bee true in all abso­lutely and simply, yea even such as no one can lightly over­match, De offic. li. 2 Tullie sheweth farder; and De Venat. Xenophon, Lib. 5. Polybius, Lib. 21. & 24 Livie, Nat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 6. 7. 16. & 17. Plinie, Conjugalib. praecep. & vi­ta Pompeii. Plutarch, doe witnesse by sundry stories of those beasts. Now, if Maximinus had given ea [...]e thereto, and answered that him selfe did differ from those beasts in the maner of his strength, in the end, effectes, and other circum­stances, as it should appeare in examination of the examples; which as the man had cited to illustrate his autorities, as being the creatures whom they properly speake of, so if Maximinus had shewed that he was not to be likened to thē neither the au­torities, nor the examples should touch him; what should the felow haue done, who did make that argument? Should hee haue denyed that Maximinus differed from Elephants, Lions, Tigers, in the maner of his strength, and the rest of your cir­cumstances? [Page 75] How could he? when he might haue bene con­trolled straight by Maximinus saying: They haue no man to their subiects: I rule the whole world; they want helpes to shield them from wounds; I weare armour: they can holde no swordes, or other weapons; I can: they are of low stature; I am eleven foote high. Should he haue graunted that because it appeareth by those and the like differences, that Maximinus was not such a living creature as those beasts were, therefore he was no living creature: nether could hee be touched either by the ex­amples or by the autorities? That had bene to bewray either feare, or ignorance, and to betray the truth: sith the autorities reached to the thing in generall; and so the examples brought to illustrate them did touch Maximinus also by consequent. Then belike, albeit the differences, that he might alleage a­gainst the autours reason had bene true all, yet had they all bin idle; as neither disprooving the major, nor the minor, whereof the conclusion doeth necessarily follow. This is the condition and state of your differences, M ^r. D. Gager; they are not all true, and they are all idle. They are not all true. Nay, is there any of them not vntrue in part? Doutlesse not the first: wherein you affirme that you differ from them altogether in furniture, & maner of setting out playes: they did it with excessiue charge: you thriftily, warily, and almost beggerly. For, I hope, as Irus came beggerly in with you; so Horace shew eth that they ought; de ar▪ te poetica: & that they had wherew ^t to doe it; Epist. 7. lib. 1 Vilia vendē ­tem tunicato scruta popel­lo. they would haue clothed him in ragges too, and could: and such clokes as they vsed to borow for brave wooers, cost Chlamydes Lucullus, vt aiunt, Si pos­set centum scenae prae­bere rogatus, Qui possum tot? ait; tamē & quaeram, & quot habebo Mittam. post paulo scribit scribit sibi millia quin­que esse domi chlamydum: partem, vel tolleret om­nes. Horat. epistolar. li. 1 ep. 6. them no more the fetching, then yours out of the revils: and excesse in charges is measured by abilitie, as Ethicor. lib. 4. ca. 1. aut 2. Aristotle sheweth; the Mark 12. 4 [...]. widow giving two mites, gaue more then all the rest: and you in spending pence might be more ex­cessiue then they in spending poundes. Not the second diffe­rence, touching the maner of action; whereof you say that they acted their playes in an other sort then you doe, or can or well know how: but so exquisitly and carefully, that you may seeme compared with them either for skill, or diligence, rather Recitare, which I doe not dislike, then Agere. For other sort of playing you fansie without ground, saying you know not what of thinges perfourmed you know not how: I weene you know not, neither [Page 76] why they who played vnwilling and had small list to learne it; should bee more skilfull and diligent then yours: sure if yours should seeme rather recitare, which I mislike not, then agere; none of yours played in Rivalib. drunken, nor Vlyss red. daunsed, nor Scabellū ja­cit Antinous Act 2. hurled footestooles, nor Riv. Vlyss. red. & Hip­polyt. put on wemens raiment. Not the third dif­ference, which you set in this, that they came on the stage of a lewde, vast, dssolute, wicked, impudent, prodigall, monstrous hu­mour; you contrarywise doe it to sundry good intents, as namely (for example) to conforme your youth to convenient action. For neither came they all with such a disposition; witnesse is Labe­rius, witnesses are others alleaged out of Dio; so that you speake herein as if Maximinus had said that those beasts, which the felow mentioned, are of low stature, a thing vntrue in Oppian. de venat. lib 2 Aeliā. de hist. anim. l. 12. c. 8 Lud. Verto man navigat lib. 4 cap. 10. Petr. Gillius elephanti de­script cap 6. Ele phants: noris it more true that you frame your youth to convenient action, framing some of them to the action of wooers, some of knaves, some of parasites, some of clownes, some of drunkards, some of bragging souldiers, or of the like to these, then that Iul. Capitol. in Maximin. duob. Erat magnitudine tanta, ut octo pedes digito videretur e­gressus. Maximinus was eleven foote high. Not the fourth difference, wherein (to make a farder profit of the circumstance that before you vrged against the name of stage-players) you say that they frequented the stage; you doe it seldom, sometime not in seven, ten or twenty yeares. For how doe you proove that they whom Iuvenal, Tacitus, Dio note, frequen­ted it more then some of yours haue? and Laberius did it but once in Ego bis tri­cenis annis actis sine no­ta, Eques Ro manus è lare e gressus meo Domum re­vertar mi­mus. Macro. Saturn. lib. 2 cap. 7. three score years, who yet both called himself a stage-player for that doeing, and counted it a staine vnto him. The fifth offendeth lesse, affirming that they did it on the publike theater not of the citie onely, but of the whole world: you in a pri­vat house, and to a few, men of vnderstanding. Yet looke by what reason you name the Roman theater, the theater of the whole worlde, your should be the theater of England, France, and Ireland, if not of whole Europe: and why say you that you did it to men of vnderstanding? as if in Rome wemen also had bene present who might behold the lusty motions of the play­ers, and vnderstand not what they spake; At siqua for­san iuueni vellicet togā, Quid (que) hic agatur scire discupiat ni­mis, &c. And Rogare ve­niam à foemi nis non est opus. Prolog. & epilog. in Hippolytum none such on your stage. In the sixth you lavish more then in the fourth, saying that they were men growne, one of them three score yeares olde, [Page 77] Knights, of noble houses, Patricii, & one of them Emperour of the world: in you being young men, boyes, poore Scholers, all these things are quite contrary. For, touching age, among Non nobili­tas cuiquam, non aetas, aut acti honores impedimen­to, quo mi­nus Graeci La­tiniue histri­onis artem exercerent. Tacit. annal. lib. 14. them who were compelled by Nero to become stage-players, the stories, which I cited, doe record (quite contrary to your quite contrary) that there were not onely [...]. men growne, and [...] olde, but young too; and some of your players came on the stage as olde as Sueton. Ne­ron. cap. 8. & 11. Tacit. annal. lib. 13 & 14. Nero, your great Emperour: touching wealth, the beggerie of those needy squiers, whom out of Iuvenal and Ta­citus I specified, hath small contrarietie vnto poore scholers state: touching birth, and gentrie, you forgott your self, when, in saying elswhere, The gentleman that played Ulysses, and set­ting 8 [...]. Dio Neron▪ in Xiphilin. epit. F. S. Actor. Vlyssis ego. his verses before your booke, you shewed that your play­ers are not quite contrarie to Patricii; vnlesse you thinke so meanlie of his name, and stocke, that a Fumosos e­quitum cum dictatore ma­gistros-Iuve­nal. satyr. 8. smokie Lentulus, or Fabius, or Mamercus, doeth passe it in nobilitie; yea, though it haue learning and Scholership ioyned with it; neither onely passe it, but passe it so farre, that not content to make it differ in degree, you make it quite contrarie, as if it were of the basest of the rascalitie. And seeing these things, specially this last point, wherein you must beare with me, if farthermore being taught by Epistolar. ad familiar. lib. 3. epi. 7. Tullie, that Lentulitas, what shall I terme it? the Lentulus­nes of noble parentage is Etiam ne tu has in eptias, vllam App [...]e­tatem, aut Lentulitatem valere apud me plus, quā ornamenta virtutis exi­stimas? nothing in comparison of vertue; nay, being taught by him, whom Tullies Prou. 20. 27. Ioh. 1. 9. light came from, even by the Iam. 1. 17. Father of lightes, that Act. 17. 11. they are most noble who most excell in godlines and graces of the spirit, I account all Christian Scholers and Studentes, as good and noble gentlemen, as the Heathen Lentuli; but seeing these differences doe square so frō the trueth: the rest, which are the same, enlarged and applyed to particular comparisons of certaine of your players with cer­taine of theirs, must needs be enroled in the same predicament. Howbeit you doe vtter them in such a Quintilian. lib. 9. cap. 2. Interrogamꝰ, quod negari non possit. sort, as if you did not onely meane to haue it though, that there is lesse resemblance, and therfore greater difference betwene their players & yours, whom I notwithstanding had compared as like: but also that I should be forced to acknowledge it by mine own confession, and graunt that I was wonderfully overseene therein. For you [Page 78] aske of me (to sett downe your owne wordes:) Who ever would resemble our Melantho with your Laureolus? the one represen­ted by an ingenuous boy, and for her lewdnes imagined to bee hanged within: the other acted by Lentulus, a man nobly descen­ded, expressing perhaps openly on the stage the same punishment. What likenes is there betwene our young men, putting on the per­sons of Antinous, and the rest of Penelopes wooers: and betwene gentlemen of the noble race of Fabius, in their owne persons, not so much counterfeiting others, as expressing their own scurrilities? Such as our Antinous and the rest of the wooers can not be iustly charged with: no not our Irus, or Vlysses. Againe, what resem­blance is there betweene our Hippodamia onely singing, Eurima­chus onely saying, Phemius both singing and saying, all three re­presented by such as they were: and betwene Nero, playing mens, wemens, and minstrels parts vpon the stage in Rome? Beholde A marvelous case, that I should compare and resemble players together so absurdly, as no man would ever haue done besides me: and that I should affirme them to bee like one an other, betwene whom there is no likenes, no resemblance, as your sharpe vrging doeth emply. But perhaps your stomake is the more egre against my comparisons, because of our dissension about the stage and playes. The partie, that spake in the pre­sence of Maximinus, spake In theatro. vpon the stage, and was a Scurra mi­mus. Iul. Ca­pitolin. In whom it is printed, mi­nus: by error, for mimus, as I take it. player himselfe: it may be you would haue vsed him more gentlie. For else, had you bene there, and loved Maximinus you might (which I marvell if you thinke not absurd) haue aunswered thus in his behalfe. Who ever would resemble Maximinus to an Elephant? the one, a man well featured, and feeding very daintily within doores in his palace: the other a beast, a Plin. nat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 10. & li. 11. cap. 39. thicke skinne, having a So is his pro­boscis termed by Aristotle. de hist. ani lib. 2. cap. 1. and by Op­pian, de ve­nat. lib. 2. nose an Or two yardes, some of them, with the advan­tage. Petr. Gillius eleph. descript. cap. 5. & 6. ell long, and Iob. 40. 15. eating grasse perhaps without doores on the mountaines. What likenes is there betwene him, our Emperour, a most gratious personage, and of sweete con­ditions: and betweene a Tigre, a Virg. Geor. lib. 2. Ouid. epist. 10. cruell savage beast, wearing Plini. natur. hist. lib. 8. cap. 17. Op­pian. de ve­nat. li. 1. & 3. heare of sundry coolours, speckled, spotty? Such as our Emperour hath none vpon his body: no, nor the like pawes, or [...]. Oppian. lib. 3. de venat. taile. Againe what resemblance is there betweene him, excelling in all three things, greatnes, strength, and swiftnes: & betwene an Elephant, [Page 79] great and strong onely; a Tigre, strong and swift; a Lion having litle to trust to, beside strength? Thinke you that you had spoken with any graine of salt, M ^r. D. Gager, if you had spoken thus? Though I haue disadvantaged my self in this similitude: because both your Melantho was a great deale liker to Iuve­nals Laureolus, your wooers and the rest to those degenerat gentlemen, then Maximinus was to beastes: and I haue scarse put one false difference in mine, of Maximinus sweete con­ditions; you haue put many in yours. For, to passe over the ingenuousnes of the boy that represented Melantho, opposed to the noblenes of Lentulus who did act Laureolus, the vnlikenes whereof in noblenes, and acting, is disprooved already; chiefly sith Nullum simi le est idem, you know. thinges that are not the same, may bee like: first, what proofe haue you, that The gentle­men of noble houses which Dio specifi­eth: and [...] among them namely. they, whom Iuvenal noted vnder the name of Fabii, did not so much counterfeit others, which your wooers did, as expresse their owne scurrilities? When contrari­wise some of them would haue hid their faces with [...]. Dio Neron. visours, for shame, that they might not be knowne, as counting the infamie thereof worse then death: a very great presumption, that they did abhorre from expressing their own scurrilities on the stage, whom it greeved so much to come on the stage at all.

Next, what wrong is it to charge your Antinous, and other of the whoores, with such scurrilities, as theirs? were not the Iuvenal. sat. 8. Sueton Ner cap. 2 [...]. Dio Ner. playes that they played made of like arguments, in like sort, to yours? Is not Antinous sett foorth by Odyss. li. 17. 18. 20. 21. & 22. Homer, as a mala­pert Sponsi Pe­nelopae ne­bulones. knave? to speake in Epist. lib. 1. ep. 3. Horaces phrase, of him and his complices. Doe Epist. ad Criticum. you not followe Homer, and expresse Anti­nous with the rest accordinglie, both in their misbehaviour of wordes & of deedes? Thirdlie, doe you know what is meant in Iuvenal by planipedes Fabios, when I having said that the race of Fabius resembled & counterfaited such base ridiculous things as are expressed in Irus, you denie that hee may bee iustlie char­ged with such? And if you know that they, who were termed Diomedes gramma Iul. Scalig poeti. lib. 1. cap. 10 planipedes, counterfaited such things as Macr. Satur. lib 2. cap. 7. Laberius did when he put on the person of a bondslaue whipped: are you not asha­med to deny that such are expressed in Irus, a begger buffeted, throwne down, and Pedibus Irū extrahit, ri­dentibus pro­cis Vlyss. red. act. 2. haled out by the feete, the wooers laugh­ing [Page 80] thereat? Finally, why are not the blowes, in your tragedie, given to Vlysses, like the Mamercorū alapas. Mamercians whirrets that Iuvenal speaketh of? you thinke them not so badde. I thinke them worse rather. For whirrets, that hee speaketh of, were given with the hande. Your Ulysses is Vylssem cal­ce ferit. strooken with Melanthius heele, and Scabellum jacit. with Antinous foote-stoole: vnlesse Antinous hur­ling it did misse the marke, and played not his part as you ap­pointed him out of [...] dys. li. 17. Homer. Thus are your differences all vntrue, in part: in whole, a number of them. But suppose they were true. Yet are they all idle: because, as in the felowes speech to Maximinus, the maior being prooved that all living crea­tures may bee killed, whether one or many bee able to surprise them; the minor apparant, that hee was a living creature; the conclusion folowed, notwithstanding whatsoever differences betweene him, and them, whose examples were brought to proove the maior: likewise in my reason, the maior being proo­ved, that all stage-players are infamous by the civill law, whether they play for gaine, or freely; the minor apparant, that they who play your playes on the stage, are stage-players; the conclusion foloweth, notwithstanding whatsoever differences betweene yours, and them whose examples for proof of the maior I pro­duced. Nay, I say farder, that as some true differences betwene Maximinus, and the beastes, doe sharpen the edge of the con­clusion against him; for if Pli. nat. hist. lib. 8. cap. 4. Viribus, mag­nitudine, ve­locitate prae­stantiores. greater, stronger, and swifter crea­tures are killed, how much more might he be? so for you to be stage-players it is more shamefull then for the olde Romans, sith they were Eph. 4. 18. ignorant, 2. Cor. 4. 4. infidels, Ephe. 2. 12. without God in the world; you are Scholers, Christians, chosen to be trained vp vnto the Ministerie; and Luk. 12. 48. vnto whom much is committed, the more shall be required of him; Luk 7. 47. they who haue many sinnes forgiven them, should loue much; it is a great offence Amos. 2. 1 [...]. to giue the Nazarites wine to drinke, though to 1. Tim. 5. 23 drinke wine be not vnlawfull. Wherefore that of Terence wherewith you conclude, saying that you thinke it was a fowle shame for noble men and Nero to play, but to play noble men or Nero it is no shame for you; as Ter. Adelph. act. 5. scen. 3. hee saith in the Comedie, Duo quum idem faciunt, saepe, vt possis di­cere, Hoc liceti mpunè facere huic, illi non licet; Non quòd dissi­milis [Page 81] res sit, sed quòd is qui facit: although you straiten the point (whether for shame, or for the figure?) when you speake of playing noble men and Nero, your purpose being to iustifie the playing of the Rivalib. basest, drunkards, & Vlyss red. whooers too; but if Te­rences saying would fitt the point in question, the vse thereof must bee to proove that they might lawfully come on the stage, you may not. The truth is that it cannot bee applyed hereto, because L. 1. D. de his qui not. infa. the law speaketh generally of stage-players, as it doeth of bawdes, of theeves, with the like; and common sense doeth teach vs, that Vbi lex non distinguit, nec nos distingue­re debemus. Gloss ad li. [...]. D de Public. in rem act. li. 1. §. quod autem. D. de aleatoribus. wee may not distinguish where the lawe distin­guisheth not. Else, if I should say that by the same law our En­glish theeves, who robbe on Gaddes hill, are infamous; one of their abbetters might aunswer, No not so: for the Law speaketh of such as Asc. Paedia. in Cic. orat. pro Aem. Scaur. Lucius Tubulus, men of wealth and state, who rob­bed the whole worlde repairing vnto Rome; not of poore good felowes that robbe a few Kentish men travailing to Graves-end: and I thinke it was a fowle shame for rich men and Tubulus to robbe; but to robbe riche men and Tubulus, it is no shame for vs: as he saith in the Comedie, that oftentimes, you may say, when two men doe the same thing, the one is not blameworthy for it, the other is, not as if there were difference in the thing it selfe, but in the man that doeth it. Which Comicall sentēce, though it might be as well applied by Iustice Graybeard to the excuse of theft in poore men, as by Terences Non est fla­gitium (mihi crede) ado­lescentulum scortari. Act. 1. scen. 2. Mitio it is to the excuse of whoordom in a young man; yet were it vniustly applied there­vnto: because the law condemning theft in whomsoever with­out respect of persons, bee they rich or poore, doeth count it none of those things which fall within the compasse of Te­rences Saepe. Duo quum idem faciunt, saepe ctc. oftentimes. So considering, stage-players are spoken of in like sort, as theeves, by the law: you see how Terences say­ing may be applied vnto them. But if we might apply it vnto them iustly, wee must inferre thereof that it was no shame for Nero & his mates to come on the stage, for you it is: as S. Paul commandeth vs 1. Cor. 5. [...] not to eate with any that is called a brother, if he be a fornicatour; which, ver. 10 with an infidell committing the same filthines, he doeth not forbid. And thus while you ende­vour to vnwind your selfe out of the nett of ignominie and in­famie [Page 82] cast vpon you by the civill lawe, you are bound faster in it: to the fulfilling of that proverbe, which I wish you had marked in the Ter. Phorm. act. 1. scen. 2. Comedie rather, if not in the Act. 9. 5. Scripture, It is hard to kicke against prickes.

In the second head, to a reason drawn out of the law of God for the reproofe of stage-playes as now you handle it, denying that you made it to proove that men may lawfully put on we­mens raiment therein, as I tooke it; though howe iust cause I had to take it so, I haue declared; but vnto this reason groun­ded on the Deut. 22. 5. law of God in Deuteronomie, Whatsoever man doeth put on womans raiment, he is abominable to the Lord; But men did put on wemens raiment in your playes; you must ac­knowledge therefore that you were iustly blamed: you reply in like sort as vnto the former of the civill law; first, that the pro­hibition of men to weare wemens rayment is not generall, but toucheth certaine cases onely; next, that your players did not weare wemens raiment. And because in treating of the pro­hibition I shewed out of the Scriptures, that it doeth belong not to the ceremoniall law, but to the morall; and no parte of the morall law may bee transgressed, no, not for the saving of honour, wealth, or life: my proofes hereof beeing so cleere, strong, and pregnant, that you durst not deny the thing to bee prooved, you moue a dout, as your terme is, out of wordes of mine; in deede you reason thus against it. I pray you giue mee leaue to propose my contrary dout. The morall law, as you truely say, is the law of loue and charitie; to the which wheresoever the ceremonial law is repugnant, there it giveth place to the morall. The morall law therefore is never contrarie to loue and charitie, in commanding or forbidding any thing. But the place of Deutero nomie, being taken strictly, absolutely, and in the rigor of the let­ter, may sometimes hinder the actions of loue and charitie, both towards our selves and others; as in those cases, which both you and I propose. Ergo in that strictnes it belongeth rather to the law ceremoniall, though the equitie thereof pertaineth to the law mo­rall, and so it is perpetually and simply to bee observed. Nowe, I haue given you leaue to propose your contrary dout. I pray you giue me leaue to propose my contrary question. In the [Page 83] same booke of Deuteronomie it is written, Deut. 5. 17. Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adulterie. These precepts beeing taken strictly, absolutely, and in the rigor of the letter, may sometimes hinder the actions of loue and charitie, both towardes our selves and others; as appeereth by the example of Ioseph, and of Da­vid: Ioseph, who Gen. 39. 20. lost his libertie and put his life in hazard, be­cause verse. 12. he refused to commit adulterie with his Maisters wife; David, who 1. Sam. 26. [...] & 27. 2. cast his folowers and him selfe into sundry dan­gers and distresses, because 1. Sam. 24. 7 and 26. 9. he would not kill Saul. Herevpon I aske you, whether you thinke, that seeing the morall lawe bound Ioseph & David to Lev. 19. 18. Matt. 19. 19. Ephe. 5. 28. loue their neighbours, & themselves, therefore they should haue made no scruple of adulterie and murder, in these cases, in which the forbearing thereof did hinder the actions of loue toward them selves and others: but ought to haue iudged those precepts in that strictnes to belong rather to the law ceremonial, though the equitie thereof per­taineth to the law moral, and so it is perpetually and simply to be observed. Which if you thinke not, as God forbid you should, and you will professe (as I am perswaded) that you de­test such thoughts: then doe you acknowledge that it came rather of a lust to crosse and contradict my speech, then of any dout you had within your selfe, that you say, a precept, which beeing strictly kept might breede some disadvantage to our selves or others, must in this respect bee counted ceremoniall, and not be kept strictly, because the morall law is never contra­rie to love and charitie in commanding or forbidding any thing. And sure you might haue reason to take it not well, if I should suppose you to be so ill catechized, as that you knew not that the moral law commandeth vs to Deut. 6. [...]. Matt. 22. 3 [...]. loue God aboue all things, and man after him; that Deut. 6. 6. Ioh. 14. 15. our loue to Godward is prooued by the obseruing and keeping of his commandements; that if by keeping of them we should seeme to hate man, we must Gen. 22. 2. Luk. 14. 26. hate him rather, then not performe our loue to God: that it folow­eth not hereof the law is contrary vnto loue neither, because to hate man so is to Matt. 10. 37 loue him lesse then God, in comparison, and not in deede to hate him; nay, it is to loue him, sith it is to wish him and worke him Matt. 16. 26 Rom. 8. 13. 2. Cor. 4. [...]. greater good by losse of lesse good which [Page 84] he can not retaine therewith. Howbeit, had you doubted, yet might you haue found enough to resolue you, if you had read my writing rather with a minde to learne, then to gainesay, in as much as I shewed by Scripture touchinge Peter, that hee should not haue lyed to avoid the daunger of whatsoeuer trou­ble: because to lye is evill; not allowed in any case by our law-gi­ver, no not for the defense of the glorie of God, much lesse for the safetie of man, a worme. Or, if, notwithstanding all that this could teach you, there might some occasion of doubting still remaine: should you not haue rather sought to be resolved by me in private conference, then publikelie in writing (made common with many, even in the country also, not onely in our Vniversitie) to affirme a point implying flat atheisme, that wee are no farder to keepe Gods commaundements, then standes with our commoditie? and so conclusivelie to vouch it with an Ergo, as if it did folow necessarilie, that all the lawes of God (for your reason holdeth by consequent in all) must be sett a­side, like ceremoniall matters, when our owne, or other mens, honour, wealth, or life, cometh in question with them? and to adde that the equitie thereof yet pertayneth to the law moral, and so they are perpetuallie and simplie to be observed? which semeth by distinguishing their equitie from strictnes to strēgthen them in sound meaning; in deede destroyeth them by teaching their transgressors how to defend most grosse iniquitie: as idolaters, for example, when, if Dan. 3. 6. Nabuchodonosor doe threaten he will burne al who worship not his golden image, they may say, that al­beit in Deuteronomie God saith, Deut. 5. 9. Thou shalt not bowe downe to them, nor worship them, yet sith the morall law is never contrary to loue in forbidding any thing, and the place of Deuteronomie, being taken strictlie, would hinder now mens actions of love to­ward them selues; Ergo in that strictnes it belongeth rather to the law ceremoniall, though the equitie thereof pertaineth to the law morall, and so it is perpetuallie and simplie to be observed. A sen­tence so vngodlie, that when Peter onely touched it a farre off, or rather lesse then touched it, speaking of a particular case, no generall law; nor Ergoing against it, nor terming the keeping of it strictnes, nor plaistering the breach of it with equitie: but [Page 85] when he tended towards it by saying to our Saviour, Matt. 16. 22 Maister, pitie thy selfe, this shall not bee vnto thee, our Sauiour answered him, Gett thee behind me, Satan, thou art an offense vnto me, be­cause thou savourest not the things that are of God, but the things that are of men.

Sutable to this new argument of yours is the defense of your olde (the onely one you pressed before) from two examples. For whereas you had reasoned thus, Some men of Macedonie, mooved by Prince Alexander, did putt on Wemens raiment to save the honor of Ladies; the like did Achilles, the sonne of The­tis, to save his life; Ergo it is lawfull to doe it in such cases; and I made answer thereto, that the reason is naught, because we are to live by lawes, not by exāples; neyther may we lye or forsweare our selves to save our lives, or benefitt others, though David & Peter did so, men worthier to be folowed then Macedonians, or Achilles: you reply, that the reason is good (this must you meane by saying that the examples are alleadged to good pur­pose in the circumstances that you apply them for, or else you delude vs with an other sophisme;) and why? For Alexanders fact is commended (say you) as proceeding from a most noble, and true heroicall minde; and because it was better that the Per­sian Embassadors were slaine, then that the chastities of so many great Ladies should so dishonorably be either overthrowne, or so much as assailed: and Thetis might well hide her sonne Achilles in a maidens apparell in respect of motherlie love & pitie which shee was to beare her sonne, knowing, as shee did, that hee should be slaine in that iourney to Troy, whether he was requested to ac­companie the other Grecian Lords. Touching the former wher­of, to admitt, that Alexanders fact proceeded from a noble true heroicall minde, and that it was better the Persian Embassadours were slaine then the chastities of so many great Ladies should so dishonorably be overthrowne, or assailed: yet doeth it not folow that men might therefore lawfullie put womens raiment on to kill them; the thing might be cōvenient and good to be done, the meanes of doeing it not good. As Satius est impunitum relinqui fa­cinus nocen­tis, quàm in­nocentem damnari. it is better that a per­son guiltie should bee left vnpunished, then a person guiltlesse should be condemned: and Trajan the Emperour lib. 19. D. de poenis. he, whose saying this was, spake it [Page 86] of a noble true heroicall minde. Yet were the meanes naught to procure by bribes or by false witnesses the escape or acquit­tall of a guiltie person: and if any man, who had vsed such dea­ling, should be commended for it, he should bee commended amisse in that respect, as Alexander is by you. Now, for the later, how proove you that Thetis might well hide her sonne Achilles, as shee did? You say, that you thinke not but she might doe it well. So. Your reason then is: I thinke shee might doe it well; Ergo she might. A common kinde of argument with you; but thinne, and leane: nor likely to proove better at the length in triall, of whatsoever plight it seeme in your writing. For let it fare as it may in Topickes, in Analytickes it must fast: it can not away with moode and figure. And what if you thinke not that shee might neither? as I thinke you doe not; vnlesse you thinke contraries, or speake otherwise then you thinke. For your selfe affirme, that the putting on of wemens rayment which is termed an abomination to the Lord in the place of Deuterono­mie, is the wearing of it ordinarily, so to converse among men and wemen, against the course of all naturall and civill regard. But Thetis, intending thereby to hide Achilles, did clothe him to converse so ordinarily among men and wemen: even longer, then he would endure to converse so; though Statius A­chilleid. li. 2. Natum ante pedes proje­cit. Neopto­lemum. De quo Verg. Aeneid. lib. 2 Apollod. de orig. Deor. lib. 3. he endu­red for certaine yeares. Therefore that, which shee did, you thinke to bee abominable: yea, pronounced in Scripture an abomination to the Lorde. The lesse materiall is it whether that be true which by the way I noted, that Statius the Poet making Chiron, Calchas, and Achilles himselfe to reproove the putting of that raiment on him, meant that men of wise, vertuous, reli­gious, ingenuous, valiant mindes, did iudge the thing simply in any case vnlawfull by the light of nature. Though I wish our iudges, vnto whose arbitrement I referre the matter, whe­ther you controll me therein well, or no, to marke that for Chiron, in whom are represented wise and vertuous persons, albeit you affirme hee had a furder reache then his words out­wardly import: yet in setting down that reache you adde, per­haps, as staggering at your owne conceit; and withall acknow­ledge that his words outwardly, whereof you can not proove an [Page 87] other inward meaning, import as much as I said. Beside that they may iustly suspect your partiall censure, because, where I had likewise noted by the way that the fact of Achilles, de­flowring Deidamia by meanes and occasion of his conversing so with her, doeth shewe what inconvenience and danger of vncleannes cleaveth to the cladding of men in wemens rai­ment: you doe overthwartly & wrongfully crosse my note by saying that hee was likely to doe as much in his owne likenes any where else. For let malefactours bee never so ready to practise any wickednes of their owne corrupt and lewde inclination: the circumstances of maner, season, place, and so foorth, com­modious to performe it doe more entise them therevnto. Wea­pons them selves (saith Odyss. li. 2 [...] [...]. Homer) doe draw men to fight: and Occasio fa­cit furem. op­portunitie maketh the eves. The force whereof in this thing I said enough to open by that, as Ter. Eun. Chaerea could not haue defiled Pamphila, no not in Thais house, without his Eunuches rai­ment: so, if womans rayment had not come on Sueton. Iu­lio, cap. 74. Plutarc. vit. Caes. & Cicer. Clodius, Caesar should not haue put away his wife Pompeia so soone as he did; perhaps never. Or are you of opinion that with vs it skilleth not whether scholers lodge in Colleges & Halls, or in townes­mens houses? Yea, although they bee neither so much con­versant, nor go in like attire, as Achilles vsed with Lycomedes daughter? Our Saviour said to his Disciples, Mark. 9. 4 [...] If thy foote cause thee to offend, cutt it of; if thine eye cause thee to offend, plucke it out: meaning that wee must sever our selves from thinges and persons that are most deare vnto vs, if they be an occasion vnto vs of sinne, and hinder vs in the way of life. Yet a man that had heard him with your disposition, might haue said, What needes it? seeing though we cutt off one foote, or plucke out one eye, the other is likely to cause vs to offend. Vpon Moses wordes in Genesis, touching Dina, that Gen. 34. 1 shee went out to see the daughters of that country, and Sichem ravished her, Calvin, Marlorat, Peter Martyr. godly learned inter­preters observe that her wandering and idle curiositie is noted and reprooved as an occasion of the vilanie that was done vnto her. Yet a gadding humour and wanton eye of maidens loth to folow S. Tit. 2. 5. Paules rule and keepe at home, might say that such teachers are puritans, who can not abide whitson-ladies: for [Page 88] Sichem was likely to doe as much to Dina, though shee had kept at home in her fathers house, and never come in Sichems sight. The very fact in question, whereon you mislike that I made this note of such occasions and entisements, hath the same observed therein by the Statius A­chilleid li. 1. Poet, the wise reporter of it: namely, that Achilles lust was first kindled by seeing Deida­mia; afterwarde encreased by conversing with her; and finally accomplished by coming through the falacie of his attire, like a woman, Lex procal ire mares: ite­rat praecepta verendus Du­ctor, inacces­sumque viris edicitur an­trum. Nec sa­tis est: stat fine dato metuen­da sacerdos, exploratque aditus; nequis temerator ob erret Agmi­ne faemineo: Tacitus sub­ [...]isit Apollo. whither else in likenes of a man hee could not. But whatsoever Statius iudged of the matter, or others shall iudge of that I noted by the way; you graunt it was abomina­ble by the lawe of God, for Thetis to put womans raiment on her sonne Achilles, as shee did. And so you haue rather con­firmed, then confuted, mine aunswere to your argument from the two examples of Macedonians and Achilles. You come in now anew with halfe a dozen more: three of men, attiring them selves in wemens raiment; three of wemen, in mens. And quoting Eucl. Mega. Theop. rex. Spar. Antenor Cepha. Eu­phrosyna vir­go Antioch. Theod. virgo & Martyr. Eugenia Ro­mana. their names onely in your margent, you say that if you had thought that these two examples should not haue bene taken in your meaning, that is, onely in the circumstance for the which you alleaged them, you could haue vsed many true stories of both sexes, to the which no such exceptions could haue bene taken. Wherein, to passe over, that by giving the name of true to those stories, you make it very probable that you meant Vlyss. red. resp. ad Mo­mum. before vnder the name of stories, the fable of Achilles, as I supposed you did by the drift of your wordes, (speaking first in generall of Id quod cre­bra testari potest Histor. stories prooving Quid si co­geret lethi metus Mutare vestem? pu­blicum quid si bonum Sua­deret? two points; then bringing Veste filius Amyntae in­dui Iuvenes muliebri dum [...]bet, tot fae­minis Claris pudorē servat one in speciall to proove the one of them, Vitam tue­tur silius The­tidis suam. Achilles to proove the other) which yet you deny to haue bene your meaning, and charge mee with vntruth in effect for saying it: you doe far­der charge me that I haue not taken those two examples in your meaning. No haue? Why? Meant you not by them to conclude, that a man may lawfully put on womans raiment, to saue his life, or benefite many, because in such cases Achilles and the Macedonians did put on such raiment? And haue not I expressely set this reason downe, affirming it to be your reason, and making mine aunswere accordingly thereto? yes: but I [Page 89] haue also in mine aunswer to it noted other circumstances of the same examples, therby to make plainer the badnes of your reason: and so I haue not taken them in your meaning, that is (as you expound it) onely in the circumstance for the which you alleaged them. You are a mery man, and not much vnlike in this respect to one, who when hee had taken vp a waster and buckler in Cheapeside at London to play with an apprentice, & the apprentice rapped him, sometime vpon the head, some­time vpon the elbow, or shoulder, or side, hee cast them downe againe; saying, that if he had thought that the apprentice would not haue stroken vpon his buckler still, he would not haue played with him. Yet in this you vary from the vaine of his speech, that you say you could haue vsed many true stories of both sexes, to the which no such exceptions could haue bene taken. Though you helpe your selfe no more by this varying, then if his skill had served him to haue warded all the blowes with his buck­ler; his weaknes being neverthelesse vnable to resist, but that he might haue had his buckler beaten about his eares. For what if no such exceptions could be taken against your six examples? Doeth not the same aunswer that I made to your reason from the Macedonians example, and Achilles, beate downe these also to the ground: sith none of them is equall to David, or to Peter, whose actions notwithstanding are no sufficient war­rants for vs? Moreover, as in beheading of noble personages, that are traitours, the executioner, having cutt of their heads, doeth hold them vp in his handes, & shew them to the people: so I, having thus beheaded, as it were, these your six examples, I meane, the reason drawne from them, perhaps (notwithstan­ding your confident assertion that no such exceptions can bee taken against them) might hold them vp in my handes, and shew that they are dead, by the like or more absurd consequu­tions from other circumstances thereof. For example, in one or two, the chiefest of them, the first of eche sexe, Euclides, and Euphrosyna; the storie of Euclides is, that when the A. [...]. noct. Art. lib. 6. cap. 10. Athenians, hauing their neighbours of Megara in great hatred, had de­creed that if any of the men of that citie were found within Athenes, he should suffer death: Euclides being of it, and loth [Page 90] to lose the benefit of the schoole of Socrates, with whom hee vsed to be at Athenes and to heare him, before that law was made, did cloth himselfe in womans attire towardes evening; went from his house in Megara to Athenes, vnto Socrates; enioyed his speech and conference some parte of the night time; and when day approched, returned home againe a litle more then twentie miles in the same attire.

Now, if this were lawfully done, because he did it: then Matt. Paris. hist. Ang. in Ricardo pri. Wil­liam Bishop of Ely, who, to saue his honour and wealth, be­came a Tunica viri­di faeminea indutus; ca­pam habens ejusdem co­loris, peplum in capite mu­liebre portās. greene-sleeues, going in womans raiment lesse way then twenty miles, from Douer castle to the Sea side, did there­in like a man; although the wemen of Douer, when they had found it out by plucking downe his muffler & seeing his new­shauen beard, Mulierculae clamorem ad sidera tollen­tes, Venite, inquiunt, & lapidemus hoc monstrū, quod sexum vtrumque de­formavit. called him a monster for it: then with vs a scho­ler, who thinketh of some man, as Euclide did of Socrates, and can not well frequent his house in the day time for suspitiō of lewdnes with his Xanthippe, or of Poperie, may come like a maiden thither in the night: then our Vniuersitie Statute of night-walkers would be taken away, or qualified at least; and if our Proctors meete one like a womā at midnight, they must not be suspicious; some studious youth, it may be, come from Wickam or Beaconsfield, and daring not to trauaile by day for theeues through Shotouer, is going to some learned man. In like sort, touching Euphrosyna, a maide of Alexandria, (of Antioche Euphrosyna virgo Antioch you name her, by slippe of penne or memorie) the storie is, that Sim Meta­phrast. vit. S. Euphrosynes Alexandr. a­pud Surium, de probat. Sanct. histor. Tom. 1. she, desiring much to liue in an Abbay like a monke, Cur metuum parentem lu­gentē & tri­stē reliquisti? Non te ad hanc spem a­lebam, sed vt haberē bacu­lum senectu­tis, solatium imbecillita­tis meae. forsooke not onely her father, who had brought her vp to be a staffe in his olde age, a comfort in his weaknes to him; but also a Pater vniqui praestabat om nibus, opibꝰ, gloria, & vir­tute, despon­dit puellam. worthy, noble, vertuous gentleman, to whom she was betrothed; clad in mans apparell she came vnto the Abbat; and being asked of him who she was, from what place, & for what cause she came, she answered, that Se vocari qui dem Smarag­dú: esse autem ex aula Im­peratoris. her name in deede was Smaragdus, and she was of the Emperours Court, and came to that Abbay to leade a holy life, if she might be ad­mitted; and so finding fauour to be admitted as a man, she liued there Triginta & [...]cto aunos. eight and thirty yeares in mans apparell. Whereof if you inferre againe, as you doe, Euphrosyna did it, Ergo lawfull; [Page 91] a better proofe, I grant, then, Achilles did it, or Mocedonians did it, because they were profane men, Martyrolog. Roman. Ia­nuar. 1. Grae­cor. menolog Caes. Baron. notationib. in martyrolog. Roman. Euphrosyna is a Saint; but as you reason thus: likewise may an other in the same moode and figure; Euphrosyna, through a desire of moonkish perfection, refused to honour her father; Ergo Mark. 7. 9. Christ did wrong­fully checke the Scribes and Pharises for breaking Gods comman­dements to keepe traditions of men: Euphrosyna chose rather to be with others then with him to whom she was betrothed; Ergo Moses erred in teaching that a Deut. 22. 23. maide bethrothed is a verse. 24. wife, & that Gen. 2. 24. the wife should cleaue inseparably to her husband: Euphro­syna lyed for a vantage; Ergo S ^t. 1. Ioh. 2. 21. Iohn was a precisian, who condemneth all lyes: Euphrosyna conuersed in mens apparell, a­mongst men, eight and thirty yeares; Ergo D. Gager mistooke the place of Deuteronomie, when he gaue it this meaning, that to goe attired so ordinarily is abomination to the Lord. See you now what maner if true stories, of true all, you could haue vsed of both sexes? and how bold you were in saying that no such exceptions could be taken to them, as to the former? The which notwithstanding, were it as you say, you doe no more helpe your argument thereby, then if a traitour being beheaded, whom you favoured, you staied the executioner from holding vp his head, and sowed it on againe your selfe to his body with close and hansom stitches. For although no such exceptions could be taken to any of your examples, yet had I beheaded with the Heb. 4. 13. the swoord of Gods woord the reason drawne from them: and with Iustinians swoord too, in that I adioyned for your sake out of your law, that we are to liue by lawes, not by examples: and to Non tam spectandum est quid Ro­mae factū sit, quàm quid fieri debeat. lib. 12. D. de Officio Prae­sid. looke, not so much what is done any where, as what ought to be done.

Hereunto you adde an other new argument to shew that the place of Deuteronomie toucheth certaine cases onely, not ge­nerally forbiddeth a man to put on womans raiment: and that is, the opinion and iudgement of Diuines. For after you had deliuered these expositions of it, as liked by your selfe, that to weare such raiment of a lewde intent, the rather thereby, & the more safely to be in the company of wemen to bring some bad pur­pose about; or of an effeminate minde to suffer his heare to grow [Page 92] long, or to frizell it; or in speech, colour, gate, gesture, and beha­viour to become womanish; or ordinarily so to conuerse among men and wemen, against the course of all naturall, and civill re­gard, is abomination to the Lord: and noted it moreover to be expounded by other thus, that wemen are forbidden to put on the armour of men, and men the raiment of wemen, because at that time it was superstitious, in as much as among the Gentiles wemen woare mens armour in the sacrifices of Mars, and men woare wemens ornaments and instruments, as distaffe, spindell, and such like, in the sacrifices of Venus; and therefore is it added that he who doth so is abominable to God because abomination is taken in the Scriptures commonly for idolatrie, or some thing be­longing to idolatrie: but after you had sett downe these exposi­tions, you say that all the Divines whom ever you talked with of this matter, doe affirme the true meaning of that place to be conteined in these senses rehearsed. Wherein by alleaging the consent of all Diuines that euer you talked with hereof, as ma­king for you, first, you grant your self never to haue talked here of with S. Cyprian, Chrysostome, Procopius, Thomas Aquinas, Liranus, Calvin, Hyperius, Beza, Bishop Babingtō; who making it a point annexed (as I shewed) to the seventh commandemēt, doe imply the meaning therof to be larger then your rehearsed senses: neuer with Strom. lib. 2 Clemens Alexandrinus, De fide & legib. cap. 13 Gulielmus Pa­risiensis, In Deutero. artic. 23. Dionysius Carthusianus, Declamat. in Deuter. Ferus, Annot. Pa­raphr. On­keli Chald. in Deutero. Fagius, Ethic. Chri­stian. lib. 2. cap. 14. Danaeus; who by handling it in like sort as the former, doe testifie their agreement with them in the conclusion: neuer with Tertulli­an, Divin. insti­tut. lib. 6. cap. 20. Lactantius, Soliloquior. lib. 2. cap. 16 Austin, the Bishops assembled in the sixth generall councell to the number of aboue two hundred and twenty: who partly by vrging that place against stage-players partly by condemning the thing it speaketh of, as lewde, doe evidently argue that they are of a different minde from you concerning it. Or sith you hauing had the most of these quo­ted in my letters to you, doe grant, for Cyprian namely & the generall concel, that they make against you, & therfore seeme, in citing all that euer you talked with; to meane not such as you haue read and perused, but whom you haue asked thereof by woord of mouth: then, why should you more enforce against [Page 93] mee the sayings and iudgment of all that euer you talked with, then I against you the sayings and iudgements of all that euer I talked with? For as you report of them whom you talked with that they are very godly and excellently learned: in like sorte may I of them whom I talked with. And of mine you can not but the rather beleeue me, because I named you one, of whom your selfe answer, that you esteeme him to be a good man, a good scholer, and a good Preacher: you name me none of yours. Againe, there hath not any of yours in publike place, where men doe speake with greater advise to Christian audi­tories, avouched that which you hold: he, whom you com­mend, and commend iustly, hath preached the same that I teach. But, you say, he could not iustifie his speech, vttered so publikely, if it should come to due triall. But, I say, this speech of yours so publikely vttered is come to due triall, and you can not iustifie it. For he, hauing opened the woords of his text, Psal. 119. 10 Let me not wander from thy commandements, & begonne to shew what a cōtrary course vnto the Prophets practise we take now a daies, did prosequute it thus. To lett passe other things, let stage-playes in the Vniuersitie, and Maygames in the towne, speake whether these things be so. In Deut. 22. 5. Deuteronomie the precept is, The woman shall not put on mans raiment, nether shall a man putt on womans raiment; for all that doe so are abomination to the Lord: And it is the 1. The. 5. 22 Apostles precept to abstaine from all appearance of evill. Whether the former precept be broken in all playes, I know not. Sure very few or none there are, wherein ei­ther the one, or both, is not broken: either through the vile scur­rilitie of the matter oftentimes vnbeseeming chast eares; or tho­rough the time for the preparing for them; or through the vnneces­sarie charges about them; or through the manifold daungers com­ming both to actors, and spectators, by them. Herevpon, having added somewhat touching maygames, he made this exhorta­tion. The Prophet prayeth vnto the Lorde, that hee may not wander from his commandementes. His action ought to be thine instruction: and art thou so farre from folowing him that thou treadest his law vnder thy feete, and castest his wordes behinde thee? Take heede, feare, and tremble; thou hast not to deale with [Page 94] man, but with God: who hath left thee his law, not to dally with­all, or cunningly to deceve thy selfe with thine owne glosses vpon the same, but to bee the witnesse of his will, and rule of thy life. This is the same speech, and all, that hee did vtter so publikely hereof; set downe in writing by him selfe before hee vttered it: a speech, that in this present triall betweene vs is already iusti­fied, and shall bee declared farder to be 1. Cor. 3. 12 gold, silver, pretious stones, in the day of great triall. So shall the same doctrine deli­vered by S. Cyprian, the sixth generall councel, and other wor­thy men: when of the contrary side your wood, hay, stubble, shal be consumed by fire. In the meane season your self doe lay o­pen your own corrupt affections, & blaze your own shame sun­dry wayes. One, in that you say, that you trust you shall not seeme to any man to wrong S. Cyprian & the rest, if you folow the opiniō of others both very godly & excellentlie learned, who do interpret that text of Deuter. otherwise then hee, or they doe: specially in a case that toucheth you so neere, wherin you are to defende your selfe and many your good frends from the reproch of open infamie. For you speake therein, as if the question beeing of an other text, Deut. 23. 19 Thou shalt not giue to vsurie vnto thy brother, D. Wilsons discourse vpō vsurie. which some newer writers expound against vnmercifull and cutting vsu­rie, as they terme it; not against all vsurie, as Austin with a number of ancient Fathers doeth; an vsurer should saye: I trust I shall not seeme to any man to wrong S. Austin and the rest, if I folow the opinion of others, both very godly and excellenly learned, who doe expound that text otherwise then hee, or they doe; specially in a case that toucheth mee so neere, wherin I am to defend my selfe, and many my good frendes, from great discredit and discommoditie. An other, in that you adde, that you well wote it litle becommeth you to say, Da veniam Cypriane. In deede, for my selfe, whom in this you glance at, I must confesse I thought that it did become Praefat. thes. de sacr. scrip. and eccles. me to saye, Da veniam Cypriane, vpon the circumstances that I said it: which, if it were a fault, though D. His answere to the preface of Gre. Mar. discovery, sect. 15. Fulke thought other­wise, but if it were, it was of errour; and I will recant it, if you confute the Set down in the end of my conference w ^t Hart: in the Defence of such things as Tho. Staple­ton, & Gre­gorie Martin haue carped at in my The­ses. reasons that mooved me to thinke it did become mee so to say. But you, who wote well (by your owne confes­sion) [Page 95] it litle becommeth you to say, Da veniam Cypriane, doe thereby acknowledge, that although you are perswaded, as you pretend, the proper naturall sense of the worde of God to bee on your side, not on Cyprians; in trueth you are not so. For else you would thinke that it should become you very well to say, Pardon mee, O Cyprian: sith you know, I hope, that it be­came the Apostles very well to say, Act. 5. 29. Wee ought rather to obey God then men. And if it doe litle become you to saye, Pardon mee, O Cyprian, when yet you dissent from him and contra­dict him: then you glozed in saying that with all humblenesse you reverence his autoritie; seeing, to craue Quod divi­narum Scrip­turarum au­toritati con­gruit in literis Cypriani, cū laude eius ac­cipio: quod autem non cōgruit, cum pace eius res­puo. August. cont. Cresco. gramma. lib. 2 cap. 32. leaue and pardon, in dissenting, is a signe of reverence. And if to vse so milde words, Pardon mee, O Cyprian, it become you litle: how much lesse, to say, as in effect you doe, Maledicta textum glos­sa quae vitiat bonū. Vlyss. red. resp. ad Mom. It is a cursed glosse, O Cyprian, which thou makest? And if vnto Cyprian alone it litle becom­meth you to say so much: how greatly vnbeseeming is it for you to say it vnto such a number, both of olde, & new interpre­ters, besides him? Finally, for an vpshoote, where you say that he, as a godly man, was caried with a vehement & a perfit hatred against the detestable abuses of the heathen spectacles in his time: you graunt that the spectacles of playes sett foorth by you haue detestable abuses in them; sith the Cothurnus est tragicus prisca facino­ra carmine recensere: de parricidis & incestis hor­ror antiquus, expressa ad imaginē ve­ritatis actio­ne, replicatur Cypr. epist. 2 ad Donat. tragedies, the playing where­of he detesteth, are such as your Ulysses; the Vt ad scenae sales invere­cundos tran­situm faciam, pudet referre quae dicuntur pudet etiam accusare quae fiunt: agenti­um strophas, adulterorum fallacias, mu­lierum impu­dicitias, scur­riles iocos, parasitos sor­didos; ipsos quoque patres familiâs togatos, modo stupidos, modò obscoenos, in omnibus stolidos, certis nominibus inverecundos. Cyprian. de spectac. cap. 5. Comedies, as your Rivales: and so, how litle care you haue of being godly, who are not only not caried with an hatred, I say not, with a vehemēt & perfit hatred, against them, but also dote vpon them, & write de­fenses of thē, I iudge you not, your own mouth iudgeth you. As for those godly and learned Divines, who being talked withall by you touching the true sense of the place of Deuteronomie, did make that answer which you mention: what if they, misli­king your resolute intent, did folow the example of Michaeas the Prophet? 1. King. 22. 15. who being asked by king Achab wheher he should go against Ramoth Gilead to battell, or leaue off; did answer him, Go vp, & prosper; & the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king. What if in a meriment, knowing why you asked it, they spake vnto you, as Cassellius a lawier vnto a certaine Roman? [Page 96] Macrob. Sa­turn lib. 2. cap. 6. Of whom, when Uatinius having had stones throwne at him by the people, to whom he was odious, did purpose to set forth a spectacle of fensers, and had gotten the magistrates to make proclamation that no man should cast ought into the place of spectacles saving an apple onely; Cascellius beeing asked, whe­ther a pine apple were an apple, If thou meane to hurle it at Va­tianus, it is, quoth he. What if you mistooke the summe of their answer, or a worde therein? they telling you perhaps that the true meaning of the place of Deuteronomie doeth containe those senses which are rehearsed by you; and you misconstruing them as if they had said that the true meaning thereof is contai­ned in those senses rehearsed, and so may in no case bee extended farder. Of which three coniectures (you force me to divine of them, and betweene them, because you would not name the parties whom you cite, that by them selves I might learne what they said, and why,) the last in my opinion seemeth most probable: considering it is likely that godly learned men would looke what had bene written vpon the place by inter­preters; and the interpreters, whose wordes, even translated by you in a maner, are an evident token what your Divines tolde you, doe specifie those thinges as meant, in such sort, that they deny not but more might bee meant; yea most of them affirme the generall to be meant also. For, of five particulars (so many you set down) Strabus, the autour of the ordinarie Glosse, hath two: namely that a man Mulieris na­turaliter di­versus est co­lor, motus, incessus, vires must not become womanish in colour, gate, and so foorth; nor Comam cris­pare, torque­re capillos: vndeAposto­lus, vir si co­mam nutrie­rit, ignomi­nia est. illi. suffer his heare to grow long, or frizill it. The other three, that hee may not put on womans raiment, Posset intra­re vir ad mu­lierē sub ha­bitu muliebri thereby the more safely to be in wemens company, to bring about some bad purpose; nor Quas natura sexu discreve­rat, discernat & vestitus. ordinarily so to converse among men and wemen, against the course of naturall & ciuill regard; nor In sacris Ve­neris viri ef­faeminaban­tur. Or, as Li­ranus spea­keth, whose wordes you expresse, por­tabant orna­menta & in­strumēta mu­lierū, vtpote colum, fusum & similia. to be womanlike in the sacrifices of Uenus: these hath Gulielmus Al­vernus, Bishop of Parise, and Carthusianus after him; Aquinas, and Liranus too, the last of them. Now Strabus saith not that those two thinges alone are meant: the rest doe say that so much more is meant then the other three, as prooveth my as­sertion. For the Guliel. Pari. de fide & le­gib. cap. 13. Bishop of Parise, cited and abbridged by Dionysius Carthusianus, among sundry causes why the lawe of [Page 97] God should forbid a man to put on womans raiment, giveth this for one, Vt occasio magna pro­vocationi li­bidinis aufer­retur. that a great occasion of provoking men to lust might be taken away. For Magna pro­vocatio libi­dinis viris est vestitus mu­liebris. the apparell of wemen (saith he) is a great provocation of men to lust and leacherie: because a Vestis muli­ebris viro cir­cundata ve­hementer re­fricat memo­riam & com­movet ima­ginationem mulieris. wo­mans garment beeing put on a man doeth vehemently touch and moue him with the remembrance & imagination of a woman; and Imaginatio rei desidera­bilis commo­vet desideriū. the imagination of a thing desirable doth stirr vp the desire. The same in Incentivum est concupi­scentiae, & occasionem libidini prae­stat. 1 ^a 2 ^•. quaest. 102. art. 6. fewer words Aquinas doeth affirme. And Liranus far­der, having declared what mooved him to preferre the last ex­position (rehearsed by your self, though somewhat confusely, which I was bolde to mend in the recitall of it, the better here to be vnderstoode) saith, that if the text be meant of common ap­parell, Prohibetur hîc talis vsus, vel potius a­busus, quia est occasio libi­dinis. then is such an vse or rather abuse forbidden, because it is an occasion of wantonnes and lust. Wherein he hath relation to that, whereas the Heb. CEL [...] word, vsed in the former branch of the sen­tence touching mens furniture not to be worne by wemen, doeth sometime signifie common apparell, sometime armour; he had said, that this place, he thought, the signification of armour fitted best: induced therevnto because he had read that wemen in the sacrifices of Mars did beare armour; and the reason added, for all that doe so are abomination to the Lord, might wel enough agree, sith matters of idolatrie are commonly in the Scriptures termed abomination. But seeing it appeareth not by sufficient proofe that wemen woare mens armour in the sacrifices of Mars, or men woare wemens distaffes, spindles, and such like, in the sacrifices of Uenus; and the later branch of the law forbidding a man to put on womans Heb. SIM­LAH. raiment, doeth shew that common apparell is meant in the former, as S. Hierome also in the vulgar Non indue­tur mulier veste virili: nec vir vte­tur veste fae­minea. Latin translation hath noted: it foloweth that Liranus resteth and resolveth vpon the generall sense and ex­position as truest. By consequence whereof the worde, abomi­nation, must not be restrained to matters of idolatrie, but taken in his naturall meaning: according to the like vse therof in like places, where the Leui. 18. 22 & 20. 13. Deut. 23. [...]. law condemneth those execrable villanies, to which this change of raiment provoketh and entiseth. Thus seeing that no one of all those interpreters, by whom the expo­sitions, which you rehearse, are sett down, denieth that the law [Page 98] extendeth farder then your specialties, & most of them affirme it: I feare it were a fault in me to beleeve you, that godly lear­ned Divines, with whom you talked thereof, should all avouch vnto you the thing you father on them. Howbeit, if they did, and you will needes enforce their testimonie against me; mine aunswer made to Cyprian, to them I must apply: The law for­bidding men to put on wemens raiment, saith that all who doe so are abomination to the Lorde. What? And haue godly learned Divines said otherwise? Pardon me, ye godly & learned Divines; I would beleeve you gladly, but that beleeving you I should not beleeve the word of God. And I assure my selfe so much of their modestie, that though you, with The preface of his disco­verie. Gregorie Martin, doe taunt me for my presumptuous saying, Pardon mee O Cyprian: yet, sith Retractat. lib. 2. cap. 18 Austin thought hee might, without any disgrace vnto Cyprian, allow of Tychonius the Donatists exposition as better sitting a place of scripture, then his did; they will not take it hardly that I preferre the iudgement of Cyprian, with Austin, and such, so many other both olde and new interpreters, before theirs in this point.

But you, to cutt the cable of my cheefest anker, [...], Chrys. homil. 4. de Lazaro. the sacred anker, as they terme it, which is, the generalitie of the lawe it selfe, pronouncing all abominable who change their raiment so, betake your selfe at the last to this desperate refuge, that though the proposition be a generall affirmatiue, All men are abo­mination who put on womans apparell, yet in your cases it suffe­reth exception. I call this refuge desperat, because your owne handling thereof doeth seeme to argue, that when you came vnto it, you did treade on thornes; and felt that you should bee pitifully pricked, if you stoode long vpon it. For when, vnto the rules of law which I cited, that every speciall is suspended when the generall is suspended, and hee who forbiddeth the gene­rall will not haue the speciall practised, you had replied that these rules are to bee vnderstoode of those generals that absolutely command, and necessarily comprehend their specials sub potestate sua, not those which must endure controlment as it were, & suffer exceptions to restraine their power; you giue this reason of it: For generall propositions, both in Divinitie, and Law, doe vsually [Page 99] admitt particular exceptions and limitations, quae derogant gene­ralitati: of which sort this proposition, that we haue in hand, is; as there are many mo of like nature, which you could alleage (you say) to illustrate these rules, but that they are plaine to me, and you are weary already, and haue a great way yet to goe, and feare that I am starke tyred with your tedious discourse. It is recorded by Appian. de bellis Parth. Plutarch. vi­ta Crassi. historians that the Parthians vsed to flye frō their enemies, & withal to strike thē with arrows shot backward. Whervpō Epistol. lib. 2. epist. 1. Ho­race, affirming that he wrote no verses at al, when he wrote many, doeth compare himself to Ipse ego qui nullos me af­firmo scribe­re versus, In­venior Par­this menda­cior. them, who fought most, when they pretēded flight. You resemble the Parthiās in your Versis ani­mosum equis Parthum. Horat. carm. lib. 1. od 19. couragious flying: you will not seeme to withdraw yourselfe, as overcome, but as weary with killing, & having other exploits to doe, and taking pitie of me. Only you differ frō them, in that you shoote no arrowes while you are flying away; which else I might be a­fraid of, as Carm. lib. 2. od. 13. Horace saith their Miles sagit­tas & celerē fugā Parthi. souldiers were. For your axiome vrged in maner of a proofe, that generall propositions both in Di­vinitie, and Law, doe vsually admitt particular exceptions; proo­veth iust nothing: vnlesse peradventure you thinke that in good Logicke this argument will hold: Some generall propositions, for the word vsually betokeneth some not all; some therfore doe ad­mit particular exceptions; Ergo the proposition we haue in hande doeth so. A shaft so vnshapen without head or feather, that al­though the stele, I meane the antecedēt therof, be wel wrought, & many examples might you alleage to illustrate it, if need were: yet your self durst not as much as make a shew of nocking, and drawing it, to shoote it of with an Ergo. But I of the contrary side will so encounter this devise of yours, that there shall no more life be left therein, then there was in 1 Kin. 22. 35 Achab the evening after he was wounded. And that by meanes of this argument. No particular exception is good against a generall propositi­on in Divinitie, saue onely such as Scripture maketh and warranteth. But your asseveration, that men may put on we­mens raiment in stage-playes, is a particular exception not warranted by Scripture, against the generall proposition that all who doe so are abominable. Therefore mens wearing of wemens raiment on stages can not bee good in Divinitie. [Page 200] The major of which syllogisme the Lawe (to goe no farder) matched with Divinitie by your selfe in this case of rules and limitations, propositions & exceptions, wil approove vnto you. For if against a generall rule and proposition, as for example sake, that D. de iust. & iure. lib. 10. Cic. de Offic. lib 1. right ought alwayes to bee done, a man of Cic. de Offi. lib. 3. Sueto. Iulio Caes. cap. 30. Caesars minde should by way of exception and limitation say, that it ought in deede, save when a kingdome may bee gotten by doeing injurie and wrong: must wee allow this exception? No. And why? Because it is not warranted by any text of Lawe. Hence is it that In si. 11. D. de in ius vo­cando. Bartolus, and Glossa communis after him, affirming absolutely that where the law distinguisheth not, we may not di­stinguish, doe shew that they meane this, not of any one lawe, but of the whole body, to weete, that Vbi lex non distinguit, nos non debemus distinguere, nisi illa lex distinguatur per aliam. wee may not distinguish vpon a law, vnlesse that law by some other law be so distinguished. Likewise, in Divinitie, if against the doctrine of Psal 106. 3. doeing righ­teousnes at all times (to presse the same example) a woman like 1. Kin. 21. 8. Iezabel, or men like the Elders and Governours, whom shee wrote to, should say that generall rules may admitt exceptions, and righteousnes is requisit to be done at all times, save when land may bee gotten by suborning false witnesses, or a king pleased by shedding innocent blood: this might be very iustly called a Maledicta textum glos­sa quae vitiat bonum. cur­sed glosse, because the Scripture doeth not teach in any place that it is lawfull to doe evill for advantage, or gratifying of Princes. Neither could the 2. Tim. 3. 17 Apostle rightly praise the Scrip­ture, as serving to furnish a man of God perfitly vnto all good workes, if a worke therein commanded or forbidden general­lie, as good or naught, were contrariwise abominable or al­lowable in particulars not declared by Scripture. Which moo­ved S. Austin, among lessons given for the right expounding therof, to make this one, that De doctr. Christ. lib. 3. cap 28. doutfull points of Scripture ought to be cleared by the Scripture it selfe, because lib. 2. cap. 9 all such thinges as touch faith and maners are sett downe plainly in the Scripture. True it is therefore that no particular exception, in Divinitie, may be admitted against a generall proposition, vnlesse the Scrip­ture warrant it: which was the first parte of my syllogisme. The next, that your assertion touching mens wearing of we­mens raiment in stage-playes, is a particular exception not war­ranted [Page 101] by Scripture against a generall proposition: must needes be graunted also. Specially by you: who, having talked therof with Divines, both many, and excellently learned, perceaue that none of them could bring foorth any warrant out of Scripture for it. Wherefore, the conclusion, against your stage-play-we­men, may cause both them and you to dye your faces with that colour, which a Diog. Laērt. in Diogene. Philosopher termed well [...]. the colour of vertue: and I pray God it doe.

So the commandement, that a man shall not put on womans raiment, being prooved to reach vnto all in generall, even such, as for the saving of honour, wealth, or life, doe it, much more whom nothing moveth thereto but a playing humour: it fo­loweth to be sifted whether there bee truth and weight in that you adde, that your players did not weare wemens raiment. A thing avouched by you in like sort almost, as if 1 Kin. 22. 34 Achab being wounded to death with an arrow sticking in his side, should haue said, I am not hurt. But this, which, if hee had brought reason to perswade men, he might haue seemed desirous to bee madde with reason, you labour to confirme, saying that you may not in deede be said at all to weare wemens apparell, because wearing implieth a custome and a common vse of so doing: where­as you doe it for an hower, or two, or three, to represent an others person, by one that is openly knowne to be as hee is in deede. For aunswer wherevnto, first, passing over your idle addition con­cerning the To represent an others person. ende and By one y ^t is opēly known to be as he is in deede. circumstance of your vsing it; which I terme idle, beecause if men should vse it still to whatsoever ende, and openly knowne to be the same they are, as Suet. in Ner. cap. 28. Sporus was, they may indeede bee said to weare it, you will graunt: but first if it be onely for an hower, or two, or three, that you doe it; where are your wemen dressed? by whom? at what time? all at the same moment they come vpon the stage? and hath none bene dressed at noone, to play at night? and hath it not bene towards midnight, ere some playes ended? Next, if it be true, that wea­ring implieth a custome and a common vse of so doeing: then be­like it may not be said that Nero the Emperour did ever weare any garment. For Nullam ve­stem bis in­duit. hee did never put on any garment twise, as Nero. ca. 30 Suetonius writeth: and therefore had no custome and common [Page 102] vse of any. Furthermore, suppose that you might not bee said to weare wemens apparell; yet are you not the neerer to that which you intend: sith the Scripture saith, that a man shall not put on womans raiment, and you doe put it on (I trow) when you play, whether you weare it, or no. Finally, the Prophets Heb. jilbosch word, betokening this in the originall text, is the very same with that whereby 1 Sam. 17. 38 the armour of Saul is described to haue bene put on David. Now if David who put off Sauls armour by and by, within halfe an howre, a quarter, or lesse much; yet had it put on, after the phrase of Scripture: may it not be said, that they, who went in wemens raiment certaine howres, did that which Scripture speaketh of, English it as you list, put on, or weare such raiment? Alas, Quam mise­rum est id ne­gare nō posse quod sit tur­pissimum cō ­fiteri? in how miserable plight is he, saith Phillipp. 2. Tullie, who can not deny that, which to confesse it is most shamefull? I, with a litle change of his sentence, must lament your case, who dare not confesse that which to deny it is most shamefull. For how many hundreds are there of eye-witnesses, that your Eu­ryclea, Melantho, Penelope, Phoedra, Nais, others, did weare wemens raiment? Howe many did obserue, and with mislike haue mentioned, that Penelopes maides did not onely weare it, but also sate in it among true wemen in deed, longer then Da­vid woare Sauls armour? neither were more knowne to them to bee men, then Achilles was at firste to Deidamia; vntill they suspected it, seeing them entreated by the wooers to rise and danse vpon the stage. I wish there had not bene so bad a token to convince you; nor so many beholders to testifie there­of: though I am glad withall that they had such mislike of the thing testified. And this commoditie by it besides, that I might feare else, least you, who did before deny that men playing on your stage, are stage-players; and doe deny here that the play­ers of wemens partes weare wemens raiment; would at length deny that you had any playes at all; and so accuse me of slaun­dering your friendes for being on the stage, when they were in their studies.

The third head of reasons, knit vp vnder the title of losing time in Vlys [...] [...]ed. [...]. [...] Mom. your speech, but containing losse of better things then time, I declared the strength of, chiefly by this argument. To [Page 103] imitate and resemble wantonnes, scurrilitie, impudēcie, drunken­nes, or any other misbehaviour, is a thing vnlawfull: But sundry misbehaviours were imitated and resembled by Penelopes wooers, her maides, Rivales, mariners, Phaedra, the Nurse, the Nymph, and others in the playing of your tragedies and comedie: The playing therefore of them is to bee misliked. Whereagainst you say not much for the maior. Onely, for as much as I, beside a number both of divine autorities, and humane, avouching it, alleaged your owne consent too, in that you affirme that Virile non est faeminae mores sequi. it beseemeth not men to folow wemens maners: you say your mea­ning was, that it doth not beseeme them to folow wemens maners in the common course of life, to the perverting of the law of na­ture, honestie, and comelines; or for any evill purpose; yet a boy, by way of representation onely, may, not indecently, imitate may den­lie or womanlie demeanour. Which aunswer though it seemeth to deny your approoving of my reproofe in part, about young mens imitating of the maners of wemen: yet the greatest part thereof doeth it approoue. For I founde most fault with imi­tating the manners of strumpets and bawdes, Melantho, Phaedra, the Nurse: and, I trust, you will not say that the de­meanour of such vnmaidenly maidens, & vnwemenly wemen, is either maidenly or womanly. But whatsoever you say touch­ing your owne sentence, and after your common course of di­stinguishing interpret it as meant in the common course of life, to the perverting of the law of nature, honestie and comelines, or for any evill purpose: it sufficeth mee, that you durst not apply these distinctions to the Scriptures, Fathers, or forein writers, by which I confirmed the major of mine argument and you acknowledge it to be truly confirmed. The minor is the hedge, whereat, as the lowest, you were in hope that you might leape over with lesse difficultie. And in this confidence you aske What proportion there is betweene those thinges, which I enlarge in my maior; and those thinges which in particular application against you, are vsed in my minor? To the which question I will make no aunswer, till you haue considered and tolde me what proportion there is betwene an Elephant, and Maximinus the Emperour. But the minor of mine argument, whereto I must [Page 104] holde you, and not giue you leaue thus to runne at riott vpon every wandring conceit of proportions; the minor of mine ar­gument, I say, is most certaine, & true, in every branch thereof. Though neither is your cunning and arte, by the way, to bee passed over, that wheras I having in generall disclosed the hurt of amatorie dansing, did note in particular your wooers dan­sing with their minions: you reply that they dansed onely two solemne measures, without any lighter galliard; and herevpon you aske me, What Herod could be inflamed? What Propertius ravished? what flame of lust kindled thereby in mens heartes? what wounds of loue imprinted? whose senses could bee moved, or affections delited more then ought to bee, or may honestly bee? What enemies of chastitie made by this sight? what strong or con­stant heart vanquished; nay, what reede shaken thereby? What so much as flaxe or towe sett on fire? Great crye, and litle wooll: as who say that I had applied all these things to dansing alone; and not diverse of them to amatorie kissing, amatorie embra­cing, and amatorie pangs expressed in most effectuall sort, togi­ther with it. Or, as who saye farther, that none could be tou­ched with anie sparke of lust by seeing the supposed gentlewe­men danse so small a time, so grauelie with galant lustie yoon­kers; because you, a marvellous indifferent iudge, & well seene in thinges of this qualitie, doe pronounce that none could. Diuin. instit. lib. 3. cap. 28 Lactantius, controlling a sentence, wherein De Offi. li. 2 Tullie had mag­nified the force of fortune, and giuen edge thereto with an in­terrogatiō, Quis. inquit, nescit? Ego verò nescio. Who knoweth not that Fortune is of great force both wayes, either to prosperitie, or to adversitie? forsooth, saieth hee, I know it not. In like sort they whose iudgement herein is so much sounder, lesse daseled with affection and preiudice, then yours, as in matters touching God and true Religion, Lactan­tius was then Tullies, may answer your demaundes, that manie Herods might be inflamed, many a Propertius ravished thereby. For your partialitie and weaknes of sight doeth bewray it selfe, in that, where I had noted how your new Nymph, by liuely ex­pressing of amorous panges, brought fewell enough to heate & melt a hart of yce or snow: you reply, that shee hath bene woorse reported of to me a great deale, then shee did deserue, as I and the [Page 105] world shall one day see. Now shee was so reported of to mee by Lactantius, I meane, a man whose woord I offer you no wrong if I beleeue before yours; a man, that deserueth to be as well e­steemed of, as he, for sundrie causes, & for some, better, a man, who did report it, not of surmise, but of knowledge; not of heare-say, but of sight; not of that which might be, but which had hapned in senses and affections mooved and tickled with it. And the thing which the world and I should one day see, whereby your meaning shewed in the wordes ensuing, is, that shee did profer honest, lawfull, vertuous, mariage-meaning love, as Panniculus Hippolyto Se necae tragae­diae assutus Append Me­leagr. her speech committed now to print declareth; doeth not proove that he reported worse a great deale to me of her expres­sing those panges, then shee deserved. For that very Iugalem pa­riter ineamus torum Liba­mina ad te prima serua­tae affero Fa­mae, & iuven­tae: tu pariter ad me tua Affer; & vter­que carpas v­triusque hanc rosam Primā integram (que). action, which shee did insinuate her selfe to be Miserere a­morem Nai­dis fassae gra­vem, Nun­quam (que) fassu­rae, nisi hanc furor vltimus vocem expu­lisset. enraged & Sed vror in­tus, fateor. burne with de­sire of, is Heb. 13. 4. [...]. honest, and lawfull, belonging vnto vertuous and ma­riage-meaning loue. Yet if one should say, that the open dooing of it, like a Dio Laēr. in Hipparchia. [...] Cynicke, or vsing of sweete woordes and gestures tending to it, like Xen. convi [...]. Bacchus and Ariadne, can not shake a reed, much lesse surprise or wound a strong and constant heart: hee might seeme vnwoorthie to be talked withall by men of inge­nuous modestie and iudgement. Wherefore sith the profer of nothing else but honest and mariage-meaning love, made in woords only by a hansom boy apparelled like a woman did ra­vish a Propertius, and inflame an Herode; notwithstanding you thought that it could not possibly worke anie such effect, as I and the world also should perceive: your thicke interrogations wherewith you come vpon mee, as with so manie foines and prickes of a sword, to make me yeelde that youthes attired in wemens raiment, & dansing a few solemne measures like Salust. con­jurat. Cai. Sem­pronia, can not set flaxe on fire; in shewe they doe brave it, as if no way but one; in deed they draw not so much blood, as a needle would. But be it as be may, for the forcible operation and working of the poyson, which neither I affirmed to be al­together so quicke in every branch of the minor, concerning your players, as in some alleadged for proofe of the maior; nor doe you rightlie iudge of, who acknowledging it to be as poy­son in the major for bad effectes of such playes, would haue it [Page 106] triacle in the minor for good effectes of yours: the minor of mine argument, as I saide, is certaine and true in euery braunch thereof. One alone, amongst all that I specified, you take ex­ception at; which is the Nymphes part. And therein I mistooke a circumstance, I graunt. How be it I must tell you withall that I mistooke it so, and such a circumstance, that the righting of it doth not onely not diminish the certaintie and truth of my minor, but rather much encreaseth it. For when the graue and godly man, whom I spake of, had shewed me his mislike of a­morousnes and drunkēnes expressed in your playes; and name­ly, for the former, had noted the mischief of the representing those pangs so effectually by the Nymph, a new part inserted into Seneca: I not being farder inquisitiue thereof, did thinke that you supposing the person of a bawde was not set foorth lively and skilfully enough by Seneca in Phaedras Nurse, had brought in a Nymph to perswade Hippolytus that which the Nurse could not; and therevpon I mentioned the Nurses and the Nymphes bawderie. Nowe, by your publishing of that which you inserted, I perceave you added a new bawd in deed, but a man bawde, Pandarus; and gaue the Nymph an other part almost as shamefull: so that, I confesse, I was, through some negligence, doubly overseene; first, in naming Titius, or rather Titia, for Seius; againe, in imagining one naughty part added by you vnto Seneca, whereas you added two. For, whatsoever you say of your Nymphes wooing and profer to Hip­polytus: S. De Abrah. patr. lib. 1. cap. ult. Ambrose, on the Gen. 24. 51 Scripture touching Rebeccas spousals, saith that a woman should giue vnto her parents the choise of her husband, Ne appeten­tiae procatio­ris aestimetur autor. least shee bee reputed too malapert and wanton, if she take vpon her to make her owne choise: Expetita e­nim magis debet videri [...] à viro, quàm ipsa virum expetisse. for shee must rather seeme to be desired by a man, then to desire a man her selfe. And you should haue noted, that Epist. de col­loquioru vtil. ad lectorem. Erasmus words, allea­ged by your selfe to iustifie the Nymphes action, are, Si res ho­nesta est matrimonium, & procum agere honestum est. Procum agere, hee saith, of the masculine gender; not of the feminine, Procam. A thing, from allowing whereof hee was so farre; much more from terming them tetrica ingenia & ab omnibus Gratiis aliena, who doe disallow it; though you, not contented [Page 107] to adioyne this also, enlarge it with comparison of your speech to Momus; as if Erasmus likewise blamed vs for Quibus im­pudicum vi­detur quic­quid amicu [...] est ac festirū. accounting all matters touching love, and pleasant mirth, vnchast, iumpe as your selfe doe for Qui turpe, laetum, ludi­crum, petu­lans vocat. calling that vnhonest and wanton, which is merry and light: but Erasmus was so farre from allowing a maide to bee a wooer, or wooesse, what shall I name it? that in expresse wordes Christiani matrimon. institut. he disalloweth it as Turpe non est juvenibus ambire spon­sam, quod vir ginibus sit indecorum. vnseemely. By the iudg­ment therefore of your owne witnesse it was a misbehauiour in Nais to be wooing. What? And was it not a misbehaviour al­so in her to be railing? to say vnto Hippolytus, that his mother was a Hirta duro caucasi tigris jugo. tiger, his father was a Aliquis tau­rus indomitꝰ. bull, him selfe a Superbe, du­re, crudelis. Pensabit ista Nemesis, & pēset precor. Aspicrat al­tum barbari fastum viri. Vlciscere Dia: pessimo leto occubet. proud, a cruell, a barbarous savage man? to banne him? to curse him? to wishe him the most horrible kind of death that might be? and all be­cause he would not leave his lawfull libertie to satisfie her lust? Or would your Erasmus haue reprooved me as Quid facias istis ingeniis tetricis, & ab omnibus gra­tiis alienis? rigorous, to say no more, for blaming this in a maiden; and him selfe haue liked it, Christ. ma­trim institut. who misliked in men that they faine and spread lewde reportes of such as yeeld not to their wooing? Truelie, for mine owne part, albeit Nais had not transgressed anie dutie with so fowle language, and might without impeachment of maidenly modestie, haue sued to be Hippolytus bedfellow: yet should I haue thought it a thing vnbeseeming a youth of tender yeares to be inured, and taught, how hee may by amorous speeches, lookes, and gestures, wooe for a husband, or a wife. But seeing she did that which can not be cleered of wantonnes and scurri­litie: my minor (notwithstanding the circumstance I mistook) is most true and certame for the branch concerning her. Yea, it is as certaine and true, with alteration of the name only, even for the very crime too wherewith I charged her in steede of her brother Pandarus: that is to say, for bawderie. Which worde why you should censure by terming it the brode name of baw­derie, I know not: sith the Latin wordes, leno, and lena, haue none in our English correspondent to them (for ought that I know) but a bawde; and lenocinium, bawderie. How commeth it to passe then that my vse of the English name should be faul­tie: where Pannic. Se­necae assut. you doe vse the O blanda vox, turpis (que) lenonū fide [...]. Latin without fault, I trust, and that in the person of modest, chast, Hippolytus? The truth is [Page 108] that I should haue spoken broder, so to terme it, and vsed wordes of greater eagernes and sharpnes. For his practise is bawderie, who entiseth any to single fornication. What is it farther to adulterie? What farther yet, to incest? And to doe this simply, as incestuous 2 Sā. 13. 11. Amnon did, were abominable. What, to doe it in such sort, as the Nunc luxus rape; &c. Hippol. act. 2 Nurse in Seneca? but chiefly as your Amoris ex­pers forma cui prodest nitens? &, Nata fit cer­vo patri con­jux: & vtero dama quein peperit, subit. Quanquam feruntur esse quoque gen­tes, vbi Et nata patri nubit, & nato parens; Et juncta crescit vinculo pie­tas duplo. Pannic. assut. Sen. act. 2. Pandarus? My speech was too minsing, when I named bawderie. If I had termed it most filthy beastly bawderie, my wordes had bene broder, though not brode enough yet. But to returne to mine argument, the maior and the minor beeing thus confirmed, the conclusion foloweth necessarily, and should haue bene graunted by you in my iudgement.

So many heads, so many wittes: your fansie lead you an o­ther way. And therefore, according to the young Scholers axi­ome, that alwayes when both the praemisses are true, the conclu­sion must be denied: You deny that the playing of your trage­dies and comedie is to bee misliked and censured as vnlawfull. To the fine perswading whereof you take advantage by some­what that I said: and the point of my sworde, which pearceth through the heart of your defense of playes, you striue (though in vaine, for want of strength) to draw out, and turne against my selfe. For, because I amplified the vnlawfulnes of the thing by the inconvenience and hurt which it breedeth, principally to the actors, in whom the earnest care of liuely representing the lewde demeanour of bad persons doeth worke a great im­pression of waxing like vnto them; next, to the spectators, whose maners are corrupted by seeing and hearing such matters so expressed: you encounter mee herein with two disputes; one, that neither the spectators of your playes, nor the actors, could re­ceve any hurt thereby; an other, that no evill affections could bee stirred vp thereby, but rather good. Which points it is a worlde to see how you struggle to proove by shewes of reason; and it will not fadge. Besides, were they prooved: my conclusion standeth neverthelesse entier, because neither of them doeth touch a heare of the praemisses. The shewes of reason firste, wherby you would proove that neither the spectators, nor actors could receue any hurt by your playes, are these; that for your pen­ning [Page 109] you are base and meane, as I see, (so you tell mee) and speci­ally for womanly behaviour you were so carelesse, that when one of your actors should haue made courtsie like a woman, hee made a legge like a man; and your spectators could not greatly charge your actors with any such diligence in meditation and care to im­print any passions. Of which three assertions the last is already disprooved in part by Nais: and your selfe, qualifying it with the worde greatly, declare that in your conscience your actors might bee charged with earnest meditation and care to imprint passions, though not greatly charged. The middest, of one actor forgetting his woman hoode, doeth no more argue that you were earelesse for womanly behaviour, and for other also, but specially for womanly: then the oversight of a Philostrat. vit. sophistar. in Polem: Greeke stage-player, who, when he said, O God, pointed to the ground; when he said, O earth, cast vp his hand to heaven ward, doeth argue that the Romans, Roscius, Aesopus, but specially the Greekes, were carelesse for seemely gesture on the stage. The formost, like the rest; and worthy to bee their ringleader for vntruth, or trifling. For neither doe I see, that in your penning you are base and meane, if you speake of all, and comprise loue-speeches too, as Hippolyte nescis quod fugis vitae bo­num: Hippo­lyte, nescis. Sed vror in­tus. Libamin [...] prima. Ro­sam primam. Mutua vra­mur face. O quam juvaret igne tam pul­chro mori! & quae sequuntur that of Nais: neither if you were so, is it any proofe that you could not hurt; for base and meane writers may vtter evill speeches, & 1. Cor. 15. 33 evill speeches corrupt good maners: and, beside your owne, you played Seneca too, whose penning neither Poetices li. 6. cap. 6. Scaliger, nor Animadvers. in tragae. Sen. Lipsius, nor Vlyss. red. prolog. & e­pilog. your selfe, doe vilifie as base; so that the very stile of somewhat, which you played, might worke strong impressions by your own verdict. Where­fore when of those three assertions you inferre, that neither the spectators, nor actors, could receaue any hurt by your playes: you dispute in like sort, as if to controll Nero. ca. 38. Suetonius and Annal. li. 15 Tacitus, who say, that, when Rome was burnt in Neros time, some did of purpose fire it, one should reason thus: The stuffe which those incendiaries did vse, was Stupa, taeda­que. Sueton. Faces. Tacit. towe and firebrands scarse kind­led, as you see: and specially for certaine of them, who brought that stuffe, they were so carelesse of setting fire on houses, that Vt raptus li­centius exer­cerent. Tacit. Dio Xiphili. epit. they fell to pillage, carying things away out of houses vnburnt; & such as they robbed and spoyled with sword and fire could not greatly [Page 110] charge them with any such diligence in paines and care to burne the citie: and so neither the citie suffred hurt by them, nor they did any hurt. Strange, that Suetonius and Tacitus should say the contrarie. But sometimes good Homer him selfe will fall a slum­bering. Now as you haue prooved thus, that neither actors nor spectators could receiue hurt by your playes: semblably you proove that no evill affections could be stirred vp therby, but ra­ther good. For in Ulysse reduce (say you) who did not love tho fidelitie of Eumaeus; and Philaetius, towardes their maister; and hate the contrary in Melanthius? who was not mooved to com­passion to see Ulysses, a great Lord, driven so hardly, as that hee was faine to be a begger in his owne house? who did not wish him well, and all ill to the wooers; and thinke them woorthily slaine for their bloody purpose against Telemachus, and other dissolute behaviour, not so much expressed on the stage, as imagined to bee done within? And so you goe forward with a troupe of questi­ons, urging it as certaine that all your spectators did admire the constancie of Penelope, and dispraise the lightnes and bad na­ture of Melantho, and thinke her iustlie hanged for it; all did prayse the patience, wisedome and secrecie of Ulysses, & Telema­chus his sonne; all were glad to see Vlysses restored to his wife; and goods, and his mortall enimies ouerthrowne and punished: againe, that in Rivates, all might be delited to see the fond beha­viour of country-wooing, expressed by civill men, or the vanitie of a bragging souldier; all might detest drunkennes by seeing the deformitie of drunken mariners actions: that in Hippolytus like­wise all yong men did wish them selues to be as chast as Hippoly­tus was; all the spectators detested the love of Phoedra; approved the grave coūsell of the Nurse to her in secret; none of them could be the woorse for her wooing Hippolytus in so generall termes; all did wish that Theseus had not bene so credulous; and were sory for the cruell death of Hippolytus. The most of which things you affirme they did, not meaning to pronounce of their secret thoughts, but that your playes were naturallie to woorke these effectes: as appeareth by that in some of the branches you say that the spectators might doe so, or so; yea, could not be the worse. And the same appeareth farther, by that you adde, that these & [Page 111] such like passions were, or might be mooved in your playes, with­out hurt, at the least, to any man: as in other tragedies, who doeth not hate (say you) the furie of Medea; the revenge of Atreus; the treason of Clytaemnestra, and Aegysthus; and the crueltie of Nero? Contrariwise who doeth not pitie the rage, and death of Hercules; the calamitie of Hecuba and her children; the infor­tunat valour of Oedipus; the murder of Agamemnon; the ba­nishment of Octavia; and such like? You take your selfe there­fore hereby to haue prooved that no evill affections could bee stirred vp by your playes in any: at the least, no evill; and many good perhaps. But why in the particular point touching Hip­polytus, in which it most behooved you (because of your new peece of Pandarus and Nais) to shewe that good affections might be stirred vp by his part in all, and no evill in any: Why demanded you, what young man did not wish himselfe to bee as chast, as Hippolytus was, if he were not so already? Why asked you not generally, as in the rest, who did not? was it because you thought, that some elder men did not wish them selves as chast, as hee was: but were stirred vp by Phaedras pangs, and Pandarus reasons, to wish the like motion had bene made to them? Or, that any maidens were vpon the stage, who could haue bene contented to become vnchast in yeelding to Hippo­lytus that which he would not graunt to Nais Amore nēpe Thesei casto furis? Sen. Hippolyt. chastlie? As for the young men of our Vniversitie who were present at it, I am hartilie glad if they were so minded: and doe reape my self the greater comfort of it, the more Oratione d [...] ­odecima. I haue commended his example to them. But if they wished so, when they saw your play: it came more of somewhat which they brought thither, then which they found there. For, by your instruction, the death of Hippolytus should haue serued to teach them, that they must never denie vnto a Nais, or Phaedra, such requestes: as Epilog. in Hippoly. Sen. your self tell them, on speech concerning wemen; Quas ne quis vnquam spernere dehinc audeat, Hippolytus ecce horribile documentum dedit; Impunè temnat nemo terrestres Deas. And what if all, who were present, not the young men only, did ad­mire the constancie of Penelope? Could no evill affection bee therefore stirred in anie by seeing a boy play so chast a part? [Page 112] Happy would Lucretia then haue thought her selfe. For shee was not inferiour in chastitie to Penelope: and when Tarquin saw her, he saw N [...] s [...]a ded [...]am lanae inter Incub [...]ā ­tes ancillas. [...]ivi [...]b. 1. her employed as a Prov. 31. 10 most vertuous woman. Yet, for all the wonderment he had of her vertue: he was more inflamed with loue of her beautie. Yea, Tarqum [...] mala libido Lucretiae per­vim stupran­dae capit: tum forma, tum spectata casti­tas incitat. the very sight of her chast behauiour stirred vp his wicked lust. Moreouer, if Vlys­ses begging in his owne house, did move all the spectators to have compassion of him, and thereby grew no hurt to them: yet into the actor might there grow some hurt by acquainting him self with hypocriticall faining of Vlyss. red. act. 1. & 3. lyes, Act. 2. & 3. hunger, beggerie, Act. 2. & se­quentibus. wrath, and shedding of blood. As Plutarc. vit. Ciceronis. Aesopus [...]. playing the part of A­treus in a tragedie (one of your examples of passions mooved, without hurt, at the least, to any man) grew to such a rage by thinking and advising how he might wreake his anger, and be revenged on Thyestes; that with [...] his Mace royall hee strooke one of the servants running by, and slew him. And beside this hurt that possibly might grow, there did grow the suffering of such things at Melanthius and Antinous handes, or Vlyssem cal­ce ferit. one of their heeles rather, as a At ego infe­lix neque ri­diculus esse, neque plagas pat [...] possum. Ter. Eunucho poore wretch in Terence thought too contumelious and base for him to suffer; & a Nisi qui co­laphos perpe­ti potis para­situs, frangi­que aulas in caput. Plaut. Captiv. Parasite in Plau­tus counted a peece of his trade. Which reprochfull patience if you thinke, I say not, that all who saw it, praised it (in saying so you blemish your spectators much;) but, that is was no hurt vn­to your actor of Ulysses, because (as you distinguished on Mamercorū alapas. Iu­uenals wordes thereof) hee is a poore Scholler: you are not of Faciem con­tumeliis ala­parum sic ob­ijcit, quasi de praecepto Domini ludat. Docet scilicet & Diabolus verberandam maxillam patienter offerre. Tert. de spe­ctac. cap. 23. Tertullians, and [...]. Gregor. Naz. orat. in laud. Basilii Magni. Nazianzenes minde, who note it for a staine in Scenici. Tert. ibid. cap. 22. [...]. Grego. Naz. what soeuer players, even in rascall Heathens; how much more would they, if not in Scholers, yet in Christians, whom Saint Paul exhorteth to Phil. 4. 9. doe only those things which vers [...] 8. [...]. a­dorne & set them out with coomly gravitie? Now, if some might be the woorse for beholding or playing of the best partes, the partes of Vlysses, and Penelope: what harme might they re­ceaue by the parts of the Wooers; of Melanthius, of Melantho, [Page 113] of a bragging souldier, of the drunken mariners, of the Nurse, of Phoedra? In some of which number your generall propositi­ons, that all the spectators must needes bee mooved thus or thus thereby, are vntrue. In the rest, nay, in these too, manifest is the weaknes of your particular conclusions, that because good thoughts might be stirred vp in all the spectators by this or that part, therefore those parts could hurt no man. Besides, if by those partes no hurt could come to any, yet might there much by o­ther which here you mention not: and so you come short of your conclusion generall, that no hurt could come to any by the passions that were mooved in your playes. Your generall propo­sitions doe faile in the wemen: of whom you speake in such sort, that as 1. Tim. 1. 1 [...]. some by putting away a good conscience, made ship­wracke of their faith: so it may bee feared that you, by putting trueth and singlenes away, will hazard the shipwracke of com­mon sense and reason. For when maried women doe committ adulterie, all are not displeased with their lightnes and bad na­ture, nor thinke them woorthie of death for it. David had an other opinion of Bathseba, in the 2. Sā. 11. 27 sacred storie; the foole in the Prov. 7. 22. Proverbes, of the strange woman; the Trojans, in Vly. red pro­log. & epilo. your Ho­mers, Iliad. lib. 3. Ilias, of Helena: and in his Odyss. lib. 8. Odyssea, the supposed Gods, that is to say, great persons, specially Mercurie, thought other­wise of Uenus. How can it bee then, that all should not onelie dispraise the bad nature and lightnes of Melantho, an vnma­ried harlot, but also account her iustlie hanged for it? whom it is more likely that some would haue stepped foorth to begge from the gallowes, at least the loving wooer, who had said vnto her; Pulcherrim [...] Melantho. O most faire Melantho, Dulcis Me­lantho. Vlyss. red. act 3. O sweet Melantho; if hee had thought that shee should haue bene hanged in earnest. Like probabilitie hath it, that all would approove the Nurses grave counsell given to Phoedra in secret: when the counsell giuen o­penlie to men, by the 2. Kin. 17. 13 Prophetes, by the Act. 2. 40. & 13. 50. & 17. 30. Apostles, yea, by Matt. 23. 37. Christ him selfe, wherwith this So players are termed in Greek writers commonlie; sometime in Latin also. And parhaps dissemblers in faith & reli­gion had that name by a metaphor drawne from the stage: as if they were playing other mens persons. hypocrites counsell deserveth not for gravitie to be named the same day, was not approved by all. As for that concerning Phoedra you demaund; who could be the worse for her wooing Hippolytus in so generall termes: aske Ael Spar [...] ­in Ant. Ca [...] ­callo. Caracallus the Emperour; in whose sight when his stepmo­ther [Page 114] Iulia, being madde with the same love to him-ward, that Phoedra to Hippolytus, did vncover and make bare, as it were through negligence, the most of her body, his heart conceived fyre straight, Vellem, si li­c [...]et. his toung disclosed it; and by her wooing of him Si libet, licet. An nescis [...]e imperatorem [...]se; & leges dare, non ac­cipere? in more generall termes, then Phoedra wooed Hippolytus, his consent was woon to her incestuous lust. But of all absurd spee­ches in this matter, that may beare the bell, that having asked who could be the woorse for her wooing Hippolytus in so generall termes, you inferre thereon: The drift whereof if it had bene to procure an honest honorable mariage, as it was covertlie to allure him to incest, he might very well haue listned to it. As if one of them, vnto whom Prov. 1. 14. Salomon attributeth this speech, Cast in thy lott among vs, wee will all haue one purse, should say that none could bee the worse for his entising in so generall termes: the drift whereof if it had bene to draw men to lawfull warre against ene­mies, as it was to vnlawfull spoiling of the innocent, they might very well haue listned to it. Your particular conclusions doe faile both in the women (for a surplusage of your former de­fault concerning them) & in the men also. For although Me­lanthos lightnes and bad nature had bene dispraised by all: yet some might be corrupted by Melanthos loosenes and Domina Pe­nelope sibi Dum nescio quā gloriam captat levē, Quot illa no­ctes perdidit flēdo bonas? Momēta pul­chri corporis spolium aufe­runt, Fragi­lisque res est forma: dum licet, vtere, & Arce quū Da­na [...] procos Arceret alta, quum fores clausae vndi (que) In imbre ve­nit Iuppiter tandē aureo, Praedam que victor abstu­lit: nulla au­reo Resistet imbri: ferre­as aurum tra­bes, Nedum puellas frāgit ac sternit solo bad lascivious talke, vnlesse Saint 1. Cor. 15. 33 Paul erred. And the graue coun­sell given vnto Phoedra by the Nurse in secret, might hurt vn­warie lovely youthes, as doeth a scorpion, with the Contemne famam: fama vix vero fa­vet, Pejus me renti melior, & pejor bono raile ther­of. And Phoedras generall termes might bee as 2. Sam. 20. 9 Ioabs right hand, wherewith he tooke Amasa by the beard to kisse him: when her speciall drift being no more covered thē Ioabs sword was, might in the meane season wound Amasa to death, and shed his bowells to the ground. The same is apparant in the scur­rilitie of Melanthius, the lewde or fonde trickes of the wooers, the vanitie of the bragging souldier, the beastlines of the drun­ken mariners. For Politicor. lib. 7. cap. vlt. Aristotle wishing a lawe to be made in all well ordered cities, that [...] hee saith, meaning such speeches (vsed to bee expressed in that kinde of verse) as there are a number vttered by Antinous, Eruymachus, with the like, in your Vlysses redux, and commonly in all tragedies. Aristot. de poet. young men should neither see tragedie [Page 115] played, nor Comedie, vntill in riper yeares they be past danger of being hurt thereby, groundeth his advise on reason and experi­ence; because things which young men receave, doe sticke fast by them: and therefore sith principall care ought to bee taken that they may proove vertuous, [...]. they should be kept frō hea­ring any ill speeches, and seeing any ill deedes; chieflie such deedes and speeches, as are lewde or hatefull. So that, where you tell vs in defense of the spectacle of your drunken mariners, that it was not possible that anie man should be provoked to drun­kennes thereby: albeit this were true, whereof yet I doubt, or ra­ther I dout not, considering that many are overprone to folow anie vice or evill, which they see or heare, as an Syr. Thomas Eliot in the Governor, lib. 1. cap. 4. & 6. autour praised by your selfe observeth out of dailie experience in childrē swea­ring great oathes, and speaking lascivious and vncleane wordes by such example of other; but if it were true, there might neuer­thelesse a deaw of that poyson, which Aristotle mentioneth, in­fect some tender buddes, and anoy their fruit by the drunken songs, by the drunken speeches, by the drunken gestures of those drunken beastes. The greater is your fault, who say, the Lacedemonians are commended for causing their slaves, beeing drunke in deede, to be brought before their children, that they see­ing the beastlie vsage of such men, might the more loth that vice: but you much better expressing the same intent, not with drun­ken, but with sober men, counterfeiting such vnseemelie manners, are the lesse therefore to be reprehended. Wherein how overth­warthly you affirme your selues to haue done much better then the Lacedaemonians, whose fact is commended; and yet con­clude that you are the lesse therefore to be reprehended, as if your conscience tolde you that either your fact is not like to theirs, or hath some notable difference whereby it is made worse and woorthy of reproofe, though of the lesse reproofe, the liker it is to theirs in part: we shall the more easilie perceaue, if we consi­der how the commender of it (why signified you not his name, or place?) Plutarch, Antiq. Lace­daemon [...]or. institut. doeth likewise by and by therevpon cō ­mend them for that [...]. they neither heard Comedie nor Trage­die, least they should in earnest, or iest, lende eare to those who gain said the lawes. For hereby I gather, that they did not pur­posely [Page 116] make their slaves drunken; against Xenophon. de repub. La­cedaem. their lawes had that bene: but [...] Pl [...]tar. saith, and not, [...]. when the slaves were drunke, they turned the ex­ample to their childrens benefite, that, by seeing swine wallow­ing in the myre of vomit, and so foorth, they might detest drū ­kennes. As with vs when theeves are hanged, or hoores car­ted, we shew them to our children, to breede a detestation of theft and hoordome in them. Wherevpon if Seius should say, it were much better that true men should faine them selves to be theeves, display some theevish pranke of theirs vpō a stage, and seeme to be hanged for it; or that chast maidens and yong men should coūterfeit the misdemeanour of hoores & knaves, and openly representing the filthy act of their vncleannes, bee taken in it, and putt to shame: your selfe, I am perswaded, would iudge his better to be woorse; at least in the latter point of knaves and hoores, because the shame, that lighteth on thē after the fact done, may profit the beholders; but the doeing of it, and of things tending to it, hath turpitude that may cor­rupt them. Which censure if you will apply to your fact com­pared with the example of the Lacedaemonians, you may see their drunken slaves doe little helpe to iustifie your mariners: because the [...]. rotton or stinking talke (as Ephe. 4. 29. Scripture termeth it) which your mariners vsed before and at their quaffing, would not haue bene suffered among the Lacedaemonians to be soong or said in their childrens hearing, no not by enterlude-players. Neither haue you greater reason to commende and extoll the woorthy play-felowes of your mariners by Catos name and credit, in that you aske; What Cato might not bee delited to see the fond behaviour of Country-wooing expressed by civill men, or the vanitie of a bragging soldier? For Cato, not the younger, whose Stoicall austeritie Orat pro Muraen. Tullie findeth fault with, but whom without such note De senect. he prayseth, the elder, Plutar. vita Caton. ma­jo [...]s. did put out of the number of Senatours one Manilius, because in the day time he had kissed his wife in his daughters sight: & him selfe tooke no lesse heed of speaking filthy woords in his sonnes presence, then he would haue done in presence of the Uestall virgins; nor ever would enter into the bathe with him, least his sonne should see him naked. And can you thinke that any of this [Page 117] mans disposition, what delite soever him selfe might haue ta­ken in that which could not taint his gravitie and constancie, would haue bene delited, delited? nay, contented to beholde the filth of your country-wooers in the mouthes & actions of Scholers like his sonne, before so great a companie both of sonnes and daughters; in whose Nil dictu s [...] ­dum visuque haec li [...]nina [...]angat Intr [...] quae puer est. eares, & eyes, a Iuven [...]l. sat. 14. Poët, no way comparable with Cato for severitie and care of vertuous nurtu­ring & training vp of youth, detesteth the expressing of any one such foolerie, as your country-wooers did expresse a number?

As for the vanitie of your bragging souldiour, I marvell that intending to proove there could no evill affection bee stirred vp thereby in anie, you durst mention Cato: whē I had shewed that In prolog. Capuuor. Plautus, a farre looser person, and better experienced in mat­ters of this kinde, doeth note that Profectò ex­pediet fabulae huic operam dare. Hic ne­que pe [...]iurus leno est, nec meretrix ma­la, Neque mi­les gloriosus. mens maners are woont to be corrupted and made worse by playes which haue a bawde, or boore, or bragging souldier in them. The dissolute behaviour of your courtly-wooers, you say, was not so much expressed on the stage, as imagined to be doon within. Not so much on the stage: much on the stage therefore; and in deed too much. Yet this would proove, I graunt, that small harme could be done by the playing of their partes, vnlesse that were true which the Scrip­ture saith: lam. 3. 5. How great a pile of wood how litle fire kindleth? Melanthius alone of all the sorts, or varlets, whom you name­lie specifie, hath no amplification of Lacedaemonians, or Cato; no extenuation of not so much on the stage, to grace the vngra­tiousnes of his fowle scurrilitie. The likelier is Aristotles sen­tence and autoritie to prevaile with you, that yong men might be stained by hearing of his railing, his [...] such as these are; Eumoee impudens, Quo gurgitē hunc tristem­que mensarú omniú vo [...]a­ginem ipsam ducis, & verè infimum Ba­rathrum ma­celli? liminibꝰ humeros sibi Detriuit iste pluribꝰ; qua­dram aptior. Purgare lin­gua, quàm quatere iacu­lum manu. &c. Vlyss r [...]d act. 2. Iambicall speeches, as Aristotle termeth them. At least Syr Thomas Eliots In the Go­vern lib. 1. cap. 27. wordes of playing at footeball, that therein is nothing but beastly furie, & extreeme violence, whereof proceedeth hurt, and consequentlie rancour & malice doe remaine with them that be wounded, may moove you to thinke that there was daunger of anoying our youth by Melanthius action, Vlysse [...] cal­ce [...]. striking and girding (like Si­lenus Calce [...]eritur aselh. Ovid Fastor. lib. [...]. asse) at Vlysses with his heele. For boyes affecting foote­bale, will argue peradventure, that seeing such horseplay was vsed by Melanthius, & he might strike Vlysses body with his [Page 118] foote; more lawfull should it bee for them to strike a ball so: and what Cato would not be delited to see them breake one an others shinnes? or who was that vicechancellour, what a con­vocation, that made our Vniversitie statute to the contrarie? Thus are your particular conclusions overthrowne, euen by those passions which the parties mentioned might imprint in others. How much more in them selues? Whose mindes in what danger they are of infection, by meditating and studying sundrie dayes, or weekes, how to expresse the manners of wan­tons, or drunkards, or country-wooers lively, the seeing wher­of played but an hower, or two, might taint the spectators: I wish with all my hart, that I may rather seeme in vaine to have feared, then they should by experience feele. Your conclusion generall faileth more and more yet, because evill affections might be stirred vp by other partes then these: as namelie, by your new parts of Pandarus and Nais. The former, after a sort confessed by your selfe, in that you demaund; who could be the woorse for Phoedras wooing Hippolytus in so generall termes? For this doeth insinuate that through Pandarus wooing him i [...] speciall termes, so speciall, that incestuous Fit equo sua filia coniux, Quasque cre­ [...]it, init pe­cudes caper. &, Gentes ta­men esse fe­ [...]ntur, in qui bus & nato genitrix, & [...]ata parenti Iungitur; vt pietas gemi­nato crescat amore. Myrrha went no farder (as Metamorph. lib. 10. Ovid thought fitt to describe it) not in her secret Et secū, Quò mente feror? quid molior? inquit. &c. thoughts, some might be the woorse. The later, most evident by that which is Lucian. quo modo hist. scribend. sit. recorded to haue come to passe in the Citi [...] of Abdêra. Where, when at midsummer, in very hottweather, Andromeda (a Tragedie of Euripides) being played, manie brought home a burning ague from the theater: about the se­venth day folowing, they were ridde thereof, some by much bleeding, some by sweating, but all, as soone as they were ab­roade out of their beddes, did fall into a strange distemper and passion of a light phrensie. The which exciting them to say & cry aloude such things as were sticking freshly in their memo­rie, and had affected most their minde, [...]. they grewe all to Tra­gedie-playing, and full lustilie they sounded out [...]. Iambicall speeches: their toungs harping chieflie on Euripides, Andro­meda, and the [...]. melodious woords of Perseus touching love. So that the whole citie was full of pale and thinne folke, pro­nouncing like stage-players, and braying with a loude voice. [Page 119] [...]. But O Cupido, prince of Gods and men, with the rest of that part: vntill at length the winter and colde, waxing great, asswa­ged their distemper, and eased them of their frantike follie. A woorde to a wise man is enough. That speech, But O Cupido, Prince of Gods and men, vttered vnder Perseus, that is, a mans person, was of all likely hoode lesse pearcing and patheticall, then yours, O quàm iuvaret igne tam pulchro mori, vttered by Nais, a woman, and a Nymph. It was well that shee played in winter, not in summer. For Herodo [...]. Polymn. O­vid. Meta­morph. li. 4. Perseus loved Andromeda in the way of mariage too, as Nais did Hippolytus. But the force of love-pangs, and the care of lawfulnes, ioyne not their dwel­ling houses together still in all heartes. Wherefore you are so farre off from having prooved that no evill affection could bee stirred vp in anie by your playes: that I can hardlie remember any evill affection, which might not be stirred vp thereby in many; not onely in the actors, but the spectators also. And I thinke your selfe, if you peruse advisedly this whiche I haue written, and diligentlie compare it with your Vlysses redux, Rivales, and Hippolytus, will take time of respitt before you name as much as one inordinate passion; whereto I shall not quote, at least one players part, perhaps two, or three, that may be as oile vnto the fire. Howbeit, had you prooved the contra­rie hereof, yet is my conclusion entier, as I said, and your playes vnlawfull: because it is vnlawfull to imitate and resemble any misbehaviour; and your selfe can not denie but sundry lewd­nesses were imitated and resembled in eche of your playes.

Herein is that confuted withall by the way, which other­where you mention as an intent sufficient to iustifie & warrant your coming on the stage: namely that you doe it to practise your style, either in prose or verse; to bee well acquainted with Seneca, or Plautus; honestly to embolden your youth; to trie their voices, & cōfirme their memories, to frame their speech; to conforme them to convenient action; to trie what mettall is in everie one, and of what disposition they are. For although you aimed at all these things, and hitt them, which as I haue shewed in one branche to bee false, so must you graunt it in some other; vn­lesse you will saye, that to arme a youth with a I [...]. [...]. [...]. whoores [Page 120] forehead, is honestly to embolden him; or, by trying what metta [...] is in every one, you meane the occasioning of thē to giue proofe whether their Esai. 48. 4. browes bee made of brasse; but admitting all were even as you pretend: yet your stage-playing being convi­cted of vnlawfulnes, your pretēses for it are grinded all to pow­der; Rom. 3. 8. iust is their damnation, who say, Let vs doe evill that good may come thereof. Our great and first parents, Gen. 3. 5. seduced by the serpent, did eate of the fruit of the forbidden tree: to the in­tent that they might become like to God, and knowe both good and evill. The Heb. 5. 14. knowledge of good and euill, is to be wished: but because the Gen. 2. 17. meanes was ioyned with disobedience, it had bene better for them to haue lacked that knowledge. Among the Lacedaemonians, Xenoph. de rep. Lacedae­mon. boyes by their publike order were instru­cted, and through want of vittalls were provoked to steale meat: that being occasioned thereby to watch at night, while others were sleeping, and to lye in wait by day time for their pray, they might be the skilfuller to circumvent & spoile their enemies in warre.

The end good and commendable, as he who 2. Sam. 22. 35. Psal. 144. 1. taught Da­vid to fight, assureth vs: but Deut. 5. 19. 1 Sam. 25. 7 David was not taught it by pil­fering and stealing. Parmeno in Eunuch. act. 5. scen. 4. Terence telleth what com­moditie Chaerea might purchase by cōming into Thais ho [...]se: to bee acquainted with the nature and manners of harlots, that knowing them betime he might for ever hate them. To hate thē, is a qualitie Psal. 13 [...]. 21. beseeming vertuous persons: but who so by ac­quaintance with them doe seeke to hate them, are likelie to be evill qualified; for Prou. 6. 28. can a man goe vpon coales, and his feete not be burnt? But here you will reply percase that in Chaerea, beside the good effect which Parmeno did boast of, some bad effects might fall out, Act. 3. scen. 5 through the seeing of Iupiters picture with Danaë, and being neere to Pamphila: which in your playes cā not be feared. But I have prevented this reply by shewing that Arce quum Danaë pro­cos Ar [...]eret [...]lta, &c. Vlyss. red. act. 3. your Danaes picture with Melanthos talke may breede some bad effectes in a Chaerea too, though he were a beholder onely of your playes, much more if he be a player him selfe. Where­fore if a dead flye doeth cause the sweet ointment of the Apothe­carie to stinke, as the Eccles. 10. 1. wise man saith: what a lothsome savour [Page 121] must needs so great store of such caraine breed in the perfume of eloquence, into the which you cast it? Beside that, to come neerer you, the ointment and perfume itselfe commended by you, hath a rammish smell, and stinketh like a goate: as a good Apothecarie, and of verie quicke sent, Quinuliane vagae mode­rator summe inventae, glo­ria Romanae Quintiliane togae. Mart. lib. 2. epi­gram. 90. Quintilian, I meane, acknowledgeth and avoucheth. For he, Orator. in [...]ti­tut. lib. 1. ca. 14. requiring In primis. chieflie that young and tender mindes nō modòqu [...] diserta, sed vel magis qu [...] honesta sunt, discant. should not onely learne such things as are well vttered, but, & that much rather, such things as are honest; forbiddeth them to reade at all any poëmes of Vtique, qu [...] ama [...]. a­matorie fansies, at least, Ad firmius aetatis robu [...] reseruentur. till they bee growen to greater matu­ritie of yeares, and strength of age. In which sort hee alloweth them to reade Menanders Comedies also, and others, Quum mo­res in tuto fu­erint. Vide li. 2. cap. 2. Whē they be past daunger of having their manners corrupted. And their Lib 2. cap. 1 & 4. &. 11. style he willeth to be exercised in commō places, either against vices, or touching doubtfull questions; in praysing good, dispray­sing evill: in reporting trueth; in defense of innocencie; and the like matters that may serve an Orator, vir. bonus. Lib. 1 in proaem. & lib. 12. cap. 1 honest man in vse of life. Their Lib 2. ca. 8. memorie he wisheth to be cōfirmed by learning without booke, sometime somewhat of their owne, well penned; but principally, places elected and chosen out of orations, or stories, or other kind of Dignorum ea cura volu­minum. writings worthy that care and studie; that they Assuescent optimis. may accu­stome themselves to the best, and have their style holpen manie wayes thereby. Finallie, for Lib. 1. ca. 19 framing of speech, voice, and ge­sture, he would not haue them imitate the voice of Women, or old men; nor expresse the fautes of drunkennes; nor be taught to play the slaves; nor learne the affection and passion of love, of co­uetousnes, of feare. Which things are neither necessarie, saith he, Oratori. for an oratour; and Mentem, praecipuè in aetate prima teneram ad­huc & rudem inficiunt. they doe corrupt the minde, in childhoode specially, while it is tender yet and vnacquainted with things; be­cause Frequēs imi­tatio transis in mores. such as those are whom we imitate much, such our selves become. Behold the great difference betweene a heathen mans conceit of the instructing of oratours for civill causes: & yours, of Christian Preachers, or what soeuer place your Studentes shall be called to in Church or Common weale, at least of ho­nest men and Christians.

Hee would haue no amatorie poëmes, neither Comedies, no not Lib. 10. ca. 1. Menanders, that is, the Omnibus [...]iusdem ope­ris autoribus abstulit no­men. best of all to be read by his [Page 122] youth: you, as if Phaedras amorous speech expressed by Seneca were nothing without a pe [...]ce of menstruous cloth sowed to it, doe occasion yours to make them selves familiar and well ac­quainted with Plautus, Horat. de art. poet. vi­ves lib. 3. de tratend. dis­ciplin Scalig. poetic. lib. 6. cap. 3. one farre beneath the best. He would haue his youth to practise their style in good things, as in Arma sunt hac quodāmo do praeparā ­da semper, vt his, quum res poscet, vtaris. wea­pons, which they may vse when neede shall be: you practise yours in speeches entising men to Uenerie, to ribauderie, to scurrili­tie, to hoordom, to incest, to other abominations. He would haue his youth to commit most excellent thinges and wordes to memorie; you pester yours with filth, such filth in Rivales (I am ashamed to reherse it) as can not be matched, I thinke, sure very hardly, throughout all Plautus. Hee would not haue his youth Femineae vo­c [...]s exilitate frangi. to counterfeit a womans voice: you procur [...] Minerva, Penelope, Euryclea, Antonoë, Eurynome, Hippo­damia, Melantho, Phaedra, the Nurse, the Nymph, besides I know not whom in the vnprinted Comedie, to bee played by yours. Hee would Nec vitia [...] ­brietatis ef­fingat. not have his youth to represent the faults of drunkennes: yours must flant it out in most vnmodest guise, with vnseemely barbarous carousing songes and speeches, and be defended too by the brave example of Lacedaemonian slaves. Hee would Nec seruili vernilitate imbuatur. not haue his youth to bee imbrued and tainted with slavish behaviour: for yours it is an ornament to play the goteheard Melanthius, or a bragging souldier, or a clownish wooer. In fine, hee would Nec amoris discat affe­ctum. not haue his youth to learne the passion of amorousnes and loue; Plu [...]imum aberit à sce­nico gestu. nor to bee stage-player-like in action and gesture: you breede yours in stage-playing, as conforming them to convenient action; and teach them to resem­ble the panges of loue in maner of most amorous Nymphes, with O quàm iu­ [...]aret igne tā pulchro mo­ri. burning exclamations, and Tu nostris, precor, Nym phas amare [...]e puta in syluis nefas. Aurora Ce­phalo, Sal­macis puero suo, Adoni­de venus Lat­mio iuvene & tua, Hip­polyte, quon­dam exarsit [...] arcitenens Dea. In tam beato, quaeso [...]umeremur grege. fansies of Poëticall fables. S ^t Confession. lib. 1. cap. 16 [...]. Austin reprooving the course of the world which traineth vp their children in Poëts wanton tales of Iupiters adulteries, and vseth to defend their custome by saying, Hence are wordes learned, hence is eloquence gotten: forsooth, saith hee, belike wee could not know these wordes, imbrem aureum, and gremium, and fucum, and templa caeli, and the rest there written, vnlesse ^f Te­rence had brought in a lewde young man proposing Iupiter to him selfe for an example of hooredome, while hee beholdeth on the [Page 123] wall a certaine painted table, wherein was this picture; how Iu­piter sent a Imbrem [...] ­reum. golden shower, they say, of olde time into the Gremium. lappe of Danaë, Fucum. vnder the colour thereof to beguile a woman. And see how he stirreth vp himselfe to lust as it were by the instruction of a heavenly maister. But what God? saith hee. Even that God which shaketh Templa [...] the sanctuaries of heaven with thunder. Should not I, who am a mortall wretch, doe the same? Yes in deed I did it, and gladly. Non omnin [...] per hanc tur­pitudinē ver­ba ista com­modius dis­cuntur; sed per haec ver­ba turpitudo ista confidē ­tius perpetra­tur No, no, saith S. Austin, those wordes are not learned the more conveniently by meanes of this dishonestie: but this dishonestie is wrought the more confidently by meanes of those wordes. Thus did that discreete and godly Father iudge of causing such devises of Poëts to bee learned by children yea although the Poëts were as good as Terence and the childrē as well inclined as himselfe. For him selfe it is, of whom Aug. confess. lib. 1. cap. 15 hee confesseth that Didici in [...] multa verba vtilia: sed & quae in [...] non vanis di­sci possunt; & ea via [...] est in qua pu­ [...]ri ambula­rent. hee learned many profitable wordes in vaine, Poëticall fansies; but such as both may bee learned in thinges not vaine, & that is a safe way wherein children ought to walke. On which consideration sundry men of note in our memorie also, not onely among professors of purer religion, but even among the Papists, haue advised Scholemasters & instructors of youth either not to read Terence to their Scholers, or if they will read him, not to read him all. De tradend. disciplin. li. 3. Ludovicus Uives, having declared in generall out of [...]. Plutarch touching the reading of Poëts, that, vnlesse you vse it most warily, it hurteth; and therefore, if a childe may be allowed to meddle with it, their writinges would be purged first, & filthy matters be wholly cut out of them: Doth wish the same concerning Terence in speciall for those thinges which might defile the mindes of children with such faultes and vices, as naturally wee are prone to. Ignatius Loiola, a man no worse minded in certaine pointes then were the olde Iewish Act. 23. 8. Pharises, whose Mark 7. 9. sect in his ofspring of Iesuits hee hath re­nued, Petr. Ma [...]. vita Ign. Loi. lib. 3. cap. 8. did forbidde Terence to bee reade in schooles (vnlesse he were purged) least hee should more anoy their maners by his wantonnes, then by his Latin helpe their wittes. Epist. ad Au­gustum Du­cem Saxoni [...]. Georgius Fa­bricius, not seeing how he may be well purged to this purpose, because the conditions of fond or bad persons, as of lovers, [...]oores, murmurers, mizers, fretters, ruffians, varlets, flatterers, [Page 124] boasters, bawdes, and sycophants, that is, the most of those things which Comedies entreate of, belong to stronger mindes, and to an age confirmed and stayed with some judgement, not to vnskilfull children, before whom they are better omitted and concealed; Fa­bricius therefore grounding him selfe vpon the iudgement of Politicor. li. 7 cap. v [...]t. Aristotle, and Lib. 1. ca. 14 Quintilian, both applyed to Terence, resol­veth that hee is not to bee read at all to youths of tender yeares. Wherevnto a light of our vniversitie and country, D. Humfrye, subscribeth and agreeth, in that vpon occasion of shewing how Noblemens children and Gentlemens should bee brought vp in learning, Laur. Hum­fred. de nobi­lit. lib. 3. he saith that they may haue Terence reade vnto them, but them, when they shall be growen in age and iudgement. Though douting least even then too the Si quid insit obscaeni, fide­lis diligentia boni praecep­toris medea­tur: & alio­ [...]um librorum l [...]ctio, tan­quam phar­macum, pel­lat quicquid [...] est toxicū. poyson of his filthines may be more forcible then the coūter-poyson to be vsed against it he addeth that hee would not graunt him this place neither in their education, but that Tullie had made good account of him, and prosited in eloquence by him. Now the same reasons, that, in choise of autours to be read by vs, exclude so fine a Poët, and send vs vnto purer fountaines of good literature: doe likewise in the practise of style, the frame of speech, and imployment of memorie, exclude such points and matters as Terence is exclu­ded for, and commend vnto vs more commendable arguments to exercise our wittes, our tounges, our pennes in. Which the wise Founders and Governours of the worthy Colleges and companies of Students here among vs did very well consider: taking order therefore that by rendring and rehearsing of A­ristotle; or Tullie; by writing, pronouncing, declaiming, dispu­ting, of questions in sundry faculties and artes, the vse whereof may serue them afterward to purpose, young men should bee made the readier and fitter to confirme the truth, to confute errours, to dehort from evill things, and instruct to good. Neither doeth your suttle matching and comparing of these scholasticall exercises with enterludes and playes, in as much as you tell mee that if I had but said that your playes are toyes, vnnecessarie, vaineit had bene no more perhaps then is, in strict­nes, true, because L [...]k. 10. 4 [...]. vnum modò necessarium; and hee, that had tried all things, of his owne wise experience pronounceth, Eccles. 1 [...]. 8. vanitas [Page 125] vanitatum, & omnia vanitas, yea, even learning, and wisedome, and all thinges else, except the feare of God which endureth for ever, & you haue heard a godly & a learned Preacher in the pul­pitt affirme, that our declamations, oppositions, suppositions, and such scholasticall exercises, are no better then vaine things: but these three autorities, wherein you saw not strength sufficient to perswade you that your playes are certainlie vnnecessarie and vaine, (your speech cōcerning them you lay in water with per­haps;) doe not convince in deede our disputations, declamati­ons, with the like exercises, to be so. For when our Saviour said that [...]. one thing is needfull, speaking of Luk. 10. ver. 42. the good part which Marie had chosen in that ver. 39. shee heard [...]. his preaching, the word of God preached by him: he did not by commending the need­fulnes of the ende, condemne the meanes, as needlesse, wherby the ende is attained to. Nay, hee did imply rather that the meanes are consequentlie needfull: as if a naturall man should say, We must liue, his meaning were that wee must haue suste­nance to live by. And how shall men Rom. 10. 1 [...] heare the word of GOD preached, vnlesse there be Preachers to expound it? How can Preachers expound it, vnlesse they learne the way of 2. Tim 2. 15 cutting it aright and applying it? How can they learne the way ordinari­lie: vnlesse they be trained vp in Logike and Rhetorike? The necessarie vse whereof for the sound interpreting of Scripture, it may be that you heard Praelectioni. in epist. ad Coloss. cap. [...] ver. 8. me shewe against the Brownists, as well as you heard the Preacher whom you speake of: or if you did not, Saint De doctr. Christ. lib. 2. cap. 31. & se­q [...]entibus. Austin, or De rat. stud. theolog. lib. 1. cap. 4. Hyperius, may serve to informe you. The a [...]tes then of Rhetorike & Logike are requisit to prea­ching of the woord. And the exercises of declaiming, answe­ring, opposing, doe helpe to breede ripenes in those artes. Our Saviours sentence therefore that one thing is needfull, argueth not these exercises to be vnnecessarie. No more doth Salamons saying that all things are vanitie, proove them to be vaine. For out of Heb. HAC­COL w ^t HE (an article as it were) ex­pressed & ex­pounded by Tremellius & Iunius, Eccl. 1. 2. & 12. 10 those all things him selfe doeth except, the Eccle. 12. 13 feare of God (as you note) and (as you should haue noted) the keeping of Gods commaundements. Wherefore sith our Students be com­maunded by God Luk. 19. 13. to employ the pieces of moony that hee hath given them, in trade and traficke as it were, to make gai [...]e therof; [Page 126] and the trade, wherein they must employ their time, is, to gett them selves all instrumentes of learning, by whiche they Tit. [...]. 9. may be able to [...] exhort with wholesome doctrine; and [...]. convince such as gainsay it: their practise of exhortatorie and convincing faculties, of declamations, of elenches, of oppositions and supposi­tions, can not be condemned, as vaine, by his woord, by whom Mat. 25. ver. 26. the evill servant is condemned, as ver. 30. vnprofitable, for ver. 25. hyding his talent in the earth. Well may you haue heard a Preacher in the pulpitt affirme that which you mention: but I doubt whe­ther you vnderstoode him well. For you alleage him so, as if he had pronoūced those exercises simply, & in them selves, vaine: Which it were iniurious to thinke, that a learned and a godli [...] Preacher (such doe you report him; and I, not knowing who it was, doe beleeve you) should purpose to affirme: feing Christ; Heb. 7. 27. whose mouth was never defiled with toy or anie vaine thing, vsed certaine of them, as oppositions namely. For what are Aristot. To­pic. li. 1. & 8. op­positions but arguments obiected against a point in question? What was it but an argument obiected so by Christ, when a­gainst the Mat. 22. ver. 23. Sadduces, denying the resurrection, ver. 31. he vrged a text of Moses? and against the ver. 42. Pharises, holding no more of Christ but that he was Davids sonne, a ver. 43. testimonie of David? Yea, in this later he did that which of all things in our disputa­tions might seeme to be most vaine, obiect ver. 45. against a trueth, although with purpose for the trueth. It is not to be thought then, that the Preacher, terming our exercises vaine, meant that they are such simply and in them selves; but as they are vsed by vs, by many of vs, to sundry fruitlesse endes, not to make vs fitter for the [...]ph. 4. 29. good and [...]. need full edifying of men: nor to advance 1. Tim. 4. 8. godlines profitable for all things, but to encrease or make a shew of Eccles. 1. ver. 13. that knowledge, which therfore is called ver 14. va­nitie by the wise man, because it hath ver. 3. no permanent and la­sting commoditie, ver. 15. nor bringeth vs salvation and eternall life. Whereof it doeth no more folow that the exercises are vaine, as you conclude; then if one should reason that the feare of God, (which you except) is vaine, vpon that place of Esay, Esai. 29. 13. Their f [...]are toward me is taught by the precept of men. For, if, notwith­standing that Mat. 15. 9. the Iewes worshipped and feared God in vaine, [Page 127] fearing him amisse according to the precepts of men, not to his woord, yet the feare of God is most beneficiall, and Mal. 3. 1 [...]. was to some among the Iewes too: then may declamations, suppositi­tions, oppositions, and such schol [...]sticall exercises be profitable & fruitfull, even vnto some among vs also, though many of vs make them vanitie of vanities, as vaine as that 2. Tim. 2. 14 strife is which Saint Paul reprooveth, I meane, both [...]. voide of wholesome iuice, & [...]. ful of poyson. But to what purpose are these discour­ses, will you say, of exercises fitt for scholers, and Terence not to be read vnto them, till they be of riper yeares & iudgement? To let you vnderstand, that whereas you tell vs, you come vpon the stage to practise your style, to acquaint your selues with Plau­tus, to embolden your youth, to trye their voices, confirme their memories, frame their speech and action; you are so farre from iustifying your playes by this defense, that you condemne thē more. For if the tale of Iupiter with Danaë, in Eunuchus, should not be read to such as your Melantho and Nais: much lesse should they be taught the same tale Nulla [...] [...]esistet imb [...]i. vrged farther, in Vlysses [...]edux; and lesse yet another tale of Ovid Meta­morph lib. 4. wanton Salmacis Salmac [...] puero suo. with her boy; in Hippolytus. If they should not as much as salute Te­ [...]ence, the finest Comicall Poët, for purenes of the Latin toung in Limone, a­pud Dona [...]ū in vita Te­ren [...]. Tullies iudgement: much lesse should they be made well acquainted with Plautus; and lesse yet with Rivales. If they should not be suffered to peruse writings of base & filthy qua­litie, nor to cast their eyes, as it were, vpon them: much lesse should they engraue them by heart in their remembrance, ex­presse them with voice, commend them with action, deliver them with boldnes. If they should not exercise their style, their speech, their memorie, but in honest, vertuous, and commen­dable matters, which in vse of lise may serve them to good pur­pose: much lesse should they meditate how they may inflame & tender youth with loue; entise him to daliance, to hoordom, to incest; inure their mindes and bodyes to vncoomly, disso­lute, railing, boasting, knavish, foolish, brainsicke, drunken conceits, woordes, and gestures. Wherefore to the Timothees, that are among your Students, I must say in like sort as Saint Paul to Timothee: 2. Tim. [...]. [...]. Consider what I say; and the Lord giue you [Page 128] vnderstanding in all things.

Now, the inconveniences and mischiefes of your playes be­ing so notorious and manifold, as I haue shewed: the rest of mine answer opposed to your reasons devised for their defense, will easilie deliver it selfe from your cavills. For where you ha­ving said that your Students did not misspend their time there­in, because they spent no more time then vseth to be spent in sports, sleepe, talke, and learned releasing of the minde from studie; and having added thereto that, sith there is a time for sportes, playes, danses, and man consisting not of one part alone doeth neede re­creation, therefore you may be stage-players; I answered to the former, that by the like reason a student haunting a dicing house, or taverne, or stewes, might proove that he did not misspend his time thereat; to the later, that recreation is necessarie for Schol­lers, yet would it not beseeme them to play at stoole-ball amonge wenches, nor at Mumchance or Maw with idle lost compani­ons; nor at trunkes in Guile-halls, nor to danse about Maypoles, nor to rifle in alehouses, nor to carowse in Tavernes, nor to steale Deere, nor to robbe Orchyards: you reply that to compare your playes to these things, it exceedeth the compasse of any tollerable resemblance; and therevpon eftsoones you surname them hard and incomparable comparisons. Wherein howe incompara­bly you lavish out of measure, and exceede the compasse of any reasonable speach, you may quickly see, now that I haue proo­ved your playes to be evill: si [...]h these things being likewise e­vill and disorderlie, and so agreeing with them in a generall point, it is cleere they may be resembled therevnto.

The Scripture compareth Mat. 25. 27. our Saviour to an [...]. vsurer, who desireth gaine by the moony hee lendeth; Luk. 16. 8. the children of light to an vniust steward, who maketh him selfe frendes with his mai­sters goods against a time of neede, 1. Thes. 5. 2. the coming of the Lorde [...] day to a thiefe in the night, who cometh suddenly and vnloo­ked for. Comparisons not tollerable, if the speciall qualities of vsurers, of vniust men, of the [...]ves, should bee meant: but very good and fitt, if wee marke the generall points that they are matched in. Or, if Scripture-eloquence, which yet S ^t De doctrin. Christ. lib. 4. [...]p. 6. Austin magnifieth, seeme base in your eyes; though, seeme it never so [Page 129] base, I trust you will not say that to compare our Saviour, and so foorth, to these things, it exceedeth the compasse of any tolerable resemblance: but the eloquence, the learning, the autoritie of Homer, whose witt ( Vlyss red. Prolog. & e­pilog. you say) Illuminatut & homines si­mul & Deos. enlightned both men and Gods together, whose Dignetur hu­milem tanta maiestas tua Induere soc­cum. maiestie you worshippe with Haurire [...]y­athum font [...] nos largo si­ne. prayer and Benignita [...] gratias agi­mus [...]ae. thankesgiuing, to Aeterna maneat gl [...] ­ria in terris tibi. whom you wish eternall glorie, and call him Nam quis ae­terno seni Par esse po­terit? the eternall olde man, will suffice to open your eyes and stoppe your mouth. For he compareth Iliad. lib. 11. m lib. 16. valiant Aiax to an asse, that being in a corne-field will not bee driven out with any cudgels of boyes till he haue filled his belly; the ^m Grecians and Troians a­bout Sarpedons carkasse, to flies about a milke-paile in a warme spring-time, all busy and loth to leaue it. There are Hieron. vid. & Lud. viv. lib. 3. de tra. disciplin. who finde fault with these comparisons, I graunt, as overbase and abiect: but your adoration of Homer doeth perswade me, that you will make more of Iul. Scalig. poetic. lib. 5. cap 3. his censure, who, for the generall drift thereof, approoveth them. At least you shall be forced to yeeld by your owne wordes, in as much as having compared our reproofe of your expense in playes to Matt. 26. [...] their speech who saide of the costly ointment powred vpon Christes head, what needed this wast? and being tolde the difference of that fact from yours; you say, that though you knowe there is an infinite difference betwene yours and the action against the which it was hypocritically first vsed: yet you thinke it may also bee applyed against, either the niggardise, or the hypocrisie of any Momus, that shall condemne all expense as cast away, that is sometimes moderatly bestowed vpon honest sports and pastimes. For how can it be chosen but to compare your charges on playes to those on Christ, must needes exceede the compasse of any tolerable resemblance: vn­lesse things agreeing in a generall point, as you suppose (though falsly) these to doe in honestie, may be very well resembled eche to other? And Quis tule [...] Gracchos d [...] seditione que rentes? Iuve­nal. sat. [...]. why should you reproove it in me as a hard in­comparable deede: when you thinke it comparable and soft in your own case? Chiefly, sith you know, that even in the degree of honest matters too, whereon expenses are made, there is an in­finite difference betwene the actions, which you match: I can not say so of those that I compare. Nay, some of the thinges that I compare your stage-playes with, are lesse evill; as name­lie, [Page 130] for scholers to play at stooleball among wenches: which to doe by day light, in open streetes, in their owne likenes, were not so vnmeete and inconvenient for them, as to be attired in wemens raiment, by wemen, within doores, in the night time, to goe to and fro, and come vpon the stage, and play Melan­tho, or Nais. Contrariwise, the action wherewith you match yours; was infinitely better, as your selfe acknowledge: and had, as you must also acknowledge, [...], or [...], it was estee­med by thē, who am­plified it to the vtter­most. Mark. 14. 5. Ioh. 12 5. And that may amount to nine or ten pound of our moony. lesse bestowed thereon, then yours had. So that your consequution doeth halt here againe; It was no wast to bee at lesser cost in woorking a good woorke on Christ; Ergo it is no wast to bee at greater charges in setting foorth of playes. But mine is vnreprooveable; It besee­meth not scholers to play at stooleball among wenches, though mo­dest and chast; Therefore it beseemeth them not to play wanton wemen on the stage. The same may I say of the two compari­sons, which herewithall you checke; the former, alleaged out of Salvianus, or out of Scripture rather; the later, adioyned by mee for illustrating and opening the former: to weete, that with the players of lewde and naughty parts it fareth as with ae foole committing wickednes in pastime; and they are like a mad man, who casteth firebrands, arrowes, and mortall thinges, and saith, was I not in sport? For a mad man casting firebrandes, and the like, endangereth bodies onely: the players of lewde parts doe endanger sowles. And a foole commiting wickednesse in pastime hath seldome many admirers and folowers to hurt: the players haue as many, as a great Theater holdeth, and can heare them say, But O Cupido, or, O quàm juvaret. Wherefore when you amplifie herevpon, and tell me, you could haue wisht that such comparisons had bene forborne, if not for the playes them selves, though also they ought for the playes them selves, being thinges that savour of some witt, learning, and iudgement; yet in respect of the actors, your whole house, the spectators, ap­proovers, autours, writers; all which points you loade with pa­theticall circumstances otherwhere entreated of: you force me to say I could haue wisht also that you had forborne these Gal­ba-trickes of seeking to preiudice the trueth and equitie of causes with partiall affections and respect of persons, a Lev. 19. 15. Prov. 24. 23 [...]. 2. 1. thing [Page 131] condemned by Scriptire; and that you had considered that if playes savouring of some witt learning, and iudgement, ought not to be compared to such things as I mentioned, then your selfe did ill in praysing and allowing that part of my discourse, wherein the foole and mad man served for comparisons. For you gaue testimonie therof, that I had written copiously and truly against the bad effects of stage-playes in generall. Yea, specifying the proofes that I made by sundry examples and autorities, among which the autoritie of Salvianus was, you soothed it as contai­ning a truth, and well handled. But the stage-playes spoken of by Salvianus, did savour of some witt, learning, and iudgement: as what play doeth nor? at least of all those that any ancient Poët wrote. Your reason therfore brought from the savour of witt learning, and iudgement, to crosse my comparisons; doeth crosse your owne allowance of that which you acknowledged to be well spoken against the bad effects of stage-playes in gene­rall. And thus, as Apollod [...] de o [...]g. D [...]. or. lib. 3. Lycurgus the Thracian imagining that hee was hewing downe a vine with his hatchet, is said to have slaine his sonne, and maimed him selfe: likewise you intending to shew that my comparisons are hard and incomparable, and ex­ceede the compasse of any tolerable resemblance, and should haue bene forborne, haue wounded vnawares your eternall olde man, and your selfe greevously.

A more greevous wound haue you giuen your selfe in say­ing that you presumed your playes to be lawfull, when you made your simple assertion (so you terme it) that there is a needfull time for sports. For this is in effect as much as if you saide, that you played the Aristo. de [...] ­prehē. Soph. Sophister, [...]. begging the point in question, and taking it as granted. The which kinde of dealing, if it had any sinewes to graple with an adversarie, the Iesuits might trooble vs, by saying that the Catholike faith must be kept; and they pre­sume that Poperie is the Catholike faith. Likewise the meanest advocate in a court of law might speede all his clients, by say­ing that such as haue wrong offered them, ought to be releeved; and hee presumeth his clients haue so. Neither had you needed to write so long a reply of twelue leaves to me: twelue wordes might haue sufficed, that you presume my cause is naught, and [Page 132] naughty things must not be credited. But your selfe acknow­ledge that this prooveth not the lawfulnes of your playes. So that, in affirming you did presume them to bee lawfull, and calling it a simple assertion which you avowed concerning sports, you speake more trueth then you intended. For it is a simple asser­tion in deede to say that sports are needfull, against a mans argu­ments who saith that stage-playes are vnlawfull. And hee may be iustly noted of presumption, who, beeing vnable to proove a thing he fansieth, condemneth them as Momes that are min­ded otherwise and bring sound proofe against it.

Howbeit, had you kept your selfe within the compasse of such oversights, you were more excusable. But it is a greater fault to play the sclanderer by falsifying mens wordes, and fa­thering vpon them an erroneous sentence, which never came into their mindes, nor fell out of their mouths or pennes. And what doe you else, when having saide that I vse many wordes against dansing, you reply that you loue to see honest dansing; and, you see no cause in reason, charitie, or Christian libertie, why dansing should simply be condemned. For hereby you insinuate, or pronounce rather, that I condemned dansing simply, and ho­nest dansing: whereas my wordes were that danses of Penelopes wooers, of Melantho, of other of her maides, and simply all stage-dansing do savour of dishonestie. Which differeth as much from that you father on me, as the speech of Christ, Ioh. 2. 19. Destroy ye this temple, & in three dayes I will raise it vp againe, meaning of his body, did differ from that which Matt. 26. 61 the false witnesses affirmed him to haue said of the temple of God, Mar. 14. 58. the temple made with handes. Nay, it surpasseth that of the false witnesses: it differeth as much as if, where Christ saide, that Luk. 13. 3. & 21. 18. all vngodly men shall perish, they had fathered on him that all men shall perish. And your crime herein is the more blamewoorthy, because I had so plainly excepted certaine dansing, that you can not seeme to haue mistaken my wordes, and reade all dansing, for all stage-dansing; but wilfully and advisedly to haue misreported mee. For I said expressely, I meant those danses that I specified, and not 2. Sam. 6. 14 Davids dansing, which S ^t Depoeniten. lib. 2. cap. 6. Ambrose doeth well distinguish from them. Now S ^t Ambrose saith that Davids religious and [Page 133] godly dansing is decent: but Saltationis lubricae hi­strionici mo­tus. the dangerous dansing practised by players, and the Scenae deli­ramenta. foolish toyes, the dotages, of the stage; Haec etiam in adolescen­tula aetate vi­ [...]osa sunt. are faul­tie even in youth too. So both mine owne woords, and the au­tour I cited, doe manifestlie shew, that whē you tooke vpō you to prayse honest dansing, and said you saw no cause in charitie or reason why dansing should simply be condemned, you could not but in reason and charitie see cause, why you should have dealt more simply and honestly, then so calumniouslie to raise a false surmise of me. You know what creature it is, whom the Rev. 12. 9. scri­pture nameth a [...] calumniatour.

Beside, as you offend in charging me with that I said not: so in going about to overthrow that which I said. For whereas I affirmed that dansing of Penelopes wooers with her maides, and simply all stage-dansing, is disallowed by the light of nature; and for proofe thereof did alleage the testimonies, of Romans putt by Nero, of Philistines putting Samson to it, and of all ancient 6 Pastorē sal­taret vti Cy­clopa, roga­bat: Nil illi larva, aut tra­gicis opus esse cothurnis. lawes in a manner, yea of reason it selfe, as Arias Montanus no­teth: you, avouching two mens opinions to the contrarie, doe adde, that to apply, either the dansing of those noble Romans, whom Nero enforced to danse so publikely; or, Samsons dansing among the Philistines; or, the note of Arias Montanus, against your dansing onely of two sober measures, is a comparison without all measure. Wherein first, through negligence of marking my words, or desire of crossing them before you vnderstood them, you misreport my drift: and say that I applyed those thinges a­gainst your dansing onely of two sober measures, (you meane, the wooers dansing with the maides,) which I applyed not against it alone, but against the rest of your stage-dansing also, that is, all your stage-playing. For this did I betoken by the name of stage-dansing, the better to expresse the sentence, that I had in hand, of Saint Ambrose, who by Saltationis lubricae hi­strionicos motus & sce­nae delira­menta. dansing noteth all histrio­nicall motions and playings on the stage, in like sort as Satyr. lib. 1. sat. 5. Horace saith, Saltabat Hy­las Oedipo­dē. Pylades: [...]. one was requested to danse Polyphemus, meaning to play his part; and Caeruleatus, & nudus, ca­putque redi­mitus arun­dine, & can­dam trahens, genibus in­nixus, Glau­cum saltavit. Plancus dansed Glaucus, in Lib 2. Uelleius storie; and g stage-players dansed Oedipus, and Hercules, in Satur. lib. 1. cap. 7. Macro­bius; and Adver. gent. lib. 7. Arnobius speaketh of Si Europa, fi Leda, si Ga­nymedes fue­rit saltatus, aut Dana. cōpescit mo­tum irarum Iuppiter? dansing Europa, Leda, Gany­medes. Neither was it hard for you to perceiue that I meant [Page 134] thus much, if you had better weighed the branches of my speech, & proofes therto answering, concluded with the note of Arias Montanus, touching not onely dansers, but persons of such shewes & spectacles. Chiefly if you had looked on the au­tour him selfe, and marked that in the persons of such shewes and spectacles, he compriseth stage-players; as the Hujus gene­ris actiones ingenuo ho­mine indig­niffimas dux­erunt, qui de virtute vera, de (que) corruptis hominū mo­ribus prudēter loq [...]ti sunt. Vt ille de Ne­rone: In scena nunquā can­tavit Orestes. &c. Iuv. sat. 8 generalitie of his wordes, exemplified by Nero, maketh plaine.

An other iniurie is it, that you terme those proofes of mine, a comparison; and (which is more) a comparison without all mea­sure. What Matt. 7. 2. measure you did vse in the meting out hereof, I can not guesse: vnlesse peradventure, because that you had heard that comparisons are odious, you hoped you should make all my proofes odious by naming them comparisons. For I, ha­ving noted, against your argument drawne from sports and re­creations, that sports by the light of nature, are accounted vn­seemelie, bad, infamous, and so is all stage-dansing; did alleage the iudgements of Romans, of Philistines, of ancient lawes well nigh all, and of reason it selfe, as testimonies to proove that pro­position by; not as comparisons, but as testimonies And there­fore in the note of Arias Montanus, I did omitt that he saith of Divina verò lex minimè admittenda censuit, invul­garibus etiam ac vilibus ca­pitibus; & quae sequuntur. the law of God condemning stage-playes likewise, because that might goe higher then the light of nature. Otherwise, you may be sure that I, who cited him for mens lawes, a thing of weaker proofe, would not have omitted the lawe of GOD, his strongest argument. But if I had ioyned supernaturall light to the light of nature, and had produced testimonies of the Scrip­ture also: would you have replied, that, to alleage the Scrip­ture, is a comparison without all measure? You must by like reason. And what should stay you from it? All would have espied that it were no comparison. Why more, then the note of Arias Montanus? which yet, when you had cast my allega­tion of the Romans and Philistines in such a mould, that it could not appeare I brought them in as testimonies; you na­med with them for company a comparison too. Though, see­ing you are greeved with my applying of it against your stage-dansing, and that induced you to call it a cōparison: me thinks you should have fastned that odious name rather on the propo­sition [Page 135] prooved by those testimonies. For the proofes reach not you immediatlie, they fight not nigh at hande: the proposition doeth; as being the maior of that argument, wherof your stage-players make the minor. And the proposition, condemning all stage-dansing, doth giue a deadlyer wound; nether can it choose but light on your stage-dansing: the proofes might seeme to be more easilie avoided; or, comming so farre off, to raze the skinne onely. Againe, my applying of the proposition to you, by the assumption, would deserve more woorthily the name of a comparison: and the assumption being particular, or singu­lar; the proposition vniversall; were not this applying of all a­gainst some, a comparison without all measure?

The third iniurious part offered me in this point, is, that you alleage the iudgement of Homer and Syr Thomas Eliot, as ma­king for that dansing, which I did reproove. And bringing in the former of them by a Praeteritio. figure, saying, To omit Homers iudg­ment thereof; him self you call an excellent observer of decorum in all things, and quote for his iudgement Odyss. [...]. the eight booke of his Odyssea. Now, better had it ben [...] [...]or you to omit him with­out a figure in deede: sith he, describing there the life of King Alcinous, and of his people, the Phaeacians, saieth, that [...]. they tooke pleasure continually in feasting, and musicke, and daun­sing, and braverie of apparell, and hott baths, and chambering: wherein a livelie paterne of a wanton, riotous, voluptuous, Epi­cures life, being sett foorth by Homer, as Epist. lib. 1. ep. 2. Alcino­ique In cute curanda plus aequo operata iuventus. Horace, Dipno so­phist. lib. 1. [...]. Athenae­us, Iu Odyss. [...] Eustathius may teach you: if I should not haue blamed dansing in your playes, because such an excellent observer of decorum saith the Phoeacians vsed it; then must the Phil. 3. 19. belly bee your players God, because such an excellent observer of decorū saith the Phoeacians served it. Moreover seeing that the Mu­sicke which the minstrell gave thē to their dansing, was a [...] song of Mars taken in adulterie with Venus Vulcans wife; & you commend in dansing the number of the footing wel expressing, an­swering, and as it were acting the measure and meaning of the Musike: you see what good instructions you give men by extolling your excellent observer of decorum in all things. Adde therevnto that he, so good an observer of decorum, maketh the [Page 136] Phoeacian actors danse with [...]. others of their owne sexe, or [...]. single. Which how much, & why, it is more allowable, then men and women to danse together: I wish you to consider, by weighing, with examples mentioned in Exo. 15. 20. Iudg 21. 21. 1. Sam. 18. 6 Scripture, the iudge­ment of Pet. Mart. in lib. Iud. cap. 21. Hyperius de feriis Bac­chanalib. A­retius probl. theolog. tom. 1. loc. 14. Divines thereon. So shall you perceiue, that Homer in the eight booke of his Odyssea, hath no sufficient warrant for Melantho to danse together with Eurymachus, the maides with the wooers; no not though they were maides and Melantho in deede; much lesse for boyes attired like Melantho, & maides, to danse with men vpon a stage. The later of your autours you alleage directlie; and, that learned Knight Syr Thomas Eliot, say you, among other things that he writeth in a booke of his, in the prayse of dansing, compareth the man treading the measures, to Fortitude, and the woman on his hande, to Temperance. You adde, that you have seene the booke, and you remember hee vseth this comparison in it. But did you not remember the name of the booke too? or was it for some speciall cause that you con­cealed it? your woordes might giue a man occasion to thinke, that he had written a booke in the praise of dansing: which that he did, I Baleus scrip­torum Bri­tann. centur. 8. cap. 77. finde not. I guesse you meane therefore his booke entituled the Governour. Wherein Lib. 1. ca. 20 he prayseth Dansing, and vttereth somewhat like to that avouched by you, and Cap. 22. 23. 24. & 25. treateth of circumstances (a point you touch also) which being all obser­ved, dansing may be honestlie and honorably vsed: But his speech of Fortitude and Temperance represented by men and maidens in a danse, commeth nothing neere your maides and wooers measures, whereto you would stretch it. For, among diverse maners and kindes of dansing vsed in ancient time, he rehearseth one, wherein (as De saltat. Lucian saith, translated woord for woorde by him in a maner) [...] dansed young men and maidens; the man going before, and expressing [...]. such motions as he might afterward vse in warre; the maiden following him modestly and shamefast­lie; so that it represented a pleasant coniunction of temperance & fortitude. Now those warlike motions were (as De legi. li. 7 Plato shew­eth, speaking of the like danse) gestures which resembled, part­lie the avoiding all sortes of woundes and blowes by [...]. bending a­side, by [...] going backe, by [...]. leaping vp, by [...]. bowing downe; part­lie [Page 137] the enforcing of enimies by shooting [...]. arrowes, and casting [...]. dartes at them, and giving them [...]. all sortes of wounds. Wher­fore this being it, that represented Fortitude in the danse descri­bed by Syr Thomas Eliot: farre was it frō his meaning to make your measures, your sober measures, warlike motions; or com­pare a wooer treading them, to Fortitude. As farre, as to com­pare a boy doeing the same in maidens likenes, to Temperance. Which, if you had otherwise expressed his sense rightlie, yet should you haue forborne to apply to yours for the observing of decorum, a thing that you commend so in Homer, and your selfe aime at: sith those maides and wooers, intended both by Homer and you, to be wantons, must vse lascivious danses; and the man (if you will needes haue such resemblances) bee com­pared rather to Mollitude, or Cowardnes, the woman to Incon­tinencie. Beside that, the praise which that learned Knight ge­veth vnto dansing, he giveth it not simply; (for he saith Lib. 1. ca. 19 some danses, doe corrupt the mindes of them that danse, and provoke sinne:) but with limitation, to weete, cap. 22. & 2 [...]. being vsed and continued in such forme, and with such observations and rules, as hee spe­cifieth. Whereof the first (to name one for example) is, that, by the curtesie or reverent inclination made at beginning of dan­sing, the dansers and beholders should marke and remember this to be signified, that at the beginning of all our actes, we should doe due honour to God, which is the roote of prudence. And in deede if dansers in treading of their measures had such regards and meditations: then not Syr Thomas Eliot onely, but the Fathers would praise dansing too. For, when godly Bishops as­sembled in the Councells of Concil. Lao­dicen. can 53 Laodicea, and Conc. Ilerd. can. ult. Con­cilior. tom. 2. Ilarda, decreed that Christians ought not to danse at mariages; when S ^t In Matt. hom. 59. Chry­sostome blamed women for so doeing, as being a staine vnto their sexe; when S ^t De virginib. lib. 3. Ambrose cited and averred that of Orat. pro Muraen. Tul­lie, that such as danse are drunke, or madde; when S ^t In Psal. 32. part. [...]. Austin said that it were better to spend the Sabbat day in digging & del­ving, then in dansing: they meant not to restraine men from marking, and remembring, that at the beginning of all their actes, they should doe due honour to God; but they thought that dansers haue commonlie their mindes on thinges of an other [Page 138] qualitie. Which if your wooers and maidens also had; as (I am perswaded) them selves will not deny, and you seeme to have thought by touching so nicely, or rather scarcelie touching, the circumstāces that you say should be observed in dansing: you abuse the name of that learned Knight, in vrging his prayse of a good danse that might bee, against my disprayse of an ill danse that is. It had bene more reason, that when his conceit caried him a litle out of the way sometimes, as in that Lib. 1. ca. 20 he pray­seth Lucians stage-danser, who dansed the adulterie of Mars and Venus with resembling of [...], saith Lucian. every act therein, (which I hope, your selfe would not allow on your stage;) you should haue acknowledged that through too great a love of dansing, he liked too well of Lucians treatise: though otherwise he fan­sied not the autour much; as Lib. 1. ca. 10 he well declareth by noting of Huius impi­os & scurriles dialogos scho larū nostra­rum censores volunt, si Deo placet, in puerotū scho­lis praelegi, &c. Hyperius opusc. de sa­crar. literar. stud non de­ferend. his ribaudrie, and his too much scorning; and by saying farther, It were better that a childe should never read any part of Luci­an, then all Lucian. Or, if the sentence of a Knight, so woorthy, had such credit with you; why did you not consider Lib. 1. ca. 19 his reli­gious wish, that the names of idoles, of Paynim Gods and God­desses, were not vsed at this day in balades and dities, to the cor­rupting of many good wittes with godlesse fantasies? For though his reproofe doe specially touch the most vile idoles, Venus, and Bacchus, remembred so in dansing-songs as if the danse were to their honour and memorie; a matter most abhorring from Christes religion, and savouring of the ancient errour of Paganisme: yet as the Exod. 33. 13 Psal. 16. 4. Hos 2. 17. Scripture, the ground of his reproofe, doeth generallie condemne such naming of other Gods, semblably he sheweth, that, if you had attributed so much to his iudgement, you should haue eschewed that fault in your tragedie. At least, wher the woords are vttered as it were in your owne person: as Vlyss. red. prolog. ad Acad. those of Llluminavit Deos. the Gods enlightned or beautificd by Homers fables are. Perhaps, where players of other mens persons also speake: as Act. 1. & 5. Ulysses, and Act. 2. Eumaeus, adoring spirits of Nymphae Naides. Devills, or of dead Iuppiter. men, and Minerva. women, with sacrifices and prayers; Act. 2. Telemachus Per Iovem. swearing by Iuppiter; Act. 4. Philaetius, first Inique sem­per Iuppiter: nec enim est Deus Te pe­jor alter. blaspheming GOD vnder Iuppiters name, then Magne reg­nator Deûm [...]am fateor esse, fateor in coelo Deos. confessing to him that there are Gods in heaven. Chieflie seeing that these speeches are deli­vered [Page 139] by the flower of those persons, by whose partes (you say) no hurt could come to any man: and Syr Thomas Eliot thought that such speeches, savouring of Paganisme, might corrupt good wittes. But howsoever you shall distinguish your Poëme from the balades and dities, in which he controlleth this irreligious custome of giving the honour of God to vile idoles: your selfe doe beare witnesse that he commēdeth not the dansing of Eu­rymachus & the rest of your wooers with their Melanthos on the stage. For among the partes of their dissolute behaviour i­magined to be doon within, you rehearse their Regiam per­dunt domum Luxu, cho­réis, scelete, dapibusque impiis. dansing: and that in the person, not of a carping Momus, but of wise Act. 1. Tele­machus. Now looke what was imagined to bee doon within, the same was expressed on the stage in part, by your owne confessi­on: as Telemachus also saith, that in Quos jam reliqui more viventes suo, Tumultuan­tes, atque sal­tantes domi. their maners at home they kept their wont, Their dansing on the stage then, your self acknowledge, was vnhonest dansing. And the dansing pray­sed by Syr Thomas Eliot is honest dansing, you say. Therefore you doe manifest wrong vnto vs both, in alleaging him as pray­sing that which I dispraysed.

Plutarch. a­pophthe. reg. & imperat. When the Lacedaemonians had accused the Thebans of ma­nie and greevous matters: In deed, quoth Epaminondas, [...]. these have made you give over your short forme of speaking. I wishe I might be short, as were the Lacedaemonians; but you constraine me to be long: you deale so Theban-like continually with me. A doubtfull woord being vsed in a question of yours, Senecamne tu recitare ja­cturam putes? whether we account it a losse recitare, to recite Seneca; Wherevnto I an­swered that it is one thing Recitare. to recite, another thing Agere. to play, as I declared by sundrie writers; and added that I would have bene content to heare your tragedie recited; had it bene recited or pro­nounced onely; you reply that the woord is vsed in Quintilian; not onely de scripto, but also memoriter recitare; and therefore you might vse it indifferentlie, for agere, in a generall acceptatiō; moreover, that as Horace and Persius doe scoffe bitterly at reci­tatores also, and the law in the generalitie of the terme noteth also with imfamie, them, qui pronuntiandi, that is properly, recitan­di causa in scenam prodeunt: so the Universitie would have thought it a more absurd thing to have heard you, or any other, [Page 140] openly reading your Vlysses to them, then to have seene it acted as it was. Wherein to the intent you may see how you play the Theban, I will vse a comparison, and that within some measure I trust. [...]. Plutarch hath written a dialogue to proove that brute beastes haue reason as well as men haue: in iest peradvēture, see­ing he maketh it to be avouched by [...] a pigge, or hogge. Gryllus: or meaning, that they haue a naturall sagacitie and vnderstanding like to reason, not reason capable of Religion, as in the [...]. conclusion he seemeth to insinuate, and a Vallesius de sacra philo­sophia, cap. 44. & 55. certaine Christian writer hath mainteined, though speaking not so fitlie in saying they have reason, sith the 2. Pet. 2. 12. Scripture termeth them [...] Creatures voide of reason. But suppose that some man being of Gryllus minde, (or let vs call him Gryllus for more perspicuitie, and make Sempro­nius likewise his adversaries name;) suppose then that Gryllus having asked this question, Animálne tu rationis ex­pers esse pu­tas? Doe you thinke that animal, a li­ving creature indued with sense, wanteth reason? Sempronius an­swered him, that animal is one thing, and a beast an other, as De legi. li. 1. Tullie declareth, affirming a Animal hoc providum, sa­gax, multi­plex, acutum, memor, ple­num rationis & consilii, quem voca­mus hominē. man (whom he calleth animal) to be full of reason, whereof he saith, that Solum est e­nim ex tot a­nimātium ge­neribus atque naturis parti­ceps rationis, & cogitatio­nis, cùm cae­tera sint om­nia expertia. no beast at all is par­taker. If Gryllus should reply that the woord is vsed in Metamor. lib. 1. Ovid for Pronaque cùm spectent animalia cae­tera terram, os homini sublime dedit. all things that have life and sense, not for men onely, and ther­fore he might vse it indifferently for beasts in a general acceptatiō: would not they, who see, that belike he meant to comprehend men also vnder that generall woord, thereby the more closely to fetch in beastes with them; and that, restraining it to beasts, his question must bee, Thinke you that beastes want reason? which were an idle question, and openly implying a begging of the point in controversie; would they not, I say, condemne him as a wrangling and contentious Sophister? Now, if in the same vaine, or rather in a woorse, he should adde moreover, that as Epist lib. 1. epi. 1. Horace and Satyr. 3. Persius speake scoffingly of mad men too, and the L. 2. D. de postulando. l. 2. D. de curatorib. suriosor. law appointeth gar [...] [...]s for idiots, that is properly, for men wanting the vse of re [...]; so the grave Athenian bench of Areo­pagus would iudge it more absurd to say that men haue reason, then that beasts haue it, chieflie certaine beastes, as [...], saith Gryll [...] in Plutarch. horses and [Page 141] oxen dansing vpon stages in a more exquisit maner then men are lightlie able: would not this speech of Gryllus shew that he de­serveth a sharper commendation, then Plutarch by praysing [...]. his sophistrie meant vnto him? Here your vsuall dealing causeth mee to feare that you will aske whether I make you a Gryllus. As Theodoret. hist ecclesia. lib. 2. cap. 16 when a Catholike Bishop, being rebuked by an Arian Emperour for standing alone with Athanasius against the whole worlde, said that the doctrine of faith was not impea­ched though he alone mainteined it, seeing that of olde time Dan. 3. 12. three alone were found who stoode against the Kings commandement: What? quoth an Eunuche, [...]. doest thou make our Emperour a Nabuchodonosor? But, I pray you, leave this Eunuches odious practise in racking my cōparisons: and marke the maine point whereat I aime in them, and which I seeke to open by them. For, as in Gryllus question, and verse, framed like yours, the cir­cumstances giue, that he vsed the generall woord comprising man, thereby to breed a fansie that if this kinde of animal haue reason, why not the other? In like sorte your expresse mention of Cuius vel v­num simile carminibus me [...] Beni­gna carmen malo posteri­tas legat: le­gat, you say, not agat; though agat would haue fitted the verse as well as legat. reading, I say, of reading, not of playing, in shewing what a iewell you take the reciting of Seneca to be; maketh it proba­ble that you meant to doe by the generalitie of the woord reci­tare. The more, because you vsed it not onely in your verse, where your excuse might serve, that it stoode better then agere would in that place; as Gryllus might say likewise for versifying animal rather, then bestiam: but in your prose also, the Tragoedia noua, in aede Christi reci­tata. title of your tragedie; as if Gryllus, setting downe the point contro­versed betweene him and Sempronius, should make it, vtrum animal sit rationis expers; where the woorde In the larger sense, that Tullie geueth it: Tusc quae. lib. 5. De nat. Deor. lib. 2. not in the stricter of your Lawiers: l. 1. § remo­vet. D de po­stulando. l. 1. §. in bestiis. D. si quadrup. pauper. sec. di. bestia, would serve as fitlie in prose; nay, (if plaine dealing were meant) a great deale more fitlie. And if you intended not to make that reason which I supposed you did, it is no losse to recite Seneca, Ergo no losse to play him: but meant to vse the generall woorde for the speciall, and to aske Momus onely, Thinke you it a losse to play Seneca? thē you begged at Momus hand, or tooke as graunted, the point you should haue prooved; sith the play­ing of Seneca was condemned by him, and you vndertooke to confute his arguments. Againe, as Horace, Persius, the law, al­leaged [Page 142] by Gryllus, doe shew that certaine men want the vse of reason, but neither proove that beasts haue it, nor that mankind wanteth it; and his presumed testimonie of the Areopa­gus, brought in with a particle of similitude, So, as hitting iumpe with Horace, Persius, and the law, is too too absurd: in like sort the same autours, alleaged by your selfe, doe shew that some reciters are misliked by them, but neither prove that players are liked, nor all reciters misliked; and the Vniversities testimonie which you bring in with the same particle, as hit­ting iumpe with those autours, I can not say you bring it alto­gether as Gryllus, but you bring it strangely. For Satyr. lib. [...]. sat. 4. &. De art. poët. Horace scof­feth at them, who In medio qui Scripta foro recitent, sunt multi, quique lavantes. recite their writings out of due place or time, and are Indoctum doctumque fugat recita­tor acerbus. importunatlie displeasant: Satyr. 1. Persius, at Patranti fra­ctus ocello. wantons re­citing Quum car­nima lúbum Intrant, & tremulo scal­puntur ubi in [...]ma versu. wanton verses, with an Liquida quū plasmate gut­tur Mobile collueris. Quintilian. li. 1. cap. 14. effeminate voice, and a Quo didicis­se, nisi hoc fermentum, & qua semel intus innata est, rupto je­core exierit caprificus? & vsque adeò ne Scire [...]uú nihil est, nisi te scire hoc sciat alter? vain­glorious minde. The law noteth with infamie such as come vpon the stage to recite: belike, for their vaine-glorious desire of Populo, pe­xusque, toga­que recenti, & natalitia tandem cum sardonyche albus, Sede legens celsa. be­ing seene, and At pulchrum est digito monstrari, & dicier, hic est. getting mens applause, which Persius iesteth at. Now in that you adde hereto the Universitie, and make vs ioyne with the former in opinion, saying; So the Vniversitie would have thought it a more absurd thing, to have heard me, or any other, openly reading my Ulysses to them, then to have seene it acted, as it was: what meane you by this terme, So? That if you, or an other, had read your Vlysses openly vnto them, it had bene done out of due place, or due time? or, they should haue heard wanton verses read? or wantonly? or by a wanton? or with a vaine-glorious minde? or on the stage? In deede, they should haue heard In Melanthos part, & Eurymachus. some wanton verses, I graunt: and both out of due place, and time, if you had read it Qui pronuntiandi causa in scenam prodierit. where, & Die Dominico. when it was acted. Neither doe I doubt but the Universitie would haue thought such open reading, of such stuffe, on such a day, absurd: though, whether more absurd, then to haue seene it acted as it was, I know not. But whatsoever they would haue thought in this comparison, wherein the L. 1. D. de his qui not. infam. law, that you cite, noting both with infamie, should giue (mee thinkes) a deeper print thereof to acting then reading, all things weighed: you are farre [Page 143] from hitting the marke, whereat you shoote; namely, from cō ­vincing by the Universities testimonie, and iudgement, my sen­tence as absurd, that if your tragedie had bene recited onely, I would have accounted it no more losse of time to haue heard you pronounce it, then my selfe to reade it. For, I did not meane, if it had bene recited as those were, which the autours by you al­leaged, doe reproove: but as Lib. 1. sat 4. Horace vsed to Non recite cuiquam, nisi amicis, idque coactus. Non vbiuis co­rámve qui­buslibet. recite his owne writings; as Quintilio si quid recitares corrige sodes Hoc aiebat, & hoc. Hora. de art. poet. poëmes were recited to Quintilius Uarus; as Persii vita. Gloss. vet. [...] Persium. Per­sius did recite his booke vnto Cornutus, before he published it. Whereof if you pronounce (as you doe, if you speake to pur­pose) that our Universitie would haue thought it a more absurd thing, then to have seene it acted as it was: you deale in like ma­ner with our Vniversitie, as Gryllus with the reverend bench of Areopagus, if he should abuse their name and estimation, to perswade that brute beastes have more reason, then the wisest men have.

Hereto would be annexed that, which in the fourth and, last head of reasons, you vrge againe concerning our Universities iudgement for the approbation of your playes in generall: if your interlaced defense of wastfull cost in setting foorth therof (the onely point remaining besides) were discussed. And this is easilie done, considering what hath bene alreadie prooved against you touching the inconveniences and mischifes of your playes. For having made Momus obiect the great charges; which how great they were, you know better then I, who sum­med them perhaps too much beneath the due whē I did men­tion thirtie pound; but having made him say that it should haue bene bestowed on the poore rather, you take him vp with three answeres: one, that the mony was your own, not his; an other, that the charge, though great to him, was meane to you; the thirde, that none would give the lesse to the poore for that, none would have given the more without it. All the which I shewed to be of no force for warrāting of expēses on things of that qualitie, be­cause, both vnhonest spending of a mans owne, is wastfulnes & riott, condemned by our Saviour in the prodigall sonne: and, as Nero giving much to gett a Plaudite, was the lesse able to help the poore by so much, and the lesse willing too perhaps; in like [Page 144] sort may you be. Herevpon you demand of me, What simili­tude is there, or can there be, betweene the prodigall sonne, that in such a sort, as he did, spent all, and brought him selfe to the ex­treemest miserie; and betweene your expense? A question, which you would not have pressed, as you doe; for your vnlikenes to him in that he wasted all, and brought him selfe to extreeme mi­serie thereby: if you had considered that [...]. woord in the origi­nall text of the Gospell, whereto my quotation for Luk. 15. 13. riott did direct you. For vsually it noteth the qualitie of expenses made by loose & wanton persons on their pleasures, as in forein wri­ters, Ethicor. lib. 4. cap. 1. [...]. Aristotle and De finib. li 2 Tullie; so in Eph. 5. 18. Tit. 1. 6. 1. Pet. 4. 4. Scripture likewise: and, to that effect in the same parable of the prodigall sonne is it said Luk. 15. 30. afterward, that he devoured his goods [...]. with harlotts. Now, in Rome, of olde time, there were common Diobolares meretrices. Fest. Scorta diobolaria. Plaut. Poen. harlots to be hired for Two oboli beeing the third part of drachma, or denarius; & eight drach­ma, or dena­rii, weighing an ounce of siluer. two pence halfe-peny. The price in our dayes, by reason of the Io. Athon. gloss. in con­stit. Othon. de concubin. clericor. re­mouend. Fr. Sansouin. de administr. regnor & re­rumpub. lib. 11. cap. de mareschallo. tribute, which they are to pay the Pope, may bee enhaun­sed. But if one, desirous of an harlots company, could have her so cheape, and should pleade for him self that the moony he spendeth on her is his owne, & the charge not great, neither would he geve the lesse vnto the poore for that, nor more without it: were this a lawfull barre to stay vs from accusing him of [...] riott, I meane, of wastfull and vnhonest spending; (give it a fitter English name, if you know any; I tooke that which our best interpreters agree on;) but might we not accuse him thereof vpon the same ground that Scripture doeth the prodigall sonne? Or, if some Preacher, more severe then Horat. saty­rar. li 1. sat. 2 Cato, should deale so strictly and rigorously with him; might he aske what similitude there is, or can be, betweene his expense of two pence half-peny, and the prodigall sonne, who in such a sort, as he did, spent all, and brought himselfe to the extremest miserie? Much fault haue you found with my hard incomparable comparisons and similitudes; & some of them are Sed quid o­pus teneras mordaci ra­dere vero Auricolas? Pers. sat. 1. hard in deede, though none incōparable: but I must say thereof, as the Apostle of his boasting, 2 Cor. 12. 11 you haue compelled me. For when I tooke a softer and more gentle course, as here, to encounter that aunswere made to Momus, Thou saist the charge is great; but thou mayst come, and looke on, Momus, and pay nothing, no man doeth aske thee a peny; [Page 145] I resembled it to an aunswere which the prodigall sonne might thus haue made to his reproover, Thou blamest me for wasting, but I wast none of thine; thou mayst drinke with me scotfree, if thou be a good felow, & welcome: albeit the very woord, wasting, might haue shewed I meant vnhonest spending, (for Luk. 16. 9. 1. Tim. 6. 18 Tit. 3. 14. Reu. 14. 1 [...]. thinges spent honestly are not wasted,) chiefly sith I vsed it in respect of the riot noted by our Saviour; and in the vnthrifts speech, drawing good felowes to drinke with him, I pointed to his lusty, excessive, dissolute 1. Pet. 4. 3. drinkings with lewde companions like himselfe; yet you did reply, that, if hee had bene as moderate and thrifty in spending at his boord, as you were at your playes, he might well enough have said to any niggard, that should haue vnwisely found fault with him, as much as I make him say, not with the note of a prodigall, but with the commendation of an ingenuous and liberall disposition. Whereby you make mee see, to what reprochefull contumelies of a niggardly minde, and want of wisedome and discretion, I should haue laid my selfe open, if I had still endevoured to disclose vnto you the weaknes of your aunswers by gentle similitudes. That similitude there­fore of mine, the tender smoothnes whereof occasioned you to mistake my meaning, and intertaine it so coursly, I have now corrected with substituting a rougher, which may deliver you from errour, and me from such tantes. For seeing you perceve this to be my meaning, that the threefold answer made by you to Momus is like as if Cie. de finib. lib. 2. Gallonius, or some other Epicure, re­prooved by a Stoike for going to the stewes, should answer him; Thou blamest me for spending two pence half-peny on a wench, but I spend none of thine; thou maist goe with me thither, if thou be a good felow, & I will give her as much for thee too; the charge, though it seeme great to thee, is small to me; neither will I bestow a dodkin lesse vpon the poore for that, nor more without it: you will not reply, that if Gallonius had bene as moderate and thrifty in his spending at his bedde, as you were at your playes, (they cost a number of you more, you wote, in severall, then twise two pence halfe-peny;) hee might well enough have said to any nig­gard, that should haue vnwisely found fault with him, as much as I make him say, not with the note of a prodigall, but with the [Page 146] commendation of an ingenuous and liberall disposition. And so, by the other similitude likewise mended, and as it were rough hewen, you may the better learne to discerne my drift, and spare your owne replying. For when, to discover the povertie of your aunswere touching the poore, I said, that Nero perad­venture was either lesse able, or lesse willing to helpe the poore, by reason of five or sixe thousand pownd given for a Plaudite; which charge notwithstanding he might better beare, then some of your students may fiue or six shillings: you replyed, that, if Nero could haue as well spared such huge summes of moony, which hee spent that way often, as your House, with the company in it, and belon­ging to it, can once in many yeares thirty powndes: Nero should haue bene wronged greatly, being an Emperour, to haue bene no­ted of wastfulnes; and, if ever hee had any such good minde, hee mought neverthelesse haue releeved the poore. Nowe, altering and changing Neros charge on Plaudite into Corn. Tacit. annal. li. 13. his charge on Acte (a harlot whom hee loved better then his wife,) and tel­ling you that he was lesse able, or lesse willing (nay, both) to helpe the poore, by reason of Quae Prin­ceps furtim mulierculae tribuebat. gifts bestowed on her: I shall not heare, I trust, that, if Nero could haue as well spared the sundry summes of moony which he spent that way often, as your House, with the company in it, and belonging to it, can once in many yeares thirty powndes: Nero should haue bene wronged greatly, beeing an Emperour, to haue bene noted of wastfulnes. No, not, though in adding that clause, being an Emperour, you seeme to allude to Ethicor. li. [...]. Aristotles saying, that [...]. Princes are not termed wastfull, or pro­digall. For therin he respecteth [...]. the abundance of their wealth, which Nero could hardly exceede in gifts and expenses: not the [...]. qualitie of the matters that they spend their wealth on, wher­in as prodigall persons may and doe wast, so Nero. Neither will you affirme that Nero mought neverthelesse have releeved the poore; for feare least you cause your reader to suspect you of shamelesnesse, or sophistrie. Shamelesnesse, if you say, that, whatsoever it were which Nero gaue to Acte, he had no whit the lesse in his coffers to giue others. Sophistrie, if by the woorde neverthelesse, you meane, notwithstanding. For Phoe­dria in the Terent. Eun. Comedie, mought haue helped Parmeno, notwith­standing [Page 147] the moony that he spent on Thais. Yet Nam quod nos capere o­portet haec intercipit. the greater charge he was at with his harlot, the lesse had he remaining to giue his poore seruant. And your dout, if Nero had ever any such good minde, will bee as badly opposed vnto my speech of his lesse willinglesse. For both him selfe, Sueton Ner. cap. 10. having so good a minde once, became Cap. 32. & 38. worse minded afterward, when he was growen ca. 30. & 31. wastfull such wayes, yea, simply wastfull, prooving that to bee possible which Aristotle iudgeth [...] in y ^e woords alleaged. not easy to bee done: and if he had alwayes bene equally ill-minded, yet com­meth it otherwise to passe in mans nature, as you might haue learned by Caesar and Plutarch. Of whom the one, beholding certaine rich strangers and foreiners, at Rome, carying whelpes of dogges and apes in their bosomes, and making much of them, did aske, Whether wemen brought not foorth children in their countries: Plutarch. vi­ta Periclis. the other saith that Caesar herein gaue a woor­thy and princely admonition to them [...]. who doe consume & wast, vpon beasts, the naturall affection and loue due to men. Both, evidently shewing, that the more wee spend on thinges of lesse value, the lesse we are disposed to spend on thinges more preti­ous; sith, 1. Ioh. 3. 17. as a mans loue is, so is his willingnes to spend for loue sake: and the loue of apes and dogges may better stande with the loue of Children, Mark. 7. 27. eche of them beeing to bee loved, though not alike; then expenses on playes may with releeving of the poore, Prou. 19. 17. Mat. 25. 40. the Lorde accounting mercy had vpō the poore, as had vpō him selfe, & mony spēt on playes, being as mony spent on harlots. Wherfore, if you wil be sutable to your self, & as you deale for playes, so for the loue of apes & dogges, for which you may more reasonably; your threefold answer against Momus in your own defense, is quicklie turned against Caesar & Plutarch, for those strangers: The loue, which they did beare to the whelpes of dogges and apes, was their owne loue, it was not Caesars, or Plu­tarchs; great might it be to Caesar and Plutarch, meane to them; neither would they loue children the lesse for that, nor more with­out it. And as you assaulted Momus with the Scripture, telling him that Iudas his speech, who said, what needed this wast? is an evill speech; and nowe, notwithstanding the difference be­twene your playes and Christ; vs and Indas, doe thinke that it [Page 148] may also be applyed against either the niggardise, or the hypocri­sie of any Momus, that shall condemne all expense, as cast away, that is sometime moderatly bestowed vpon honest sportes and pa­stimes, and not vpon the poore: so, what letteth you to thinke that it may also bee applyed against either the clownishnes, or the hypocrisie of Caesar and Plutarch, who condemned all loue, as cast away, that is sometime, moderatly bestowed vpon sweete whelpes of dogges and apes, and not vpon children? For, if you should an­swer, the case is vnlike because you can not proove that mens colling and dandeling of such whelpes is seemely, which Caesar and Plutarch sawe good cause to reproove: you must bee re­membred that yet you may say, the thing is seemely, though say it onely, and deny their reproofe to bee iust, though not refute it; as you avouch against mee that your playes were honest and lawfull recreations, whatsoever is rather obiected then prooved to the contrary. Nay, if Caesar, or Plutarch, had, beside their reasons to proove it vnseemely; alleaged sundry testimo­nies of Romans and Grecians so esteeming it, as I did the iudge­ments of a Lacedemonian, of Horace, of Tullie of other learned men, to shew that they deemed such cost, as you were at, to bee vaine and wastfull: yet, as you reply to me that all Paynim and heathen iudgement you haue answered in the defense of your first reason; so might you to them, that all the testimonies which they bring, you haue aunswered in the Culpam prorsus Hip­polyto impu­tet, Iuveni protervo, cae­libi, duro, truci. prologue of your last play. I haue read The copie of a French let­ter to Don Bernardin Mendoze. that whē the Spaniards invincible navie mett with ours, about some five yeares since, vpon the narow seas, it was published in print, at Parise, by Mendoza the Spaniards procurement, that they gott a brave victorie, wherein my Lorde Admirall of England, with sixteene of the Queenes great shippes, were sunke to the bottome of the sea, and the rest put to flight with the Vice-admirall Francis Drake. But, God bee thanked, wee saw my Lord Admirall of England alive at her Maiesties late being here with vs: and now may the Mendozians picke out of their owne Lib. 1. ad ann. Christ. 1588. Mercurius Gallobelgicus, that neither any one shippe of the Queenes navie, were it great, or small, was sunke by the Spaniards, nor the Vice-admirall put to flight.

And thus at length approching vnto the conclusion, I come [Page 149] to your maintenance of that which you obiected concerning the iudgement of our Vniversitie. Wherewith (least I passe any thing of weight in your reply, as you doe many in mine) I will ioyne that elswhere you touch about the woorshipfull, & some­times honorable presence at your playes; and those reverend, fa­mous, and excellent men, for life, and learning, and their places in the Church of God, who haue bene not onely writers of such things them selves, but also actors, and doe thinke well of them (as you affirme) to this day. Our Vniversities iudgement there­fore you avow that you produced rightfully to the approoving of your playes, because the greater part of the Universitie did with their harty applause approove them. An argument, that neither layeth sound foundation, nor buildeth therevpon to purpose. For how proove you, first, that the greater part did with their harty appause approove them; seeing you acknowledge that many, some absent, some present, disallowed them? Forsooth, you say, you are sure of it. But your bolde avouching thinges, you are not sure of, doeth make mee dout of your assurance. For, vpon my speech that certaine who came thither were pressed therevnto by great importunitie, you wish they had more truly, and more charitably, for dansing, kissing, and other demeanour, reported to me of your playes, with such a minde as you will for­beare (you say) to speake of. Wherein you doe charge them, how charitably, iudge your selfe; but questionlesse, most vn­truly, with making false reports of your playes to me, to whom they made no report at all thereof. Yea, you take vpon you to pronounce of their thoughts: and say they did it with such a minde, as in your Quintilian. lib. 9. cap. 2. figurative forbearing to speake of, you speake most bitterly of, and raise a very wrongfull and vile suspicion of them. Againe, where I tolde you how the grave and learned man, our common friend, shewed me his dislike of the representa­tion of amorousnes, and drunkennes; in the Comedie, both; the former, not in it onely: you say, that you know how farre hee did somewhat dislike some Comicall action; but you are sure he com­mended much the playes to you, & would be sorry that any speech of his should bee, by mistaking, alleaged against you. And doe you not in assuring vs after this sort that hee did like of your [Page 150] playes, saving a litle in the Comedie, imply that hee disliked nought in any tragedie? Or breede you not a sclanderous sur­mise of his integritie, as if hee had commended to you the very same, which vnto me he discommended? Or seeke you not to make men thinke that I mistooke him, in fathering that vpon him; when him selfe hath sithence acknowledged vnto mee, that I mistooke him not; and (as I am perswaded) hath certifi­ed you no lesse too?

Wherefore your pronouncing, that you are sure the greater part did with their hartie applause approoue your playes, may ra­ther proove you to bee rash, then your assertion to be true. Chieflie, sith you mention, not onely their applause, a thing that sense might iudge of; but their harty applause, a circum­stance presumed by your conceit peradventure. For as they did Nisi displi­c [...]imus, vos gregi applau­sum date. clappe their handes after your playes, so Iterum be­nignus vndi­que applausus sonet. after the appendix thereof touching Momus. Which yet some approovers of your playes approoved not: as them selves haue signified. How can you then be sure, that all, who did clappe their handes, did it with liking; and that the applause, which they gave, was har­tie? Beside that, if their hearts ioyned with their handes, how can you be sure they approoved your playes by such applause, and not somewhat else? As Orat. pro P. Sextio. Tullie declareth that the Romans vsed it to shew their loue of gratious persons: and in Vlyss. red. e­pilogo. one of your playes Huic vos E­lisae quem de­cet plausum date. you wished it to be geuen to her gratious Maie­stie. Nether is it impossible, but that, as a Horat. epist. lib. 2. ep. 1. number gaue it to the Lana Taren­tino violas imitata ve­neno. apparell and furniture of the stage at Rome: so lighter bo­dyes might with you. And what if the grauer sort did shew the liking of your paines and charges employed for their delite sake? or of the better parts; not of wantons, of drunckards, & of the whole playes? Now, suppose the greater part of the Vni­versitie approoued them with their harty applause: might you therefore lawfully vrge the Universities iudgment as making for them? Yea, say you, if the greater part may denominate the whole, Nay, by your leaue, euen so too will you come short still, vnlesse you adde, that iudgement and harty applause is all one: which Cicero, orat. pro Plancio. he, who affirmed that In comitiis, praesertim ae­dilitiis, stu­dium esse populi, non [...]dicium. the people of Rome was lead with affection sometimes, not with iudgement, did put a difference [Page 151] betweene. And though the greater part denominate the whole, cōmonly; & alwayes may, if the woord, greater, be well expoun­ded: yet there fall out cases when the lesser part in number shall denominate it, and the greater shall not. For example sake, Synod. A [...] ­cyr. can. 2 [...]. Basil. ep. ad Amphil. can. 83. Greg. Nysse. epist. ad. Lat. can. 3 there were in the primitiue Church certaine Christians (as in ours there are) who, having lost sowewhat, would goe to a wi­sard, or a setter of figures, or other such soothsayer, to knowe how it went from them, or by what meanes they might reco­ver it. Sext. synod. in Trul. can. 61. One of the generall Councells spake against this: and called it [...], saith the Councell touching this and the like customes. a pernicious and an heathenish custome. The number of Bishops assembled in that Councell was lesser of all likely­hoode (amounting Theodor. Balsam. de ea synodo quae dicitur sexta. not to twelve score) then the number of Christians, who either vsed that practise them selves, or liked it in others. Yet, in my opinion, the Churches iudgement did controll it: and to say the contrary, because the greater part de­nominateth the whole, were most iniurious to the Church. Or, if this example satisfie you not, Can. 62. the same Councell made a de­cree, that [...]. no man should put on womans raiment. Whereto, being pressed by me, whē you reply that the voice of the Church therein may be interpreted by them who are of your minde; you acknowlege, that, taking it in the right sense, it is the Churches iudgement. And the sense thereof by Of the text of Scripture, Deut. 22. 5. where the Greeke trā ­slation hath, [...]: the very woords vsed by the Councell. your interpretation of putting on, or wearing, must be that none may doe it commonly. So, the Councell speaking of doeing it in playes, you graunt that the Churches iudgement is against it as common players vse to practise it. But greater assemblies of Christians then that Councell, allow it in common players: the Curtaine and The­ater can tell so much. Neither will you say, that common play­ers are approoved by the Churches iudgement. For, the Chur­ches iudgement you professe obedience too: yet Histrioniam accusas? Non defendo sed famam, pu­dorem, at (que) innocentiam. Histrioniam vero ipsam, vel tecum ac­cusabo, si voles. cōmon play­ers you condemne. The lesser part therefore in number may sometime denominate the whole; and the greater may not. Which if wee apply to the case in question, it is playne you should not have vrged the Universities iudgement for your playes, although the greater part thereof had approoved them. For, the chiefest cause that moved the governours of our Vni­versitie, the Uicechancellour and Convocation, to forbidde by [Page 152] statute the vse of common playes among vs, was, The Vniuer­sitie statute against com­mon stage­players: made in the yeare 1584. least the younger sort should be spectators of so many lewde and evil sports as in them are practised. Now, reason doeth give, that men of vnderstanding, who, through a godly care of the good trai­ning vp of youth, restrayned them from seeing those playes, because of such sportes; must thinke it inconvenient for them to see such sportes in what soever playes, even in your Rivales. And, if inconvenient to see such sportes onely, much more to play and represent such: the representing of them beeing so farre woorse, then the beholding, in De legib. lib. 7. Platos iudgement, that [...]. they would be seene and knowne, hee sayeth, because their contraries, honest things and serious, can not be knowen without them, if one intend to bee wise; but [...] practise both them, and their contraries, it is impossible, if one intende to have as much as a sparke of vertue. Our gouvernours might thinke more hopefully, then Plato, that vertuous youths may doe them both: and Plato peradventure meant by impossible, very hard, as De Vniversi. Tullie Plat. Timaeo; [...] cic. Difficil­limū factu. elswhere doeth interpret him. But the duetifull reverence, which I owe vnto them, will not permitt me to iudge of them, that where Plato suffered his citizens to see sportes of folly and scurrilitie, yet none [...]. beside bondslaves & mercenarie strangers to imitate and expresse them: the guides of our Universitie should deeme it convenient for youths to be actors of loose and wanton prankes, whereof to be spectatours, they have pronounced it vnmeete and hurtfull for them. Wherefore, what soeuer the greater part approoved with their harty applause, I am perswaded still that you did wrong in vr­ging the Universities iudgement as making for your playes. No lesse in a manner, then if one beholding a great number of Scholers playing in winter time at footeball, should saye, the Universities iudgement doeth approove it. Which I contrarie­wise should be so farre from thinking, that if any graver man were looking on them, or touched the ball with his foote, I would take it rather to savour of affection borne to some play­ing thereat, then of iudgement.

As for the worshipfull, and sometimes honorable presence at your playes, you might seeme to presse it against me with more cre­dit, [Page 153] if honorable and worshipfull persons never vsed to grace any playes, saue onely yours, with their presence. But if they be pre­sent at common playes also, such as our Vniversitie-statute ba­nisheth hence, and your selfe make offer that Histrioniam ipsam vel te­cum accusa­bo, si voles. you will ioyne with me in writing aginst the players thereof, if I will: consider with your selfe what you would aunswere to this argument al­leaged by those players, and let the same serve on my behalfe to yours. For a supply whereof I adde, that worthy personages, who, vpon intreatty, become your spectators, perhaps thinke with Plato, that the seeing of Comedies played can doe no harme, of tragedies may be dangerous; perhaps incline to A­ristotle, that they both may safely bee seene by elder folke, not by younger: and so, though them selves beholde one, or both, yet doe they warrant neither of the pointes you strive for; I meane, that either students of Christ-church may bee actors, or the youth of Oxford spectators of your playes. Plini episto­lar. lib. [...]. ep. 22. ad Sem­pronium Ru­fum. There were at Uienna, in the time of Traian the Emperour, by some bodyes last will and testament, certaine solemne games and shewes sett foorth yearely: Placuit ag [...] ­na tolli, qui mores Vien­nensium in­fecerat, vt noster hic omnium. the which, as Plinie saith, had stained the maners of the inhabitants of that citie, in like sort as the games & shewes sett foorth at Rome had stained the maners of all the world. This corruption of maners was not bredde by other exercises and masteries tried, in those games, but by the stage-playes, as a Petr [...] Faber, agonist. lib. 1 cap. 26. learned man of your profession iudgeth: and Panegyrico Trajan. Plinies owne speech, concerning sundry kindes of games among the Ro­mans, maketh it most probable, that he meant, the corruption grew from stage-playes chiefly, if not from them alone.

But when the Uiennians playes were taken away by Trebo­nius Rufinus, a governour of theirs, and he was accused to the Emperour for it: Iunius Mauricus, a graue and faithfull Coun­seller, being asked by the Emperour, what he thought thereof, said, Non esse re­stituendū Vi­ennensibus agôna. it was not meete the playes should be restored againe to the Viennians; adding, Vellem eti­am Romae tolli posset. I would to God they might be taken away at Rome too. Which corollarie of his sentence touching playes at Rome, it may bee, that as Viennensium vitia intra ip­sos residunt: nostra late vagantur. Vt­que in corpo­ribus, si [...] imperio gra­vissinus est morbus, qui à capite d [...] ­funditur. Plinie liked very well of, so the Emperour did: albeit he gave order for the not restoring of the Uiennians onely; and yet shewed great mislike of playes there­in [Page 154] also, forbidding that to bee done which by ones L. ult in sin. c. de fidei­comm. Nov. 1. in praefat. §. Semper. testament was required. Deceve not your selfe, Maister D. Gager, with a vaine conceit, as if, because a Prince, farre and farre more ex­cellent then Traian, though surnamed Optimus, Plin. locis ci­tatis; & Dio, Trajan. Xi­philini epit. most vertuous, with Her counsellers and Nobles more honorable then Mauricus, did vouchsafe the last yeare to see that Comedie played, which being played a few moonths before I reprooved, therefore you had gained against me the matter in question betwene vs. Her Maiestie with their Honors, & Commons of the realme, having made an Act of Parlament 14 Eliz. ca. 5 long since, and 35 Eliz. ca. 7 sith that time renewed it, that common players in enterludes, not licensed by speciall autoritie to goe abrode, shall bee adiudged rogues and va­gabonds, hath taken away more playes, and in more places, then Traian did by giving order that they should not bee vsed againe at Vienna. Whether the taking of them away at Oxford too, haue bene wished by any of the Counsellers, who might bee notwithstanding present with her Highnes, as Plinie & Mau­ricus of likelyhoode were with Trajan at the playes in Rome: you and I are not so neere of their counsell, that we can define. But thus much I may say, and say it vpon knowledge, that, if your Comedie had still as homely speeches (to say no worse) as it had when your Prolog. in Rivales co­maediam: a­ctam Febr. 1591. prologue praysed it, there is greater cause why you should feare the checke which Non putabā me tibi tam familiarem. Macrob. Sa­turn. lib. 2. cap. 4. Augustus gaue one (were not our Augusta the more gratious to vs) for presuming to play it before a presence of such honour: then why you should mention to the credit of your playes, and to my discre­dit, that they are thinges done by you, in a worshipfull, and some­times honorable presence.

But reverend, famous, excellent men, for life, and learning (you say) and for their places in the Church of God, have bene not onely writers of such thinges themselves, but also actors; and to this day doe thinke well of them: to whom it were a great reproche (thus you amplifie it) at any time to have bene acquainted with things of so vile & base qualitie; & much more, still to allow of thē. August. de bapt. contr. Donatist. lib. 2. cap. 1. When the Donatists praysed S ^t Cyprianus, cujus tantum meritum no­vimus, tantā ­que doctrinā. Cyprians life, and learning, and spake of Cum coëpis­copis suis. his place in the church of God, to countenance their errour by the reputation of such a Bishop and Martyr, [Page 155] S. Austin, answering thē, said that Non me de­terret autori­tas Cypriani, quia reficit humilitas Cy­priani. the autoritie of Cyprian did not dismay him, because the humilitie of Cyprian did relieve him. Which as Austin saide, considering how Ad Quintū, ep. 71. edit. Pam. Cyprian had sett down in writing, that Peter, whom the Lord chose his Mark. 3. 16. first A­postle, and Matt. 16. 18 vpon whom he built his Church, did not, when Gal. 2. 11. Paul afterward grew to question with him touching circumcision, take proudly on him selfe, to say that hee had the prerogative of beeing first, and that new-sprong and later-come ought rather to obey him; neither despised he Paul for Act. 9. 1. having bene a persequuter of the Church before, but yeelded to the advise of truth, and easily approoved the rightfull way, which Paul contended for; giving vs a lesson of peaceablenes, and patience, that wee should not ob­stinately loue our owne conceits; but such things as sometimes are profitably and holesomly shewed vs by our brethren and felowes in office, those should we account of as our owne rather, if they bee true and rightfull: whervnto Paul having a carefull eye also, and Christianly providing for concord and peace, said, 1. Cor. 14. 29 Let the Pro­phets speake, two or three, and let the rest iudge; and if any thing be reveiled to an other that sitteth by, lett the first holde his peace; teaching therein that many things are reveiled better to particu­lar persons; and that every one, if any thing bee found better and more profitable, ought gladly to embrace it, not obstinately to striue for that which hee hath once conceived and mainteined: as these points (I say) noted thus by Cyprian made Lib 2 ep. 5 Austin bee perswaded of him, that seeing he knew, he might more easilie erre then Peter, he would haue bene very well content to change his minde, if any man by Satis osten­dit, facillimè se correcturū fuisse senten­tiam suam, si quis ei de­monstraret, and so forth; meaning this kinde of proofe, as appeereth by that hee ad­deth, vndè multa jam diximus, cō ­pared with y ^t hee pointeth to, lib. 1. ca. 7. & by Cy­pri. ep. 47. ad Pompeium. Scripture had prooved him to be over­seene, or Gu [...] & ipse sine dubio ce­deret, si jam illo tempore quaestionis hu ius veritas eli­quata & de­clarata per plenariū con­cilium solida­retur. the Church had sifted the truth in a generall Councell, and agreed of it; so the knowledge of the same engraven in those learned and godlie men, whom you speake of, induceth me to thinke that when they shall haue weighed what grounds of Gods woord, what consent of the Church, what Councels, what Fathers, impugne their opinion, they will not approove your obstinat striving for it. It may bee, that they will mislike of your art too, in that, for the surer vniting of them to you, and stirring them vpp against mee, you doe not onelie affirme that they are exceedinglie tainted in honour, if playes, which they [Page 156] allow of, bee iustlie disallowed by mee: but also, that it were a great reproche to them, though not so exceedingly great, as is the other, yet a great reproch, at any time to haue bene acquainted with things of so vile and base qualitie. For why? Is the writing of Comedies, or tragedies, but what speake I of writing? in men­tioning whereof your art appeereth farther, sith I condemned it not: is the playing of them made by mee a thing of so vile and base qualitie, as persequuting, or blaspheming? Yet Saint Paul thought it no great disgrace for him, 1. Tim. 1. 13 in former time to have bene a blaspemer, and a persequuter, when ver. 12. he was now become a faithfull minister of Christ: no more then for the Romans Rom. 6. 17. to haue bene slaves of sinne, when they did now obey the doctrine of the Gospell; or for Abraham Ios. 24. 2. to haue bene in the land of Chal­daea & served other Gods there; when Gen 12. 5. he came now to Chanaan. and s ver. 8. served there the Lord. Not, Psal. 119. 67 Luk. 15. 10 1. Cor. 6. 11. Rev. 3. 18. & 7. 14. & 19. 8 to haue bene evill, is a re­proche; but to bee. Againe, what reason have you to say that a much greater reproch it were to them, still to allow of playes: when you commend S ^t Cyprian as a man of singular godlines, and zeale, Epist. 70. se­quen [...]ibus (que): & conc. Car­thag. de bap. baeret. who did more then allow, an other maner of matter then playes, even rebaptizing of men baptized by heretikes? For as he folowed Epist. 71. & 73. his predecessors in this errour, and therfore was the more excusable: so had the reverend men, whom you al­leage, their predecessors that trained them to the liking of playes. Neither is it probable that they have bene advertised of their oversight by any such mans writing, as Cyprian was by Vincent. Li­rin. contr. haer. cap. 9. Stephanus. And Epist. 73. & 74. Cyprian continued in his errour still, not­withstanding that advertisement: howe knowe you that they haue not changed their opinion? Or, if they have not changed it, they may ere they dye: which none is able to say that Cy­prian did, for ought that Epist 48. & de bapt. cont. Donatist. lib. 2. cap. 4. Austin could finde, a man most likely to haue found it, had there bene ought that could haue shewed it. Wherefore it savoureth stronglie of a bad qualitie, that you would perswade them, they must by my iudgement bee noted and disgraced with a fowle exceeding great reproche and infamie, if they allow of playes still. Much woorse doeth it savour, that you beare them in hand, although their mindes should alter and thinke hereof when they praye, Psal. 25. 7. Remember [Page 157] not, O Lord; the sinnes of my youth, it must bee neverthelesse a great reproche vnto them, at anie time to have bene acquainted with the writing and playing of such matters. But what qualitie, nay, what canker shall I say it savoureth of, that, vnto the Pro­phets, whose iudgement and autoritie the 1. Cor. 14. 32. spirits of these Pro­phets were likely to be mooved with, I meane, vnto the Fathers and Councels laid in balance by me against your testimonies, you reply, that, if they be rightly vnderstoode, their forces are not bent against you; Whereas your owne penne telleth you, that you know the contrary. For, the first and greatest Councell that I quoted, is Sexta syn [...] dus in Trull [...]. that generall Councell of Constantinople, which (grounding it selfe vpō the place of Deuteronomie) noteth mens wearing of wemens raiment in playes as a heinous crime. Now this to make against you, euen being rightly vnderstoode, your selfe did acknowledge whē I alleaged it afore: in so much that you opposed therevnto the opinion of others interpreting that text otherwise then the Councell doeth. The same did you likewise confesse of sundry Fathers vpon the same occasion, & namely of Saint Cyprian; whom here notwithstāding you doe namelie mention as making not against you: yea, whom you moreover doe sett downe for a speciall paterne of the rest, to inferre the generall, that none of all the Fathers or Councells doe reproove your playes. For, Saint Epistolar. [...]. 2. ep. 2. Cyprian (say you) inveigh­eth most eloquentlie and godly against the abuses of the Cothurnus est tragicus prisca facino­ra carmine recēsere, &c. tra­gike buskin in his time. So hee doeth also against the evills of warre, of iudgement seates, of iudges, of advocates, of golde, and riches. Shall we therefore conclude there should bee no warre, no tribunals, no iudges, no advocates, no golde, no riches; and like­wise no tragike buskin in any sort? Wherevpon you adde; No doubt the Fathers, as holy men of God, both in their Councelles, and in their bookes, have decreed, and written, many zealous & most godly things against the theatricall sightes of their times: but distinguish the times, the places, the qualities of the sights & actors, and the vse from the abuse; and it is evident by that which is said before, that we and our playes are not reproched by them. Thus labour you to face it out that your playes are not repro­ched by the Fathers, as dealing forsooth, iust like Saint Cyprian [Page 158] against the abuses of playing tragedies, not the vse; when yet you had graunted that Epist. 61. or (as your co­pie hath it) lib. 1. ep. 10. he condemneth Cùm in lege prohibeantur viri mu [...]ierē induere vestē & maledicti eiusmodi iu­dicentur: quā ­to maioris est criminis non tantum muli­ebria indu­menta acci­pere, sed & gestus quo (que) turpes, & molles, & muliebres, magisterio artis impudi­cae exprime­re? the attyring of boyes in womens raiment, and teaching them to Quemad­modum mas­culus franga­tur in foemi­nam. play the women, the self same thing he doth in the Evirantur mares; honor omnis & vi­gor sexus enervati cor­poris dede­core molli­tur; plusque illic placet quisquis virū in foeminam magis frege­rit. place you quote: so that your tra­gedie-playing is reprooved by him in your owne conscience, because of your Melantho and Nais played by boyes, al­though it were true that hee inveigheth onely against the abuses thereof, as you distinguish.

The trueth is that he distinguished not so, neither for tragike buskin, nor for comike stertvp, but inveigheth against stage-playing it selfe: in like sort as he doeth against the games and sights of Paratur gla­diatorius lu­dus, vt libidi­nem crudeli­um luminum sanguis oblectet. fensers, or sword-players, and of Quid illud, oro te, quale est, vbi se feris obiiciunt quos nemo damnauit? beast-players (so to terme them) wherewith he matcheth this of Converte hi [...] vultus ad diuersa spectaculi non minus paenitenda contagia: in theatris conspicies, quod tibi & dolori sit & pudori. stage-play­ers. So that the absurd conclusion which you frame, of no warre, no iudges, no advocates, no riches, if no tragike buskin, is framed amisse on errour, and would have reason enough if it were framed rightlie, as it should be, thus, that, if no stage-playing ought to be allowed by Saint Cyprians iudgement, then ought there no. Homicidium quum admittunt singuli, crimen est: virtus vocatur quum pu­blicè geritur. vniust warres, no perfidious advocates, no Patronus praevaticatur, & decipit. Iudex sententiam vendit. corrupt iudges, no. Divites, continuant [...] saltibus saltus, & de confinio pauperibus exclusis infinita ac sine terminis rura latius porrigentes. covetous encrochers on the poore, to be al­lowed: because he inveigheth as well against the iniquitie, trea­cherie, briberie, and miserie of these, as he doeth against stage-playing. Or, if you will needes have him to reproove the abu­ses onely of stage-playing, not the thing: then by like reason he reprooveth not the blooddy sport and game of beast-play­ers, or of sword-players, but the abuses of it. Which, I hope you will not affirme to be his meaning, no not for the former, sith [...]. the Church condemned it, as Advers. haer. conclus. compend. ver. doctr. de fide cath. & apost. Ecclesiae. Epiphanius witnesseth: [...], translated venationem, meaning that hunting which Cassiodore describeth, variar. lib. 5. epist. 42. Quo muner [...] venator explendus est, qui, vt spectantibus placeat, suis mortibus elaborat. &c. it, I say, the thing, not the abuses of it, as if it had a right vse, al­lowed by the Church. At least you will not make it his mea­ning [Page 159] for the later; which Emperours, lesse severe then that ho­lie Martyr, even Euseb. lib. [...] vit. Cōstant. cap. 25. Constantine, Cod. Theod. lib. 15. tit. 12. l. 1. Theodosius, Theodoret. hist. eccl. lib. 5. cap. 26. Honorius, and C. de gladi­atoribus pe­nitus tollen­dis. Iustinian, tooke absolutely away by edictes and lawes, as a thing faulty of it selfe. Though, when I consider your speech, above rehearsed, of so many Circi, Theatra, Amphitheatra, builded by the greatest & bravest Romans with huge charge; and of games sett out therein, referred by Aristotle to magnificence, a goodlie vertue: Your professed desire of approoving the Ro­mans iudgement so farre foorth, as serveth for the necessarie de­fense of your owne dooings, causeth mee to dout that seeing in [...]. Epiphanius. in the place quoted. Theatra, condemned by the Church, you distingush abuse from vse, you will in Ludi circen­ses: which he nameth [...]. Circi also, and [...]. Dio. lib. 43. vsed not onely to [...], whereof E­piphanius; but also to [...] & gladiato­ria certami­na. Tertull. de spect. cap. 12 & 1 [...]. Amphitheatra; and there­fore say that Cyprian reprooveth not the vse, but the abuses onely of beast-playes, yea of swoord-playes, vnlesse there come some other shift into your minde for severance of your stage­playes from them. And sure if one possessed with Discors. sopr. liv. lib. 2. cap. 2. O­sor. de nobi­lit. Christ. lib. 3. Machia­vells humour and loue of blooddy sacrifices, as helping by the sight thereof to make men valiant, should wish for blooddy games of swoord-players in like respect: he might, by your ex­ample, not onely chalenge them from the marke of infamie wherewith the Romans branded them, (for Satyr. 8. fuvenal, August. cap. 43. Calig. cap. 30. Sueto­nius, Annal. li. 15 Tacitus, and so foorth, doe reproche noble men and Knights for swoord-playing, not base folke;) but also defende them from the reproofe of Cyprian and all the rest of the Fa­thers. For De spectac. cap. 4. Cyprian inveigheth most eloquently and godly a­gainst the abuses of swoord-playing in his time. So Epist. lib. 2. ep. 2. he doth also against the evills of warre, of iudgement seates, of iudges, of ad­vocates, of gold, and riches. Shall wee therefore conclude there should be no warre, no tribunals, no iudges, no advocates, no gold, no riches, and likewise no swoord-playing in any sort? No dout the Iren. lib. 1. cap. 1. Tertull de spect. cap. 19. Arnob. advers. gent lib. 2. Minut. Felix in Octav. Lactant. diuinar. instit. epit. cap. 4. August. confess. lib. 6. cap. 8. Prudent. con [...]r. Symnach. lib. 2. Fathers, as holy men of God, haue written many Zealous and most godly things against the amphitheatricall sights of their times: but distinguish the times, the places, the qualities of the sights and actors, and the vse from the abuse; and it is evident by that which Machiavell saith, that swoord-playes of our age are [Page 160] not reproched by them. A very true sentence, that, no dout the Fathers haue written many zealous and most godly thinges a­gainst those sights of both sorts: and likewise true, no dout, that it is as evident by Machiavels discourse, that, if such swoord­playes should now be vsed in London, as were then at Rome, the Fathers checke them not; as it is by yours, that the Fathers doe not repoche the same stage-playes of Plautus, Terence, Seneca, or woorse (which comparison Rivales may well beare) played here, of late, among vs. Wherefore it had bene better for your credit to conteine your selfe within generalities, by saying that men mistake the Fathers: as Machiavell contented him selfe to say in grosse, that base and cowardly wretches have misse-in­terpreted our religion. For then I could not haue blamed you about particulars; your policie had prevented me, as it hath in Chrysostome: whose testimonie, Homil. 56. in Gen. [...]. quoted by mee against your wastfull expenses on such toyes, you make no aunswer to, no more then to Clem. Alex­andr. poedag. lib. 3. cap. 11. [...]. Salvian. de gubern. Dei lib. 6. Perditae expensae. others whom I quoted not. Now, when you af­firme that Cyprian, and the rest, writing against the theatricall sights of their times, doe not write against such as in our time are vsed: I must needes tell you, that you shew lesse conscience and singlenes in your writing, then to whom you ought and easily might excell in all religious duties, Bodinus, and Lipsius. Of whom Bodin. de re­pub. li. 6. ca. 1 the one, declaring what neede there is for Censors for theaters of our time, alleageth sundry Fathers, and namelie Cy­prian, against them: yea, that very epistle of Lib. 2. ep. 2. Cyprian, which you specifie, and wring to the contrarie. The Lips. de gla­diatorib. lib. 1. cap. 7. other, observing how the Fathers have inveighed against games, as Libidinis sae­vitiaeque fon­tes. springes of lust, and crueltie; pointing, in the terme of lust, vnto theaters; of crueltie, vnto amphitheaters; doeth argue that swoord-playes, if they were vsed in our time, might bee as well denied to bee reproched by the Fathers, as stage-playes of our time are. But, with whatsoever cunning or boldnes, you blinde the eyes of children, and make them beleeve that these ancient Prophets write not against your fansie: the praise given by you to our owne Prophets, those reverend and famous persons now living, causeth me to feare I was too faint when I said, They will not approove your obstinate striving for it; I should haue said, They [Page 161] will not approove your bare opinion or this, will, is also too faint; They doe not approove it. For, being excellent men in life, they love modestie, and yeeld vnto the knowen truth. Beeing ex­cellent in learning, they know that your theatricall sights are of the same kinde, that the Fathers have decreed in their Coun­cells, and written in their bookes against. The thinges which the Fathers have decreed and written, are not only zealous, but also most godly, as you say. Most godly; therefore consonant to the holy Scriptures: on the ground whereof it is expressely no­ted by In the place aboue quoted. Epiphanius likewise that [...]. the churches doctrine and or­dinances were framed. And how can it bee thought then with any likelyhoode, that those reverend persons doe approove your stage-playes: which, by all presumptions, and your own verdict, they know that the Church, the Fathers, the Councels, the Scrip­tures have condemned? In deede if they were Papists, and such as would rather put on the shamelesse forehead of the hoore of Babylon, then confesse them selves to have bene overseene: a man might haue reason to think, that their owne doeings they would still allow of. For, wheras the profane and wicked toyes of Passion-playes, playes setting foorth Christs passion, procured Magno sce­lere atque impretate sa­cerdotum, qui eiusmodi fieri curant: faith Viues. by Popish Priests, who, being 2 Cor. 11. 3 corrupted from the simplicitie that is in Christ, as they have transformed the celebrating of the Sacrament of 1 Cor. 11. 20 the Lords supper into a Missale Ro­manū: tit. de ritib. cele­brādi Missam Masse-game, and all other partes of Ecclesiasticall service into Sacerdotale, Pōtificale, & Ceremonia­le Romanū. theatricall sights; so, in steede of 2. Tim. 4. 2. preaching the word, they caused it to be played; a thing Epist. Iapa­nic. 18. Io. Fernandis Bongo. put in practise by their flowres, the Iesuits, among the poore Indians; but whereas these bables were reprooved by Comment. in Augustin. de ciu. Dei, lib. 8. cap 27 Vives: the Index expur­gatorius. Purgatorie-censors commanded Deleantur cap. 27. lite­ra D ab, At­qui mos nunc est, &c. vsque ad E. that reproofe of his to be defaced; and the Autuerpien­si editione operum Aug. Divines of Lovan have razed it out accordingly. Yea, though Concil. Me­diolan. 1. Constit. part. 1. cap. de a­ctionib. & repres. sacris. some Italian Bishops in a Coun­cell, vnder their Archbishop Cardinall Borrhomaeus, have Statuimus vt deinceps Saluatoris passio nec in sacro, nec in profano loco agatur. orde­red, for their Province, that the Passion shall not bee played here­after any where: yet (for feare of breeding a scruple in mens mindes that their Church might erre) they say, Pie introducta consuetudo repraesentandi populo venerandam Christi Domini passionem. it was a custome religiously brought in. So loth are ambitious spirits to acknow­ledge [Page 162] their oversights and faults. But seeing that our reverend Pastors and Doctors haue an other spirit, as Numb. 14. 24. he saith of Caleb, and professe a purer religion then Papists: you must give mee leave to suspect rather that you charge them wrongfully, then that men of excellent godlines and wisdome doo allow and thinke well of so manifold evills, as in your playes I haue disclosed.

And thus, a great deale later then my desire and hope was, but as soone as sicknes and busines would permit, haue you that performed, which in your conclusion, by woords, you re­quest me to forbeare the doeing of; in your whole discourse, by deedes, you haue induced and vrged mee to vndertake. The reason added by you to move mee to forbeare it, namely, that I have some thing else to doe, then to trouble my selfe, and my bet­ter studies, with a matter of this nature and moment; I knowe not whether it would haue seemed sound to others, sure to mee it did not. For, if I had lived among the Iewes at that time, when 2. Maccab. 4. 14. the priests neglecting the service of the altar, and sacri­fices of the law, made hast to be partakers [...]. of vnlawfull games in the wrastling place: I should of all studies haue deemed that the best, which the Lord requireth at his Prophets hands, Ezek. 13. 5. to rise vp in the gappe, and keepe out Matt. 13. 25 Eph 6. 11. 1. Pet. 2. 11. the enemie striving to enter in thereby, What studie therefore could I account so good, as this, to spend my vacant time in, when Christians, 1. Ioh. 2. 20. anointed by God, 1. Pet. 2. 5. an holy Priesthood, make hast from spirituall sacrifices and service to be partakers of stage-playes; that is, of more vn­lawful games then were [...] Plutarch. Symposiac. li. 2. quaest. 4. those exercises in the wrastling place, as 1. Cor. 9. 25. Tertullian. lib. ad Mar­tyras, cap. 3. the thing it selfe, & your own L. 4. Compa­rata cuml. 2. D. de his qui not. infam. law may teach you? Againe, the Prou. 22. 6. vertuous training vp of youth among vs, and the Matt. 5. 14. Eph. 2. 10. Phil. 2. 15. godly life of all sorts of persons, are matters of great moment and weight in his sight, 1. Pet. 1. 17. who without respect of person iudgeth eve­rie man according to his woorke. Now, what hurt it is for youth to bee seasoned with a liking of stage-players; I say not, to bee stage-players them selves, which is woorse, but to have a liking and love of such onely; the autour of Dialog. de oratorib. Ta­cito inscript. the dialogue (were it Ta­citus, or Quintilian) touching the decay of eloquence among the Romans, doeth shew by Propria & peculiaria huius vrbis vitia, histrio­nalis favor, & gladiato­rum equoru­que studia. Quibus oc­cupatus & obsessus ani­mus quantu­lū loci bonis artibus relin­quit? their example. And, how the maners of all spectators commonlie are hazarded by the contagion of [Page 163] theatricall sights, I made plaine vnto you in my former letters by the testimonies of learned men and noble nations; all gran­ted by your selfe, or as good as granted, in that you haue either not answered them at all, or vnsufficientlie. Wherefore, consi­dering S. Confession lib. 6. cap. 7. Aust. zealous care to reclaime Alipius (a young man whō he loved, a worthy Bishop afterward) from Insania Cir­censium, as S. Austin ter­meth it. the vaine delite that he tooke in seeing games of chariot-drivers: I could not but esteeme it a thing of price, and woorth, to seeke to reclaime from a farre more vaine and dangerous delite the Students of your house, among whom there are many no lesse deere to me then Alipius was to Austin, and as likelie (by Gods grace) hereafter to proove well. With whom I have also greater cause to hope that I shall prevaile, then he had with Alipius, because your selfe tell me, that you doe and ever will most gladly em­brace, not onely my good will, but also my iudgement in this cause so farre as I write in the generall against stage-players. For I am perswaded that their opinions of me are as kinde as yours: and then doe they agree with me in a maner about the point wee treate of. They will agree wholy, if they weigh advisedlie one rule, which L. 147. D. de regulis iuris. you can teach them, and I would I might entreat you so to doe: namely, that Semper spe­cialia gene­ralibus in­sunt. the generall doeth evermore com­prise the speciall. The Lord behold both them, and you, in his mercy: and giue you all his grace to know the way that lea­deth vnto life eternall, and to walke therein.