SECTION I.

THat M ^r. PAGET might the easier perswade the Reader to be on his side, Answer to the Preface. and to thinke his case right and good: hee seeketh in the Preface of his Booke, to disgrace exceedingly the publisher of the just complaint, against his unjust doings. And this hee doth two wayes: First in affirming that hee sought helpe of the Brownists. Secondly that hee is a simple person, one of the least understanding among the Subscri­bers.

ANSWER.

1. IT is untrue that I sought any helpe of them: For I never spake to any of them about the thing, but onely to the Prin­ter: [Page 2]And it was nothing but this, viz. that hee should make a title Page answerable to the copy: whereas therefore hee insinuateth that the Brownists were chief agents in the worke; and encouraged me and others against him. This is not so: For to my knowledge, not any of them, were made acquainted with the thing, untill I brought it to the presse. And the reason why I made use of him, it was not be­cause of his Religion, but because hee was an English Printer, and therefore the more fit (as I thought) to be imployed.

But indeed a simple man may easily gesse, for what end, and use hee names these men; hee doth it (much like Sanballats devise against Nehemiah) to have matter for an evill report, Neb. 6.13. and that hee might reproach me. Hee knew well, these people are hated of the world, and spoken in many places badly off; and therefore doubted not, but most men would give sentence wholy on his side, when they should heare that his opposites sought helpe of them. And that which I here say, I say it on good ground; For whensoever in his harsh and passionate writing, hee goeth about (as often hee doth) to make us vile in the eyes of all men, hee compares us with the Brownists, not prooving against us any sinne, but concludeth wee doe evill, whensoever in any thing wee accord with them. Many instances I could give for proofe hereof; as for example in pag. 6. seeking to discredit many of us, about the Lords Supper, hee tells us our plausible speaches and pretences of reverence to it, are such as the Brownists will say. So in another place, charging us with pretended reverence to the Classes and Synods. Hee saith the Brownists them­selves will seeme to give as much. Pag. 84. Againe to reproach some of the Brethren for certaine exercises which they used privately in their families; wee are told that the thing is worse, then that which the Brownists doe. Pag. 105. VVhen wee complaine against him for depriving us of much heavenly meanes of edification; Hee answereth that the same may be found in such as Mr. Ainsworth, Mr. Iohnson, M ^r. Ro­binson and M ^r. Iacob. Pag. 121. Now is not this fine reasoning, and well beseeming a Teacher in Israel The like doughty rea­sons hee gave to Mr. Daven. to perswade him to be of his judgement in pag. 40.41.: in truth as very a Simplician as hee makes mee to be; yet I suppose I would not write, to so small a pur­pose: For in my understanding hee reasoneth to this effect: The Iesuits and other Popish Priests teach sundry untruths; M ^r. Paget teacheth many things as they doe: therefore M ^r. Paget teacheth many untruths. If this argument will not passe in Schooles, then [Page 3]certainly a great part of M ^r. Pagets Booke, wants, as truth, so art too.

2. For his reputing me to have the least understanding among the complainants: I little esteeme thereof; for indeed I know my Talent this way is very small, yet I prayse God for it; and doe de­sire to improove the same unto his glory; and wish from my heart, that as Mr. Paget hath received a greater measure of good gifts, so hee would hereafter labour to put them to a better use; and not seeke by his witt and learning, to discountenance the truth, and countenance errour, to the dishonour of Gods great Name, the generall grief of many good people, and to the hardning of sinners in their perverse and crooked wayes. Luk. 12.48 Hee knowes well enough were it is written, Ʋnto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required.

3. It doth not well become a man of M ^r. Pagets place and pro­fession, to upbraid any with their simplicity, 1 Cor. 1.27 Act. 4.13. Mat. 18.19. Iudg. 6.15. and meannesse gifts; considering how the Lord many times chooseth the foolish things of the world, to bring great things thereby to passe. And truely for mine owne part, as weake as I am, yet I trust through Christ to be able to defend our just case undertaken against him, Phil. 4.13. howsoever I know my self in diverse respects many wayes infe­riour unto him. And therefore I doe entreat him to lay boasting aside; and not glory in the flesh; but to follow the truth in love, 1 Kings 20 12. without calumniations and evill speaches, that so our controversy may the better and sooner be ended.

4. But if I am so ignorant, as hee reports me to be, how came it then to passe, that hee and others made an Officer of me? the Scrip­tures forbid that one of the least understanding should be made a Deacon in any Church of God. Act. 6.3. 1. Ti. 3.8.9 Rom. 12.8. Certainly therefore when I was elected, either you M ^r. Paget dealt not well with the Congre­gation, in not dehorting them from the action; by shewing unto them my great unfitnes; or otherwise you have now out of some ill will, taken up this thing of purpose against me, in hope by the disabling of me, to honour the more your self, and your owne bad­doings by it.

5. Such as will impartially read your Booke, may plainly perceive, that there is in you a very ill property: that is, in not-carying your self more meekely, and gently, towards him, whom you judge to be [Page 4]the weakest of many. Pauls practise was otherwise, hee never shewed himself (that wee can read) froward, violent and bitter in speaches unto weake and simple men. It was not his manner to gibe, 2 Cor. 11.29. 2 Tim. 2.24.25. Eph. 6.4. Gal. 6.1. scoffe and gird at them, and to publish abroad unto others their infirmities, of set purpose to exasperate them, and to make them contemptible. The more infirme any member is, in our na­turall bodies, the more softly wee handle it. But have you M ^r. Pa­get dealt so with me? (speake out.) You say, I am simple; I pray what meanes have you used to make me wiser? Have you hitherto taken any particular course for my bettering? Saveing of late in­deed, you have sent forth into the world many untruths against mee. If your simple and weake people shall find such hard dealing at your hands, what may be stronger and wiser exspect. Well may I say in another mans words, Is this the long suffering spirit of meek­nes, in seeking to recover the lost. Pol. Virg.

6. If Mr. Paget dare take my testimony, I doe assure him, there are many that wonder at his great oversight; how hee could without blushing, mention the Brownists in this thing; as thinking to advantage his case any way by it. Considering what a chief agent hee hath bene unto some, which were some times of them: not onely to set their discontented humours upon scandalous enter­prises; but to gather up himself, all the personall fayling which hee could find out among them, and afterwards under other mens names, to publish it in print, whereby to make them odious. Oh me thinkes seeing hee knew himself faulty this way, hee should have bene therewith so deepely affected, as (in the words of an­other) said; As I have done, so hath God requited me. Indeed wee read in Scripture, Iudg. 1.7. that the Lord many times punisheth men in the same kind and manner wherein they have offended Exod. 22.23.24.1. Sam. 15.35. Eccl. 7.21.22. Est. 7.10. Frov. 5.22 Psal. 7.16. But I perceive M ^r. Paget lookes upon others, otherwise then on himself, and thinkes his neighbours may not take the liberty, to returne that backe unto him, which hee sends abroad.

But to leave him in the midst of his owne thoughts; I doe de­sire thee (good Reader) to take notice, how greatly hee hath abu­sed thee, and many others, by a false report, in saying that the Brow­nists were speciall Actours in the worke, chief agents, setters of us at worke, encouragers of us against him. Whereas (I speake it in all good conscience) that not one of them, to my knowledge, did ever [Page 5]meddle with our matters, or helped us at any time, either by word or writing. Indeed when I brought the copies to the presse, I en­treated the Printer (as I said before) to set it out in a good order, and no other assistance was there sought, either from him, or any other of them.

M ^r. Paget promiseth his Readers in the first page of his Pre­face, to give some light unto them, for the better decerning and jud­ging of the differences between us. Now truely if this be his best light, I hope the Godly wise will take heed how to follow it. For in truth the light which hee here sets up, is much like unto a false latterne, which ill disposed people hang out on some cleft or high place, of purpose to cause the Mariners to misse the haven, and to runne their Vessells on the rocks. Much better therefore hee had done, if hee had followed the Apostles precept; that is, Ro. 14.13. Not have put a stum­bling blocke, or an occasion to fall in his brothers way. For such a practise displeaseth God, and bringeth alwayes at last sorrow and shame unto the doer of it.

SECTION II.

TOuching the matter conteyned in his Booke, my answer to it (if God will) shall be thus: First I will shew how inju­riously hee hath dealt with me in particular. Secondly proove, that the things which hee maintaineth against us, are unlawfull.

In the 92 page of his Booke hee proclames me to be a man that have given great offence, and am become an evill example unto many, by the open violation of the Sabbath in mine owne house, and by re­sorting unto the assembly of the Remonstrants, and have bene admo­nished by him in the name of the Eldership, and have justly deserved farther Censure.

ANSWER.

1. IT is a note (as God noteth it by Ezechiel) of an unfaithfull sheapheard, that hee seekes not that which was lost: How di­rectly this note appeareth in M ^r. Paget, may be seene here, and els where in writing. For howbeit hee hath set mee, and others forth before all men, for heynous offendours, most sinfull walkers, Ch. 33.4. deser­vers of Church Censures, &c. notwithstanding to this day he hath [Page 6]not performed a brothers duety, Mat. 18.15 16. Lev. 19.17 Prov. 25.9. much lesse a Pastours towards any of us, in using meeke and Christian meanes, to bring us, if wee goe astray, in to the right way againe. If an earthly father should tell openly his childrens faults abroad, but never at home mention them unto them, hee would be (and justly too) greatly condemned for it. Then how much more is M ^r. Paget to be discommended, that did not endeavour to make his people to see their faults, untill they did see them out in print under his hand. Hee can teach us, that it is our duety to advertise him of his defects and neglects in private; but it seemes hee takes not the care which he should, Pag. 94. to practise his owne doctrine. The which thing makes his case the worse, for to him that knoweth to doe good, Iam. 4. ult. and doth it not, to him it is sinne. That is, his offence is the greater, and answerable to it (without true re­pentance) will his punishment be. Luk. 12.47 Our dealing with him hath bene otherwise; for wee brought nothing forth publikely against him, before wee had used other meanes for his recovery: Yea till wee found the wound incurable, Mich. 1.9. & he in his courses incorrigible, so farre I say from giving us any hope of amendement, as that hee deprived us quite of all power to meddle any further with him, and answered us, not much unlike the old Iewes, Ier. 2.25. I have loved strangers, and after them I will goe.

I know in pag. 15. hee beareth the Reader in hand, as if wee had not shewed his sinnes unto him out of the Word of God; and hence abuseth a saying in Iob. But many can testify the contrary, to wit, that his sinnes have bene shewed to him out of the word of God (I say) many times, & by many persons, & not Brethren onely, but our Elders too, privately and openly; as is to be seene in the Records of our Church, where they doe protest both against his doeings and the Classis also. But saith hee, I am not convinced of my errour. So may any offendor say, although his lies and vanities should be never so soundly refuted. It is reported of one Anaxagoras, that hee af­firmed, that the snow was black; and when it was alledged, that the sence, the eye, the sight, judged it to be white: hee answered, it did not as much as seeme white to him, Cic. in Lu­cull. Aca. Quaest. l. 4. because hee knew that the water of which it was concealed is black. Men might say what they list against him, but they could not satisfy him, nor solve his reason. If M ^r. Paget were not overmuch conceited touching his opinions in question, I am perswaded hee would leave them: For suffi­cient [Page 7]hath bene said for his conviction therein.

2. For my gooing to the Assembly of the Remonstrants, It is true, I have bene there; and M ^r. Paget afterwards had a little speach with me about it: But no word of God, to my remembrance, did hee then alledge, to convince Act. 18. ult. 2 Tim. 3.16.17. my conscience of the unlawfullnes of the thing. Moreover hee should have done well, to have told his Readers, what my answer was at the same time unto him. I spake (as hee knowes) to this effect: If I goe astroy, it is through your occasion, in casting stumbling blocks Mat. 18.6. dayly in my way, so many and great, that my spirits is even broken within me: For your caraiges are so evill against us, in seeking to hinder us from the benefit of good Ministers, that I cannot live under yours with any comfort. What reliefe my poore distressed soule then had of him, I shall never for­get: For I may say (and that truely) as Iob did in the like case; hee was a miserable comforter, a Physician of no value. Iob 16.2.5. The mooving of his lips was so farre from asswaging my grief, that on the con­trary, hee heaped up words against me to encrease mine affliction. In the reading of this accusation, it comes to my mind, what I have sometimes seene in the Country where I lived, viz. many poore sheepe, even forced to runne into deserts, hedges, briars, through the impatience & rage of some feirce & froward Shepheards; either in setting their dogs on them, or running in themselves furiously amongst them: the which folly and indiscretion had they not shewed, none of their flocke would have gone astray. The appli­cation of this, I referre to M ^r. Paget. Let him consider of it, take advise, and speake his mind; and if hee please compare with it Ierem. 23.1.

3. If to resort to the Assembly of the Remonstrants be so hey­nous an offence before the Lord, that it deserveth as hee saith the Censure of the Church; how then comes it to passe, that hee deales in this thing so badly with others? Hee is a member of the Classis, and hath therein (according to his owne doctrine) equall authority with the rest over the Dutch Church here in Amsterdam. Now it is well knowne to him, and such as sitt with him, that many of the Dutch members doe resort frequently unto the Assembly of the Re­monstrants. Notwithstanding doth M ^r. Paget tell them of their great wickednesse▪ exhort his fellow Presbyters to admonish them for it, and to cut them of from the Church, except they repent. The [Page 8]truth is, as farre as I can understand, hee is quite dumbe this way, and stirres not at all in it, and therefore it is certaine, that that which hee here brings in against me, is either done out of some disaffe­ction unto my person, or els hee shewes great impartiality, to say the best of it. But it seemes hee is not carefull to have his ministery like a glasse, in which all may behold their sports; but rather to the spiders web, which holdeth the lesser Flyes, but lets the greater passe through at their pleasure. And here I may well returne backe un­to him, Arrow against se­par. pag. 323. liu. 31 his owne words: (having taxed M ^r. Ainsworth for partia­litie) Let all men of conscience iudge what sincerity there is in your course. Thus hee can take occasion to blame another: and yet fall fouler himself into the same fault.

4. Whereas hee intimateth that hee in the name of the Elder­ship hath admonished me for the open violation of the Sabbath. I desire the Reader to take knowledge, that no such thing was ever done by him; neither did I know, that either hee, or the Elders, had any such thing against me, till I saw the accusation out in print. And what I here say, M ^r. Paget knowes it to be true, although with his pen hee hath writen otherwise. Hee complains against M ^r. Davenport in pag. 42. for want of sincere and plaine dealing. And why? because the other without his knowledge did write his words. But what cause have I to complaine against him, for want of plaine and sincere dealing, for publishing against me many un­truths. Notwithstanding I will not bid him, as hee doth me, to awa­ken his frozen and benummed conscience, (for I have better learned Christ, 1 Pet. 3.9. then to render evill for evill) onely in all singlenesse of heart, as before the Lord, I doe entreat him, to take more heed hereafter unto his words, and that the Law of truth See Mal. 2.6. may be in his mouth, and that hee will speake it from the heart. Hee promised the Reader to stand on his watch, and not to doe the least wroung to his opposites, Preface. for the greatest which they had done unto him. Thus indeed hee spake; but hath hee done so? not in the least. For I may truely say, as the Prophet saith, Hee hath spoken and done evill things as hee could. Ier. 3.5. Of which wee shall have just occasion to speake more hereafter.

5. Howsoever hee hath charged me with open violation of the Sabbath, yet to proove the thing so, [...]ee will never be able to doe it, though hee strive till his heart ake. And therefore (Christian [Page 9]Reader) thou mayest see, how farre hee is from taking good wayes to restore me, if I am fallen, as on the contrary hee seekes by blot­ting my name, to keepe me onward still in an uneven walking. But to answer him directly; if Mr. Paget had bene as foreward, to have made inquirie for the truth of the thing, as too foreward to publish an untruth about it, hee should have heard with his eares, and seene with his eyes, that I am so farre from offending this way, that my care and labour to the contrary hath bene an occasion of some dif­ference in my familie as also of many jests and reproaches from my neighbours about me. And here let it againe be observed, the great partiality of this man: hee taxeth me for Sabbath breaking Now if hee thinke, as hee speaketh, that it is a sinne to buy and sell on that day. Oh how negligent then is hee in the worke of the Lord, in not being more Z alously earnest, to have the same reformed. Hee can­not possibly be ignorant, that under his Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment (as hee takes it) there are many scoores, constantly breakers of the day; I say many wayes: notwithstanding hee suffereth them alone, and never admonisheth them thereof. But how hee will be able to answer this unto God, let hee himself looke well to it. It may be hee thinkes to helpe himself with that devise, which hee talkes off in pag. 97. viz. a quarter watching; but for my part I verily thinke, that the Lord will require a strict account Matt. 25.24. of him, for every soule, whither English or Dutch, that hee hath undertaken to be a watch man unto them; and if hee have taken upon him a greater charge, then hee is able to looke unto: Let him consider, whither hee may not justly feare, that the Lord will punish him, for his presumption and omission too.

Lastly whereas hee addes the word, open, to have the Reader thinke, that my offence this way is notorious. I answer, that never to my knowledge was there any doore or window in my Shop ope­ned on the Lords day, to make outwardly any shew, whereby to draw people into the same. In a word that which hath bene deli­vered to any, hath bene for the most part physicall things, for the present use of sicke people.

SECTION III.

BEcause the fowler will be sure to kill the bird if hee can: Hee therefore chargeth his peece with many shots; that so, if one doe misse, yet another may strike her dead. M r. Paget in this place comes out against me, Pag. 153. 154. much like such a gunner, seeking at one shott to shute all terrible bullets into my sids. But I shall endeavour (the Lord assisting me) to avoyd them all, by making it cleere and evi­dent (to every indifferent Reader) that I am not injurious in any one of the particulars, wherewith hee most injuriously accuseth me.

First hee sayth, I am iniurious to M ^r. Davenport in printing that which hee wrote without his consent.

ANSWER.

1. HOwsoever M ^r. Davenport knew not of it, yet for ought I knew hee was not unwilling to have it published.

2. Though hee wrote it, yet the matter jointly concerned us all; therefore it was necessary (as I thought) that it should not ly hid in the hands of a few men; seeing (most probably) by the publishing of it, God would be glorified, the truth cleared, errour confuted, and many good Christians comforted.

3. Howsoever M ^r. Paget here finds fault with me; notwith­standing the same thing hath bene sometime his owne practise. I pray, who gave him leave to set forth M ^r. Ainsworth writings; or what consent had hee of M ^r. Robinson, when hee printed certain letters of his, sent privately to D. Ames. I doe not mention his doings, to justifie my owne thereby; but onely to shew his great partialty, in judging that to be evill in another, which himself notwithstanding is most forward to doe. Is not Pauls saying here worthy of remembrance, Rom. 2.21. Thou which teachest another, teachest thou not thy self.

The second injury which I have done is to some of my fellow-complaynanss, who professe themselves (as hee saith) highly offended at the printing thereof.

Answ. If they be offended, the question is, whether it be not an offence taken, but none given. As for M ^r. Paget, hee hath not yet [Page 11]prooved (nor I thinke ever will) that I have transgressed in it; and therefore hee begs onely the question, not being able to bring any word of God to convince me of sinne: for suppose I should here reason thus; If some of my fellow complaynants, doe professe them­selves to be highly offended with M ^r. Paget, for his bad caraiges, unchristian speaches, and divers great abuses offered unto many good men: Then hath Mr. Paget bene injurious unto them. But some of my fellow complaynants doe professe thus: Therefore &c. Now let me see what defence hee can make for himself, which will not serve to cleare me every way as well.

A third pretended injury is, because a Brownist did print it, with a schismaticall addition in the end.

Answ. I doe deny that addition to be schismaticall; but contrary wise holy and good, even a duety commaunded in Scripture, pra­ctised in the best and purest Churches, justifyed by the most judi­cious Divines, ancient and moderne; as I shall hereafter largely proove. But no marvaill that M r. Paget is offended at it, seeing the Godly are there encouraged to stand fast in that freedome and liberty, which Christ hath purchased for them with his owne blood. This hee cannot indure; this hee cannot read with patience; against this hee proclames open warre, gibes often at it, and reproacheth every one that sincerely embraceth the same. But let him take heed, least for calling good, evill; Chap. 5.20. God bring not the woe in Esai upon his head.

As for the unreverend terme it self, which hee giveth unto Christs instuution: we weigh it not, neither are we any more dis­couraged, from the holding of it fast, then were our fathers of el­der time, discouraged from embracing the Gospell, Act. 28.22. & 24.5. 1 Cor. 1.23 Act. 24.14 because the enimies of it, called it schisme, faction, folishnes, heresie, &c. It is reported of one Theodotius, having denyed Christ, that hee might not be blamed for it, taught that Christ was meere man and not God: So Mr. Paget in the case of Church gouvernment, that his owne and other mens faults may not be seene, in not using or sub­mitting to it, doth labour what hee can to discredit the same. But whether the power which wee stand for, be schismaticall, or his Apostaticall, I hope by this Treatise, the Reader shall be able to judge.

4. Hee saith, I have bene injurious unto him, in spreading ab [...]oad so many untruths against him, as are before noted.

Answ. 1. I had a just cause to doe, what I did; both for the truth sake, and his owne too: For first if every good subject be bound (to his power to maintaine the temporall rights and Lawes of Princes, whether it be by discovering of treason, suppressing rebellion, or the like: Then much more ought all Christs subjects to doe what they can, Rev. 2.25. to preserve the good estate of his spirituall Kingdome. Againe, who will not draw his brother out of a deepe pit or well, if hee see any way or meanes for it. The truth is, Mr. Paget through Satan and his owne lust, is fallen into many great sinnes; and there­fore out of Christian compassion to his soule, I published the booke; being confident, if there be any farther course, to be taken by me for his recovery, this is it; because now (questionles) hee shall see (if hee will be contended to open his eyes) his errours soundly and effectually refuted.

2. Whereas hee saith our writings are untruths. I say hee speakes untruely in it; for there is nothing set downe there, but will be prooved; as in part I shall doe in this treatise; and more, I understand, is shortly to come forth. Besides I doubt not, but M ^r. Davenport will doe the like, so farre as the thing concerneth him.

3. Howsoever hee hath made a large discours, in his owne justi­fication, notwithstanding hee hath not cleared himself at all, in the maine things laid to his charge, viz. promiscuous Baptisme, and the authority of the Classis. Yet hee knowes untill hee proove these two points to be lawfull, our whole writing standeth firmely, and effe­ctually against him. As for the many sw [...]ll [...]ng [...] used (through­out his booke) in his owne praise: In my understanding it had beene better, Prov. 27.2. if some other had done it, and not his owne mouth. In the Olympicks games men did not put garlands and Crownes on their owne heads, but waited till others did it. In truth self prayse is very unseemely. Hence in derision they say: Hee dwelt by bad neighbours: Besides such persons usually are least credited Ioh. 8.13.: and good reason too, for the greatest boasters, are commonly the worst dooers. 1 Sam. 15 13. Revel. 3.15. &c. As the emptiest vessels make the loudest sound, driest things the greatest flame; so those which proclame, as with sound of trumpet, their owne goodnes, have most times least of it. That I may be the lesse offensive in my words, I will here speake to [Page 13] M ^r. Paget in his owne: Pag. 61. Certainly it was a want of modesty and pru­dency in him, to make such disputes in his owne commendation. For hee hath vainely praysed himself, and wrounged us. 7. Pag. 10. Yea in stead of clearing himself, hee is more polluted. His owne tongue defileth him. And therefore his glorying is not good.

The fift thing wherein I am injurious (in his conceit) is to our whole Congregation, to blot the same with report of infamous conten­tion, faction, &c.

Answ. 1. As they that stirre up warre and strife, Iudg. 11.13. 1 King. 18.18. impute the cause unto others, which lyeth on themselves; so dealeth M ^r. Paget with me: For who hath bene the cause and authour to blot our Con­gregation with report of infamous contention, faction, &c. but hee chiefly: For had hee contained himself within his owne bounds, not plaid the Diotrephes; suffered the Church to have exercised her owne due power; not brought in mens devises amongst us, wee had not seene and felt the shame and misery which now wee doe. And that all may see, whatsoever infamy our Church lyeth under; that it is come principally by his meanes. I desire these things may be taken into consideration. 1: The abuses from time to time done to our El­ders, that which they jointly doe; if it fall not in his line, hee ter­meth it an unrighteous law, a bone of contention, a rocke of offence, In his Letter given into the Consi­story 11. Mar. 1632. injurious to the Magristrate, destroyers of the liberty of the Church, ringleaders to faction, &c. If they in opinion differ from him, then hee makes them parties: and so disableth them from judging in the case; yea professeth hee will not tollerate the thing. I doe let passe to speake of his taxing them for insufficiency of his procureing the Classes to censure them; Pag. 18.63. how hee rejects their advise and counceill: For of all these things wee shall have a fitter place hereafter. This onely by the way I say; how sleightly soever hee thinkes of Ruling Elders, notwithstanding they have a great place in the Church of Christ; such power and authority as (taking the consent of the Church with them) they may call the Pastour to give them an ac­count of his doing. Yea and to depose him from his ministery. If there be just cause, although Classes and Synods take his part. Let no man thinke that this is a new doctrine; for our chief Divines teach it. If any one Protestat. Kings supr. pag. 15. Offer. Con­fer. pag. 2. of the Ecclesiasticall Officers themselves shall sinne, hee is as subiect to the Censures of the rest, as any other mem­ber in the Congregation. If they shall all sinne scandalously, either [Page 14]in the execution of their office, Repl. to D. Downames defen. l. 2. part. 2 pag. 109. Discours of Troub. at Franck pag. 162. art. 65 or in any other ordinarie manner, then the Congregation, that chose them freely, hath as free power to depose them, and to place others in their roome. And no marvaill, if Prote­stants write thus: For the Papists ingeniously say as much: The Ferus in Act. Apost. cap. 11. Church may not onely exact an account of her Ministers, but depose them and reject them altogether, if they be not fitt. Hence then wee see, when a Congregation is injured by any of her Officers, she wants not power in her self immediately from Christ to redresse it; and therefore if she suffer continuall misery, it is her owne fault, and so deserveth the lesse pitty. But to proceed.

2. Hee hath made our Church to lie downe in her shame, by his invective writing, against many members thereof; matching them many times with the vilest enimies that ever God had, as Corah, Pag. 2.3. and the Rebels with him, the Apostates Israëlites, the mur­derers of Christ, the persecurors of the Saints; and other most noto­rious Hereticks and blasphemers. But himself unto meeke Moyses, to the good Prophets, yea to the Lord and Christ, and to Iohn Hus the Bohemian, that faithfull Martyr of Christ. Againe to say no­thing of the contemptible termes which hee useth. Prov. 8.8.; nor of his ag­gravations, in seeking to set Magistrates Pag. 29.30. and Ministers Pag. 73., and all at variance with us; truely his mocking 72.100.102.103.122.151. Arrow p. 52.65. 354. is intollerable: In this hee is farre from that gravity which should be in a Minister of God, spe­cially in a man of his yeares; sober dealing would better become him; for as Paul saith, such things are not seemely. But in truth I find this to be his constāt practise in all his writings: I would hee did once see it, and consider the dishonour which hee causeth unto the Church by it. The Preacher Eccles. 12.10. sought to find out acceptable words, and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

3. To come more particularly to his accusation; why doth hee terme, that which wee haue done, infamous contention, &c. so in pag. 4. a faction in the Church. I take it hee speaketh this, because wee have opposed his courses; if this be his meaning, then I answer: 1. Diotrephes might haue framed the like objection, when the bre­thren withstood him. 3. Ioh. and on as good ground too. 2. Wee know that the Saints are commaunded to contend Iude 3. Prov. 28.4. for the faith; and to hold fast every ordinance of the Lord. If subjects, freemen, scholers, &c. will not loose the previleidges of their Country, Ci­ties, Houses; much lesse should the sonnes of God, let goe any of [Page 15]their rights, which they have in Christ. 3. As for keeping peace, either with him or others, it must be done Iam. 3.17 Heb. 12.14 Rom. 15.5. with holynes, purity, and according to Iesus Christ. True it is, wee may accord with him; but how? If wee will make our selves the servants of men, and yeeld unto that, which our consciences perswade us, is most unlawfull. It is said of Nahash the Ammonite, that hee would not be at peace with the men of Iabesh Gilead, 1 Sam. 11.2 unlesse hee might thrust out all their right eyes. An unreasonable condition: Notwithstanding I shall make it appeare unto all men, in all places, wheresoever this Booke shall come, that M ^r. Pagets Termes, propounded for reconcilia­tion with us, are worse a great deale. For either wee must make our selves spiritually blind, in things necessary to salvation, and cast off some of Christs Ordinances and practise, in the place thereof humaine devises; otherwise for the present there is no hope to be at union with him.

But as it is in the Proverbe, a man may buy gould to deare; even so for my part, howsoever I desire from my heart to accord with him, neverthelesse my care must be so to have it, as that I may ac­cord with God, and have peace of conscience. Now to the next sup­posed injury.

The sixt is to the Classis, in defaming their gouvernment and pro­ceedings.

Answ. 1. If M ^r. Paget had the ability to proove his bould affir­mations, with inevitable reasons, as a speciall faculty, to disgrace men by untrue reports, hee would be a Disputer, one of a thou­sand. What have wee said about the Classis, that hee hath any where in his Booke refuted. Indeed much windy take hee useth in the thing; that the Classis is ancient; Pag. 71.72. other Churches stand in as much subjection to it as his: This order was in these Countries before his comming over. 18.66.25. The Synods have agreed that some things shall not be proceeded with, without the advise of the Classis. The Classicall Assembly did judge thus: and a great deale more hee writes just to this purpose. But the Reader shall find grapes on thornes, and figgs on thistles, assoone as one sound argument in his Booke, to justify that power and authority, which there is now exercised. Notwith­standing whosoever shall read understandingly his Booke, will say that hee hath not left this point unprooved, out of forgetfullnes; but rather of meere poverty, as not having any authenticall records of [Page 16]the holy Ghost, under the shadow whereof hee could find any shel­ter, to shrowd his Classicall function as a Divine Ordinance.

2. But to come neerer the matter; whatsoever wee have said of the Classis, wee stand strictly to it, and are well able to proove it. Two things wee have affirmed; 1. That wee beleeve, that gouvern­ment, which they exercise over such Congregations, unto which they stand not properly Ministers, is an undue power. 2. That wee have found very hard dealing at their hands. For the first, I shall re­ferre the Reader to Sect. 7.8. I ouching the later, if need be, I thinke our Elders They affirme that the resolution of the Classis deprived the Church of her due power. 12. Nov. 1631 Answ 2. to the Classis. will be witnesses for me. Howsoever sure I am, M ^r. Hookers case cleares it sufficiently; they having made an Act altogether against the liking of our Elders and Congregation, that hee should not be admitted to the Pulpit of the English Church, for any edification So are the words of their Act. thereof. There went hereupon 40 Brethren or more to the Consistory, and there shewed their great discontent against that which the Classis had done, and earnestly desired their assistance: Upon this two Elders two Deacons and two Brethren were sent unto the Classis, to entreat them to revoake and cancill the former Act, as being demaunded, and given out of all due order, yea before our Church had propounded him unto them, or desired their consent in the thinge. Further it was shewed, that no man without the consent of the most of the Consistory, hath power to aske the question, Not be­cause we ap­proved of their autho­rity; but be­cause wee knew it was in vaine to present him to them. whether hee be fitt to be our Minister or not: Besides wee told them, that wee had not bene with the Magistrates, and therefore as yet the matter belonged not to them; in a word it was promised, that unlesse M ^r. Hooker would acknowledge their authority Ier. 2.14., hee should not be presented to them at all: Many other perswasions by words, as a so by writing, were delivered in Dutch: Notwithstanding for all this, they would not revoake their sen­tence; but confirmed it a new. Is Israel a servant, is hee home borne? why is hee spoiled.

But to the point, this record (to use M ^r. Pagets Pag. 49. words in the like case) is an authentick witnes, not lyable to exception; for what I have here said, is recorded in the Acts of our Consistory Octob. 12. 1631. And that this was to hard a dealing with us, I proove it thus. 1. There ought to b [...] nothing (as Beza Epist 83. saith) imposed on a people against their wills. Now imagen that our owne Elde [...]ship should decree a thing, either to be done or not; yet could they not enjoyne us (by any [Page 17]Law of God) to obey them in it; further then wee our selves doe see the same to be lawfull, and so voluntarily assent unto it. And if it be so; then by what authority can Officers of other Congrega­tions, require us to stand to their acts; specially when wee neither like them, nor judge them good. It seemes Zwinglius was against such doings; Ad Valent. Compar. for hee saith, Whosoever with a Councill of Bishops, shall impose on Christian people any Law, or observation at their owne liking (hee meaneth without the peoples consent) hee inva­deth the Churches right by a violent commaund. Artic. 64. In another place: Such Elders as without the Churches consent, decree things at their owne pleasure, are in name Elders, but indeed Tyrants. Cyprian Cypria. l. 4 Ep. 21.34.46.26.32. & 14.31. in sundry places writes, that all matters ought to be determined by the Bishops, Elders, and the people present and consenting: Otherwise (sayth hee) matters are not firme and sure. For this very case Chem­nitius Exa. Conc. Trid part. 1 pag. 3. condemneth the Councill of Trent; viz. because they set downe their decrees (as it were) uncontroulably, and not under the examination of the Churches. D. Bilson Cont. Ap. p. 9 [...]. saith, that no Councill can bind a whole Church; except there be a generall consent. 2. Seeing the authority of particular Congregations, is (as M ^r. Parker Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 13. p. 130. saith and largely prooveth it) above all Synodes. I cannot see what rea­son a few men haue, to take upon them the subjecting of a whole Congregation to their decrees; yea and to Yet thus dealt the Clas­with our Eld. because they admitted Mr. Hooker to the Pulpit, contrary to their act. De Ro. Pont. pract pag. 2. Censure the Eldership, if they (though with the Churches liking) doe contrary to it. It was not the manner of Bishops (saith D. Whitaker) in the primitive times, to assume unto themselves jurisdiction and gouvernment over others. 3. If it be right See Park-Pol. Eccl. l. 3 c. 12. p. 88. that the common desire of a particular Congregation, in things lawfulll should take place, before one mans opposition to it, then I take it, the matter was not well caried, when M ^r. Paget prevailed against the Eldership and Church too. 4. This practise is contrary to the old rule, generally received among the learned. That Amb. lib. de dig. Sa­cerd. 3. which concerneth all, ought of all to be approoved. But some may say, how is this to be done? I answer in the words of D. Fulke Learned Discours of Eccles. disci. p. 86., That the Elders (sayth hee) may have their sentence to be the sentence of the Church, they must (when they have travailed in examining of cases) propound them to the whole multitude, that it may be confirmed by their consent. Observe here, how according to this mans opinion, the Classis should first have propounded the thing to our Congregation, and if wee jointly had approoved there­of, [Page 18]then might they have concluded, that it was a Church Act, otherwise not.

5. Howsoever the Classes have joyned with M ^r. Paget against us, and they together deprived us of M ^r. Hooker, and M ^r. Daven­port, notwithstanding hetherto wee have not seene them, to war­rant their proceedings by the Scriptures; and therefore in this respect wee also take it, that they have dealt too hardly with us: For who knoweth not, that in all questions of this nature, no other te­stimony or argument can strike the stroake to perswade the con­science, but the word of God; for as one Chrisost▪ in Psal. 95. ad finem. well saith: If any thing be spoken without Scripture, the mind of the heareth halteth; now stic­king at it, sometimes turning from it as frivolous, sometimes turning to it as probable: But when the testimony of the speaker commeth from Divine Scripture, it confirmeth both the speach of the speaker, and mind of the hearer. But as for the Classis, all that wee haue yet heard or seene from them, for the justification of their Acts against us, hath bene either the order This is the reason they give in their act against Mr. Hooker, why hee should not preach, it was against the order of the Churches in these Countries. of the Church, or custome, or tra­dition. Now what saith God by Ieremy Cha. 10.3, The customes of the people are vaine. Whatsoever savoreth against the truth, is Heresie, even old custome, said Tertullian De veland. Virg.. Custome, saith Cypr. Ep. 74. ad Pomp. another, without truth, is the mother of errour. And in another place In l. 2. Ep. 3. ad Cicil.: Wee must not follow the custome of men, but the truth of God. To the same purpose speakes Beza In Luc. 23.27., and others. As for orders, wee are so farre to be ordered by them, as they accord with the order of the Gospell. Touching Traditions, wee know well enought, what they say against them, when they deale with the Papists.

Besides doth not M ^r. Page. tell us (and that Pag. 37. truely) that many worthy Divines are sometimes mistaken. Why then may not they be mistaken in our differences? In truth wee have the more reason so to thinke, considering they bring us no proofe for their doings herein, saving bare authoritie.

And here by the way I thinke good, to observe a little of M ^r. Pagets talke in pag. 25. having set downe a great part of the Acts and sentences, which the Classicall Assembly made against M ^r. Hooker: also what the Deputies of the Synod did in like man­ner judge of the thing: Hee immediately begins to hold up his head, and to looke so big upon us, as if there were no remedie, but wee must needs runne away, and veeld him the cause. Had these [Page 19]complaynants (saith hee) bene wise and considerate persons, they would rather have sought to bury the memorie of these things, then by their importunate complaints compell me, in my owne defence, to write these things, which otherwise I should not have done. But (good Sir) wherein lyeth the weight of this terrible matter? what, is it because they say M ^r. Paget hath proceeded in every respect of this busnes, with a good conscience? If so, then I answer: Howsoever they thought it, yet absolutely so to conclude, was beyond their calling; my reason is, because it belongeth onely unto God Ier. 17.10 2. Sa. 17.7., to judge in­fallibly of mens consciences. Againe, or doth the waight of it, con­sist in this, viz. because they say hee was unfit to be admitted to the Ministerie, &c. If so, then in Augustins In his 48 Epistle to Vincent. words, I say, insteed of all these learned Fathers, or rather above them all, Paul the Apostle commeth to my mind, to him I runne, to him I appeale, from all Writers that thinke otherwise. And that the opinions held by Mr. Hooker (howbeit condemned by the Classicall Assembly and Deputies of the Synods) are justifiable by the word of God, it shall be manifested hereafter. In the meane time I will here give the Reader a full sight of all this great matter, wherewith hee thinkes to affright us; and thus it may be laid downe. Such persons whom the Classicall Assembly and the Deputies of the Synod, shall judge unfit to be admitted to the Ministery of the English Church at Amsterdam, they may not be admitted: But so they judged M ^r. Hooker; Therefore, &c. To answer this argument; I reason thus. If as many and more, and every way as learned, wise, judicious, godly, &c. as the Classicall Assembly, and the Deputies of the Sy­nod, doe judge M ^r. Hooker fit, to be admitted to the English Church at Amsterdam; then hee may lawfully be admitted: But the first is true; Therefore the second. Had M ^r. Paget bene wise & considerate, hee would rather have sought to bury the memorie of these things, then by his unnecessarie mentioning of them, to compell me in my owne defence to write these things, which otherwise I should not have done.

But let it be granted for reasoning sake, that the truth is on their side, notwithstanding I cannot see, how they can lawfully require us to demit our selves to their Acts and sentences, till they doe lay downe, as their decrees, so the word of God, for the confirmation of them; specially in points knowne unto them to be much doub­ted [Page 20]of and questioned, both by our Elders and many more. Wee are men that doe professe Religion, and desire to doe Gods whole will, and therefore cannot chuse but grieve and complaine, when those, which take upon them to be our Guides and Teachers, will injoyne us to leave this thing, or doe that; and yet bring us nothing from the Scriptures to perswade our consciences to it. D. Whitaker sayth Cont. 4. & 8. p. 883. Ecclesiasticall Officers, if they will take heed to their flock, as they ought, must doe things, not by force, but by arguments and per­swasions. And there is good reason for it; for wee well know, that the word of God containeth all things needfull to be done, or not done; as may be seene in the places Iosh. 18. Deut. 5.32. Act. 20.30 2 Tim. 3.15.16. Ioh. 4.25. & 5.39. & 15.17. & 16.13. Rom 15.4. Act. 26.22 23. Mar. 12.24 here quoted. And to this doe all our best Divines subscribe old and new; as Athanasius Cont. Gent., Isychius In Levit. c. 16. l. 5., Hillarie Lib. 6. de Trin., Epiphanius Lib. 3. Her. 75., Augustine Epist. 198. ad Fortun., Chrisostome In Mat. Hom. 19., Cyrill l. 12. c. 68 in Ioh. 16., Lyra In Prov. c. 31., Bruno In Gal. c. 1, Bruno In 1 Epist. Pet. c. 5., Pareus In Rom. 11.26., Alstedius Praecog. Theol. l. 2. p 127., Musculus In Mat. 11.3. p. 103, Mollerus In Ps. 19.8. Ps. 130. and others. To end now the point, as Iotham said to the men of Schechem, so will I say to the Classis; if ye have dealt truely and sincerely with our Elders and Church, then rejoyce yee in Mr. Paget, and let him rejoyce in you.

The 7 injury is to the Magistrate, in publishing an unjust com­plaint against that which was done by them.

Answ. Salomon Pr. 12.18 Ch 26.22. Ps. 140.4. Prov. 27.4. saith, There is that speaketh like the peircing of a sword. And the words of a tale bearer, goe downe into the ut­most part of the belly. How well all this agreeth with Mr. Paget, may be seene in this particular, to wit, in seeking to provoake the Magistrates against us. Truely his dealing this way is most cruell; for in pag. 29.30. hee perverteth our words, and seekes to make such conclusions from them, as tend to our undoing many wayes; as if wee should count the Magistrates Tyrants, Church-robbers, Sacriledgious persons, &c. accusations of such nature, as indeed the thinking of them, makes me tremble. Deliver me, O Lord, from the violent man, who hath purposed to overthrow my going. But who can stand before envy.

Now for answer to it: 1. So long as I have bene in these Coun­tries, my care hath bene to walke dutifully toward the Higher Powers; not willing at any time, to thinke of them, looke on them, speake of them, or to them; but with much reverence. For sure I am, their authority is from God; and therefore I have, and still doe, [Page 21]make conscience to obey their Lawes, pay them tribute, pray for them, and give God thankes for them, Eccl. 10.20 Rom. 13.2. Tit. 3.1. Mat. 22.21 1 Ti 2.1.2 Psal. 20.1. as knowing it to be a singular mercy of God towards us, that wee doe enjoy them.

2. I am so farre from having the thoughts which hee suggesteth, as I doe beleeve (God knowes I lye not) that there is not a people on earth, this day, better gouverned then wee are; here are whole­some Lawes established, good men cherished, evill-doers punished, and the poore comfortably provided for; by which meanes wee lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlynes and honesty.

3. I marvaill by what rule Mr. Paget went, when hee made this threshing instrument of yron out of our writing. Amos 1.3. I suppose his Booke learning, will never beare him out in it; but rather it will be generally thought (of the godly wise) that hee followed the coun­cill of some reasonles passion, then any commendable plat-forme of art and science. But I pray (Sir) are you in good earnest, that a man cannot abuse his interest in the Magistrates, as wee said and meant, but it must follow necessarily, that they are Tyrants, Church-robbers, &c. this you say: But I deny that any such thing can be rightly gathered from the place. For 1. wee never thought, nor can thinke, that the Magistrates deprive us of that liberty and power, which Christ hath given to his Church; because wee know that they doe not take upon them to elect and ordaine Ministers, but give approbation unto such as by the Elders and people shall be chosen. 2. Our words have nothing in them, tending that way, whereto you stretch them; wee say (and this is the most) that the Magistrates will have us to take one that can speake Dutch, and one in this Countrie: Now may not they require so much, and wee doe it; and yet wee keepe still our power. If M ^r. Paget had but read our words charitably, hee should haue seene that which hee in­ferreth from them, to be directly in them contradicted: For marke, all Readers that haue sence, wee say the Magistrates will have us to take one, &c. doth it not then follow, that wee confesse they per­mit us to use the libertie and power which Christ hath given us, yea encourage us to it: yet so, as wee chuse a man to their liking. For conclusion then. I shall exspect in his next Booke, that hee either blot out this slaunder, or make acknowledgement of his fault here­in, and to induce him the more unto it: I wish him to read the Wise-mans saying: Devise not evill against thy Neighbour, Prov. 3.29. seeing [Page 22]hee dwelleth securelie by thee.

Lastly let it be noted, how unprofitable hee is unto the peace of this Citie, in that hee seeketh by untrue reports, to set debate be­twene the Rulers and people. The Scripture saith, In the multitude of people is the Kings honour. As it is a fathers glory to haue a large posterity; a shepheards prayse a great flock: so it is a Gouvernours dignity and credit, to exercise authority over many faithfull sub­jects. But certain it is, M ^r. Paget hath bene an occasion, not onely to drive some families hence, but also a principall hinderer of many (and those very rich in the world) from coming hither: the which thing tendeth unto the great hurt, both of Church and Common-wealth; and what I here speake, I can make it good by many faith­full and honest witnesses.

The 8 injury is to all the Reformed Churches, in publishing com­plaints against such lawfull authoritie, as is exercised by them.

Answ. 1. VVhen M. Paget by the Scriptures hath prooved the matters in controversy betweene us lawfull; viz. the power of the Classis, and his riffrafe Baptisme; then I will (by Gods grace) acknowledge my fault herein; till then, I shall alwayes professe, that hee hath borne false witnesse against his neighbour: A thing in his writings too common with him.

2. Observe here, how M ^r. Paget professeth plain Brownisme, and condemneth the Church of England, and that hee doth so; I proove it thus: All Reformed Churches use a Classicall gouvernment; (so saith hee) But the English Church useth no such: Therefore it is no Reformed Church, and so consequentlie false. VVhat Apologie hee can make, to vindicate his reputation, I yet know not; but it may be wee shall see something of it in his next booke.

The 9 injury that hee taxeth me with, is to all that seeke Refor­mation, and desire the same Discipline, that is practised in these Churches: this their Booke being a stumbling block in the way.

Answ. 1. I suppose by the seekers here after his Discipline, hee meaneth the English, non-conformists. Now in this hee abuseth them, and his Readers too; for howsoever they would willingly shake off the Prelates yoke, notwithstanding it is not to come un­der [Page 23]his Classicall authoritie, but rather to erect that single uncom­pounded Policie (which hee seemes to gibe at) whereby particular Congregations are made to be independent: Not standing un­der any other Ecclesiasticall authority out of themselves. And that this is so, I can proove it by many testimonies. In a certain booke set out, under the name of all the unconformable Ministers in the Realme, they write thus: Wee confine Protestat. King. su­prem. pag. 12.13. and bind all Ecclesiasticall power, within the limits onely of one particular Congregation; Hol­ding that the greatest Ecclesiasticall power ought not to streitch beyond the same, and that it is an arrogating of Princelie supremacie Marke this., for any Ecclesiasticall person, or persons, to take upon themselves Eccle­siasticall jurisdiction over many Churches. And a little after: Wee hold that those Ecclesiasticall persons, that make claime to greater power and authoritie then this, especiallie that make claime Iure Di­vino This M ^r. Paget doth. of power, and Iurisdiction to meddle with other Churches then that one Congregation, of which they are, or ought to be mem­bers, doe usurpe upon the supremacie of the civill Magistrate, &c. The Refuter of D. Downames Sermon, handleth this point large­ly, and prooveth from the Scriptures, and best writers, that every particular Congregation, Repl 1. l. 3. p. 185. l. 1. part. 2. p. 22 23.68. ought to haue absolute gouvernment in it self; and that no Officer (by vertue of his office) may meddle with the affaires and matters of any Church, except his owne.

To these wee will add D. Fulke, a man famous and of rare learning, in his Learned Discours of Ecclestasticall Gouvernment, hee saith, There ought to be in every Church an Elde ship, Pag. 84. which ought to have the hearing, examination and determining of all Note this. matters, pertayning to the Discipline and Gouvernment of that Con­gregation. I could name many more, but it needs not; specially because I shall have occasion to speake againe of the thing in ano­ther place. Yet this may not be forgotten. VVhereas there are many hundreds of our Country-men in New-England, they have not erected there any Classicall Gouvernment, but every particular Church exerciseth her owne, I say, within her self wholy; which is a sure argument to proove, that the foreward professours in Eng­land approove not of this kind of gouvernment here pleaded for; although hee would feigne haue his Reader to thinke so.

2. Whereas hee saith that our Booke is a stumbling block, laid in the way of Reformation. I suppose it will appeare so farre other­wise, as that hee himself will be found chiefly in fault this way. And therefore I wish him, to be well advised, what hee writes hereafter, least the reasons, which hee layeth downe for his gouverning of many Churches, be applyed by the Popes men unto the Hierarchy, and to as good purpose too. And truely I cannot see, but this may well be so, considering that both their Disciplines tend unto the taking away of the Churches Right, the difference is; In the Hie­rarchy one doth it: In the Classes more; notwithstanding in this they joyne together; viz. in depriving Churches of their due and law­full power.

Tenthly hee saith I am injurious to all that are grieved for the offence arising by this fact, hee being the cause of their grief.

Answ. 1. If any grieve to see errour discovered, the truth clea­red, good men justifyed, unjust doers reprooved; it is their fault and sinne: But the writings published by me, serve for this end and use. 2. If any haue given occasion unto others of sorrow, it is prin­cipally himself, in that he hath, by unlawfull meanes, keept from us the profitable preaching of the mord, whereby wee should have bene much furthered in the way to life and glory. If a father should withhold from his children seasonable and holesome food; were it not a sufficient cause of weeping and mourning? For our parts, wee cannot judge otherwise of his caraige towards us; howsoever hee blesseth himself in it.

The 11 and last injury is to all that take pleasure in these offen­ces, hee being a meanes to harden them in sinne.

Answ. This is onely a begging againe of the question, and therefore it is answered before: For conclusion then, here I may in his owne words say; Pag. 32. Such reproaches are quicklie broched, but the guilt of them is not so quicklie and easilie taken away. Besides these, I find many other untruths and reproaches laid upon me in his Booke, unto all which I shall give answer in time. But as for the writer of them, I will say no more, but that which the Reader shall find by experience. Pro. 25.28. That as abattered city without walles, so is hee that cannot rule his affections; for his eger desire to fasten upon us, hee cared not what, hath left his writings naked, without all reaso­nable and honest defence.

SECTION IV.

IN this Section my purpose is, to examen M ^r. Pagets answers, unto certaine Scriptures, alleaged by us and M ^r. Davenport, in our writings. First to proove that Christ hath given full power un­to every particular Congregation to chuse freelie their owne Mini­sters, wee mentioned Act. 6.3. and 14.23.

M ^r. Paget to refute us; deviseth 8 Answers, Pag. 18.19.20.21.22. amongst which there is not one, that answereth to the thing at all, nor serves his turne in the least for which hee bringeth it. It is not necessary that I should here write downe all his words; I will therefore onely take the substance of them, which is thus: 1. Wee accuse other Ministers besides himself. 2. The order against which wee complaine, hath bene formerlie observed in our Church. 3. Wee are partiall, because wee disliked not the thing sooner. 4. Hee tells us what order the Sy­nods have devised about the calling of Ministers. 5. Wee are taught (a thing never doubted of) that the Elders ought to goe before the people in all the publick actions of the Church. 6. If this be not so great absurditie will follow. 7. If wee were apart well examined, hee assures himself that few of us would be found to agree with one ano­ther, touching the due order of elections. 8. It is an heinous crime no lesse then sacriledge, to deprive the Church of her lawfull power. But is this to answer, or rather in truth to play the Trifler. For what are these 8 Replies, but so many shifts and windings, even mise­rable starting holes, and scope doores, for him to fly out at; doth hee not here turne his backe upon the case, as not willing to stand to it.

I wish hee would once againe read our Scriptures, and his answer to them, and to perswade him hereto; I will presume (though I looke to be requited with shrewd words for my labour) to propose it to his view in this manner. If the complaint made by William Best, and the Subscribers with him, be against Mr. Paget & others: If the order against which they complaine be ancient: If they haue done ill in not blaming the thing till now: If the Synods haue pre­scribed and order of calling Ministers: If the Elders ought to goe before the Church in all publike actions: If hurt will follow other­wise: If the Complaynants cannot agree among themselves, touch­ing [Page 26]the due order of elections: In short, if it be a great sinne to de­prive the Church of her due power: Then doe not these Scrip­tures Act. 6.3. and 14.23. proove, that Christ hath given full power to his Church, to chuse freely their owne Ministers: But the first is true: Therefore the second.

M ^r. Paget needs not to take it amisse, that I have syllogistically framed this argument for him: For beleeve it, unlesse it goe this way; a man may say of his reasoning here, as of them in the Pro­verbe, Hee asked for hookes, and they say they have no mattocks. Notwithstanding I doe not impute this, to his insufficiency; but to the badnes of his case. Hee perceiving (in likelyhood) that these Scriptures made for us, and against him; thought of a course how to put them by, and save his owne credit too, and that was by hol­ding his Reader in a long talke. For will not many thinke, when they shall read 7 or 8 scoore lines writen to confute 3 or 4. But the thing is soundly done.

2. For the matter in pag. 20. I would willingly know, why he hath writen a whole side to proove that the Gouvernours of the Church ought to goe before, &c. hath this thing ever bene in question? Knoweth hee not, that our difference is not about our owne Elder­ship: But whither Officers of other Churches, have ought to doe (as by power) with the administrations of our Congregation. This indeed wee deny, but nothing els. Why therefore doth hee spend time, in unncecessary talke? If his heart be upright, and hee thinke his case good, let him speake out plainely and directly in it. VVee affirme, that the election and ordination of all Ecclesiasticall Officers, ought necessarily to be made by the free chose of the Congregation, wherein they are to administer: and none else have a calling to meddle therewith. For this wee bring the word of God, Act. 6.3. and 14.23. Not wrested to serve our Turne, but understood in that sence, which the learned expound it, as Cartwright Refut. Rbem. on. Act. 14.23., Bates Pag. 66., Ʋdal Demonst. discip. pag. 24.25., Danaeus In 1 Tim. c. 5. p. 350., Fenner Sacr. Theol. l. 7. c. 10. pag. 106., Polanus Syntag. l. 7. c. 16. p. 543, Piscator In Act. 6. Observ. 2., Beza Annot. in Act. 14.23., the Authors of the admonition to the Parliament Lib. 1. p. 3, Church gouvern­ment Pag. 40., Necessity of Discipline Pag. 28., Defence of Ecclesiasticall Disci­pline Pag. 40., and many others.

But M ^r. Pagets profession and practise is otherwise: Hee sayth Preface., that particular Congregations are not independent: but stand under other Ecclesiasticall authority out of themselves. And to have [Page 27]his Reader to be of the same mind with him; hee tels him in pag. 19. and 66. that the Synods in these Countries have agreed to have it so. If hee had told us and prooved it, that Christ or his Apostles had so commaunded, wee would haue embraced it forthwith; but not the sooner, because men have done it. Our reasons are these; 1. It doth not belong unto Synods (as the Learned Beza de Eccles c. 5. p. 125. Piscat. Thes. Theolog. loc. 23. p. 372. Iusti. Mart. n Dial. cum i Tripho. affirme) to make new Articles of Religion, nor to bring any thing into Gods house, which hee hath not commaunded in his word. Ministers (sayth one D. Whita. cont. 4. quoe. 7. p. 884. Deu. 16.21 Col. 2.23. Exo. 20.24.) are stewards, whose duety is not to prescribe new Lawes unto the familie, but faithfully to keepe the Lawes of the householder, and to doe every thing according to his commaundement. 2. All such inventions of men, as are devised for any service of God, are ab­horred by the Lord: Hee likes nothing but what hee appointeth himself. 3. God promiseth his presence onely in his owne ordi­nances; and therefore wee cannot exspect that hee will either ac­cept, or blesse See M ^r. Dod upon 2 Comm. Elton on Colos. p. 308 Per. idol. last times p. 674. &c. that thing, which is not done accordingto his re­vealed will. 4. Herein wee obey the Lord Esa. 8.20. 1 The. 5.21. 1 Ioh. 3.1. Act. 17.11, and walke in the stepts of the faithfull. 5. In this wee take no more liberty, then others have formerly done. Luther in the Preface of the Assertion of the Articles, condemned by the Bull of Leo X. Hee sayth: I call them to record of this my protestation, that I will be urged to yeeld by no mans authority; though hee be never so holy a Father, but as farre as hee shall be approoved by the judgement of the divine Scriptures. And here I will conclude this point in the words of Augustine: Wee weigh not the writings of all men, be they never so worthie, as wee weigh the Canonicall Scriptures: but that, Ad Fortun. Epist. 111. saving the reverence that is due unto them, we may mislike and refuse somewhat in their writ­ings, if wee find that they have taught otherwise then the Scriptures will beare.

Let it here be observed, that Mr. Paget pleadeth for his Discipline, as the Papists doe for theirs: They say Sculting. Hier. Anar. 1. pag. 15.19.25., Church gouvernment is not to be taken onely from the Scriptures, but from the wholesome precepts of the Fathers, and institutions of old Canons.

I suppose hee dares not affirme, that unto the lawfull calling of a Minister, God requireth every particular Church, to seeke the allowance of the Classis; and that they shall not proceed in the thing without their advise. Notwithstanding hee doth what hee can, to subject us unto this humaine ordinance, and will not suffer us [Page 28]otherwise to goe on, and therefore (as I said) hee and they have ta­ken up one devise, to bring all Churches (if they could) into mise­rable bondage. But let him remember the words of Salomon Prov. 22.28., Remoove not the ancient limit, which thy fathers have set. This is a great sinne in all places Iob 24.2., but greatest in the Churches of the Saints.

M ^r. Davenport judgeing it wholy unlawfull, to baptise any in­fant, whose Parents one at least are no members of any parti­cular Congregation; alleadged for it certaine Scriptures, Pag. 133, 134. &c. unto which M ^r. Paget hath answered: But whether effectually, wee are now to inquire.

The first is Act. 20.28. Take heed therefore unto your selves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you over­seers, &c.

To this M ^r. Paget (as before) makes 8 Replyes; most of which, I take them to be so impertinent, as not capable indeed of any answer. Leaving the first to M r. Davenport, because it concerneth his owne person; wee come to the second, where hee writeth thus: Suppose Paul in the place alledged, had required no more of the Pa­stours of Ephesus, yet might a further duetie have bene laid upon them in some other place of Scripture. It is no good kind of disputing, to argue thus, No more is required of Ministers in such and such a place, therefore in no other place at all.

Answ. 1. Be it here noted, that these words tend unto the up­holding of the vilest errours that can be: For from the ground which hee hath here laid downe, what Divine truth is there, but may be coulorably gaine-said and resisted. For example, If a man to proove that there are three persons in the Godhead, no more; should alledge for it 1. Ioh. 5.7. There are three that beare record in Heaven, &c. Might not a Heathen take up his words, and say: O Sir, it is no good kind of disputing, to argue thus, No more are mentioned in such, and such a place, therefore in no other place at all. I marvaill how M ^r. Paget would be able to stoppe such an adver­saries mouth. In his next writing I shall exspect to see some thing about it. In the meane time I doe advertise him to beware of these rash and inconsiderate sayings: Hee cannot be ignorant, what a most daungerous worke hee hath set forth once already. Seeking [Page 29]by it (as one M ^r. Ains. Advertism. to the Read. at the end of the 5. Bookes of Moyses, published in England by authority against him. truely chargeth him) to strike at the very text, and to weaken our common faith. For which thing hee lyeth to this day, under the just Censure, and sharpe reproofe of many Godly and Learned men. It would be good therefore for him, in Iobs Cha. 40.5. & 42.6. words to say, Once have I spoken, but I will not answer, yea twise, but I will proceed no further: Wherefore I abhorre my self, and repent in dust and ashes.

2. Whereas hee answereth with If, or might be: this sheweth that (being not able to avoyd the force of the Scripture, yet un­willing to ascent unto it) hee loves to be contentious, and to seeke a knot in a rish: If there be any place of Scripture, to his know­ledge, that doth require the Pastours of Ephesus, to baptise such infants whose Parents are without: it had bene his duety to have named it. But if hee know no such thing, (as I am sure hee doth not) then let him know, that his reasoning is fruitlesse and deceit­full too. If a man will be perverse, it is no mastery to have a di­stinction, and to say some thing, though without brane or sence. But what sayth Vives Lib. 1. de Caus. art. corrupt. They are base wits, that are so affected: For ingenious minds and natures well given, will rather seeke how true that is, which they hold, then how they may defend it, making grea­ter price of verity then victory.

3. To answer the thing more fully; the ordinary examples of the Godly in Scripture, are set downe for our imitation; yea and wee are exhorted to follow the same: Phil. 4.8.9.10. 2 Ti. 3.10. 1 Cor. 4.17 & 10.11. Heb. 13.15 Iam. 5.17. Luk. 4.25.26.27. These things (sayth Paul) which yee have heard and seene in me, doe. Hence it is, that the Apostle, having spoken of the vertues of many true beleevers, Heb. 11. likeneth them in chap. 12.1. unto the Cloud, which the Israe­lites had in the desert, by which they were guided unto the Land of Canaan.

And in particular, the intent of the holy Ghost, in causing the Acts of the Apostles to be recorded; was that the same should be as a Cloud, to direct us in the way to heaven. Now then to apply Act. 20.28. to the matter in hand; whereas Paul appointeth the Ephesian Elders, unto the care and charge onely of their owne particular Congregation, and no further; it followeth necessarily, (this being writen for our imitation) that every Minister under the Gospell, is to containe himself altogether, within the bounds and circuit of his owne Church; and not to exercise any act of his mini­sterie [Page 30]otherwhere: For to doe it, is meerely intrusion, and a taking of to much upon him. 1. Cor. 7.24. Therefore Let every man wherein hee is cal­led, therein abide with God. Els others will be injured, good order broken, scandalls raysed, and the doer severely punished, for his irre­gular walking.

Observe againe, how M ^r. Paget makes use of the Papists argu­ment; for thus writeth Scultingius: The Calvinists (sayth hee) ob­ject that the authority of Bishops and Archbishops, is not from the Apostles, Hierarch. l. 10. p. 79. because Act. 15. the controversie there was not confirmed by them, but by the whole Church. Now marke how prittily hee answereth to it: This will not follow, for the authority of Bishops & Archbishops might be exercised at other times, in the Apostles dayes, although then it were not. Thus hee drawes out Antichrist sword against us, onely hee puts a new scabbard upon it.

His third answer is, that Pastours and Teachers are bound to exer­cise some acts of their ministery, towards those who are no members of their Church. And why so? Because they ought to invite and call others, even those that are without, Prov. 9.3.4.5. Mat. 28.19.20.

Answ. 1. I would willingly know of him, whither his office be so with him, and alwayes about him, that hee cannot performe some good actions, but they must needs be actions of his Ministe­ry. I and others, are otherwise minded; our reason is, because wee are told, that as a man and wife, a father and child; so a Pastour and a Flock, are relatives. Now in my understanding, as I am a father, I exercise no proper acts of a father, but towards my owne chil­dren; what good soever I doe to others, it cannot properly be said to be the act of a father, but rather of a freind, a neighbour, a Chri­stian, &c. Now let him make further application of it.

2. For his two Scriptures; 1. Mat. 28.19.20. is very unskil­fully quoted; for howsoever the Apostles exercised some Acts of their ministery towards men without; yet this prooves not, that or­dinary Ministers may doe so too; but onely a thing so conceited of him. The other place is answered before.

4. Hee saith, that a Pastour may administer the Sacraments, both of Baptisme and the Lords Supper, in neighbour Churches; and this [Page 31](hee sayth) hee hath prooved against M ^r. Ainsworth in Arr. pag. 17.18. and againe from pag. 109. to 114.

Answ. 1. As Parents love their owne children, because they be­gat them, how ill-favored and black soever they are. So Mr. Pa­get in this place, applaudeth his old writings, because they are the inventions of his owne head. I have 3 or 4 times read the places over; and I doe assure thee (Reader) I find not any thing there prooved, of which hee here so vainely boasteth. For either hee takes that granted, which hee is not able to proove; to wit, that the Elders, Deacons and widowes of one Church, may administer in another, by vertue of office; or els, like the unwise mans building, his whole discours is without foundation. Hee tels us, that the El­dership of the separated companie of Leiden did help M ^r. Ainsworth in his Controversie with M ^r. Iohnson. VVhat then? must it follow that they exercised some acts of their Ministery in another Congrega­tion? For sooth so hee concludeth; but how truely, I will here manifest in this argument. If the Magistrates of Amsterdam per­forme sometime a worke of mercy to the people at Harlem; then they exercise there some acts of their Magistracy; but the first is true: Therefore the second. If M ^r. Paget will compare his man­ner of reasoning with this; hee shall see, that blood is not more like to blood, then these two one the other.

But I gesse what causeth him to erre herein; Hee thinketh that Officers of a Church, cannot be helpfull in some causes unto other people, but they exercise acts of their Ministery: But the thing is not so; for whatsoever they doe in such cases, they doe it not as Of­ficers, but as Christians, neither can they now doe more, (though Ministers in other Churches) then any other Brother may doe, being indued with the like gifts.

One thing here I cannot let passe, and that is touching his un­sound reasoning in pag. 110. Hee tels M ^r. Ainsworth that his si­militude from a Husband, is against himself. The reason hee gives for it, is, because a Husband, notwithstanding his relation and bond unto his owne wife, may yet become a protectour, and guide of the poore widow, that wants a Husband, to performe these dueties. If M ^r. Paget will stand to justify the true proportion of his argu­ment, as it must necessarily hold, or els it is mere vanity: I will hence proove from his writing, that adultery is lawfull; for thus I [Page 32]reason: That which is the peculiar duety of husbands, to be perfor­med towards their wives, is to give them due benevolence: But husbands notwithstanding the relation and bonds unto their owne wives, may performe the peculiar dueties of husbands to poore widowes: Therefore husbands, notwithstanding the relation and bond unto their owne wives, may have the use of the bodies of poore widowes. If hee doe not grant this, hee reasoneth without reason. For I hope hee will not deny, but a man that is no hus­band, may performe many kind offices to poore widowes; yea I thinke hee will confesse, that a man unmaried, may doe as many good turnes to poore widowes, as any husband: If so, then of a cer­tainty, either hee must maintaine whoordome, as I sayd before; or confesse that which hee writes here, is most impertinent; and that the comparison holds no further but thus; viz. that any man out of office, may in other Congregations performe as much due­ty; as those which are not Ministers there.

I hope his sinne here was of ignorance, rather then of wilfullnes, and that hee had a devotion to serve God a right, though hee tooke not (in this) the right way, wherein hee will be served. And thus much is sufficient to confute whatsoever hee hath there said: Let us therefore proceed to the next.

For his 5 answer, I can better understand his meaning, then make either sence, or good English of it. To proove that a Pa­stour is bound to exercise his Ministery, in some acts thereof, to­wards those, who are no members of his Church; hee brings the example of Classes and Synods, where many Ministers doe meet together, for the administration of Discipline in them, and to de­termine and decide by a joint authority, the cases and controversies of sundry Congregations; and this hee sayth is to be seene in Act. 15.1.2.

Answ. Who seeth not that this plea, is none other, then a meere begging of the question; hee bringeth in the Classes and Synods for his proofe, whereas hee should first have prooved, that the power, which they assume over many Churches, is lawfull. Before I come to lay downe my particular answers to it, I shall entreat him in his next Booke, to resolve me these few Questions. 1. VVhither the Assembly, mentioned in Act. 15. were a Synod or Classis. 2. How it can be manifested from that place, that both are divine institu­tions, [Page 33]as here is affirmed. 3. How hee can naturally from thence rayse this doctrine; viz. excommunications and elections of Mini­sters, are actions belonging unto Classes and Synods. 4. VVhither it be Iure Divino, that Ecclesiasticall Officers of many Churches, are necessarily bound, to determine by joint authority, the cases of many particular Congregations; or whither it be a thing arbitrary and left unto every mans liberty. 5. Whither all such cases and con­troversies, as are decided by many Ministers, combined into Classes and Synods; must so stand, as that particular Congregations may not (if they thinke fit) reject the same, and practise otherwise, then hath bene there determined by joint authority.

I haue the more hope, that Mr. Paget will give a direct answer to these questions: Pag. 39. Seeing a good conscience (hee sayth) suffers not a man to be neutrall, nor to suspend his judgement, when it is de­sireously desired; but forceth him to beare witnesse unto the truth, &c.

To the point now: I doe deny that this place Act. 15. prooveth any such thing, for which it is alledged. For 1. here was no com­bination of many Ministers of divers Churches; but onely a few messengers sent from Antiochia unto the Congregation at Ierusa­lem, about a controversy there specifyed. Hence it is affirmed, by many learned men D. Bridg. pag. 1224., that as, this was an assembly of one onely parti­cular Church; so it binds D. Whita. De conc. Q 2 p. 6. and p. 67. onely but in a speciall, or particular mee­ting.

2. As M ^r. Cartwright Refut. Rhemist. on the place. saith, Paul and Barnabas went not up to Ierusalem, to submit their judgement to the judgement of the Apostles; for that had diminished the authoritie of their doctrine, then which there was no greater in the Word: they being both in­fallablie directed by the Holy Ghost. Onely they went up, to conferre with them, and for countenance of the truth, in respect of men, and for the stopping of the mouthes of such deceivers, as pretended they were sent Vers. 24. by the Apostles. In a word that no suspition might re­maine in the minds of the people, as if Paul in doctrine differed from the rest.

3. If Ierusalem lay north-ward 200 miles from Antioch, as I read Itiner. Novi Testo fol. 96. it did: Surely then, hee hath small reason to bring this Scrip­ture, as the ground and foundation of the Classicall Assembly; yea and to tell us Pag. 88., that it is a remarkable place of Scripture, to warrant [Page 34]the exercise of that power, which wee deny. And a little after, This one allegation is sufficient to evince the falshood of their assertion. But before you make such hasty conclusions; haue a little patience to heare us, to speake for our selves. I pray how can you proove that the officers of these two Churches, being two hundred miles asunder, were combined, and mett ordinarily together (as the Classes doe) to determine the cases of many Churches. Or how doe you proove that there was any Officer at all of Antioch, in Ie­rusalem at this time? Briefly, or how doe you proove, that the Brethren sent from Antioch, exercised authority in the Church at Ierusalem; yet all this you must make good, otherwise you are guilty of abusing and perverting the Scripture, in affirming that the power, which the Classis exerciseth, was practised at Antioch and Ierusalem, and by Apostolicall direction. This you have spoken: but it is untrue. Notwithstanding had you rested in Stev. Ofw. testimony, your fault had bene small, in comparison what it is now, through your great presumtion; to take God for your wit­nes, Ier. 23.31. in a thing which hee never spake. Behold saith the Lord, I am against the Prophets that use their tongues, and say: Hee saith it.

4. It is certaine, Vers. 12.22 De Conc. Q 8. c. 3. & Qu. 3. c. 3. p. 96.97. that at Ierusalem not onely the Apostles and Elders mett together; but as Luke expresseth it, the Church also; being interested in the thing: And therefore gave sentence with the rest, to the decree then made. Observe what D. Whitaker re­plyes unto Bellarmine, denying the multitude to be called: It was alwayes (sayth hee) the practise of the Apostles in common cases, to call the whole Church together: and no doubt but they did so here. Now there was no need to have it mentioned, seeing it had bene their constant custome formerlie so to doe. Mr. Parker Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 12. pag. 108.126.334. affirmes the same: So the Authours of the Cent. Cent. 1. l. 2 c. 9. p. 547.548..And it seemes in Cy­prians Lib. 4. Epist. 16. time, the Church was not deprived of her right herein; howsoever the Papists Bellarm. de Conc & Ecc. l. 1. c. 16. pag. 39. in those dayes teach otherwise, and M ^r. Paget and others, doe otherwise practise.

5. Howsoever the Church at Antioch, sent some Brethren, with Paul and Barnabas, unto the Church at Ierusalem: notwithstanding (and let it be well observed) they did not this as being a dependent body, and standing under another Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves. For as M ^r. Parker Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 20. p. 301. & 314. excellently prooves it, the Church [Page 35]at Antioch at this time, had absolute power in, & for her self, to haue ended the controversy; and might haue done it: I say, in respect of authority, without acquainting therewith any other Congregation at all. To the same purpose another sayth D. Whita. Conc. Qu. 1. c. 1., The Church of Antioch sent not to Ierusalem, as being bound in duety thereto: But in regard it was the chief place of Religion, therefore they made choose freelie of that Congregation, as knowing them to be best able, to resolve the con­troversie.

True it is, the Hierarchie D. Whit. g. T. C. 3. deny this: of whose opinion M ^r. Pa­get must either be; or els the Classes, (as they now rule) must fall to the ground; for any relief that this Scripture Act. 15. will yeeld unto them.

6. When the Hierarchie alledge Act. 15. to proove their Dio­cesan and Provinciall Synods lawfull, marke how they are answered by the Reformists, The particular acts of the Apostles, in cases alike, Park. Polit. Eccl. l. 3. c. 20. p. 315. 316. must alike be observed. If this reason be effectuall (as indeed it is) against them; then it is no lesse effectuall against the Classes: Now I haue in part already shewed, how quite contrary their doings are, unto the example in Act. 15. unto which this further may be added: that the matter caried from Antioch to Ierusalem, was agreed upon by the whole Church; Pag. 338. and sent thither by their mu­tuall desire and consent: And hence our Divines teach, that the power of bringing things from one Congregation to another, belongeth not to any one officer, but to the whole Church. If this be true, by what word of God then, doth M ^r. Paget, by his Thus hee is accused by our Elders, in the re­cords of our Church. Oct. 6. 1631. owne authoritie, and without the consent of the Consistory, or any one of them, cary matters to the Classis, and there hee and they together, undoe all that, which the Elders, with the Churches consent, had before jointly concluded.

In pag. 82. after many bitter reproaches, hee asketh, Where is the warrant of Will. Be. and the rest, how proove they, that I destroy the power of the Church?

Wee are not to seeke of good proofe, for that which wee have spoken; for seeing hee most unlawfully carieth our busnesses away, to be determined, by the Officers of other Churches, in this respect hee goeth about to spoyle us utterly. A little after hee demaun­deth, What is to be done, if the Elders be in errour, whither the [Page 36]matter should be brought to the body of the Congregation? VVhy not? came the word onely from the Classicall Assembly, are they the people, Iob 12.2. and must wisedome die with them; are the Brethren all Simplicians, all novices; is there not a wise man among them, to judge of cases. Indeed it is the manner of those, which inclose in their owne hands the common rights of Churches so to upbraid them, and in scorne to taxe them with lightnes, rudnes, pride, conten­tion, &c. But the Spirit of God giveth a better testimony of them Act. 24. to 42. Phil. 16.7. 1 Th. 3.5.6 1 Pet. 1.7., and counteth them meet Lev. 8.23 Deut. 1.13. Act. 11.12 1 The. 5.21 1 Ioh. 3.1., both to heare and determine of mat­ters.

But this sayth hee, the Brownists doe: VVould hee have his Readers thinke, that none but they, have ever done it. If his intent be so, then I must tell him, that hee goeth about to deceive them; for (as I shall shew in another place) this was the constāt practise of the primitive Churches; viz. to have matters debated and discus­sed openly, before the whole multitude of the Church. And that hee may have something in the meane time to looke upon: Hee may (if hee please) looke on a Booke, intituled: A discours of the troubles in the English Church at Franck ford, where hee shall find, among other Articles agreed upon, by the whole Congrega­tion, these: Art. 62. If all the Ministers and Seniors (which have authority to heare and determine, &c.) be suspected or found par­ties; If any appeale be made from them, that then such appeale be made to the body Marke this M ^r. Paget. of the Congregation, the Ministers, Seniors, and parties accepted: and that the body of the Congregation may appoine so many of the Congregation, to heare and determine the said matter, or matters, as it shall seeme good to the Congregation. Againe Art. 67. If any controversy be upon the doubtfull meaning of any word, or words in the Discipline; that first it be referred to the Mi­nisters or Seniors: And if they cannot agree thereupon, then the thing be brought and referred to the whole Congregation. What sayth M ^r. Paget to this? I hope hee will not say, they were Brownists: Notwithstanding it was their practise, to have matters brought unto the body of the Congregation, howsoever hee speakes con­temptuously of it.

7. The thing then and there concluded, was divine Scripture, imposed upon all other Churches of the Gentiles, although they had no delegates there. v. 22.28. ch. 16.4.

8. It is observeable, how M ^r. Paget stumbleth at the same stone, and misapplyeth the very same place of Scripture Act. 15. as they Papists Rhemist. on the place Ioh Barn. in Act. 15. v. 3. Casp. Vlen­berg. 16. caus c. 16. p. 527. have done before: For thus they write; Paul and Barnabas condescended to referre the whole controversie, and the de­termination thereof, to the Apostles and Ancients at Ierusalem, that is to say, to commit the matter to be tryed by the Heads and Bishops, and their determination in Councill. And indeed such application of it, better serves the turne of Iesuits and Preists, that seeke to set up the Popes supremacie, and a Tyrannicall Hierarchie, then those that desire to stand for the Rights and Previledges, which Christ hath given unto his Church.

When I begun to read his 6 Answer, I thought to have found some great matter in it; because hee promised to come neerer unto the place Act. 20.28. but having well perused it, my exspectation was frustrated; for hee is so farre here, from coming neerer the point, that in my understanding hee runns quite from it. All that hee saith is to this effect: Men doe attend to their flock, when they labour that the same may be increased.

Answ. 1. It is true: But how must this enlargement be made? surely, not by opening the doore of the fould, to take in Lyons, wolves, foxes, &c. but such onely, as by their fruites appeare (out­wardly at least) to be the sheepe Esa. 35.8. Zach 14.21. Rev. 21.27 Ioel 3.17. of Christ: whereas therefore M ^r. Pager bringes into the Church the children of a stranger Ezech. 44.7., (so I am told are the words in the text) my meaning is, refuseth not to baptise bastards: the seed of the adulterer, and the whoore, when they are brought unto him: Hee needs not glory in his num­ber; for it is not the increase of God Col. 2.19. Ezech. 16.26.; but as the Prophet sayth, of whoordomes against him. And I wish, hee would well consider, when Christ shall appeare in the brightnes of his glory, and shall sit as a just Iudge, at his second coming, to aske a strict account of all his actions, what hee will say then, for this thing; seeing hee is not able to alledge one precept, or example for it, in the whole Scripture.

2. Seeing hee increaseth his flocke by baptising such infants, whose parents are without: How commeth it to passe, that hee takes not more care afterwards of them; some say Chrisoft. Tom. 1. p. 324., that children by Baptisme are made members of the visible Church; and of this [Page 38]opinion M ^r. Paget by his writing Orels I know not for what end hee writes it. here, seemes to be; if so; me thinkes then, it is hard dealing in a sheepheard, to take sheep one day into his fould, and presently after to cast them off; take no fur­ther charge of them, neither acknowledge them more for his, then those which never were of his flock at all.

For that which is in his 7 Answer: It is onely a peece of false coyne, twise or trise told over; hee conceiteth, that a Minister can not doe a thing in another Congregation, but it must follow ne­cessarily to be an act of his Ministerie: 1. Cor. 14.24. Now hee should doe bet­ter, to proove well once the point, then to begge it so continually. Besides to convince erroneous persons in the Church, this is not al­wayes a Ministeriall duety; as hee unadvisedly affirmeth: For men out of office, may doe this, as the word of God testifyeth, and the learned teach Beza an­not in 1. Co. 14. Pet. Mart. in 1. Cor. 14 29.31. Paraeus in 1. Cor. 14.29. D. Ames de conse. l. 4. c. 25. p. 215 Zwinglad Valent. com­par. & An­tibol. avert. Kinser. Iac. Acont. Strat. Sat. Sudek. cont. Turr. Soph. p. 67.68. Calv. Inst. 4 1.12. Harm. Syno. Belg. pag. 21.22. M ^r. Bates pag. 134. Defen. Disc. ag. Bridg. [...] 129. Erast.. True it is M ^r. Paget hath bene a deadly enimy al­wayes to it: Notwithstanding never was hee able (besides gibes & reproaches) to bring any thing, to proove the unlawfullnes of it. 3. The Churches of God at first had no Officers, notwithstanding hee will not say, but the Learned and able Brethren among them, might convince erronious persons, if there were just occasion for it. Againe suppose a Church, whose Pastours are taken away: cannot get the assistance of a neighbour Minister, to convince erronious per­sons; then it seemes, after his kind of disputing, they must either all hold their peace; what abilities soever they haue; or if any one speake, hee performeth a Ministeriall duetie, or otherwise his talke here is quite besides the matter, or just nothing; which of these hee will owne (for one hee must) I leave it to his owne chose. Lastly for these Scriptures Tit. 1.9.10.11. 1. Timot. 5.20. they doe not proove any such thing for which hee brings them. I grant indeed to refute erronious persons, is sometimes a Ministeriall duetie, and so is prayer, reading the Scriptures, expounding them, &c. Not­withstanding it will not follow, when a Pastour doth these things in another Congregation, that hee performes a Ministeriall due­ty; or that Brethren out of office, may not doe them also. Yet this hee must proove, otherwise his talke, is like a tedious Musician, ever turning, never playing.

The 8 and last answer, hee divides into 5 heads or branches: Touching the 1, 2, 3 and 5 of them, I except against, in that they say nothing in the controversie betweene us; and therefore they must stand aside. In the 4 hee writes, that members of the Catho­like, or Ʋniversall Church, may have their infants baptised, though they be not joyned to any particular visible Church.

To this I answer; that hee neither speakes skillfully, nor con­scionably; For 1. by the Catholike Church our Protestant Divines Piscator. Aphorism. loc. 19. p. 102. Perk. Expos. Iude. p. 484. Vrsin. Cat. part. 2. pag. 347. Pet. Mart. Loc. Com. Class. 2 p. 435. Polan. Syn­tag. l. 7. c. 4. p. 520. Alsted. The. Polem. part. 4. p. 329., understand the company of Gods elect and chosen, and hence name it D. Whita. cont. 4. Qu. 1. p. 78. Park. Eccl. Polit. l. 3. p. 210. D. Reinol. praef. 6. Conclus. p. 667. invisible, spirituall, misticall. Yea some Beza in Praef. Nov. Test. printed 1561. D. Humphr. in the life of Iewel. D. Sutclif Chaleng. l. 1. doe dislike the terme it self, and call it a vaine and fruitles word. And well they may; for the Scripture hath it not, neither is the author of it knowne; but supposed Sanford. de Descend. Dom. Nost. ad in fer. lib. 4. p. 28. and 30. to be a Papist. But to the matter in hand: If no in­fants out of particular visible Churches, ought to be baptised; but them, whose Parents are knowne to be members of the Catholike Church; then it will certainly follow, that no infants, whose Parents are not members of any visible Church, may be baptised, because the others are knowne to God onely. Observe here, how hee confutes himself, and brings one argument forth against his owne case: And indeed it is just with God, that those which contradict the truth, should contradict themselves most grosly too.

2. Unconscionably; to affirme a thing of such waight and conse­quence, without shewing any word of God for confirmation of it; doth hee thinke that wee owe him such obedience, as to beleeve things, because hee saith them: If hee doe, hee is greatly mistaken; for to speake in another mans words; Wee are not bound to Mr. Pa­gets writings, wee esteeme them not as Canonicall; but wee examen them by the Canonicall: and what in them agreeth with the autho­ritie of Divine Scripture, wee receive with his prayse: What accor­deth not therewith, wee refuse with his leave.

Besides hee knowes well enought, that mens sayings are of no force and value in matters of Religion, without warrant from the Scriptures. So say the Prophets Deut. 13.1.2.3. Ezech. 13.2. Mich. 7.13. Ier. 23.31. Ezech. 14.9., so sayth Christ Mat. 15.9. Iob. 5.39., & his Apostles 1. Cor. 3.21. Gal. 1.8. Iam. 2.1. Rom. 16.17.18., [Page 40]and thus write the Learned, Tertullian In Apol., Ignatius Epist. ad Hier., Hierome In Psal. 86, Basil Serm. ad Adol., Ambrose L. 3. de incar. Dom., Augustine Epist. 198. ad Fortun., Chrisostome In Gal. c. 1., Aquinas Lib. 9. art. ult., Cal­vin Instit. l. 1. c. 10. sect. 8., Melancton Loc. Theo. p. 627.628, Bucanus Lec. Com. p. 532., B. Iewel Repl. art. 1. Div. 29. Defen. Apol. p. 604. Chassauio Loc. Com. p. 98., Ʋrsinus In Iesai. c. 14. p. 450., and others. In his writing against us, hee is alwayes calling for te­stimony; Where is their warrant, where is their authoritie, &c. not­withstanding who more forward then himself, to send things out into the world without proofe.

Before I end this point, there are a few questions, which I thinke very needfull to propound unto him. Touching his Catholike or Ʋniversall Church. 1. By what Scriptures the name and nature of it, is warranted. 2. VVhither all Parents with their infants (Iewes, Turkes and Pagans excepted) be members thereof, or not. 3. VVhat are the notes of it. 4. VVhither wee are to judge all the members of this large Church, to be true beleevers. 5. If this universall Church be visible, then I would know of him, why there ought not to be (proportionable to it) a universall Ministery and gou­vernment. I suppose, hee will be willing, to give a direct answer unto these things, because hee professeth, to have a great desire to informe his opposite Brethren in the truth. Pref.

The next Scripture is Coloss. 4.17. And say to Archippus, take heed to the Ministerie, which thou hast received of the Lord, that thou full fill it.

To this hee sayth nothing; but referreth the Reader to the an­swer, made to the former allegation; onely hee gathereth some ob­servations from the place. Now for me, to answer his nothing, with some thing, it were worth nothing. Therefore I will passe this Scripture over: notwithstanding, I thinke fit (taking an example from him) to set downe some notes also.

1. If the Ministerie ought to be fullfilled; then must not Mini­sters, marre their doctrine, with passion, girding, spightfull speaches, willfull oppositiō, crosse teaching &c. of purpose to discountenance the truth, and to hinder the growth of knowledge and since­rity.

2. They ought not offensively to publish unto the world, the personall and secret fealings of Brethren; but in the spirit of meeke­nes, privately seeke to restore them.

3. In their writings, they should not set downe untruths and slaunders, continuall begging of the question, many words for that which was never doubted of; and not a word to proove the points in question; but contrarywise by the Scriptures soundly convince the gaine-sayer. Act. 18. ult.

4. They ought not to bring mens devises into the Congrega­tion, and there to set them up, as part of Gods worship.

5. If the people must say to Archippus take heed, &c. then must not Ministers, when they are admonished for their unsound doctrines, and bad gouvernment, reject the authority of the Church, and shrowd them selves under the arme of flesh, of purpose to con­tinue in their evill courses.

Lastly, if they must fulfill their Ministery; then should they not in their old age, be worse in life and doctrine, then they were in former time.

As Mr. Paget thought it needfull, that his Collections should be observed; so let every godly Minister, consider whither it be not meet, that each of these things should be duely regarded of them.

The third Scripture is taken from 1. Pet. 5.2. Feed the Elock of God, which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, &c. To this hee first answereth; that sheepheards for the defence and benefit of their Flockes, &c. have reason to combine themselves together, for the performance of some workes of their calling, towards the endangered sheep of other flockes: as appeareth Esa. 34.1. Luk. 2.8. Gen. 29.2.8.

Answ. Hee wrappeth his owne feet in the snare, hee layeth for another: for the similitude, as hee here applies it, makes against himself altogether. For 1. Sheepheards are not simply tyed to combine themselves together. 2. Neither doe they it, but on some speciall occasion. 3. For the combination it self, it is not to exer­cise authority over each others Flock; but joyntly to help one an­other in common cases. To make now the comparison hold in proportion: Ministers of sundry Congregations, are not absolutely bound, to combine themselves together, neither may they so doe; but upon some occasion: And touching the combination it self, it must not be, to exercise any power over each others Congrega­tion; [Page 42]but either for mutuall assistance, to resist the common adver­sary, or to discusse and consider of matters, for their better going foreward in piety and godlynes.

And this which I say is the judgement of our best Divines. Wee doe (sayth D. Whitaker) confidently affirme, that at the first, Churches were gouverned onely by their owne Ministers, Conir 4. Quaest. 1. cap. 1. p. 14. and were not subjected to other Churches or Ministers: not Colosse to Ephe­sus; not Philippi to Thessalonica: not these to Rome; nor Rome to any other: but they had all equall power in themselves, that is, indepen­dant jurisdiction and gouvernment. Neither did they seeke authori­ty otherwhere, either from Praelate or Pope.

Two things our of these words may be gathered: 1. That the primitive Churches were all independent bodies, not subjected to any other superiour Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction, then unto that which was within themselves. 2. It was not the manner of members, to cary matters away from their owne Church, unto men of other Churches; under a pretence, that they had authority above their owne Eldership and Congregation: Notwithstanding contrary to the first of these, is M ^r. Pagets profession; to the later his practise: but how able hee is, either to refute M ^r. Whitaker herein, or to justify himself, wee shall heare hereafter; for hitherto hee hath bene silent in it.

To his second answer: That the word translated feeding, doth also signifie to rule and gouverne. I grant it. Againe where hee sayth: If this kind of feeding be restrained unto one Congregation, then is all the authoritie and gouvernment of Churches, by Classes and Synods, overthrowne thereby. This I grant too. And further, that it is un­lawfull for Assemblies of Ministers to exercise any act of power, in a­ny Congregation besides their owne. What doth now follow in his opinion: Then Ministers (sayth hee) may not give their voyces for the decision of controversies in any Congregation besides their owne: contrarie to the use of this word of feeding, applied to such in Israell, as exercised some acts of their Ministerie, for the help and benefit of divers Congregations, as Ezek. 34.2. &c.

Answ. 1. Doth not M ^r. Paget see any difference, betweene a Ministers giving of his voyce, for the decision of a controversy, and exercising an act of power in another Congregation besides his [Page 43]owne; indeed it seemes, that hee doth not: and therefore most confusedly hath here joyned them together. But other men, can see otherwise; and teach otherwise too: they can put a plaine di­stinction, betweene a Ministers giving advise, and councill in the matters of other Churches; and exercising authority and power over them. Touching this point, learnedly writeth Basil Epist. 48. & 52. Cirill Epist. 18. ad Celestin., Socrates Lib. 1. c. 2.14.21.30. Athanius Apolog. 2. Theodoret Lib. 2. c. 8 Sozomen L. 3. c. 10., M ^r. Parker Polit. Eccl. l. 3. p. 335., also affirmeth, that when a Congregation seeketh unto others for assi­stance; it is not for office to determine, but for their gifts and estima­tion: not to receive precepts, but onely for their consent, councill, and approbation. And for confirmation of this, hee names B. Iewel, D. Rainolds and others, which have writen the same.

Here let it be observed, that when wee used the like speach in our Protestation; viz. that wee doe reverentlie esteeme of the Classis, for councill and advise, in all difficult matters, &c. M ^r. Paget very angerly tels us, that this is but a lame, halting and half reverence: no more then that M ^r. Iacob, and his company did give to Classes and Synods: Yea the Brownists themselves doe seeme to give as much: Not to speake any thing of his gibing; wee say, this is as much as God requireth of us; and therefore wee may not give more unto them. I know M ^r. Paget will take this ill, for hee loves not to be so streight lased; as to haue his authority confined within in one Congregation; but let him remember, though Adam found more roome when hee was cast out of Paradise, then within: yet his condition, I suppose was never the more comfortable for that.

2. For the place in Ezek. 34. it speaketh not any thing, of the thing for which hee bringeth it.

3. Howsoever the Israelites met in sundry places, notwithstan­ding they were all but one Congregation; for their Synagogues were not entyre Churches of themselves; but parts or members of the nationall Church. And therefore the Priests and Levites, where­soever they were, exercised not some acts of their Ministery, unto some, that were not members of their Congregation, as hee injudi­ciously affirmeth.

4. Hee doth not well, to compare the nationall sheepheards in Israel, unto the Ministers now under the Gospel, who are bound unto particular Congregations; In pag. 66. hee seekes to strengthen the authority of Classes and Synods, by the Iewish politie and gou­vernment: [Page 44]Now the Papists to establish the Sea of Rome, use the same argument. And the truth is, if M r. Paget intend to dispute this way, they will cary it, quite away from him. But I thinke hee will hereafter be more considerate, and speake no further of that manner, and forme of Church gouvernment: seeing hee knowes, the most learned on our side, doe condemne the Papists for it; viz. Iunius Animad. v. Con. 1. l. 3. c. 4., Calvin Inst. l. 4. c. 6. Sect. 2., Cartwright Ag. Whitg. l. 2. p. 614., D. Whitaker Cont. 4. Qu. 1. and others.

It is likely M r. Paget would take it amisse, if I should silently passe over one thing, which here, and before in pag. 134. hee ad­vertiseth the Reader to take notice of; and that is: that M ^r. Ains­worth hath formerly brought against him these Scriptures, viz. Act. 20.28. 1. Pet. 5.2. But have none saving the Separatists, alledged them, to the like purpose as M ^r. Davenport here doth; indeed so hee insinuateth: Now whither hee speake this, as hee is perswaded, or of purpose to deceive, I will not determine, neither will I presse him for resolution, unlesse hee please. But this I say, the learned doe bring these allegations, to the like purpose as M ^r. Davenport here useth them; that is, to proove, that ordinary Bishops Repl. to D. Down. Defen. l. 2. part. 2. pag. 141. and Elders, are restrained and tyed to the oversight of one onely Congregation. Pe­ter (sayth M ^r. Cartwrith Ag. Whitg. [...].1. pag. 67.1. Pet. 5.2. Act. 20.28) willeth the Pastours of the Churches, that they should feed the Flockes. What Flockes? Not everie one, but those which are committed to their faith and trust; or which de­pendeth upon them. And so Paul, speaking to the Ministers, or Bishops of Ephesus, willeth them, that they should take heed unto the Flock, over which the Holy Ghost had made them over-seers: where hee restraineth as Peter did, their oversight and watch to their owne particular Flock. Eccl. Gouv. p. 31. Defe. of Discipl. ag. D. Br. pag. 46. A Pastour (sayth another *) must be limited to one onely Congregation: And as hee is ordained, to the attendance and service thereof, so must hee there exercise, and execute that office unto which hee is appointed. Hee that desireth further satisfa­ction; let him read Cartwrith Grounds of Relig. chap. 52. pag. 305, Polan. Syntag. l. 7. cap. 11. pag. 535. D. Whitaker de Rom. Pont. cont. 4. Quaest. 1. pag. 11.12.13. Necessity of Discipl. pag. 38. Refutat. Doctor Downames lib. 2. Sermon. part. 2. pag. 26.70.79.

M ^r. Paget granteth, that Pastours are required in Act. 20.28. and 1. Pet. 5.2. to exercise their Ministery in their owne Congre­gation: Notwithstanding (saith hee) this prooves not, but they may doe the like in other neighbour Churches. I have already in part, shewed the daungerousnes of this kind of reasoning; in truth it doth not onely unclaspe the arguments, which our Divines haue al­ledged against Hereticks; but also it is a notable ground devised, for Atheists and blasphemers, to gather a number of most wicked posi­tions by it. For example; to proove that wee must direct our prayers to God onely, our Writers Perk. 3 vo. p. 121. Smith Essex Deue p. 15. Wischart pag. 16. alledge Mat. 6.9. When yee pray, say, Our Father, &c. But what may Papists reply hereunto? If they will take their lesson out of M ^r. Pagets Booke, thus: That wee are to direct our prayers to God, wee grant: Howbeit this place prooves not; but wee may pray also, to Angels in Heaven, to Saints departed, to any Image of wood and stone whatsoever.

Againe to refute their fiction of purgatory, the Learned Pola. Synt. l. 7. c. 24. p. 551. and his Symp. Cath. c. 29. th. 1.2 Gerha. Har. Hist. p. 183 Chem. Har. Hist. c. 122. p. 1750. Pet. Mart. Loc. com. Class. 7. c. 9. p. 619. Alsted. The. Polem. pa. 4 pag. 369. Perk. 3. Vol. p. 227. on Mat. 7.12. cite Luk. 16.22.23. and 23.43. Mat. 7.13. where wee find mention made of a Heaven, a Hell, a streaght-gate, a narrow-gate. But if his doctrine be sound, they may easily put this by, and say; we grant, that these Scriptures proove, there is a Heaven, and a Hell, &c. not­withstanding there may be a third place too (as wee hold) for ought is here sayd to the contrary. To be short; wee read in Gene­sis, that God in the beginning made the world; Adam maried Eve, &c. now let this be granted, yet according to his manner of disputing, that may be true too, which the Iewes fable; to wit, that many lesser worlds were made before; that Adam had another wife besides Eve, named Lillith Bran. Spie­gel printed at Craconia 1597. Ben Sirach Quaest. 60., from whom hee was divorsed for her pride. I could multiply instances in this kind, to shew, that there is not an errour so grosse and vile, but it may be justifyed this same way (and as well too) which hee hath here devised, to maintaine, that Pastours may exercise, all acts of their Ministerie, in any Congregation besides their owne. Hee tels us in pag. 89. that by our speeches wee doe exceedingly gratify many sorts of Libertines, Arrians, Socinians and other Hereticks. But the truth is, if hee looke well, on his owne writing, hee shall see the thing charged upon us, most true in him­self; for besides the former instances; marke how the Papists argue, Caes. Baron. Tom. 1. p. 137. just as hee doth: Although there be mention made in Scripture, but of 3 Church Officers, that is, Bishops, Elders, and Deacons, yet there were more, &c.

Object. But what, if need require, that a Pastour should admini­ster the Sacraments, Pag. 134. both of Baptisme and the Lords Supper, in neigh­bour Churches, that are destitute, and hee is desired thereunto.

Answ. 1. There is no precept, nor example in the Scriptures, to proove that such a thing should be desired: Good minds must use good meanes also, otherwise they please not God. Obedience is better then sacrifice.

2. I reason thus; Whosoever rightly administreth the Sacra­ments: must doe it by vertue of a Ministeriall calling: But no man can administer the Sacraments by vertue of a Ministeriall calling, saving in his owne Congregation: Therefore no Pastour can rightly administer the Sacraments, but in his owne Congregation.

The last of this argument, which onely may be doubted of, I proove thus: That which is a proper worke of an Apostle; is not to be done by any ordinarie Minister: To administer officiallie in more Congregations then one, is a proper worke of an Apostle. There­fore, &c.

The proposition is certain; the assumption is taught generally by learned men: For in this very thing, they doe distinguish ordinary Ministers from Apostles, the first being tyed to one onely Flock. The later having power and libertie to exercise their Ministerie any where. Plainly to this purpose writeth D. Whitaker, The Apostles (saith hee) received the kees from Christ, and power of teaching, and re­mitting sinnes, as common Bishops of the whole World: but all others of their owne Churches. In these things therefore, which the Apostles had extraordinarily, Bishops succeed them not, that is, in that power, which is truely and properly Apostolicall. Marke, what hee counteth Apostolicall; namely to be a common Bishop, that is to exercise a power in more Churches then one.

Here I will passe over Rom. 14.5.23. because I find nothing in his answer, which concerneth the matter in controversie betweene us. The Scriptures following are these; viz. Act. 11.21.26. Gen. 17.10. Rom. 4.11. Act. 2.39. But before hee comes, to answer those Scriptures in particular; hee makes a great complaint, unto the Reader, against M ^r. Davenport, and his opposite Brethren; for some unjust doing in the question betweene them; and their tres­passe is, because they have sayd promiscuous baptizing of all infants without difference, Hence hee rayseth this observation. A man [Page 47]that reads their writings, might easilie be brought to doubt, whither Turkes or Iewes, Mahometists or Heathens, or infidelles, of what Nation or sect soever, did sometime present their children to bap­tisme, and that it was the custome of the Dutch Church, to baptise such being presented.

Answ. I will not contend with him, whither it may be possible, that any should be such Simplicians, as to make so groundles an inference: But this I say, and will proove it also, that M ^r. Paget goes about to deceive his Readers, in that hee would have them to conceive, that it is not their manner, to baptise all infants brought to them; but they make a distinction; admit some, others not. And whither this be so, I appeale to his owne conscience, are not Ba­stards received constantly to Baptisme. If the Parents are knowne to be drunkards, swearers, blasphemers, excommunicates, Here­ticks, &c. notwithstanding their children are still baptised, if they are brought to the Congregation. Yea more then this: If the Pa­rents come not at all, to nod the head, (of which thing wee shall speake hereafter) yet this hinders not the infants baptising; for it is enought if a girrle of 16 or 17 yeares, doe bring it, and there bow with the rest to some questions propounded to them.

Now then let all judicious Readers judge; If wee had not just cause to name it, a promiscuous baptising: Seeing (as I said) those which are not members of any Congregation; nor worship God in any Congregation; but live rather without God in the world, make a mocke of sin, and count it their grace, that they are grace­les, even those vile varlets; when they will, may haue their seed baptised. I say as freely and ordinarily, as those which are mem­bers, and men knowne to feare God.

As for his mentioning of Turkes, Iewes, &c. it is vainely done; for all know, that such doe not present their children to our bap­tisme; and therefore I wish him hereafter, rather in sincerity to seeke the truth; then with shifts, cavills, and evasions, the mainte­nance of his case and credit. Notwithstanding this I must tell him, I am verily perswaded, that it would require all the witt and skill M ^r. Paget hath; to proove that such Parents, whose children hee and others sometime baptise, are not a great deale worse in life and conversation, then many Iewes, Turkes and Heathens.

The next thing undertaken by M ^r. Paget, is to proove, that men may be reputed in the Covenant by testification of their faith and repentance, though it were by a word or gesture of the body, wit­nessing their consent thereunto, so farre as to procure the admission of their infants to have the seale of circumcision or Baptisme, as appea­reth from the holy records.

Answ. 1. Hee layeth downe here a manifest untruth; (to speake the best of it) in affirming, that the Iewes under the Law, might lawfully admit infants to the seale of circumcision; before the Pa­rents of them, were joyned actuall members to that visible Church. For this I gather to be his meaning, from these words: So farre as to procure the admission of their infants, to have the seale of Cir­cumcision. Besides it must either thus be understood, or hee un­derstood not his owne saying: For our question respects onely, such infants, whose Parents are not joyned to any Church. And therefore this must needs hold a just proportion with it. Now whither this be not a great presumption in him? let all judge, that are wise to sobriety; for to affirme a thing, against the expresse com­maundement of God, and continuall practise of the Saints; of pur­pose to uphold by it, and unlawfull and sinfull practise. Hee that feares the Lord and his righteous judgements, as hee ought, will take heed not to devise such unsounds tenets.

2. For the 20 Scriptures, or more, which hee hath here quoted; the truth is, Pag. 152. not one of them, either hurts our case, or helpes his. For 1. I would know of him, whither to say Yea, Amen, so be it, (whereby an externall profession of faith, love, and thankfullnes is shewed towards God) his meaning be, that this consisteth in the pronunciation of the letters, syllables, or words. Againe whither by nodding with the head, hee intendeth simply the gesture, with­out any respect to the fitnes of the doer of it. If hee say, hee meanes nothing, saving bare speaking, and bare bowing. Then I say, it is a blasphemous saying; for it is possible, that a bird, or a beast, may doe so much. But on the contrary, if hee say, hee respecteth the qualification and condition of the speakers, and nodders, then his whole matter fals to the ground: because the speakerss and nodders, in question, are altogether (for the present) unfit and uncapable, to performe any Religious worke; for (as I sayd) they are knowne, to deny God in workes, Psal. 50. and hate to be reformed: what then haue [Page 49]such to doe, to take Gods word into their mouth; or if they would, yet what calling hath M ^r. Paget, to put such a thing upon them. Briefly, though hee will doe it; yet what reason haue wee to repute them, for all this in the Covenant; seeing wee find in Scripture no warrant to justify the action.

2. Be it granted, that the Church and people of God, in some cases, haue declared their consent, by saying, Yea, Amen, so be it, or by a gesture of the body; notwithstanding it will not hence fol­low, that men and women, not joyned to any Congregation, nei­ther intending so to doe: Moreover knowne to be idolaters, adul­terers and most prophaine persons, may be reputed in the cove­nant, by saying Amen, or nodding with the head, unto a few que­stions read out of a booke unto them; and so lawfully procure the admission of their infants unto the seale of Baptisme. Notwithstan­ding either this hee must proove; or otherwise hee is guilty of abu­sing, and mis-applying all these Scriptures Mat. 5.37. & 9.28. & 13.51. Ioh. 21.15. Rev. 22.20 Ps. 106.48 1 Co. 14.16 Eccl. 19.8. & 24.3.4. Deut. 27.14.15. & 29.1.10.15. Rom. 1.45. &c. Ioh. 13.24. Luk. 1.22.62. & 5.7. Act. 18.20. 2. Cor. 8. & 4.31. 1. Chro. 29.20. & 2. Chron. 20.28. here heaped toge­ther.

And that the Reader may be better perceive, the loosenes of his reasoning; I doe intreat him, to observe what wee say; and what hee sayth unto it: Whereas it is the custome of the Dutch Church, to baptise many infans, whose Parents are not members of any Church; when they answer Yea at the Leiturgy of Baptisme publickely, or by nodding the head. This practise, sayth M ^r. Davenport, and wee too, is unlawfull. M ^r. Paget to justify it, stepts in, and tels us, that in Moyses time, in Christs time, and after in the Apostles dayes; many godly people; members of the Church, haue in some cases, signifyed their meaning, and their wills, by short speaches, and ex­ternall gestures: And this is all the answer, that hee makes to it. So that hee maketh a shew of remooving the objection; but in truth leaveth it altogether untouched.

But by his leave, seeing hee slides away from the point; I must intreat him, to come back againe to it; and plainely to proove un­to us these 3 things, which hee very cunningly takes for granted. 1. By what authority hee publickely propoundeth certaine que­stions, unto people, that are not members of any particular Con­gregation; and will have them, to answer, with Yea, or nodding the head, or the like. 2. How it can appeare, that such, are to be counted Christians, in the sence of the Scriptures, which are visi­bly [Page 50]wicked men; manifest no fruit of faith and repentance, but when some questions are mooved to them; and then all that they doe, is to say; Amen, or to nod with the head, at the afore-sayd questions.

3. Seeing it is the judgement of the Learned D. Cha. ser. on Rom. 12 p. 53. Chrisost in Mat. Hom. 38 in Act. Hom. 19. Whitak. ag. Du. l. 1. de Scri. Defen. godly Minist. ag. Br. p. 98., that the Cano­nicall Scripture ought onely to be read in the Congregation; and no writing besides it. Yea and divers Councills Conc. Hip­pon. cap. 38. Laod. c. 59. haue so concluded. I would know then, what warrant men have, to read a Leiturgie of Baptisme publickely. I suppose M ^r. Paget is not ignorant, that untill hee have cleared these things, all that hee hath yet sayd, is frivolous and impertinent.

Lastly, let it be againe observed, that the Papists Bellarm. de Ecc. Mil. c. 2 See Sutclif. Chal. c. 10. pag. 40. Perk. 3. Vol. pag. 536. and hee joyne here togither; and both against the truth; for they teach (as hee doth) Let a man be whatsoever hee will: if hee professe the faith, it is sufficient to make him a member of the Catholike Church. Againe Stevar [...]us Comment. in 1 Thess. 3 8. p. 115., It is enought, to baptisme, if a man have the knowledge of the Creed, the ten commaundements, and Sacraments. Would not one thinke that he had bene, an apprintise to them, in setting up the same trade or craft that they doe.

Now to the places of Scriptures. The first is Act. 11. 21-26. A great number beleeved, and turned unto the Lord, &c. and the Disciples were called Christians.

To this hee saith: It cannot be specified by what words, or signes, more or lesse, they professed their conversion unto God.

Answ. 1. This allegation was not brought, to shew, by what words or signes the faith full professed their conversion unto God; but to proove, that men must first beleeve, and be joyned to some vi­sible Church; before they can be counted Christians, in that sence, as to procure (to use his words) the admission of their infants, to haue the seale of Baptisme. But to this hee saith nothing; but takes up a matter, which hee needed not; and passeth by, what hee should haue spoken.

2. Be it granted, that it cannot be specified by what words, &c. yet it can be manifested, that they shewed, such faith and repen­tance, as the grace of God appeared in them. vers. 23. Now suppose M ^r. Paget were to make a Sermon, on the doctrine of faith, or repentance: I doe thinke, when hee should come to set downe the [Page 51]evidences of these graces; hee would not affirme, that Atheists, He­reticks, theeves, murderers, &c. haue them; notwithstanding the Parents of those children, for whose Baptisme hee here pleadeth, are (I say many of them) such vile wretches, as hee well knowes.

3. It is to be inquired; whither his meaning be, to compare, those Disciples, and Christians, Act. 11.21.26. with the Churchles people in question: If so? Then I must be bold to tell him, that as hee dishonoureth the primitive Saints; so himself much more. On the otherside, if hee say, hee intendeth no such thing, then hee might haue spared much labour, saved charge, and spent his time more profitably, then to write many words, and all just no­thing.

4. I marvaile, what was in his mind, when hee wrote this answer. Hee asketh, How it can be prooved from hence, that such as consented unto the doctrine of the Gospel, propounded unto them, by answering Yea, or bowing their heads, might not thereupon, he admit­ted unto Baptisme, they and their Infants.

Answ. 1. I doe not yet understand, how hee rayseth this obser­vation; viz. that the beleevers in Act. 11. consented to the doctrine of the Gospel, by answering Yea to it, or bowing their bodies, in testi­mony of their liking thereof. I perceive it is an easy thing, to con­quest; if begging may procure one that. But I mind not to give the case so away: Therefore I doe deny, that ever these embraced the truth in so absurd a sort; And seeing this is an assertion of his owne head; it lies him now upon, to justify it. Tertullian In his booke of prescript. ag Heret. sayth, It is not lawfull for men to flatter themselves, with any thing of their owne opinion and judgement, nor chuse that which comes in their owne braine: Wee have the Apostles for example, who taught nothing af­ter their owne pleasure, but faithfully the doctrines, which they recei­ved of Christ.

2. If by pronouncing the doctrine of the Gospell, hee meane a reading, or saying over of a Litu [...]gie; as is the matter in contro­versy: then I doe againe deny, that there was in the Apostles dayes, any such thing practised.

3. If it should be granted (which hee cannot proove) that those Christians at Antioch, consenied to the doctrine of the Gospell, by answering, Yea to it; or bowing their heads, in testimony of their approbation of it. Yet this helpes not his case at all; unlesse hee can [Page 52]proove, 1. That they were not members of any visible Church. 2. That their conversation was irreligious. 3. That they presented their infants to the Minister in the Congregation, and after saying Yea, or nodding the head, to some questions propounded, had them baptised. Thus are his answers very wind, and no more savour in them, then in the white of an egg, eaten without salt.

The next allegation is Gen. 17.10. This is my Covenant, which yee shall keepe, betweene me and you, and thy seed after thee: Everie man child among you shall be circumcised.

M ^r. Paget to this answereth: It can not hence be shewed that more questions were propounded to the Parents, which brought their children to be circumcised, then are now in the administration of Bap­tisme, &c. Or that such had circumcision denied unto their children, which shewed a willingnes to embrace the Covenant, by such brief answers and gestures wee speake off.

Answ. Here are words; but in truth not a word, concerning the matter, for which hee bringeth them. This Scripture Gen. 17.10. was alledged to shew, that such are to be counted Christians chil­dren, (and so consequently to have right unto Baptisme) whose Pa­rents (at least one of them,) in externall profession, are within the Covenant. Thus writeth M ^r. Davenport. Now if a man read the others reply: hee must needs confesse, unlesse hee will confesse himself to be a Simplician, and ignorant in Logicke and Religion, that it is as indisgested a thing, as ever was broched by a man of learning: much better therefore it had bene, if hee had left, this loose kind of reasoning; and either disprooved, some part of the others proofe, according to the rules of reason; or yeelded to the conclusion, which followeth by force of argument.

But to make a short answer to his speach; although it looke not unto the thing, for which hee devised it. 1. How doth he know, that there was a Leiturgie of Circumcision in the Church of God under the Law? and that it was propounded to those Parents, which brought their children to be circumcised. This I lay up on him, as another invention of his owne: for it is most certaine, never was there such a thing practised, by the Fathers, in old time; neither haue the Iewes in these dayes any humane forme among them: Be­sides, if their writings Syntag. In. c. 2. p. 80. Drus. praet. [...]. 7. Purchas Pil. l. 2. c. 14. sect. 4. p. 204.205. be searched, which treat of the manner of [Page 53]circumcision, there will be found no such thing in them, whereof hee speaketh.

Among many other good properties, which hee himselfe saith, hee hath; one is, that Pag. 104. hee is no inventer of new conceits and opi­nions. But surely, if the rest there, be not truer then this, hee will be found an untrue speaker in them all.

Further I would know of him, what hee intendeth by embra­cing the Covenant: (for I perceive hee seeketh advantage by double construction of words) Is it his meaning, that those, which were no Iewes, nor members of the Iewish Church; yer brought not­withstanding their infants unto the Preists; and when they had answered to some questions, either by saying Yea, or nodding with the head; they had them immediately circumcised, although them­selves, remained still, out of the communion and fellowship of the Church. If this be his meaning (as it must needs be, unlesse his meaning were to write just nothing) then I doe affirme, that in this, hee hath spoken irreligiously, injuriously and untruely. 1. Irre­ligiously, to have the seale of the righteousnes of faith, to be made an unholy thing. 2. Injuriously to accuse Gods chosen of finne, causelesly. 3. Vntruely; and thus I proove it. None might eat of the Passeover, unlesse they were members of the Iewish Church, Exod. 12.6.45. But all circumcised among them, might eat of the Passeover, vers. 44. Therefore all the circumcised among them, were members of the Church.

If the Reader desire, to know further about this thing; let him him peruse M ^r. Ainsworths Annotations on Genes. 17. and Exod. 12. and there hee shall see, what the Iewes write of it; viz. that none are to communicate with the Church, in the ordi­nances of circumcision, and the Passeover, but such as are members thereof.

The next Scripture is Rom. 4.11. And hee received the signe of circumcision, a seale of the righteousnes of saith, which hee had yet being uncircumcised.

M ^r. Pagets answer to this allegation may be cast into 3 heads, or branches. 1. Abraham is called the father of all that beleeve, whither members of a particular Church or not. 2. There might be some beleevers in Abrahams time, not members of his familie, nor under the gouvernment of any particular Church. 3. If a sonne, or bond servant of Ephron, the Hittite were then brought to the know­ledge of the true God, &c. why might not the infant of such a one have bene circumcised, though not living in a visible Church.

Answ. I will not say, that M ^r. Paget hath read Antonies pre­cept in Tully De Orat. l. 2., who wisheth men, if they be troubred about a hard question, to say nothing to it. But this I can say of him by expe­rience; hee fol owes that rule closely. For as before, so here againe, hee useth many words; but answereth not at all to the point in hand.

This Scripture (as may be seene in the place Iust Comp. pag. 5.) was brought to proove, that as Abraham received circumcision, when hee was a member of a visible Church; so consequently baptisme, which comes in the roome thereof, belongeth peculiarly to such, as are joyned to some particular Congregation. M ^r. Paget perceiving (as it is probable) the strenght of the argument, cunningly with­drawes himself from it; and that the Reader might not see it, hee sets downe 2 or 3 conceited fancies of his owne, unto which briefly thus I answer.

1. Imagen, I should deny that there were in Abrahams time any beleevers, out of his family; or contrarywise, say I grant there were, what would hee hence inferre? for my part I know not; nor yet hee himfelf, I am perswaded.

2. Concerning his why not, I aske of him for his why so. Is it the manner of Disputers, to propound a case, and then aske of the standers by, (Sirs) why may it not be thus. If there be any Divine patterne for such a practise, it now concerneth you M ^r. Paget to shew it: If you cannot (as I am sure you cannot) then I wish you in such cases hereafter to shurt your lips Pr. 17.28, and so you shall be esteemed a man of the better understand.

But to deliver you (if it may be) from your vaine conjectures and doubts: As for circumcision, it was not commaunded to the Gentles at all; neither was it a seale of the Covenant of grace to Noe and his seed: But was commaunded to Abraham, and his [Page 55]seed, and house-hold, and such onely as would be of that Church, and partake of the Passeover. Therefore it not being commaunded to Noes sonnes, such as abode in his faith, (howbeit scattered afarre of) were doubles in the Covenant of grace still, and saved as well as wee: I say without circumcision, for the same was not im­posed on them. And this is the judgement of learned men; viz. Paraeus Comment. in Rom. 3.1. & 9.4., D. Willet Comment. Rom. ch. 3. Q. 1. p. 146, Galatine Lib. 11. c. 7. pag. 581., and the Hebrew writers Maimony in Misneth: Treat. of Kings ch. 10 sect. 7. & Treat. circums. ch. 1. sect. 3.6. say as much.

The next Scripture is Act. 2.39. For the promise is unto you; and to your children, and to all that are afarre off; Even as many, as the Lord our God shall call.

His whole answer hereto is this: Though the promise be made un­to such as are called, yet who can shew, that such are not to be coun­ted outwardlie called, and in some measure within the priviledge of the Covenant, who being themselves alreadie baptized, and with­drawing themselves from other sects and Churches, doe bring their in­fants unto the true Church to be baptized, being there also readie to make a publicke profession of their faith before the Congregation. Thus hee.

Answ. 1. For his phrase here, to count men outwardly called, I see no warrant for it in all the Scriptures: For whomsoever in the judgement of charity, wee can judge to be outwardlie called, them (I take it) are by us to be judged inwardly called also. Philip. 1.7. 1. Cor. 13. I confesse indeed, if wee haue respect unto God, then it may be said, that some are onely outwardlie called: But who these (some) are, wee cannot tell; and therefore wee may not give sentence in it. Ro. 14.14. If hee say, that hee intended both; then I answer; 1. Hee should haue done well, to haue spoken out plainly so. 2. Then it must follow, that all such Parents, whose infants hee and others baptise; be their conversation never so bad, are notwithstanding in his opinion the elect and chosen of God. 3. Hee ought not to keepe backe one of them, from his Congregation; if they desire to be members thereof. Againe, But if hee say, hee judgeth them not to be in­wardly called; then by his owne confession, it must follow, that they want true faith and repentance: and so hee giveth (and that of knowledge) holy things to the unworthy, and to persons who­ly uncapable thereof.

2. I cannot tell what hee intendeth, by the priviledge of the Co­venant; if hee meane Baptisme, then I answer: This ordinance is given to the Church, and no person lawfully may be admitted to it, unlesse hee be a member thereof See the two next Sections.. If hee have any other mea­ning, when I know it, I shall be ready to give a further answer to it.

3. For what reason doth hee add these words, viz. and with­drawing themselves from other sects and Churches. Is it not, because (as I sayd before) hee would haue people thinke, that it is not their practise, to baptise all infants brought unto them. Me thinkes if his heart perswades him, that his case is good, hee should not seeke thus closely, to with-draw the Reader from the question; but speake out clearely in it, and to this purpose; say: It is the custome of the Dutch Church, and my practise also: that what infants soever are brought unto us, for Baptisme, to baptise them; be the Parents of them, holy or unholie members of any particular Church, or not. Yea howso­ever wee know that the children presented unto us, are Bastards; yet if the Parents, or in their absence some other, doe shew a consent unto certaine questions, either by nodding with the head, or saying Yea, Amen, or so be it: wee put them not backe, neither ought wee; but give them the holie seale of remission and pardon of finne.

Indeed this had bene plaine dealing, and nothing but the truth. And therefore whereas hee tels us, of men outwardlie called, with­drawing themselves from other sects. And againe Pag. 145., of having more knowledge of the truth, &c. then some of those that are members of the Church. What is this, but meere dawbing; for what use serves it, but like the rough garment to deceive. Hee knowes, and wee know it too: If infants be brought in the manner aforesayd, all is well: it matters not whose children they be; viz. whither English, Dutch, French, &c. nor how vile and wicked the Parents of them haue formerly alwayes bene, to that houre and time. I would not speake so often of this thing, but that hee constraineth me to it, in regard hee laboureth to hide from the Readers, the true knowledge of the point in question. But hence let it be considered, whither in this hee give not cause of just suspition unto them to thinke, that hee is ashamed to appeare a Defendant. So hee cals himself in pag. 146. in the case, as it stands simply and nakedly betweene us.

The last Scripture is 1. Cor. 5.12. For what have I to doe, to judge them also that are without, doe not yee judge them that are within.

To this first Mr. Paget answereth: It is not plainely discribed, how M ^r. Davenport applies this sentence, to the question in hand; it had bene good, if hee had shewed, how hee had drawne his argument from hence.

Answ. M r. Paget among many Disputers, had the least reason, to make a complaint this way; for hee in his writing, not onely leaves the maine points in controversy untouched; but also, for the unnecessary matters, which hee bringeth in, they are such oracles, or rather riddles; as to understand them, a man had need hee were either another Oedipus, or had hee himself present to expound them. Notwithstanding hee should have remembred, that hee being the doer of the things in this controversy, the burden of prooving lay directly on his shoulders: And therefore it had bene his part plainely to have demonstrated from the Scripture, that which hee affirmeth, touching the Classis and Baptisme; for one testimony or argument rightly drawne from the Apostolicall writ­ings, to justify these assertions, will easily draw us to acknowledge them. But till then; though hee write ten volumes more, and each of them, ten times greater then this; yet never shall hee be able to convince the conscience, of any indifferent Reader, in the points which hee hath undertaken to be a Defendant; to wit, 1. that particular Congregations are to be dependent bodies: and to stand under other Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves. 2. That in­fants may be baptized, whose Parents are not joyned to any particu­lar visible Church. But to the point.

This Scripture fitly serves, to proove the point in hand; for the scope and drift of the Apostle there, is to shew, that members of visible Churches, haue onely right unto the publicke ordinances ad­ministred therein. As for others, they are not to be judged; that is, in those publicke things the Church hath no relation to them; nor may (I say in this respect) haue communion with them. And hence I reason thus: If the infants in questiō are without, then may they not be admitted unto Church communion; and so consequently not to baptisme. But they are without; Therefore, &c. The proposi­tion is manifest by this Scripture 1. Corint. 5.12. The assump­tion [Page 58]is evident, and needeth no proofe.

After this hee tels us, of 3 sorts of persons, which may be said to be without. 1. Members of a visible Church, wanting true faith. 2. In­fidells and Heathens. 3. Those that for the present live not under the Discipline and Gouvernment of some particular Church, and yet make profession of the same Religion, with the true visible Chur­ches, &c. This later practise some imperfect communion with them: and therefore in some sence may be said to be of such Churches.

Answ. 1. Howsoever the Lord knoweth who are his; yet can­not Mr. Paget, nor any man else, judge men to be without true faith, and so no members of the invisible Church: specially they stan­ding members of some particular Congregation; and therefore his talke here, is altogether fruitles, and nothing concerneth the place 1. Cor. 5.12. which hee pretendeth to answer.

2. The difference which hee puts betweene men without; is without warrant of Scripture. Paul (as Paraeus Comment. on 1. Cor. c. 5. v. 12. p. 272. well observes on this place) divides all men into two ranckes: the first and greater without; the later and lesser within. And howsoever th [...], for personall gifts and graces are not alike; notwithstanding, as they stand in relation to a visible Church-state; they differ not: But are all alike excluded from actuall communion in the publicke ordi­nances thereof: As wee see in a desert, or willdernes, diversitie of trees; some good, some bad; some are thornes and brambles; others are vines and fig-trees: nevertheles in respect of a Vineard, or Orchard, they are quite out of the same a like.

3. For his imperfect communion, it is a perfect invention of his owne head; for the word of God teacheth no such thing. Againe, where hee sayth, they are members of the Church in some sence, and not in another: this likewise is another of his fictions. And observe here how hee pleads for the prophaine multitude; just as doe the Papists for their Pope; in one respect hee is a man, in another respect hee is more then a man. Iew. Defen. Apol. 6. part. c. 20. Divis. 3. p. 784. One way hee may erre, another way hee cannot erre. But not minding to spend much time about the thing; (for the naming of it, is a sufficient resutation) this I say, a man must either be, a member of a particular Church formally: other­wise hee cannot be reputed a visible member of it, in any sence or respect at all. If hee can proove the contrary by the word of God, it lyeth him now upon it to doe it.

In the meane time, let the discreet Reader judge, whither hee be not guilty of venting new conceits and opinions of his owne. And whither, by these his new conceits and opinions, hee doe not gratifie the Valentinians, Marcionites, and Gnostikes: Who (as Irenaeus Advers. Haer. 8.3. c. 7. & l. 1. c. 1 reporteth) did seeke to bring into the Church mens devises. And whither hee doe not gratify the Trent-Councell Conc. Trid. Sess. 4. dec. 1 Fathers, and the Papists: yea moreover the Cabala, or Talmud 4. Esd. 14.26.48. of the Rabbins, and the Montanists Tertul. de praeser. adve. Haer. c. 52. For the sinne, for which these chiefly are condemned, is, because they haue broched many lies and beastly vanities; as if all things concerning faith and manners, were not contained in the Scriptures.

Thus wee haue examined M ^r. Pagets Answers, to the allega­tions of Scriptures, brought by M ^r. Davenport. Now least hee should complaine against me, for some partialitie: I thinke it not amisse to write a few words touching that Scripture, which hee mentioneth in pag. 44. namely Mat. 3.

If hee cannot find a better ground then this, to lay his unlimited Baptisme upon, surely then the same will never proove to be law­full. For 1. the persons there specifyed, through Iohns doctrine, powerfully caried home to their consciences: had their hearts deep­ly wounded Paraeus Comment. in Mat. c. 3. v. 6. p. 29. with the sence of sinne; and thereupon made open confession thereof. 2. That which they did, was done freely Aret. in Mat. 3. pag. 119., and voluntarily. 3. The same was accompanied with a desire Muscul. in Mat. 3. p. 24., and purpose of amendment of life. 4. They were members of a visible Church. 5. The Baptiser, was no ordinary Minister: Now then how can M ^r. Paget hence proove, that men, not humbled by the word preached; not manifesting any sorrow for sinne, not shewing any desire of reformation of life; not members of any particular Congregation; may neverthelesse haue their infants, lawfully bapti­sed, by a Pastour or Teacher, they saying Yea, or nodding with the head to some questions imposed upon them, or having others to doe it, in their behalfe.

I doe not thinke it strange, that hee could not prevaile (as hee sayth) with M ^r. Davenport by such conference in the point: for in truth, as this allegation, so is the rest there of his talke a rope of sand, as an overblowne bladder that will burst of it self, and vent the wind thereof without pricking. And thus much for this Section.

SECTION V.

WHereas M ^r. Paget hath so often called upon me by name, to proove the Protestation published against him; to wit, that hee hath bene many wayes injurious to our Congregation. My purpose is (by the Lords assistance) in this, and the following Sections; to set downe the same. And because all our troubles, haue proceeded (as it were) from two causes; viz. the Baptisme of Non-members, and the denying of the Churches power. I shall therefore speake of these two things, the more fully. And first of the Baptisme: Now the reasons which I haue against it, are these.

SECTION VI.

HOwsoever I could be well contended, in these our diffe­rences, to deale with Mr. Paget by the Scriptures alone, as the booke of all truth; knowing (as Augustine De Doct. Christ. l. 2. c. 9. sayth) that all things, concerning faith and manners, are contained in them. Not­withstanding [Page 64]in regard hee Pag. 15. vainely boasteth, to be caried away with the streame of the Learned, who concurre in judgement with him, &c. I haue thought good to make inquirie about the opinions of men, in this matter, betwixt us; as being loth, hee should oppresse the truth, and make all men afraid of it; by making them beleeve, that is desolate, and forsaken of all freinds.

Beginning therefore with our writers: I judge it meet and convenient, to alleadge in the foremost place the mature sentence of Maister Cartwright; In his Reply to D. Whitgift Pag. 172. l. 1., hee writes thus: I doe see that Maister Doctor doth make of the Holy Sacra­ment of Baptisme (which is an entry into the house of God, and whereby the familie of God must onely Note that. enter) a common passage, whereby hee will have cleane, and uncleane, Holy, and prophane; as well those that are without the Covenant, as those that are within to passe by; and so maketh the Church no Houshold, but an Inne to receive whosoever commeth Iust so doth M ^r. Paget. I will answer therefore all most in as many words, as the questions be asked, If one of the Parents, be nei­ther drunkard, nor adulterer, the child is holie, by vertue of the Cove­nant, for one of the Parents sake. If they be both, and yet not obsti­nate in their sinne, whereby the Church hath not proceeded to excom­munication (themselves yet being of the Church Note.) their child cannot, nor ought not to be refused. Againe a few lines after, speaking of Papists and other ungodly men: Hee affirmeth absolutely, that their children ought not to be baptised.

In the next place wee will consider the Authour of a certaine Booke, Pag. 111.112. entituled: The Covenant betweene God and man; hee there maintaineth this point, which wee here professe: Baptisme (sayth hee) is to be administred to them onely, that are in the Covenant, and that the Reader might understand, whom hee meanes to be in the Covenant: Hee addeth immediatelie; They are such as professe the faith, joyne themselves together in a fellowship, craue to have their names enrouled, and registred in the Church, and so partake of the manifould graces of God, which are distributed therein.

To these wee will adde Maister Viret Ground. Reli. p. 230., a rare light of the Gospell; and partner with Mr. Farell, in planting the Church at Geneva, before Calvin came there. None (sayth hee) are to be baptised, but the children of the faithfull and beleevers: all except [Page 65]these, are to be instructed in the doctrine, before they be admitted thereunto.

Piscator likewise is as plaine as can be. They onely (sayth hee) are to be baptised, which belong to the Church: On Mat. ch. 28. Obse. in v. 19. For as in old time they circumcised the children of the Iewes, because they belonged to the Church, and covenant, so now, &c. Mr. Fenner Doct. of the Sacra. sayth the very same, so Paraeus In Mat. 3.5., Erastus De excom. p. 18.24., Melancton. Loc. Com. pag. 383. Keckerman System. Theol. l. 3. p. 453. speaking of the lawfullnes of the baptising of infants; gives this as the reason of it; viz. because they are members of the Church. The like saying wee find in a Booke, named a generall confession of Christian Churches. Because God receiveth into his Church, the children with the fathers: Wee say by the authoritie of Christ, infants begotten of faithfull Parents, ought to be baptized. Also Beza In 1. Cor. 7.14. sayth, Such as doe permit, all children to be baptized, doe a thing unheard off, in the primitive Church. Neither may Tertullians testimony be omitted, speaking (as Iunius interprets him) of such children as were stran­gers from the Covenant of God. Let them come when they are growne to yeares: Let them come when they have learned, and are taught wherefore they come; Let them then be made Christians, when they can know Christ.

Moreover this is the unanimous confession of all the Reformed Churches, to wit, that Baptisme appertaineth to such infants, as are in the Church, and borne of beleevers. And for this reason (they say) they administer unto them the seale of the Covenant; viz. because with their Parents, they are received into the Church. Thus write the Churches of Saxonie Harm. Conf. Art. 18., Bohemia Chapt. 12., France Art. 35., Scotland Harm. Conf. p. 24., Hel­vetia Art. 20.21, and Belgcik Art. 34.

Object. 1. But this thing hath been in these Countries, a long time practised; and therefore it is not meet, that so ancient a cu­stome, should be laid downe.

Answ. 1. When the truth is knowne (sayth Augustine L. 2. Ep. ad. Gaudent.) let custome give place unto it. For Ambr. l. 4. Virg. wee must not allwayes imitate what­soever our Elders have allowed, but try by the Scriptures, whither the things are good, which they allowed. And thus doe these Churches A generall Confess. of Christ. Church. in their writings professe to the world; that they judge it of small force in controversie of Religion, to be urged with the bare sentenoes of Fathers, or with the Decrees of Councills, much lesse with received [Page 66]custome, or with continuance of time; For wee admit (they say) no other judge, in matter of faith, then God himself, pronounced in his Word.

2. By this custome, they give the Anabaptists great advantage; and nihilate the best argument, which our Divines use against them, for the lawfullnes of baptising of infants. And that this is so, let it be observed; that the Reason, which they, in this point, doe stick most too, is this, namely, that children of Christians, by the same war­rant Calv. in Mat. 18. v. 10. Gerhard. Harm. Eu­ang. c. 12. pag. 352. Cent. 1. l. 2. c. 4. p. 355. D. Willet on Rom. 6. p. 303. Cartwr. Christ. Rel. c. 37. p. 223., are now to be baptized, that the infants under the Law were circumcised. Now I haue prooved before; that no infant under the Law, was to be circumcised, except hee were a member of that visible Church; seeing therefore they leave this patterne; it must follow (as I sayd) that they make the argument voyd, and of no effect; and so refute their owne writings, and destroy againe the things, which they haue builded.

3. Seeing (by comparing their practise, with their profession) they are not so true to their owne grounds as they ought, this cu­stome becomes the greater blot and dishonour unto them. That they are not true to their grounds, I have manifested before. To which this further may be added. In a Synod held at Dort Anno 1578. it was there agreed, that all Parents before they brought their children to be baptized, should got unto the Ministers or Elders, that so they might give notice unto the Church, whose child it was, that should be baptized. Now for what end, should the Parents be enjoyned, to acquaint the Church Officers with this thing; un­lesse their meaning was, that none but members children, should be baptised. If they had intended, that things should be, as they are now: (baptise all brought to the Congregation) then truely (with reverence be it spoken) they made a very unnecessary article; for what need is there, of telling the Church, whose children they are, if all brought there must be baptised. Lastly, let it be conside­red, whither the unsound doctrine, of the Papists, get not counte­nance by this custome, who teach Aegid. To­piar. in Epist. & Euang. p. 293. that Gods commaundements, must sometime, give place unto mens traditions.

Object. 2. Compassion towards infants, mooveth many Mini­sters to baptise them.

Answ. Wee may not doe any thing against the expresse will of God, under a pretence to shew mercy unto others 1. King. 20.42.; that pitty, which the godly are to manifest, must be rightly-bowelled 1. Pet. 3.8, that is, commaunded of God, both for the matter and manner of it. It is well knowne, that Origen August. de Civit. Dei lib. 21. c. 17, through to much compassion of the wicked, thought that the Divels themselves should be saved at lenght; unlesse men therefore, are carefull to set bounds unto their affections; their affections will lead them bejond their bounds.

To conclude this point; my hearts desire is, that every godly Minister, would be pleased, duely to regard these things. It was no dishonour unto Iob, that hee tooke the councill of his hand-maid. Neither did it darken Apollos reputation, that hee learned some thing of Aquila and Priscilla. A wise Generall of a feild, dispi­seth not the advise of the meanest souldier, in matters of greatest waight. Wee are told of a Papist Picus Mi­rand. an Papa sit su­pra Concil., that wee ought to beleeve a simple plaine Husband man, &c. if hee speake the truth. For my part, I should not presume to commend, what I haue said, to their judicious consideration, unlesse I had by diligent inquiry first; seene the same to be a truth; and so setled my conscience in the certainty of it.

SECTION VII.

TO let his scoffes alone, which hee merrily puts forth in pag. 71. 72. I will here give him a direct answer, unto the thing which hee there demaundeth; that is: What that due power is, by which wee would have the Church to be gouverned, and unto which wee would willingly be subjected. It is that Polity-Ecclesiasticall, which the Lord Iesus, the King of his Church, hath ordained in the New Testament; and given unto all the Churches of his Saints; whereby they are to chuse, and call into office, such as are fit, and exercise all other spirituall ordinances, in, & among themselves, im­mediately from him. This gouvernment wee hold, to be the per­fection of all, as comprehending in it, whatsoever is excellent in all other bodies politicall; As man being the perfection of all creatures, comprehends in his nature, what is excellent in them all: Having being with the elements; life with the plants; sence with beasts, and with the Angells reason.

Those which haue written, about the Politike gouvernment of common-wealths; as Aristotle L. 5. Pol. c. 1. & l. 3. c. 11., Herbertus L. 1. Hist. Pol., Tolosanus Lib. 4. c. 5., Bodin L. 2. c. 7. & l. 6. c. 74., Iunius Par. 1. Qu. Pol. Qu. 4., Danaeus L. 4. Pol. c. 5., Richterus Dict. axim. 63., Althusius C. 32. Pol., Contarinus Hist. Venet., & others doe mention, three kindes, as lawfull and good. Monarchicall, Aristocraticall, and Democraticall. Now all these three formes, (as the Learned D. Whita. cont. 4. Q. 1 pag. 14. Refut. D. Down. Serm. l. 2. par. 2. pag. 106. Pet. Mart. loc. com. Clas. 4. c. 5. pag. 783. Keckerm. System. S.S. Theol. lib. 3. p. 400. judiciously observe) haue their places in the Church of Christ. In respect of him the head, it is a Monarchy, in respect of the Eldership, an Aristocracy, in respect of the body, a popular state.

Further I doe affirme; that this Ecclesiasticall gouvernment, is unchangeable, ordinary, best, and perpetuall; common to all true Churches, and unto which all estates must be subject, as brethren; so every officer likewise: And good reason too, for it is a matter of faith; a point of the Gospell, yea of the substance of it; and necessa­ry to salvation, so farre I meane, as other of Gods ordinances. But not to speake any more of the necessity, and excellency of this Church Gouvernment, (there being in print many learned Trea­tises of it) I will here lay downe my reasons to proove the former Assertion; viz. that every particular visible Church, hath from Christ absolute & intyre power, to exercise, in, and of herself, everie ordinance of God; and so is an independent body, not standing under any other Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of it self. And this I will doe, if God permit.

SECTION VIII.

THe allegations of the Learned, which I purpose here to set downe, shall be taken, 1. From Papists. 2. Lutherans. 3. Cal­vinists. 4. English Conformists. 5. The Non-Conformists. 6. Ancient Writers: And lastly the Confession of Reformed Churches.

Howsoever Romes-Champions Bellarm. de verb. Dei l. 3. c. 5. Rhem. in Mat. 18.17. & 1. Cor. 5.2. Aegid. Topi. Conc. in Ep. & Euangel. p. 280. Stapl. de auth. Eccl. cont Whita. c. 1. c. 1. Sect. 5. will haue none now, to meddle with Church-Gouvernment, but Preists, Bishops, Prelates, &c. yet they doe acknowledge, that in the primitive Church, according to the precept of Christ in Mat. 18. offenders, after the first and se­cond admonition, were brought to the whole Congregation: met in one place together: that is, the Christians with their Bishop, or Pa­stour; and there, if they continued impenitent, by the consent and approbation of all, they were excommunicated by the Minister Sculting. Hier. Anar. l. 11. p. 134. Marke (I pray thee Reader) the marvelous efficacy of the truth, which forceth a testimony thereof, even from them, that are to it, the greatest enimies. It is here acknowledged (as the truth is) the right of Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment, at first was in the body of every particular Congregation; there lay the due power: I doe not say chiefly, but wholy; so that what spirituall power is now assumed above this: whither it be Papall, or Episcopall, whither it be Classi­call, or Synodall, they are, humane ordinances, and apparent vio­lation, of a divine institution.

Others of them speake Saravia cont. Bez. pag. 62. Schol. Paris. in Pol p. 6. as plaine: All Ecclesiasticall authority, primarily, properlie, and essentiallie belongeth to the Church, to the Officers instrumentallie Ministerially, and so farre onely, as it respe­cteth the execution of it. Here is nothing sayd to justify Ministers, in taking more authoritie, to themselves, then they grant their con­gregations; but a testimony to the contrary; For what they doe, is onely Ministerially; as the servants of the Church; and therefore a most unseemelie thing (without the Churches fore knowledge, li­king and consent) to make acts or decrees; but more, to bind men to the keeping thereof, whither they will or no.

To these wee will adde Alphonsus L. 2. c. 24. de inst. Har. de Costro and Franciscus Victoria In relect. de potest. Eccl. Qu. 2., the Maister of Canus; both these affirme, that all Bishops [Page 79]doe receive jurisdiction and power immediately from God. If so, then one needs not to seeke anothers authority; for every one in his owne Church, may lawfully administer all Gods ordinances, whi­ther others, otherwhere doe like or not. Thus God, who brought light out of darkcnes; ordered these mens tongues, to give witnes unto his truth.

Neither may Cusanus De concor. Cathol. l. 1. c. 11. &c. 14.15.16. words be unremembred; who speaking on this place, To thee will I give the kees, sayth, this promise of Christ, must be referred unto the whole Church. Sanders De visib. Mon. l. 1. c 6., Scul­tingius Hierarch. Anarch. l. 4. pag. 103. and others of them, give the same exposition; viz. that, when Christ promised Peter the kees, hee in person presented the bodie of the Church. According to these mens writing, the power of bin­ding, and loosing, election of Ministers, deposition, and the like, is in the bodie of the Congregation; if so, then Classes and Synods have it not. I mean of right.

Iohn Ferus a Frier of S. Francis Order; but godlier then the Such as Bucanan describeth in his Fran­ciscanus. common sort; intreating (in his Commentaries writen on the Actes) of the example of Peter, how hee was required to render a reason of that, which hee had done; maketh this note upon it: Pe­ter the Apostle, and chiefe of the Apostles, is constrained to give an account to the Church, neither doth hee disdaine it; because hee knew himself not to be a Lord, but a Minister of the Church. The Church is the Spouse of Christ, and Lady of the House: Peter a Ser­vant and Minister; wherefore the Church may not onely exact an account of her Ministers, but also depose them, and reject them altoge­ther, if they be not fit. So did they in old time verie often: But wicked Bishops now will not be reprooved, no not of the Church, nor be orde­red by it; as though they were Lords, not Mlnisters Fer. in Act. 11. What can be more for us then this? For hee absolutely grants us the thing, which wee stand for: that is; that the Church is above her Officers, and therefore may require, when there is just occasion, a strict ac­count of their actions. Yea more, if she find them unfaithfull, (whether it be in carying themselves more like Lords then servants, or in stead of executing the degrees, and sentences of the Church, devise Lawes against her; or in stead of maintaining her right, free­dom and priviledges, seeke to bring her into bondage,) she may put them downe, and place better in their roome.

But it seemes by M ^r. Pagets question in pag. 82. if hee had bene in Peters place, hee would not have had his matter debated and discussed openlie before the whole multitude of the Church; notwith­standing I cannot see, how hee could haue avoyded it, seeing there was then no Classes for him, to haue made his appeale unto.

I could here produce others of them; viz. Gratian Caus. 11. p. 3. 6. Gregorie Lib. 4. Epist. 8.2., P. Aeneas Silvias De gest. Conc. Basil. lib. 1., Pope Anacletus Dist. 21. c. in nov. Test., Sixtus Senensis Bib. San. l. 8. annot. 171., Thomas of Aquine In 4 sent. dist. 2.4. qu. 3. art. 2., Alexander of Ales Sum. Theo. part. 4 qu. 20. me. 5.6., Iohn Scott In Magist. sent. l. 4. dist. 19. art. 1., &c. some affirming that the greatest authoritie is in the Church, that the kees were given to all the Apostles; others that all Bishops are equall in power, and the like. But wee will leave these men, and come to more authenticke witnesses.

It is affirmed by the Centuries of Meydenburg, that from Christs ascension, unto Trajans Cent. 1. c. 4. Cent. 6.7. Col. 591. time, which is about a 100 yeares, everie particular Church was gouverned by the Bishops, Elders, and Deacons of the same. Moreover describing the state of Christian Churches, from Trajans Cent. 2. c. 7. p. 134. 135. raigne unto Severus, (that is, from the yeare of Christ 100 to 195) thus they write: If any read the approoved Authours, of this age, hee shall see that the order of Gouvernment was popular; for all Churches had equall power of teaching purelie the Word of God, administration of the Sacraments, excommunica­tion of Hereticks, and wicked persons, loosing the penetent; the ele­ction and ordination of Ministers, and the deposition of them againe for just cause.

M ^r. Brightman On Rev. ch. 12. pag. 505. 506. comes Lower downe, even unto Constantines time, and is of opinion, that the primitive puritie of Church Gou­vernment, was not yet defloured, with the dregges of mans invention: Neither had Satan brought in Prelaticall pride into the sheep fould of the Lord: but the Pastours looked every one, to the health of his owne Flocke. Hence it appeares, that for the space of 200 or 300 yeares, after Chrlst See M ^r. Ia­cob necess. Reform. pag. 57. &c.; every visible Church, had power, to exercise Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment, and all other Gods spirituall ordi­nances (the meanes of salvation) in, and for it self, immediately from Christ. And this is a thing so certainly true, as I thinke M ^r. Paget himself, will not haue the face to deny it.

What authoritie then (to use anothers B. Bilson agai. Semin. p. 221. speach) had others af­ter the Apostles death, to change the Apostolike Gouvernment? But seeing they haue done it; what must wee doe? Thus? leave their inventions, and returne backe, to the Churches of the Apostolique institution; and from them, take our patterne and platforme, to walke by, and thus God teacheth Eze. 20.18 Exod. 23.2. Mat. 15.24. &c. us to doe: and learned men al­so; viz. Arnobius Lib. 2. con. Gent., Ignatius, Epist. ad Philadil., Iulianus De Bapt. Heret., B. Iewel Defe. Apol. 6. pa. c. 16. div. 2. pag. 762., D. Rainolds Confer. 195.459.. and others. But to goe foreward with our witnesses.

From these, let us ascend to the very first worthies, who haue brought us a great part of the light of the Gospel in this later age, Zwinglius Hee was no Lutheran. and Luther: The first sayth thus Ad Valen. Comp.: Excommunication is not in the Bishops, gathered together in a Synod, but the right and power thereof, is in the Congregation: And therefore according to Christs commaundement in Mat. 18. Offenders ought to be brought to the Church, whereof they are members Art. 31. Explat. Epichirisis de Canon. Miss., and being obstinate by the Church, the Pastour pronouncing the sentence, are to be cut off. Againe concerning calling to the Ministery, hee sayth Ecclesia­stes., The right of election is in the whole Church.

M ^r. Luther, another excellent witnes of Christ, affirmes Tom. 2. pag. 374., that the Church hath the right and power to judge of any doctrine, also of calling the Ministers of the Gospell, or, if they cease to be faithfull, to depose them. But is not this contrary to M ^r. Pagets new opinion? yea altogether: For though a Congregation should haue just cause to put downe some Officers; notwithstanding (by his grounds) if they appeale unto Ministers of other Churches, and they judge them fit to continue in their places, then must they be left alone, how vile soever they are; so that to speake the truth, the power which hee alloweth unto particular Congregations; is just no­thing.

Chemnitius, another famous man, and of rare learning among the followers of Luther, is herein with us likewise; for hee testi­fyeth, that election Exam. par. pag. 226. 227. 228. Harm. in Mat. 18.17, excommunication, examination of sen­tences Exa. Con. Trid. part. 1. p. 3. &c. belong unto the whole Church. Againe observe what hee attributeth in another place to the Congregation; what to the guides thereof: To the first power Exam. c. 6., to the later the administration of it. Melancton Loc. com. tit. de reg. Christ. hath the like distinction. I could here mention many others of them, which consent, with us fully; as Sarcerius In Mat. 18. [Page 82] Brentius Exeges. in Ioh. 12.23., D. Rungius In 1. Cor. 5.3.4., Hunnius In Mat. 16., Osiander Harm. in Mat. 18.17., Salneccer In Act. 6., Pelar­gus In Act. 6. & 14., D. Mylius In 1. Cor 5, Hegendorphin In Act. 14., &c. none of these hold (as Mr. Paget) that particular visible Churches, are noun-adjectives, cannot stand without Classes and Synods; but on the other side, they grant them (I mean to the Eldership and Brethren) right and power, to practise in, and among themselves all Gods ordinances.

For those now, whom (for distinction sake) wee name Calvi­nists; these men (I take it) are the multitude of Godly and learned Ministers, which doe (as hee sayth) agree in judgement and practise, with him.

Now before I come to lay downe their particular allegations, touching our point in controversy: This I desire may be observed; that it cannot be manifested, (as I am perswaded) that there is, among them all, one Authour, which hath in his Commentaries on the Scriptures, taught the doctrine maintained by M ^r. Paget here against us. It is true, some of them, grant to the Eldership greatest authority; others to the body of the Congregation: Notwithstan­ding, none haue bene so erronious, as to say, that the whole Church (I meane Officers and Brethren) wants authority to per­forme in, and for it self, all Church-services. Now for the Au­thours.

Peter Martyr Class. ch. 5. sect. 9. in his common places, making the Church a Monarchy, in respect of Christ, an Aristocracy in respect of the Elders; addeth also, that because there are matters of great weight, and importance, referred unto the people, as excommunication, abso­lution, choosing of Ministers, and the like; it hath also a considera­tion of a popular gouvernment. Of the same judgement was Iu­nius Eccl. l. 3. c. 1., The whole Church (sayth hee) ought to chuse, that is, the body consisting of the Eldership and people, by equall and common voyces. This is the right manner of choosing Ministers.

With them joynes Musculus Com. Pl. elect. Mini., Viret Groung. Relg. l. 3. ch. 1., Bullinger Decat. 5.4., Danaeus In Tim. 5.22., Gualter Hom. in Act. 13.2. & 13.22., Sybrandus Respons. ad Hug. p. 159, D. Mornaeus Hist pa. 542. &c., Morell Tom. 4. fol. 534., Tilenus Respons. ad Com. La Vat. Qu. 8. & Epist. 14, &c. all these, I say, doe directly affirme the same thing; viz. that all parti­cular visible Churches, haue full power to ordaine and chuse among themselves fit Ministers. Neither can it be gathered (to my know­ledge) anywhere in their writing, that unto a full and complete calling of Church Officers; any more Ecclesiasticall authority and [Page 83]power is required, then that, which Christ hath set in every Con­gregation, distinctly and apart.

To the same purpose they write, about excommunication, and the absolution, or the reconciliation of the excommunicate; those are actions (they say) common to the whole Church, and not of any private person, or persons.

Bastingius Catechism. Quaest. 85. speaking of the difference, betweene the two kees, that of preaching, and the other of discipline; placeth it in this: that the former, which is the preaching of the Gospell, is committed to the Ministers; the other because it appertaineth to the Discipline of excommunication, is permitted to the whole Church.

To him wee will adde Ursinus Catech. p. 799.800. print. at Ox­ford An. 1587., who teacheth thus: Christ in these words Mat. 18.17. If hee refuse to heare the Church, &c. expresly commaundeth all, whosoever (being after this sort admonished by the Church) will not repent, to be, by the common consent of the Church excommunicated, untill they repent. And whosoever are excommunicated, they againe professing, and shewing in their actions amendment, are altogether in like sort, received into the Church, as they were exiled from it: Namely by the judgement of the Elders, by the consent of the Church, and the authoritie of Christ, and the Scrip­ture. And that denuntiation, whereby one is excommunicated, is not in the power of the Minister of the Church, but in the power of the Church, and is done in the name of the Church, because this com­maundement, was given by Christ unto the Church. For hee saith ex­preslie: Tell the Church. And of this judgement is Piscator In 1. Cor. 5. Obs. 1., Calvin Inst. 4.1.15., Paraeus In 1. Cor. 5.5., Keckerman System. Theol. l. 3., Hermingius In 1. Cor. 5, Tossanus Comm. in 1. Cor. 5., Pola­nus Synt. Theo. l. 7. c. 18., Hyperius Comm. in 1. Cor. 5., Praedirius In 1. Cor. 5., Munster In Mat. 18.17., Danaeus In Mat. 18., Oecolampa­dius In Mat. 18., Beza Annot. in 2. Thess. 3.14., and others.

And now Mr. Paget what thinke you of these men? were they not learned and Godly Ministers; Reverend and judicious Divines? Are they not authenticke witnesses? If you confesse it; then marke what followes; viz. your position that particular Congregations must stand under other Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves; is hence condemned, by a jurie of more then 24 men, of your owne chusing; for an errour and untruth: The reason is; because these affirme (I say all of them) that every particular Eldership, with the Churches consent, may lawfully proceed among themselves to [Page 84]the excommunicating of offenders, whensoever there is necessary and just cause. Neither doe they say a word; that it is a Divine institution, that the Ministers of one Congregation, must first aske the leave and consent of other Ministers, before they can lawfully administer this ordinance of God.

And therefore I make some question, whither you haue not wronged this multitude of learned and Godly Ministers; in repor­ting things, of them to the world, which they hold not.

And I haue the more reason thus to thinke, considering what M ^r. Bucer In Mat. 16.19., and P. Martyr In 1. Cor. 16.3.15. write; (two great lightes that shined sometime in England) to wit, that Ecclesiasticall power and govern­ment is in the whole Church; but the authority onely of administration thereof, is the Presbyterie and Bishops: So as in old time at Rome the power was in the people; direction in the Senate. But of this sort of testimonies enought is spoken, wee come therefore now to the next.

Touching the English Conformists, the formablest of them, are for us, in this point. B. Whitgift In his de­fenc. ag. T.C. p. 180 182. confesseth, that in the Apostles time, the state of the Church was popular. And two pages after, I call it popular (saith hee) because the Church had interest almost in every thing. VVith him D. Bilson Perpet. Gouvernm. c. 15 p. 361 agrees, and writeth thus: In the primitive Church, the people did propose name, elect, and decree, as well as the Clergie, and though the Presbyterers had more skill to judge; Yet the people had as much right, to chuse their Pastour: and if they most of them did agree, they did cary it away from the other. Againe chap. 7. pag. 90., Marke well (sayth hee) the ordaining of the first Dea­cons, they were chosen by the people.

M ^r. Paget in pag. 22. doth acknowledge, that Christ hath appointed but one order, for the choose both of Pastour and Deacon. As hee speakes there, the truth: so by it, hee quite overthrowes his owne cause; for if Pastours must be chosen the same way, that Dea­cons are; and they (if the Apostles precept be kept) chosen by the free consent of the Congregation, wherein they are to administer; then how comes it to passe, that Classes and Synods, should haue more authority then the people; and may (if they will) disanull, whatsoever the others doe herein.

I know what the Papists and Hierarchy say, to justify their ta­king away, from particular Congregations, their due power; and setting up a superiour one in the roome thereof: The first gives this for a reason Sculting. Hierarch. Anacr. l. 11 pag. 134.: The unrulines of the people deserved afterwards to have their liberty taken away. The others say thus: Why doe ye call us back to the primitive Church? As if wee are to be tyed to the first beginnings of things, as if ye would bind little infants in their blan­kets, with swalding bondes? And as if it were not lawfull for us, to change those primitive rudiments, which were not then so proffitable in their first originall, as they seeme to be pernicious at this day. Againe Apolog. for Church Gouvernm. pag. 81., There was some thing ordained by the Apostles, that is no lesse hurtfull for our Churches, then it was behoofull, for those, to whom it was appointed.

Which of these two arguments hee will make use off, I yet know not: One of them I suppose hee will and must. For to say, that this superiour power of Classes and Synods, is Iure Divino, I thinke hee will not any more doe it: There being in the Scriptures, no proofe (yea I may boldly say) nor shew of any proofe for it.

But because I know not, what his answer shall be, I will there­fore say no more for this time; onely I thinke it good, to put him in mind of what Gerson De Vit. spirit. writeth the authoritie of the primitive Church, is above all Churches, and therefore it is not in the power of Pope, Councill, or Church, to change the Doctrines and Traditions, delivered by the Apostles. And so I proceed.

To these wee will adde 4 more conformable Doctors of Eng­land; viz. Whitaker, Bell, Willer, and Taylor. The first affirmeth, De Conc. qu. 5. p. 178 that Ecclesiasticall authoritie, principallie, primarilie, and essencial­ly, belongeth to the whole Church; unto Bishops onely accidentally, and secondarily. So againe De Rom. Pont. cont. 4 qu. 4. c. 3. pag. 562., The chiefe judgement in all crimi­nall cases, is the Churches.

Bell sayth Regiment of the Church. ch. 2 sect. 4., Excommunication precisely and chiefely, pertaineth to the Church; and that she hath authority, to commit the execution thereof to some speciall persons, for that purpose; and chosen for that end.

To the same effect Willet Synops. cont. 4. qu. 4 p. 2.. And Tailor Comm. on Tit. ch. 3. v. 10. p. 712. sayth, that excommuni­cation is the common action of the Church, and not of any private person, or persons.

VVhat more obvious and cleare, by these mens testimonies, then that every particular Congregation hath power, fully in it self, to performe all Gods ordinances. But hath not M ^r. Paget in the meane time, just cause to blush, who denies to the Churches of God, that due power, which the Learned of all professions doe grant unto her.

For the Non-conformists, I have already shewed, that they con­sent fully with us. Pag. 23. Notwithstanding some thing more, I will here speake of them; and the rather, because time was, when M ^r. Pa­get did esteeme them, to be a multitude of Godly and learned Ministers; and was (or at least made a shew hee was) of their judgement and practise.

Hee that reades the controversy betweene Downame and the Replyer, shall there see this very point▪ betwixt M ^r. Paget and us, largely handled. The Doctor stoutly maintaineth M ^r. Paget po­sition; viz. that particular Churches are dependent, and stand under another Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves. The other sayth otherwise, and often affirmeth Li. 2. par. 2. p. 104., that the administration of all Church-matters, at first was in everie congregation, the right in the Church: the execution in the Presbyterie thereof. For this purpose hee instanceth Cenchrea Li. 1. part. 2. p. 22.23.; howsoever it was the port of Corinth, and not farre from it, as Radcliffe or lime House to London, yet it was, a distinct Church, from that of Corinth, and alike indued with full power Note. of Ecclesiasticall gouvernment.

M ^r. Parker speakes downe right in this thing, and prooves by Text of Scriptures; judgement of ancient Fathers, Confession of Protestant Divines, and many unanswereable reasons: that Pol. Eccl. l. 3. c. 6. all Ec­clesiasticall power is alwayes in the whole congregation, from hence it flowes, as from the fountaine, and to the same it returneth as to the sea.

And here by the way, I doe demaund of you M ^r. Paget, seeing every Minister (as the Learned Par. in 1. Cor. 3.2 Park. Pol. Eccl. l. 3. c. 12. Tilen. Specu. Antichri. p. 14. D. Whitak. de con. qu. 5. p. 118. rightly say) is the Churches servant, and under her authoritie, and administreth for her. VVhat warrant then, you and others haue, to make any decree or sentence, against the mind and liking of a whole Church; and to require them to submit thereto. Me thinkes such doing, becomes not servants: And whither this be not, to be Lords over Gods Heritage, (contrary to [Page 87]Peters charge) I desire the humble and Godly to consider.

In Title page.Vnto these wee will adde the Authour of the English Purita­nisme; a Booke (as the Publisher reports) containing the maine opi­nions of the rigidest sort of those that are called Puritaines He meanes the foreward professours, which stand out against the Cere­monies., in the Realme of England; among other truths.

1. They hold and maintaine that every company, Congre­gation, or Assembly of men, ordinarily joyning together in the true worship of God, is a true visible Church of Christ, and that the same title is improperly attributed, unto any other convocations, Synods, Societies, combinations, or Assemblies whatsoever.

2. They hold that all such Churches or Congregations, com­municating after that manner together, in Divine worship, are in all Ecclesiasticall matters equall, and of the same power and authority, and that by the word and will of God, they ought to have the same spirituall Priviledges, Prerogatives, Officers, Administrations, Orders, and formes of Divine worship.

3. They hold that Christ Iesus hath not subiected any Church or Congregation of his, note this. to any other superiour Ecclesia­sticall Iurisdiction, then unto that which is within it self: so that if a whole Church, or Congregation, shall erre in any mat­ter of faith or Religion, no other Church or spirituall Church-Officers, have (by any warrant from the Word of God) power to censure, punish or controule the same; But are onely to ad­vise them: and so to leave their soules to the immediate iudge­ment of Christ, and their bodies to the sword of the civill Magistrate, &c.

4. They hold that every established Church, ought (as a speciall prerogive, wherewith shee is indued by Christ) to have power and liberty, to chuse their owne spirituall and Ecclesia­sticall Officers, &c.

5. They hold that if in this choyse any particular Churches [Page 88]shall erre, that none upon earth, but the Civill Magistrate, hath power to controule, or correct them for it, &c.

6. They hold that the Ecclesiasticall Officers and Mini­sters of one Church, ought not to beare any Ecclesiasticall office in another, but ought to be tyed unto that Congregation, of which they are members, and by which they are elected into office, &c.

There is nothing here sayd, but many others of our learned Country-men, have sayd the like, as D. Ames Casconsc. l. 4. c. 29., M ^r. Banes Dioces. Triall. con­clus. 4., M ^r. Bates Pag. 66., M ^r. Fenner Against Bridg pag. 15.16., M ^r. Vdall Demonst. Discipl. pag. 24.25., &c.

In the English Church at Franckford in Queene Maries dayes, it was agreed upon, that Discours of troub. Frank. pag. 115. the Ministers and Seniours, seve­rally and iointly shall have no authority, to make any man­ner of Decrees, or Ordinances, to bind the Congregation, or any member thereof: But shall execute such ordinances, as shall be made by the Congregation, and to them delivered. Againe, None shall be excommunicated, untill the matter be first heared by the whole Church. That the Ministers and Se­niours, and every of them; be subiect to Ecclesiasticall disci­pline, as other private members of the Church be.

Neither shall Mr. Hookers In his answer to M ^r. Pagets 20. quest. Answ. 11. Testimony be unremem­bred; who affirmeth, that a particular Congregation, may lawfully and without sinne, call a Minister, without or against the approbation of the Classis. And hee gives this reason for it: They which had complete and perfect Ministers be­fore any Classis; had power, fully to call them: But a parti­cular Congregation, had perfect and complete Ministers, per­fectly and completely called, before any Classis. Ergo, &c.

Thus Reader thou mayst perceive, that M ^r. Paget hath left the way of Non-conformitie, yea and shewes himself to it, a great ad­versary. Indeed so sore a one, that in his own words I may truely say; As Herod to kill one infant, Pag. 73. spared not to kill a multitude of [Page 89]other infants: so hee, that hee might undermine us, and blow us up, into the ayre, hee cared not, nor spared not with the gunpowder of his fiery contention and reproaches, to blow up with us, a multitude of Godly and learned Ministers, being of the same iudgement.

Howsoever I haue mentioned already some testimonies of the most ancient times, after the Apostles downeward, even while any soundnes of the Gospel did shew it self in the world. Notwithstan­ding, that this right and due power of the Church, for which wee stand; may not be thought a Noveltie, (as M ^r. Paget jestingly intimates) and so unbeseeming Christians to embrace it. I haue thought it convenient, to write some thing further herein; that is, to shew that the best approoved Authours, after the Apostles, are di­rectly with us, in this thing also: affirming, that every particular vi­sible Church of Christ, hath power to exercise Ecclesiasticall gou­vernment, and all other Gods spirituall ordinances, in and for it self immediately from Christ. And this (God willing I will doe) in order, according to the times in which they lived.

To begin first with Ignatius, (who was, as some ‡ thinke, Euseb. l. 3. c. 22. Pa­stour of the Church at Antioch) in his writings wee find it mani­fested, that it was then Anno 90. the manner of visible Churches, to come together in one place Ad Phila­delp. ad Magnes. a Trall., to worship God, having Bishops, Elders and Deacons unto their Officers, whom the people free­ly choose by voyces, or lifting up of hands. Is it not hence ap­parent, that Congregations in this age, were free, and could exercise among themselves, all Gods ordinances.

Tertullian relating the manner of Christian Assemblies in his time Anno 200, sayth, Tertull. Apol. c. 29. They came together into one Congregation, for to pray unto God, for to reherse the Divine Scriptures, and with holy Words to nourish faith, stirre up hope, and fasten confidence. And they used exhortations, reproofes and divine Censure.

Origen In Iosu. Hom. 7. Anno 225. writes much to the same purpose: Such as were brought in the third place, for sinne unto the Congregation: if [Page 90]they stood obstinate, by the iudgement of the whole Church were excommunicated from the body, the Elders of the Church pronouncing the sentence. Observe here, hee sayth not, that the matter was caried to a Classis, and there first determined, &c. but names onely the Congregation, and Elders thereof; notwithstan­ding had there bene any such superiour judicatorie Assembly, is it li­kely hee would haue omitted it, and mentioned a subordinate and inferiour one.

Cyprian Bishop of Carthage Anno 225 Cypr. l. 3. Epist. 14. & 10. sheweth how causes were not handled, before the Elders, but the whole multitude, without whose consent also no thing was done. And speaking of calling to the Mi­nistery, hee sayth Li. 1. Ep. 4, the people have power principallie to chuse wor­thy Ministers, and refuse unworthy ones. VVhat can be more full and absolute to our purpose then this?

Eusebius Anno 305 testifyeth that the Churches of the most famous Ci­ties, were in their constitution first; but one ordinary constant Congregation, as Ierusalem Eus. l. 3.11., Ephesus L. 3.28., Alexandria 3.13., Hierapo­lis 4.1., Corinth 3.32., Sardis 4.22., &c. This being so, then it followes, that primitively they were independent; and stood not under any other Ecclesiasticall authority; out of themselves.

Athanasius often sayth, that Anno 330 Epist. in pers ad Or­thodox. & Eist ad Soli. vit. dege. & Epist. con [...]. Nicae. c. 9. Eccl. Hist. elections, excommunications, &c. according to the Apostles precept, ought to be done in the publicke Congregation by the Ministers, they taking first the peoples voyce or consent.

To these wee will adde Epiphanius, Ierome, Ambrose, Cyrill, Hillarie and Greg. Nazienzen; writers in one age Anno 380. Touching Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment, these to this purpose speake: Particular Churches may lawfully ordaine their owne Bishops without other Presbyters assisting them Epiph conc. Haer. 73.; and among them­selves excommunicate offenders Id. l. 1. Haeres. 30. To. 2. haer. 5. In every Congregation there ought to be a Senate or Assembly of Elders Ieron. ad Gal. qu. 10.. The power of chusing them, is in the people Ad Rustic. Hill. ad Const. Augu. Ciril in Ioh. 20.21., these with spirituall bridles order men Amb. Off. l. 1. c. 1. Nazia [...]z. in Orat. f [...]r. de patr., &c.

VVhat more certaine, then that the thing, for which wee stand, is here justified by all these Ancients. They haue not writen disho­norably of the Churches of God; sought to disable them, from pra­ctising [Page 91]Christs ordinances; subjected them to other Ecclesiasticall authority, out of themselves: But contrary wise acknowledged (as the truth is) that every particular Congregatiō, hath an intyre jurisdi­ction, within it self, and so power & liberty to chuse her owne Offi­cers, excommunicate offenders, and the like: I say without the ap­probation of Classis, yea against it; if there be just cause.

There are others besides, which beare witnes to this truth; viz. Augustine Li. 1. c. 17 de doct. Chr., Chrisostome De Sacerd. l 3. c. 4., Basil In Constit. Monach. l. 4.14. & 6.2. & 7. c. 35., Socrates Lib. de Offic. Isidorus Ad Eugen., Ber­nard Conci Cart. 3. Can. 22. Nicen. Conc. 330. Concil. Con­stantinop. Anno 682., &c. Moreover some Councells haue granted so much; and Christian Emperours Distinct. 61. cap. Sacror. Codex de Episco. l. 38. & 29. by their Lawes confirmed it. Of all which it may be, another time wee shall haue occasion, to speake more fully.

Touching Reformed Churches; If wee may take the Confession of their faith, for testimony, then surely wee haue their consent also with us. The Confession of the Bohemian Churches Harm. Conf. ch. 14 hath these words, The keyes (that is Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment) are given in trust, and graunted to the Pastours, and to each severall Ecclesiasti­call Societie, (that is, ordinary Congregation) whither they be small or great. To this the Churches under the Palsgrave Publicke Catechism. in the end of part. 2. likewise con­sented.

For election of Ministers, the Helvetian Art. 16.17. Confession sayth, It is right when it is done by the Churches voyce giving, and the laying on of hands of the Minister. The Confession of the French Art. 30. Chur­ches is the same; so Auspurge Art. 14. Also the publicke order set forth in these Low-Countries Art. 31., accordeth therewith. The Synod of Middelburgh 1581. hath these words, Let the election of Ministers, be in the power of the Church, and let it be done by voyces publickely in the Temple. The Synod of Tilleburgh in Nasovia, determined the like, as Zepperus Polit. Eccl. in fine. writeth.

There is extant a publicke order, published in Middelburgh Anno 1602. agreeing with all the former; viz. Ministers-must be chosen with the free consent of the Elders, and the whole Congrega­tion. By the like authoritie as they were elected, they may be deposed: But nothing herein must be attempted, without the determination of the whole Church.

VVhat those Synods were, of whom M ^r. Paget speaketh in pag. 66. who decreed that particular Congregations should not pra­ctise [Page 92]among themselves, all Gods ordinances; I doe not yet know; but this I know, that no Reformed Church hath made this an Ar­ticle of their faith. And therefore it is certaine, if such a thing be it was onely the invention of some particular men.

For Conclusion now of this Section: Howsoever I haue alleidged the opinions of many learned men: Notwithstanding it is the word of God, which I appeale unto, for to haue the matter in controversy betwixt us, onely tryed by. and herein I doe no more, then others doe, which know, they haue the truth on their side; namely, to call their opposites unto the Scriptures, and to require of them, to stand unto the undeceiveable sentence and judgement thereof.

Thus the Protestants D. Whita. de cont. qu. 3 c. 3. D. Morton Apolo. Cath. p. 2. l. 1. c. 32. Sutclif. def. Pont. Rom. l. 2. c. 9. p. 132. B. Iew. Apo. par. 2. c. 5. D. 1. doe with the Papists: And the Refor­mists Par. Pol. Eccl. l. 1. c. 24. c Dever. Eccl. Refor. rat. againe with them. And for this purpose hath Zanchy ‡ a worthy speach in his writing unto D. Knols: All things touching worship and Discipline, ought to be examined, not by the uncertain rule, of humans judgement, but by the touch-stone of Divine Scrip­ture.

SECTION IX.

THat those, who haue read M ^r. Pagets Booke, may not thinke that I haue purposely omitted any thing (his jests, slaunders, and unchristian termes excepted) which carieth with it, the shew of any matter, touching the maine points in question. I haue thought good in this Section, to set downe some brief answers unto certain colourable (or rather carnall) pretences, which hee useth in the de­fence of himself and cause.

His first reason is this: If particular Preface. Congregations should not stand under any other Ecclesiasticall authoritie out of themselves, ma­nifold disorders, confusion and dissipation of Churches would follow.

Answ. 1. VVhen God hath established an order for the admini­stration of his owne house, what presumption of man dares change it? Thinkes hee, that hee is wiser, then the Almighty; and can by his foolish way, and devise, bring more peace and profit to Gods house, then the way of the all wise God? But what will not dust and ashes presume to doe, against his maker? And that with shew of conveniency, and to correct and reforme that, which they conceive to be imperfect in his doings? But it seemes in the meane time, [Page 93]that these little consider, how streightly the Lord hath forbidden such practises; and what dreadfull plagues hee threatneth against men for it. As M ^r. Paget therefore wisheth others, to take heed what new formes of Churches, and Church-gouvernment, Preface. they frame unto themselves, or command unto others: So I desire that hee him­self will make a proffitable use of his owne counsell.

2. Be it well considered, that God alwayes abhorreth all good intentes of men, that are contrary to the good pleasure of his will, revealed in his word. The Church (sayth Whitaker De Rom. Pont. cont. 4. qu. 1. p. 16.) must not be gouverned as the wit of man thinketh fit; but as Christ the Lord and King thereof will have it.

3. This objection taken here up by M ^r. Paget, is the very same which the Papists, and those that way affected use, for to haue Ec­clesiasticall Gouvernment, by Presbyters rejected, and their owne Popish Hierarchy, everywhere received and practised; viz. because the putting by of the later, tendeth Sarav. de Tripli. Epis. in Prolog. Sand. de vi­sibl. Monar. l. 5. c. 4. Sculting. Hier. Anarc. l. 10. c. 20. l. 11.119.137 &c. unto all mischief, and the esta­blishing of the former Whitg. Tract. 3. c. 4 div. 4. & divis. 8. pag. 169. Loe compl. Chu. p. 164, causeth uproares in the Church, dissipateth it, and overthrowes all good order therein.

4. If particular Congregations must loose their right and power, because of the offences, which some men haue committed in the exercise thereof. Then surely by the same reason, (if, M ^r. Pagets reasoning be worth any thing) ought Classes and Synods, to lay downe that superiour authority, which they haue taken over many Churches; because they in many things, many times haue offended, in, and about the execution. And this I am sure, no good Christian will deny, I could give divers instances for it; but it needs not: Onely it is not amisse to set downe Nazianzens Epist. 42. ad Proc. words; who was an Elder, or Bishop: I am minded (sayth hee) to shunne all assem­blies of Bishops, because I never saw any good event in any Councell, that did not rather increase, then diminish our evills: Their contention and ambition passeth my speach. VVhither things are better ca­ryed now, then they were in his time, I will not, nor am able to judge.

5. If the infirmities of the people, be a good reason to take away their liberty, in practising among themselves all Gods ordinances: then the contrary vertues, which oftentimes haue bene found in them, (as instaying the rage of the Scribes and Pharisies Mat. 21.26. Act. 3.26.; in pre­ferring, sincere Christians before Arrians Zezo. l. 7. c. 7.; and being themselves [Page 94]sound in the faith Theod l. 2. cap. 7.; when their Ministers haue bene Heretickes:) is a good reason to maintaine their liberty still.

Another thing which hee talkes much off, Pag. 72. is, that the power which the Classis exerciseth, is ancient; and hence names it, the old beaten path, Pag. 105. &c.

Answ. 1. Sundry errours are as ancient as the Apostles time, yea began before the most famous Churches in the world were plan­ted. Therefore as Cyprian Epist. 63. sayth, Wee must not regard what any others did before us, or thought fit to be done, but what Christ did, who was before all.

2. Howsoever M ^r. Paget, for the credit of his cause, names it, the old and ancient Discipline; yet sure I am, to proove it so, hee never will, nor can. There are many (and I thinke hee knowes it) which doe affirme, that the Ecclesiasticall Gouvernment, by Classes and Synods, is a weed that grew many yeares after the Apostles. A late devise Bilson perp. gouver. c. 16. p. 387, and that in all antiquitie, there doth not appeare any one stept thereof Sutclif. Discipl. c. 8. p. 138.; Also that at Geneva, subjecting of Churches to this order first begun Brancroft surv. c. 22. p. 353. Comp. Ch. p. 91. 93. 94.. And before Calvin came there, everie Congre­gation was free in it self Hooke. Ecc. Polit. Pref..

Touching these Assertions: I cannot see how M ^r. Paget, or any other is able to disproove them. It is acknowledged, on all sides, that in the first hundred yeares after the Apostles, Ministers and Brethren of sundry Congregations, met sometimes; to conferre mutually together of common Church-affaires; yet so, as every particular Congregation, had alwayes (as the Centuries Cent. l. 2. c. 4. p. 391. write) power and authority in themselves, to chuse their Officers, reject Heretickes, excommunicate offenders, and the like.

So againe, for a hundred yeares next after; wee read in Eusae­beus L. 3. c. 22. L. 5. c. 16. L. 3. c. 19., Iraeneus L. 3. c. 1.2.3., Nicephorus L. 4. c. 23., and others, that neighbour Mini­sters came often together, when there was any daungerous errour broched, or weighty points to be determined, serving for generall good: but this they did of liberty, not of duety; partly to preserve mutuall society; (as Zipperus L. 3. c. 7. sayth) and partly that they might hereby be the more able, to resist adversaries, as M ^r. Parker Eccl. Pol. p. 329. 330 sayth.

This ancient combination, wee hold to be lawfull and necessary, [Page 95]that is; when there is just occasion: that then Ecclesiasticall Officers and others, doe come together, to conferre of things; yea and con­clude (if they can) what they judge meet and good: Notwithstan­ding whatsoever they doe in such cases, the same is of no force at all, (I mean as to be counted a Church-act, or sentence;) unlesse the Church first know it, and give their free consent unto it; the reason is, because the power and authority, to make Church-acts, is in the body of the Congregation, as wee haue before shewed. As for any other kind of combinations, of many Ministers together, other­wise then wee haue here related; as the word of God, sheweth it not, neither doth antiquity; If by antiquity the first and best ages of Christian Churches be understood.

I will not here dispute how things went, about Constantines time, because as the Learned say; viz. Casaubon Ad Card. Peron. Obs. 4. p. 30. 31, D. Whitaker De Rom. Pont. cont. 4 pag. 5., Mornaeus Hist. Pap. pag. 37. 38., Brightman In Apoc. ch 2 p. 67., and others; that men began then to devise a new order and manner of Gouverning Churches, according as they thought fittest, to agree with the times. And so much wee find te­stified by Cyprian De Lapsis. Epist. l. 4. c. 4., Eusaebius Lib. 8. cap. 1., and Ambrose In 1. Tim. 5.. For the change it self, This new created Discipline, was not Classicall, but rather Episcopall, so that howsoever they are, both children of the earth, notwithstanding this I doe affirme, that of the two, the Hierarchie is the oldest.

And howsoever M ^r. Beza is very streyt to the people; hardly granting the liberty which the very Iesuits Maldon. upon Mat. 18. doe: yet hee is con­streyned to confesse, that the first Deacons were chosen by them, but (sayth hee In respons. ad Tract. de Ministr. Euang. de grad c. 22. fol. 154.155. this manner of election was neither essentiall, nor perpe­tuall. For after when experience taught that confusion and ambition (rysing by the occasion of the multitude increasing) was to be pre­vented: The Synod of Laodicea prudently tooke order by their 13 Canon, that the election of such, as were chosen to the sacred Mi­nisterie, should not be permitted to the multitude or people.

My purpose is not to say any thing now of that Synod: how, of the 59 Canons, mentioned by Gratian Distinct. 16., some are false; others foolish; and many very superstitious. This onely I desire the Rea­der to note, whereas it is here objected, that this Synod, prohibited the body of the Congregation, from using that liberty and power, which they before alwayes had in Ecclesiasticall gouvernment; and gave it (as hee sayth a little after) to assembly of Pastours: By this [Page 96]testimony then, that which I sayd, but now is further confirmed; namely, that the Classicall authority is neither divine nor ancient; for this Synod of Laodicea was held after the death of Iovinian the Emperour: Anno 370. or thereabout.

Thirdly hee pretendeth that the Discipline, which hee standeth for, is a sanctuarie against Tyrannie Pref. and if men had not libertie to appeale unto Classes, they should have cause to bewaile their slaverie and bondage Pag. 83..

Answ. 1. It is a strange course, when there ariseth a controver­sy touching two contrary opinions, which of them is true, and to be embraced; to draw the resolution hereof, to the consideration of the usefullnes of the opinions, or practises questioned. As if, because a thing is usefull, therefore it is to be concluded it is true: And not rather in case, it be found to be true, yea the very truth of God, the rule whereof is Gods word, therefore wee ought to conclude, it is usefull, and be carefull to make such use of it, as wee are com­maunded: But what more common now a dayes, then for me, to obtrude their owne devises upon people, upon a bare pretence of the usefullnes of them in mans judgement: But in the meane time doe not those which take such courses, for the maintenance of their way, manifest hereby, that their cause is desperate, and that it seemes, they haue no grounds, for their opinions out of the word of God I say, when they runne out, unto such divinations as these, for the supporting of their labouring and wavering cause.

As for example, if the Scriptures doe directly teach: That every particular Congregation hath power to exercise Ecclesiasticall Gou­vernment, and all Gods other spirituall ordinances, in, and for it self, immediately from Christ; shall wee not embrace this for a truth, unles it appeare in our phantasie more usefull then the con­trary.

2. Let it againe be observed, that the Papists and Hierarchie, for their Discipline, give the very same reason; viz. to preserve the uni­tie and peace of the Church Duaran. Dist. 8., for the avoyding of sehismes and fa­ction; D. White of the Church l. 3. p. 157.158 that there may be no Tyranny and oppression among Bre­thren Sand. de visib. Mon. l. 5 c. 4. &c. yea the corrupting at first of Church-gouvernment, was done to prevent evill Hieron. ad Engr.; but as one sayth D. Whita. cont. 4 pref. p. 3. the remedie was worse then the desease. And truely, so wee may say of all devises of [Page 97]men, brought into the worship of God; although the Authours doe it to prevent this, or that evill: notwithstanding the invention it self, prooves (and wee haue seene it by experience) more hurt­full, then the thing pretended against.

3. I doe deny that this Gouvernment by Classes and Synods, serves better for the Churches wellfaire, then that, which the Apostles instituted; and the primitive Churches first practised. Wise Politicians in their institutions of Gouvernment, doe hold for an infallible maxime, that to reforme corruptions and abuses in states, a better course cannot be taken, then to reduce things to their primitive originall. Hereto agrees D. VVhites Of the Church l. 2. pag. 49., saying: The first in any kind or sort of things, is truest and best.

4. If it should be granted, that particular Congregations, by this kind of gouvernment, shall haue peace, profit, credit and other worldly respects: yet this is no sufficient reason to induce them to embrace it. For 1. wee must seeke peace by lawfull meanes. 2. Out­ward quietnes, is not alwayes necessary for the Church; the Truth is like unto Camomill, the more you presse it downe, the faster it groweth, and spreadeth further, and smelleth sweeter. 3. Religion can subsist, without externall peace: I say, safely in the midst of contentions. 4. It is better to want this freedom, of which hee speaketh, holding fast the truth; then in sinne to haue it, and perish for it. 5. It is a rule among Lawers Bartol. Distinct. pag. 2., that publicke profit, must not take place against Law; this holds firme, in all cases of Reli­gion. To conclude then, in Nazianzens De Mode­rat. in disceptat. Servand. words: Let no man be wiser then is meet; not more just then the Law, more bright then the sun, streaghter then the rule, nor pretend more obedience then God requireth, &c. This hee speakes of Discipline.

Another of his reasons, is this: Pag 72.153▪ The power for which hee standeth, hath bene determined, limited and agreed upon, in many Nationall Synods. And all Reformed Churches use it.

Answ. 1. It is a received opinion among the Learned, that Councills may erre; yea, and often haue; as I could shew in many particulars. Besides who knowes not, that almost all the Fathers (as they are called) were infected with the errour of Millenaries. And almost all the Greeke writers and Latine, with the doctrine of free-will, merits, invocation on the Saints, and the like. And there­fore [Page 98]as one well sayth Sibrand. Lubbert. de princ. Christ. l. 7. c. 10. p. 694., Wee must not conclude a thing to be Apo­stolicall, because the Church observeth it. And to the same effect write some Papists Tho Aqui in quod l. 9. Art. ult. Abb. Panor. de elect. c. significat..

2. These testimonies are all humaine; and therefore it is enought if wee say, with our Lord Mat. 19.8. From the beginning it was not so; Or as hee sayd once: Woman what have I to doe with thee. So in matters of faith, what haue wee to doe with men. Away with mens writings, (sayth Augustine) let the voyce of God sound unto us: Let the Booke of God, come amongst us; Let us heare what Christ saith, and what the truth speaketh. For our judgements and expositions without these witnesses, have no credit, sayth Origen.

3. This reason, is the same, which the Papists use; viz. the De­crees Whitak. cont. 4. Qu. 5. c. 10. Sarav. de Tripl. Episc. in Prolog. Io. Ainsw. Large writing. 2. of Synods, the opinions of the Fathers, the custome of men, and practise of the Church. But marke what answer our Protestant Di­vines make to it: No D. Rain. Confer. p. 195.257.459. D. Bilson to the Semina. part. 4. pag. 360.300.301.299. D. More. Apol. p. 2. c. 14. Casaub. Epi. ad Per. Car. p. 32.33. humaine proofe is sure in Divinity, truth is not to be tried by consent of Fathers: Never shall they perswade us any thing in matter of Religion, which they cannot proove by Moyses and the Prophets. Make us good proofes out of Scriptures; Otherwise if ye cite, not onely 9, but 9 skore Fathers, wee regard it not. Now this answer will serve me as well; seeing M ^r. Paget and they, doe use one and the same reasoning.

Another objection which hee hath against us; is: Because wee haue not framed our accusation and protestation against him, before this present; seeing the practise hath continued among us many yeares, &c.

Answ. Formy part, I never knew, that our Congregation was in such deepe bondage; untill M ^r. Hookers troubles began; but thought verely, that our owne Eldership, with the Brethren jointly together, had full power among themselves, to practise every ordi­nance of God. And the thing specially, which induced me so to thinke, was his owne words Ar [...]ow against sep. pag. 116., writen to M ^r. Ainsworth; repor­ting how hee was first made our Minister, hee sayth: The Dutch Eldership in this City being desired, hath for their counsell and help in his ordination; deputed three of their Brethren, to assist us in this busines, &c. this they did not, as assuming authoritie Note. to themselves over us: but in our name, and by our request. Being now established, when as of late another Minister was called unto our Congregation, [Page 99]wee used not their help herein as before; but his ordination was perfor­med by our owne Ministerie and Eldership without them.

If the Classis assumed not then, any authority unto themselves over us, how comes it to passe, that they doe it now? Or how will it hang together, that their power is ancient; and yet 20 or 30 yeares past, they used it not. This to me seemes grosse contradi­ction; and that hee eates his owne words, as Saturne did his chil­dren.

But I gesse what hath caused him, to tell two contrary tales; na­mely, the difference of the people against whom hee hath writen. The first were Separatists; and therefore no marvaile though against them hee pleaded for a free Congregation: for hee well knew that unlesse hee went this way to worke; hee should fall with dishonour in the controversie between them. The other are the oppressed and burthened members of the English Church in Amster­dam. Now to keepe these under their burden and oppression, hee sees that hee must let goe his former hold; and on the contrary say, wee are not a free Congregation, but stand under another Ecclesia­sticall authoritie out of our selves.

Thus a good wit will serve a disputant in good stead: for by it (if hee list) hee can as the Poëts fable of their Proteus, turne him­self into all shapes. Like him, who having made an excellent speach in the commendation of justice, afterwards spake as wittily to the contrary: shewing that there was no justice at all in the world. Or like a Gentleman, of whom I haue heard, that in an Assembly of States, such as wee call Parliaments, was absolutely the best spea­ker; yet nothing respected; and that for a most sufficient reason; which was this: They knew full well, hee could speake as well, and as moovingly to that which was quite contrary.

And I willingly professe, that M ^r. Paget hath a rare faculty this way, to turne a thing, which way hee will; and make it say, either I or no, or both when hee pleaseth. Notwithstanding this I must tell him, the very thing which hee speakes off, touching M ^r. Robinsons Booke, is now true, concerning his owne former writing: It is sicke of King Iehorams incurable desease, Arrow pag. 59. the guttes of it fall out day by day; Yea hee openlie pluckes out, some of bowells thereof, with his owne hands.

There are some other objections, of the like nature, which hee useth against us; partly to disgrace our persons; partly our cause; as that wee doe not agree among our selves, touching the due power of the Church: That the practise which wee stand for is Brow­nisme, &c.

Answ. Such cavillations the Celsus pag. 802. Lactant. l. 4. c. ult. Isod. Pelus. Epist. 90. Heathens haue used sometimes against Christian Religion; so Papists Bellar. de not. Eccl. against Protestants; and the like, they Brone. Serm. pag. 103.104. Casend. Answ. to Abstract. p. 210. &c. Whitg. p. 888. Loe comp. cha. p. 47. D. Bridg. l. p. 134. against Reformists. Now I will not stand to make any particular answer hereto, because the folly and vanity of it, is suffi­ciently shewed by others Iew. Def. Apol. p. 3.8.2.1. Whitak. cont. 4. qu. 5. c. 8. Sutclift. de Eccl. p. 109. D. Mort. Apol▪ 1. l. 2.; who haue had occasion hereto-fore to reply unto such idle objections.

This onely for conclusion, I desire, may be noted; that whereas hee seekes to disgrace Christs Gouvernment, and to haue his owne honoured and embraced; in this hee doth, as one said in Tully of Hortensis, when hee immoderately praysed eloquence, that hee would have lift her up to heaven, that hee himself might have gone up with her. So I perceive M ^r. Paget would faine haue, the Classicall Discipline advanced, that hee by it, might haue worldly credit also.