VVhy come you not to Church?

What should I do there?

VVorship God.

I must worship God as he requireth, ād not as any mortal man requireth.

True, but the worship that wee require you to offer vp, is the vvorship, God requireth.

If it be so, I wil withal willingnes assēt vnto it, but my conscience must be satisfied there of by the word of truth, that I may have faith in it, other wise it is my grevious sai. Rom. 14.23. For I may not beleeve it so to be because you affirme it.

VVell you must go to Church, othervvise you are disobedient to the law, & vvil fall vnder punishment.

But still remember that you would have me worship God as you pretend, therefore let vs agree what worship God requireth: Christ saith. Ioh 4.24. God is a spirit, & they that worship him, must worship him in spirit & truth. Here wee see what worship God requireth, viz: That wee worship him with our soules and Spirits, and also that we worship him according to the truth of his word: And therefore for your booke wor­ship: If it were according to truth, (from the which it is as far as light is from darknes) yet if I cannot offer it vp with my Spirit it is not acceptable to God, but most abhominable.

Well you must come to Church

I pray let aske you a question, do you seeke the glory of God, and the salvation of my soule herein, or your owne obedience?

I seeke the glory of God, and the salvation of your soule, & not my ovvne obedience.

Then manifest it, no by words onely, but by deeds and truth, which if you do, you will not threaten me punishmēt to cause me to come, but with meekenes and patience satisfye my conscience by the word of truth, (for this is the duety of the Minist. of Christ. 2. Tim. 2.24.) that I may come with a willing mynd, so shall I be accepted. 2. Cor. 8.12. Psal. 110.3. For if by threatning me punishment as imprisonment, banish­ment, or death, you cause me to bring my bodie, and not my spirit or soule, so shall I come neere to the Lord with my lips, when my hart shall be far from him, which he accompteth vaine worship and hipocrisie. Mat. 15.

I perceive what you aime at, you would have none brought to Church, but such as come willingly of themselves, so should every man worship God as him­self pleaseth.

Your conclusion I aime not at, for I ac­knowledg that as there is but one God, so there is but one way of worshipping him, out of the which way, whosoever is ād repēteth not there of shal pay a deare price, and therefore it stādeth all Men vpon not to please themselves in wor­shipping [Page 3] him. But you perceive aright that I aime at this, that none should bee compelled to worship God: but such as come willingly for I will (by Gods assistance) prove most evidētly by the Scriptures, that none ought nor can bee compelled to worship God to acceptance, by any worldly meanes whatsoever.

Prove that.

Wel I prove that I have affirmed, thus: First Heb. 11.6. Without faith it is vnpossible to please God, and Rom. 14.23. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. These two Scriptures prove most evidētly that whatsoever I have not faith in inworshiping God although it were vndoub­tedly true, I may not offer it vp vnto God, for it is displeasing to him, and it is sin against him: as also it appeareth plainely by him, that came into the Kings supper and wāted his wedding garment. Mat. 22.

It is the Kings law that you must go to Church, & therefore you must bee obedient.

The intent of the Kings law is not so, as appeareth both by the statute for the oath of al­legiance, and also by his Ma ^ties. owne words, manifested in his Apologie for the oath of alle­giance, as hereafter is more fullie declared. For if the intent of the law were to make me come to Church to worship God, and not of faith, the intent of the law were to cōpell me to sin, which his Ma ^tie. requireth not.

I deny not but whatsoever is not off Faith is sinne, but vvee vvould [Page 4] have you come to Church, to vvorship God of faith.

It is not so, you regard not whether I have faith or no, for if you did, you would not vrge the Kings law against me, which is but a carnal weapon, and cannot beger faith, ād there fore is no sure ground of faith. For in my obedi­ence to God I must not presume above that that is written. 1. Cor. 4.6. For the VVord of God is the onely ground of faith Rom. 10.17. and therefore if you would have me come of faith, you would onely vrge the law of the King of Kings against mee.

Hath not all the Learned of the Land considered of these things, & set thē dovvne, are such simple men as you likely to see more then all these?

I demaund of you whether they bee not all subject to err as all men are, and therefore I must try their spirits, whether they er or no. 1. joh. 4.1. For I may not hold, either that they can­not err, or that if I find them to err I must obey them notwithstanding, do you not herein teach me that Popish and accursed doctrine, that you invaigh so much against in the Papists, that I must beleeve as the learned of the land beleeves.

I do not hold that they cannot err

Yes you hold either that they cannot err, or if they do err, I must obey them, for if I do not obey them you threaten me punishment.

Nay, but I hold that they being [Page 5] learned do not err, & therefore you must obey them.

Then this is your argument: The lear­ned do not err, and therefore must be obeyed. The 2 bs: and the rest of that rāck are learned ād do not err, ād therefore they must be obeyed: another arg: as vaine as this may be collected from this ground. The learned do not err, and therefore must be obeyed. The Pope and the rest of that rancke are learned, (yea as learned as yours) ād do not err, and therefore they must be obeyed. The one is as true as the other, but both abhominable. If you prove that they that want this learning, must not meddle with the waies of God, but as these learned men teach them, then indeed you said some thinge, but if you cannot, as most certen it is, you cannot. For the word of God is against you herein, then for shame to God and Mē, leave of your cruell per­secuting, for why do you persecute Men that cannot of faith submit to your direction concer­ning the waies of God, vpon which consisteth their salvation if they walke in the true way of faith with love thereof, and their condemna­tion if they walke in by path.

Then I perceive if a mā can pleade that he hath not faith in any thing which the King commaunds he need not be obedient.

Would God all Men could see your dea­ling herein, this is your vsuall course, whē your mouth is stopped by the power of Gods word that you knowe not what to answere, then you [Page 6] runn to the Kings comaund, and so make your matters good, like vnto your predecessors the wicked Scribes and Pharisies, who when our Lord and Maister had stopped their monethes that they had no word of answere, then they sought to make him a trespasser against Cesar, but I have learned in some weake measure, that as there is a Cesar vnto whome of conscience I must be obediēt, so there is another king, one Iesus, that is King of Kings, vnto whome if you will not be obedient in giveing vnto God that which is Gods, he will te [...]r [...] you in peeces, when there shal bee none that can deliver you, & cast you into the lake that burneth with Fire & brimstone for ever more, where th [...]re shalbe no rest day nor night, and therefore agree with this your adversarie quickly, whilst you are in the vvay vvith him.

The power ād authority of the King is earthly, and God hath comaunded me to submit to all Ordinances off Man. 1. Pet. 2.13. [...]4. And there­fore I have faith to submit to what ordinance of Man soever the King comaunds, if it bee an humane Ordinance, and not against the manifest word of God, let him require what he will, I must of cōsciēce obey him, with my bodie goods and all that I have: But my soule wherewith I am to worship God, that belōgeth to another King, vvhose kingdome is not off this VVorld Ioh 18.36. VVhose people must come vvillingly. Psal. 110.3. VVhose vveapons are not carnall but Spiri­tuall. 2. Cor. 10.4. etc.

Is this all the authority that [Page 7] you vvill give to the King?

What authoritie can any mortall Man require more, then of bodie, goods, life, and all that apperteyneth to the outward Man? The hart God requireth. Pro. 23.26. He comaunded to give vnto Cesar things that are Cesars, & to himself the things that are his. Lvk. 20.25. Now if al the outward man bee Cesars, and the inward man too, so that he must be obeyed in his owne mat­ters, and in Gods matters also, then tell vs what shall be given to God? If you or any mā will give him more power or authority then I give him, then you give him more then his Ma ^tie. requireth, as shalbee shewed.

Wee do not say that the King can compell the Soule, but onely the outward Man.

If he cannot compel my soule, he cannot compel me to worship God, for God cannot bee worshipped without the soule. Ioh. 4 24. jf you say he may compel me to offer vp a worship one­ly with my bodie, (for the spirit you confesse he cannot compell) to whome is that worship? not to God. Then consider you who they worship that are thus compelled, (say you by the King.) Let it well be here observed that you make the King a comaunder of such worship, as is not to God, contrary to his Ma ^ties. owne mynd mani­fest in his writings. But this you do, not to ad­vance Gods glory nor the kings honor, but your owne cursed kingdome of darknes, which you hold by flattery ād falshood. For if this cōpelled worship (which is not to God) were takē away then your kingdome would fal to hel frō whēce it came, [Page 8] and therefore all Men map here see it is supported onely by wickednes.

I confesse the Kings authority is earthly, but he is head over the Church vnder Christ.

God forbid that any mortall Man should so equallize himself with Christ, who allone is Head of his church, as the Husband is of the VVife. Ephe. 5 23. And hath left no o [...]e-gecent in that his office, for he is never absent frō his Church. Mat. 18.20. and 28.20. All that any mortal Mā can be, is to be a subject of his Kingdome, for their is but one Lord. 1. Cor. 12.5. & one law-giver Iam. 3.12. And that this is so, his Ma ^tie. con­firmeth by his owne testimony, in his Apologie for the oath of allegeance Pag. 46.47. But as I wel allowe of the Hyrarchie of the church for distjuctiō of orders, (for so I vnderstand it) so I vtterly deny that there is any earthly Monarch thereof, whose word must bee a law, and who cannot err in his sentence by an infallibility of spirit [...]: because earthly kingdomes must have earthly Monarchs, it doth not followe that the church must have a visible Monarch too: For the VVorld hath not one earthly temporall Monarch, Christ is his Churches Monarch, & the Holy ghost his deputie. The Kings of the gentiles reigne over them, but ye shall not be so. Luk. 22.25. Christ did not promisse before his assention to leave Peter with them to direct & instruct them in all thinges, but he promissed to send the Holy ghost vnto them for that end. These are his highnes owne words, where­by it evidently appeareth his Ma ^tie challen­geth no supremacie over the Church, but labo­reth to overthrowe that abhominable exalta­cion [Page 9] of that Man of sin, in the Romish professiō, for Christ hath given no supremacie in or over his Church, to any mortall man, but expresly commaunded the contrary as the place of Luk mencioned by his Ma ^tie. plainely declareth.

His highnes is supreame head and gouvernor over all his subjects bodies and goods, within his dominions, and therein I detest and abhorr all forraigne powers whatsoever.

But now for the thinge in controversie be­twixt you and me, of compelling Men by perse­cutions to do service to God (as is pretended) wherein they have not faith, it shalbe manifest not to be of God, in that Christ Iesus himself, the onely Lord and law-giver to the soule, nei­ther had any such power and authority, neither taught any such thinge to his Disciples, but the contrary. First Mat. 28.18.19. All power is given me in Heaven & in earth. Go therefore & teach all Nations and 2. Cor. 10.4. The VVeapons of our war fare are not carnall, but mighty through God to cast downe Holds. &c. Here wee see Christ hath no Worldly power, nor Worldly Weapons. 2ly. He practised and taught the contrary. VVhen the Samaritanes would not receive him goeing to Ieru­salem. Luk. 9. his disciples would have had fire come downe from heaven & devoured them, Christ rebu­ked them & said, ye knowe not of what spirit ye are, the Son off man is not come to destroy mens lives, but to save them. And the Appostle by the Spirit of Christ: 2. Tim. 2.24. Comaundeth the servants off the lord not to strive, but to bee gentle towards all men apt to teach, suffering the evil men patiently, instructing them vvith meeknes that are contrary mynded, proveing if God at any time vvil give them [Page 10] repentance that they may knowe the truth, & come to amendment out of the Devils snare. &c. These Scriptures need no explanation for this most evident truth.

VVell yet notvvithstanding all this it is manifest in the Scriptures by the example of Thappostle Peter smiting A­nanias and Saphira to death. Act. 5. & of Th-appostle Paul striking Flymas the so­cerer blind. Act. 13 11. And also by deli­vering Hemineus & Alexander vnto Sa­than for the destruction of the Flesh: that punishment vpon the body may bee vsed, & the flesh destroyed: For if it were law­ful for them to smite to death, & the like, though by extraordinary meanes, then it must be lawful for vs by ordinary meanes, since extraordinary meanes now failed, If you say it be not Lawfull for vs, then you must say it was not Lawfull for them, & that vvere to accuse them of laying a false foundation, vvhich none fearing God wil affirme.

I dare not once admit of such a thought as to disallowe the truth off that foundation [Page 11] which th- [...]oposties as skilfull maister builders have said: But for your argument of Peters extraordinary smiting of Ananias and Saphi­ra, he neither laid hand vpon them nor threat­ned them by word, onely declared what should be san them from God, and therefore serveth no thing to your purpose, also that of Paul to Eli­mas, he laid no hands vpon him, but onely de­clared the Lords hand vpon him, and the judg­ment that should followe. If you can so pro­nounce, and it so come to passe vpon any, do it, and then it may bee you may bee accounted maister builders, and layers of a new foun­dation or another gospell. And for Th-appo­stle Paul his delivering Hymeneus and Alexander vnto Sathan. 1. Tim. 1.20. It was not by any temporall sword or power, but even by the power of our Lord Iesus Christ, in his name, by the sword of the Spirit. 1. Cor. 5.4. And this was not extraordinary, but ordinarye to continue in all churches to the end, and not to destroy the out­ward Man, as you teach and practice, but to destroy those iustfull affections, which dwell in the flesh, that so the flesh being mortified, the Spirit may bee quickned and the Soule saved in the day of the Lord Iesus. And whereas you say that as they did it by extra-ordinary meanes so you may do it by ordinary meanes, if you would vse onely those Weapons which Christ commaunded his Disciples to vse in this busines, which are not carnall, wee would agree with you herein. But if your ordinary meanes bee such as Christ never had nor any of his Disciples, then it is a meanes of your owne [Page 12] devisinge, for Christ hath al meanes whatsoever for bringing Men to the obedience of the truth.

Doth not Christ in the parrable Teach that he compelled all to come in?

I demaund of you wherewith doth he compel them? he hath no carnall weapons, doth he not compel them by his word, VVhich is his tvvo edged svvord. Heb. 4 12. Revel. 2.12. Doth he smite the earth vvith any other vveapons then by the breath off his lips. Esa. 11.4.

VVell then you see compulsion may bee vsed.

Yes, I confesse to you such compulsion as much as you will, if whē you have done you wil walke in his steps, who when the Gaderens praied him to departe he left them, and taught his Disci­ples: where they should preach the word of God, iff they would not receive them, that they should shake off the dust of their feet for a witnes against them. Mat. 10.14. Which accordingly they practized Act. 13.51. and 18 6. etc. He never taught them to pull the contrary mynded out of their houses ād put them in prisons, to the vndoeing of them, their Wives and Children: This was Sauls course when he was a blasphemer and persecu­tor. etc. Act. 9.1. etc. Christ taught his Disciples To wait iff at any time God would give the contrary mynded repentance, and not to prevent their re­pentance by seeking their blood.

Indifferent man. I have heard you all this while, and by that I have heard, I see evidētly that none ought to be compelled by any world­ly [Page 13] meanes to worship God, neither can any bee accepted in such worship, in that it is spirituall worship that he accepteth.

Blessed be the Lord, that you see it, I would not you onely, but all Men did see that the sword of the Magistrate and al afflictions proceeding there from are onely vpon the out­ward man and cannot convert a soule from goe­ing astray, nor begett faith it comes by hearing the word of God Rom. 10.17. And therefore is no instrument in this worke. Al that the Magi­strate can do, is to compell me to bring my bodie for except their be a willing mynd which no mā can see, their is no acceptance with God, and therefore it is not Gods glory, nor my acceptāce with him they seeke by forceing me, but meerly their owne obedience to Gods great dishonor; and the distruction of my soule, if I should so do. But iff it would suffice them to bring my bodie, to that they call their Church, and require of me no worship: I will go when they will, onely not when their false worship is performed. For I adhor the accursed doctrine off the Familists herein.

It is a lamentable thinge to consider how many thousands in this nation there be, that for feare of trouble submit to thinges in Religion which they diseprove off.

Oh, whose eies doth not gush out with teares, in the consideration thereoff seeing in all that, God is highly displeased, ād al those vnder the judgments of God everlasting iff they repēt not.

If it were as you would have it, that [Page 14] all Religions should be suffered, how dā ­gerous vvould it bee to the Kings Person & State, what trecheries & treasons would bee plotted?

Indead that is a thing greatly to be su­spected: but if permission of all religions should be clered of that there is no questiō, but it might prevaile with the King and State.

If it be not cleared of that then let al mē abhor it. First: it is the comaundement of him, who is the God not of confusion but off peace & order, and therefore to be obeyed. Mat. [...]3.30. Let the good & bad grovv together vnto the end off the vvorld. Suffering the contrary minded patiently proveing iff god at any time vvill give them repen­tance that they may acknovvledg the truth. &c. 2. Tim. 2.24. Secondly: if the just lawes in that behalf made be but duely executed, which is, that all his subjects should protest their faithful alligeance to his Ma ^ties. person. Crowne and dignity, all that will not be obedient, let them be disposed of at his Ma ^ties. pleasure, and you shall see no such trecheries and treasons practi­ced as hath bene. First for all those that seeke and practice in themselves reformation in Re­ligion, sathan himself cannot tar them with the least jott of trecherie: and for the Papists may it not justly be suspected that one cheife cause of al their treasons hath bene because of al the com­pulsions that hath bene vsed against their con­sciences in compelling them to the worship prac­ticed in publique according to the Law of this Land: Which being taken away, there is no [Page 15] doubt but they would be much more peaceable, as wee see it verified in divers other Nations, where no such cōpulsiō is vsed, for if they might have freedome in their religion, vnto their faith full alligeāce to the King, the feare of the kings Lawes, and their owne prosperity and peace, would make thē live more inoffencively in that respect.

Onely the Papists are dangerous in that some of them hold, that Kings ād Princes that hee excomunicated by the Pope, may be deposed & murthered, by their subjects or any other.

For that damnable and accursed doctrine as wee abhor it with our soules, so wee desire al other may. And therefore all the Lawes that can be made for the prevention of such exceecra­ble practizes are most necessarie. But now I di­sire all men to see, that the Bishops and wee, justly cry out against this accursed doctrine and practice in the Pope and his associates: That Princes should bee murthered by their subjects for contrary myndednes in Religion, yet they teach the king to murther his subjects for the selfe same thinge, viz: for being cōtrary mynded to them in their Religion. So likewise, as that accursed doctrine, is to bee abhorred in the Pa­pists, who teach, subjects not to bee obedient to their princes that are excomunicate by the pope: even so is that accursed doctrine of the Bbs. to bee abhorred, who Teach, Princes not to protect their subjects that are excomunicate by them, in not affoarding thē either lawe or justice nor to beare testimony in any Court. Do not the Bbs: herein justifie [Page 16] this accursed doctrine and practice in the Pa­pists?.

There is great difference in the persons, for thone are Princes, thother subjects, & subjects must be obedient.

Most true it is, but is it not also true that Princes must afforde all their subjects justice ād equitie, although they be as heathens and Pu­blicans? For iff Princes be freed from doeing right and justice and protectinge their subjects, that be excomunicate, why are not subjects also freed from subjection and allegeance to their Princes being excomunicate, if, excomunication be Christs Lawe to all alike that wilbe saved, without respect off persons. And also, is not that lawe off Christ herein to be observed. That whatsoever ye would men should do to you, even so do you to them. Mat. 7.12. And therefore as Princes would that all their subjects should bee faithfull and obedient vnto thē: so ought Prin­ces to be just and equall to all their subjects, in mainteyning them in every just and equall cause betwene man and man: For, for his cause (not for Religion) saith Thappostle, the saints at Rome paied their tribute to Cesar their heathē Prin­ce, who was against them in Religion. Shall they not escape damnatiō for this accursed doc­trine and practice, ād thinke you you shall? thou that judgest another, judgest them not thy self? By this it may appeare as also by exceeding many other doctrines ād practices how neere you are to that bloody spirituall power, what pretences to the contrary soever you make.

It vvere a lamentable thinge if that bloodie Religion should bee practiced a­gaine in this Nation.

I acknowledg it a bloodie Religion, but God hath cast down the power thereof in this kingdome, blessed be his name but I would you could see your owne cruell bloodie religion, but that God of his mercy hath restrained it by the kings Ma ^tie. who thirsteth not after blood. how many, onely for seeking reformation in re­ligion, hath bene put to death by your power in the daies of Q. Eliz: ād how many, both then ād since, have bene cōsumed to death in prisons? y [...]a since that cruel spiritual power hath bene ser [...]p that not hanging, burning, exile, imprisonments and al manner of contempt bene vsed and al for religion, although some for grevious errors, ād yet you see not this to be a bloodie religion: fur­ther you cry out of their bloodie cruelty, the reason is because you wil not bee of their religion, and when you have done, are most blodie cruell (so far as is in your power) because wee and al men will not bee of your religion.

If men hold errors & vvill not obey the truth, do they not sin against God, & deserve punishment?

Yes, such deserve punishment, but God hath apointed their punishment, and the time thereof. Their punishment Rom. 2.8.9. To them that are contentious & disobey the truth, & obey vn­righteousnes shalbe indignation & wrath, tribulatiō & anguish shalbe vpon the soule of every one that doth evil. Mark. 16.16. He that will not beleeve shal be damned. 2. Thes. 1.8. In flaming fire rendring vē ­geance vnto [Page 18] them that knowe no God, & obey not the gospell of our Lord Iesus Christ, which shall bee punished with everlasting perdition from the presence of the Lord, & the glorie of his power. The time thereof, the last place recited. vers. 7. When the Lord Iesus shal shewe himself from heaven with his mightie Angels: and Rom. 2.5. The day of wrath. and vers. 16, At that day when God shall judg the secrets of men by Iesus Christ▪ and Mat. [...]3 40.41, At the end of this VVorld the sonne of man shall send furth his Angels & they shall gather out of his Kingdome al thinges that offend, & them that doe iniquitie, & shall cast them into a furnace of Fire. &c. Here is shewed the punisher the punishment, and the time thereoff. This punisher hath comaunded you to wait for their repentance (by his owne example) which is in his hands to give them, and not to cut them of and send them to hell, as you teach and prac­tice, which is contrary to God, who is patient towards mockers which walke after ther lusts. 2. Pet. 3. Because he would have no mā to perish, but would that all men whatsoever should come to repentance. but you (contrary to him) vse all the meanes you can to cut Men of, that they might perish, in that you seke to destroy their bodies whilst they remaine in their errors.

I confesse that God commaundeth Mat. 13 That the good & bad must grovv together vnto the end of the VVorld, but that is in the Church.

Wel: if that be the true exposition, I pray you why do you then excomunicate any out off [Page 19] your Churche, contrary to your owne acknow­ledg. And here let all Men take notice that by this exposition you overthrowe your owne excomunication quite, and accuse Christ for giveing a rule. Mat. 18. and Th-appostle Paul, and the church of Corinth for practizing that rule. [...]. Cor 5. In cas [...]ing out of the Church. For you say all must growe together to the end in the Church. But the exposition of the Law-giver himselff is against you, that the [...]eild is the world. vers. 38. Yet in that you confesse that the wicked ād the Godly must be l [...]t alone in the Church vnto the end much more in the world vnto the end: For if the wicked pollute not the Church, sure it is they pollute not the world. This then you are comaunded vnto vers. 29.30. Nay, gather them not let them growe together vnto the end of the world.

Let them come to Church, & they shall grovve together vnto the end.

Indeed I thinke so, hereby you manifest you regard not how wicked and vngodlie men be, so they come to your Church, you wil not de­stroy thē, though they remaine in their abhomi­nable lusts: but if they will not come to your Chur: let thē be wheate or tares, you wil gather thē, and (as much as in you is) send them to bur­ [...]n [...]. Herein al mē may see, as I said before, that you seeke your owne glorie and obedience, & not gods, ād so exalt your selves above God. 2. thes. 2

Wel, I blesse God, I see this as clearly as the sunne shyning in his brightnes, that it is to feight against God to compel any contrarie to their consciences to performe any service vnto him, in that there are so many places of Scrip­ture [Page 20] comaunding the contrary.

The whole new Testament throughout in all the doctrines and practices of Christ ād his disciples teach no such thinge as cōpelling men by persecutions ād afflictions to obey the go:pel but the direct cōtrary: viz: to suffer at the hāds of the wicked, whē they were persecuted for righteousnes sake to suffer it, when the vnbeleevers ād wicked curse them to blesse & pray for their repentance, & that God would forgive them, & never lay these sinnes to their charge, as our Saviour Luk. 23 34. Stephen Act. 7.60. and the rest did. And for a conclusiō of this point, that your faith may bee full herein, consider that wee are to wait for the Iewes conversion, and not to destroy thē.

It is true, that might give all men satis­faction in these thinges.

Oh yes, if Men had any regard of God or his word, they would never deale more in this thinge: the lord (wee see) Rō. 11. hath promised, that whē the fulnes of the gentiles is come in, the jewes shal be cōverted: now if the jewes who are such fearefull blasphemers of Christ ād his gospel, that contemne him and his Testamēt with al dispyte, if their conversion must be waited for, ād that they may not be destroyed from the face of the Earth, then who may not see (iff they shut not their eies) that the conversion off all is to bee waited for: and that no man for blaspheming Christ ād his gospel map be destroyed or afflicted by imprisonments, death, or any calamitie whatsoever.

It is not to be gain-saied with any shewe of truth. I would God the Kings Ma ^tie would consider of this point, seeing that the cruel Bbs [Page 21] by vseing his power, commit such sin against God in this thinge both in persecuting thē that cannot of faith yeild, and also in foreeing them that do yeild contrary to their consciences, to sin against God, and to perish, if they repēt not.

I am perswaded, that if his highnes did but once wel wey ād consider it he would never suffer such high iniquitie to be co [...]i [...]ted against God contrary to his expresse comaundement, ād all to bee done by [...]he Kings power, for nothing have they els to beare them out. The Lord per­swade the harts of his Ma ^tie and his posterity vnto it, seeing his throne is established by him, that he and his posterity may sit & raigne over these Nations and Kingdoms, till Iesus Christ the comaunder of these thinges come in his glo­rie to recompence every Man according to his workes, without respect of persons.

If vvicked malefactors should bee let allone to the end of the vvorld, then vvhere is the Magistrats svvorde? it is of no force if evil men may not be cut of.

I acknowledg vnfainedly that God hath given to Magistrats a sword to cut of wicked mē, and to reward the weldoers. Rom. 13 chap. But this Ministery is a worldly Ministery, their sword is a worldly sword, their punish­ments can extend no further then the outward man, they can but kil the bodie Luk. 12.4. And therefore this Ministery and sword is apointed onely to punish the breach of worldly ordināces which is al [Page 22] that God hath given to any mortal man to pu­nish. The King may make lawes for the safetie ād good of his person, state and subjects, against the which whosoever is disloyall or disobedient he may dispose, of at his pleasure, the Lord hath given him this sword and authoritie, forseeing in his eternal wisedome, that if this his ordi­nance of Magistracie were nor, there would be no liveing for men in the world, and especially for the Godly, ād therefore the Godly have par­ticular cause to glorifie God for this his blessed ordinance of Magistracie, and to regard it with all reverence.

But now the breach of Christs lawes, of the which wee all this while speake, which is the thinge onely I stand vpon, his Kingdome is spi­rituall, his lawes spirituall, the transgressions spirituall, the punishment spirituall, everlasting death of soule, his sword spirituall, no carnall or worldly weapon is given to the supportation of his kingdome, nor to punish the transgressors of the lawes of this kingdome: The law-giver himself hath comaunded that the transgressors of these lawes should be set alone vntil the harvest because he knowes, they that are now tares, may hereafter come to repētance, and b [...]come wheat: they that are now blasphemers, persecutors, & op­pressors as Paul was, may, by the power of Gods word become faithfull and a faithful witnes as he was: They that are now fornicators etc. as some of the Corin: once were 1 Cor. 6.9. may here after become washed clensed & sanctified as they were: they that are now to people nor vnder mer­cie as the Saints sometimes were. 1. Pet. 2.10. may hereafter become the people of god & obtaine mercie [Page 23] as they did: all come not at the First houre, some come not till the eleaventh houre, if those that come not till the last houre should be destroyed: because they come not at the first houre, then should they never come but be prevented.

Were not blasphemers put to death in time of he lavv? 1 evit. 24.11 &c.

Yes, an Isralite blasphemmy the Lord, or doeing any thinge presumptiously, which was blasphemy. Num. 15.30. no sacrifice to bee offered for him: but would you from hence have the kings Ma ^tie to put al his subjects to death that conteinne the truth of Christ? If yea, see what will followe. All Papists ought to be put to death, who are direct blasphemers. Revel. 16 10.11 VVhen the viall of Gods wrath was powred vpon the throne of the Beast: (which all England confesse is ment the Popish power) they blasphe­med the God of Heaven. &c. All the Iewes that speake many thinges blasphemously against Christ, ought to be put to death: Yea of what profession soever he bee doeing any thinge pre­sumpteously against Christ, ought to bee put to death by your affirmation, no sacrifice to bee of­fered, no repentance to be admitted, dye he must vnder two or three witnesses, but that this is most false, Christ and his Appostles in his Testamēt doth manifestli declare as is before shewed: was no Paul a blasphemer, yet received to mercie? But this the Holie Ghost teacheth from blasphemy vnder the law. Heb. 10. He that dispyseth Moses Lawe, dieth without mercie vnder two or three witnesses, of how much sorer punishment [Page 24] suppose ye shall he bee worthy that treadeth vnder foote the Sonne of God, & counteth the blood off the Testament as an vnholy thinge wherewith he was sanctified, & doth dispite the Spirit of grace. Speaking of such as had received & acknowledged the truth. vers. 26. This is now the due proportion, an Israelite according to the flesh in the time of the law presumpteously sinninge against Gods comaundemēt, by his comaund must dye, by the worldly sworde, no sacrifice to be offered for him: so in the new Testament or time of the gospel a spiritual Isralite according to the faith contempteously or dispitefully sinning against Christs commaund he hath former acknowled­ged dispi [...]eing and contemning them, by his co­maund must dye by the spirituall sword, no re­pentance to be admitted, seeing he crucifyeth againe to himself the sonne of God, & makes a mock of him. Heb. 6.6. David and Peter came not within this compasse, though they sinned off knowledg, yet they did it not comtemteously or dispitefully, but through frailtie. If an Isralite vnder the Law did ought through ignorance as Num. 15. or through frailtie as Levit. 6. There was sacrifice for him: so vnder the gospel an Isralit doeing ought through ignorāce or through frailtie as Peter and Barnabas with the rest of the Iewes mencioned Gal. 2. or the me [...]steous person. 1. Cor. 5. There is repentance for him. This is it that cōfounds al true religiō. That be cause it was so in the time of the law, therefore it may be so in the time of the gospell, by which reason, men might set vp as truely the whole law as some parte, and vtterly abolish Christ. I pray you seriously consider what is here said.

Hath not the King the same [...]ovver that the Kings of Israel had who cōpelled mē to the observation of the lavv of God?

First I answere you: that the kings off Israel had never power from God to set vp any thinge in or for the service of God, bur that onely which was comaunded by God Dewt. 4.2. No not so much as the manner of any law. Num. 15 16. and 9.14. and therefore this will not serve your purpose, that Kings may set vp within their dominions such spirituall lords and lawes for the serveing of God, no nor the manner there of as may best please thēselves vnder what pre­tence soever, thereby makeing God for his wor­ship subject to their pleasures. And his Ma ^tie. acknowledgeth that Christs Church after the esta­blishing of it by miracles in the primitive time, was ever after to be governed within the limits of his re­vealed will. Speach at Parl Anno 1609 Secondly the Kings of Israell might compell men to the sacrifices and ordinances of the old Testament, all which were carnall and purged not the con­science Heb. 9.9.10. as circumcision the passover etc: But no mortall Man whatsoever he be, can compel any mā to offer the sacrifices of the new Testament, which are spiritual, and purge the conscience except he can beget faith in him, and convert his soule. The ordinances of the old Te­stament were to be performed by the posteritie of Abra. according to the flesh that thereby they might be taught Christ: but the ordināces of he new Testamēt are to be performed, onely by the posterity of Abrahā according to the faith, that have learned Christ, and have put on Christ, and so [Page 26] haveing him, all thinges els apperteyneth to them. But one thinge I demaunde of you, who now is King of Israel?

I confesse Christ is King of Israel.

Yes, Christ alone is King of Israell, that sits vpō Davids throne, and therefore mark the true proportion. In the time of the old Testamēt the Kings of Israell had power from God to compel all to the ordinances of God, or to cut them of by their sword from the earthly Land of Canaan, and the promisses thereof: So in the new Testament the King of Israel Christ Iesus hath power from the Father to compell all, to the ordinances of God, or to cut them of by his sword, from the Heavenly Land of Canaan and the promisses thereof: The Kings of Israel one­ly had this power vnder the law, and the King of Israell onely hath this power vnder the go­spell: And therefore whosoever will challenge this power vnder the gospel, he must be the king of Israel in the time of the gospell, which is particulier onely to Iesus Christ, vnto whome all power in Heaven and in Earth is given.

And let it be here well observed, that by this opinion of yours you make the Kingdome and ordinances of Israel vnder the Law, and the Kingdome and ordinances of Israell vnder the gospell allone, directly contrary to the whole Scripture, for the Kingdome and ordinances of Israell vnder the lawe were of this world, but the Kingdome and ordinances of Israell vnder the gospell are not of this world, as Christ the King thereof himself testifieth Iohn. 28. And [Page 27] therefore you setting vp a worldly King over this Heavenly Kingdome and ordinances, you and all of your profession declare your selves to be of that worldly kingdome, and so to looke for that Heavenly and spirituall King yet to come in the flesh, being of the number of those that deny him to be come in the flesh, anb so are deceivers and Antichrists, whatsoever you say to the contrarie.

Well, yet I cannot see, but that as the Kings of Israel hath power from God to compell all their subjects, to the vvor­ship then appointed, so the King being a a Christiā King, hath povver to compel his subjects, to the vvorship novv appointed.

You may see, if you shur not your eies, that what power the Kings of Israel had vnder the law in matters of Religion, Christ Iesus the King of Israell hath vnder the gospell: but I pray you let me aske you this question. You say the Kings Ma ^tie hath this power as he is a Christian King: My question is, whether it ap­perteyne vnto him, as he is a King, or as he is a Christian?

Neither simple as he is a Kinge, nor as he is a Christian, but jointly as he is compleate in them both: for I grant that no heathen Kinge hath power to compell in matters of Religion, but a Christian King hath.

Then you confesse that of a Christiā king [Page 28] may be deprived of his Christianitie, (for of his Kingdome or kingly power, or any part thereof I affirme he may not be deprived) he hath lost this power you plead for, in compelling Men in matters of religion: what say you to this?

I confesse if he may be deprived of his Christianitie, he hath not this povver I pleade for.

Then, I demaund this question, whether every Christiā without respect of persons ought not to bee subject to Christs Lawes for his sal­vation?

Yes, it cannot be denyed.

Christ hath given his censure Excomuni­cation, for the salvation of every Christian, that he that will not heare the Church, is to bee as a heathen and a Publicane, that is, hath lost all right and title in Christ, and in his Church, till he repent, now I knowe it cāno. be denyed, but every Christian whatsoever, is subject to sin, and so to excomunication to be as a Heathen: etc: If you say, that Kings either are not subject to sin, and to impenitency therein, and so to this cēsure of Christ, of excomunication, for their impenitent sin, then consider what you make them, and God you make a lyer. If you graut (as you cannot deny) that Kings aswell as others, are subject to impenitent sin, and so to excomunication for the same, then they being deprived of their Chri­stianity, by your owne confession, they are deprived of power to compel in matters of Religion, the which if it were any part of their Kingly power, they might be deprived of a part of their [Page 29] Kingly power, by being excomunicate, consider what a wicked doctrine you teach herein.

Doth not the Prophet say: that Kings shalbe nursing Fathers & Queenes nursing Mothers to the Church? And also it is said that kings shal hate the vvhore, make her desolate, eate hir flesh, & burne hir vvith fire. VVhere vvee see, that kings that have power & authoritie, shal destroy Antichrists kingdome, & nurrish & che­rish Christs kingdome.

Most true it is, the lord hath spoken it, and therefore it ought to be great comfort to Gods people but what is this to the purpose in hand, namely that Kings may persecute the contrary mynded, the words of the Prophet Esa. proves that Kings ād Queenes that have formerly persecuted ād destroyed the church, their harts shal be turned by the power of Gods word, to be lo­vers and preservers of the Church: ād the other place Revel. 17.16. proves that Kings shal make that whore desolate, etc. not by their tēporal au­thority or sword (as some say that make more shewe of religiō then you do, although thēselves be now persecuted, yet if kings were of their mynds, would be as cruell as you, for they maintaine the same thinge) but by the spirit of the lords moueth, & the brightnes of his cominge. 2. Thes. 2.8. For this kingdome of Antichrist shalbe destroyed without hand. Dan. 8.25. onely by the ever­lasting gospell, the true armor indeed wherewith the witnesses feight against the Antichrist. As the Kings Ma ^tie. acknowledgeth. Apol. Pag. 93.

You are so stiffe against vseing off outvvard weapons in Church matters, did not our Saviour Christ make a vvhipp of smale cords, & vvhipp the byers & sellers out of the Temple? And vvhy may not wee followe his example?

In this and many other actions of Christ our Saviour, wee are to consider him as the fulfiller and ender of the law, as in the actiō of the Passover, & sending him that was clensed of his Le­prosie to offer to the Preist, the gift that Moses co­maunded, in which thinges wee are not to ymi­tate him, for by him the Ceremonies are fulfilled and abolished, and the everlasting gospel established, in the which wee are to walke: and it were more then foolish to reason thus. Christ whipped wicked Men out of Gods Temple made with hands, with whips made of cord, therefore wee may whipe wicked Men, out of Gods Temple made without hands, with whips made of cord. There is a whole some doctrine to bee collected from the Tipe to the Truth as thus. Christ drive out wicked Men out of the Temple made with hands, by a carnall or worldly whipp, so Christ (by his people) must drive wicked Men out of the Temple made without hands, by a Spirituall whipp. evē his word, which is called a whip or rode. Revel. 2.27. and Psal. 2.9. so is excomunication. 1. Cor. 4.21.

Iff fredome off Religion should bee granted, there vvould bee such devi­sions [Page 31] as vvould bread sedition, & inovatiō in the State.

Thus when your shewes out of the scriptures are answered, then you runne to conceits and ymaginations, of sedition, innovation and the like, thinkeing thereby to diswade Princes, and ali t [...], at are in authority there from, kno­weing els your kingdome of iniquity would fal But that it may appeare to all that you deale deceitfully herein, let vs consider first the scrip­tures, secondly behold the successe, of suffering of of Religion free in other Counries. And first. Christ our Saviour, ( who is that Prince of peace. Esa. 9.6. not of sedition) hath taught. Mat. 10. and Luk. 12. That he came not to send peace on the Earth, but debate, to devide Fyve in one house, two against three, & three against two, the Father against the Sonne, &c. And a mans enimies shallbee they of his owne housholde. And his desire is, that the Fire of such sedition, should bee kindled, where wee see, this Prince of peace putteth difference in Religion, by preaching his Gospell, which some receive, as the savour of life vnto them: others refuse it, and so become enemies vnto the truth and witnesses thereoff, as they did to Christ Ie­sus himselfe, and his Disciples, and as you do to me and others. Secondly behold the Nations where freedome off Religion is permitted, and you may see there are not more florishinge and prosperous Nations vnder the heavens then they are.

The convocation of Bishops and the rest have made a Canō, that whosoever shal affirme [Page 32] that the Kings Ma ^tie hath not the same power in causes Eccleciasticall, vnder the Gospell, that the godly Kings of Israell had vnder the law, let him be excomunicate, Ipso facto.

Yes they have so. In the beginning off his Ma ^ties raigne when they had got him sure vnto them, of the which they so much doubted, as with my owne eares I heard some of their cheife followers say, whē his highnes was comming into England. Now must steples downe, & wee shall have no more high commission. (with la­mentation they spake it) then they made this Canon, because their consciences are convinced, that they stand onely by his power, and if his hand bee turned, their Spirituall power of darknes falleth to the pit of darknes, from whence it came, and whether it must go, there being ne­ver so much meanes vsed for the supporting off it, for the stronge Lord hath spoken it. Revel. 18. As for their sending Men to Hell (as they sup­pose) with their ipso facto excomunications, iff they had no stronger weapon for the supporting of their Kingdome, it would stand but a short space. If Israell now were of this world, as it was vnder the lawe, then they said some­thinge: but iff it bee not of this World, as it is not. Ioh. 17.14. Then the King is not off this world, for when this King came the world­ly Israell knewe him not.

I see evidently, that al are but cavels, and that no mortall Man can make any Man offer Sacrifices vnder the new Testament, vntill he bee a beleever, and converted, for he must bee in [Page 33] Christ, before he may offer sacrifices, for in Chri: onely the Father accepteth vs: but what say you, have they not power to compell Men to come to the place where the word is publiquely taught that they may be converted?

Wel: then you see that the example of the kings of Israel (who had power to compel thē to sacrifice, or to cut them of) applyed to earthly Princes, is gone as a meere doctrine of man, ād not of God. And for compelling mē to heare that they be converted, wee can learne of no better then of him, who if wee heare not wee shal have a dreadful recompence. He had al power in heaven and in earth for converting soules givē vn­him, and sent his Disciples, as his Father sent him. Ioh. 20.21. Charging thē that whē they should come into a City. etc. if they would not receive them nor their word, to shake of the dust of their feet for a witnes against them, saying it should bee easier for Sodom & Gomorah in the day of judgmēt then for that Citie or house: And so th-Apostles went from City to City accordingly. Here was no Temples made, nor worldly power to compel al to come vnto them to heare the word off the Lord, but they comaunded to goe from City to City and from house to house.

In those daies the Magistrats were vnbeleevers but the question is where Magistrats be beleevers.

Christ had al power needful for that worke if Magistracie were a power needfull for that worke▪ thē Christ had not al power, magistracy is [Page 34] Gods blessed ordinance in it right place, but let not vs be wiser thē God to device him a meanes for the publishinge of his gospell, which he that had all power had not, nor hath comaunded. Magistracie is a power of this world: the kingdome, power, subjects, and meanes of publishing the gospell, are not of this world.

A Goodly thinge indeed that Men must go about the Countrie to preach.

In your estimation it is base and con­temptible, your pompe and pride will not beare this, it is more ease for you to hunt after promotion, till you come to the highest in getting to be cheife Bishop of Bishops within these domini­ons, and then cometh your fall, full lowe, iff you repent not, but the wisedome of God hath ap­pointed the cheifest Officers of Christs King­dome, even the Appostles, thus basely to go vp and downe, to and fro to preach his Gospel, yea that worthy Apostle Paul preached this gospel night & day with many teares openly & throughout every house. Act. 20.

But if this bee thus / as for my owne parte I am fullie perswaded it is / then I see the high commission cannot stand for as I take it / it is onely for causes Ecclesiasticall.

So far as it is over Church matters, it is most vnlawfull, for the comission for judging and punishing of the transgressors of the lawes of Christs Church is given to Christ the Mo­narch thereof, a parte whereof he hath left to his Disciples, which is no worldly comission or power, but onely the power of the Lord Iesus, the vttermost of which comission is excomunication. 1. Cor. 5.

The high commission is from the King, & dare you once call it into que­stion.

If I do take any authority from the kings Ma ^tie, let me be judged worthy my de­sert, but if I defend the authoritie of Christ Ie­sus, over mens soules, which apperteyneth to no mortall Man whatsoever, then knowe you, that whosoever would rob him of that honor, which is not of this world, he wil tread thē vnder foote: Earthly authoritie belongeth to earthly Kings but spirituall authoritie belongeth to that one spirituall King who is King of Kings.

Well all your pleading vvill not serve your turne, either you must come to Church, or els go to prison.

I have shewed you by the law of Christ that your course is most wicked, to compell any by persecution to performe any service to God, (as you pretend.) Now I desire also to shewe you, that the Statute law of the land requireth onely civill obedience, and his Ma ^ties writings mainteyning the Oath of alligience Testifieth the same.

The law of the lād requireth that whosoever cometh not to Church or receiveth not the Sa­craments, the Oath of allegeance is to bee ten­dered to them, which that it may be manifest to [...] that not onely I, but al that professe the faith with me are most willing to subscribe vnto it in faithfulnes and truth, I have thought good to [...]presse it.

This Oath was intended for the Papists & not for you.

It is not so. For his Ma ^tie at the last Session of Parli: Anno 1609. saith thus. ‘ Some doubts have bene conceived anent the vseing off the oath off allegeance, & that parte off the Act that ordeynes the takeing thereoff is thought so obscure, that no man can tell vvho ought to bee pressed therevvith. &c. And therefore iff there [Page 38] bee any cruple touching the ministering thereof, I would wish it now to be cleared. &c.’ And there­vpon this statute was made Anno 7. Regni Re­gis Iacobi. &c. Chap. 6. rowards the latter end.

And if any person or persons whatsoever of & above thage of 18 yeres do now stand or at any time here­after shal stand, & be pretented, indighted, & convic­ted, for not coming to church, or receiving the lords supper, according to the lawes & statutes of this real­me, before the ordinary, or any other haveing power to take such presentments, or indightmēts: or iff the Minister, pettie Constable, or Churchwardēs, or any two of them, shall at any time hereafter complaine to any Iustice of peace reare adioyning to the place where any person complained of shall dwell, & the said justice shal find cause of suspition, that then any one Iustice of peace within whose comissiō or power any such person, or persons, shall at any time hereaf­ter be, or to whome complaint shallbee made, shall vpon notice there off require such person or persons to take the said oath. And that if any person or per­sons being of thage of 18. yeres or above, shal refuse to take the said oath, duely tendered vnto him, or hit according to the true intēt & meaning of this statute that thē the persons authorized by this lawe to give the said oath, shall & may commit the said offender to the comon jayle &c. where wee see that if any take the said oath at their first apprehension, they are not to be comitted, or if they being comitted, take the said oath at the next open Court, they are to bee set at libertie, if they will not take the said oath, to bee in premunire, as is at large in the statute declared, & as is daylie practiced with Papists, & others.

The Kings Majestie requireth your allegeance to be testifyed by your cōming to Church.

I pray let me demaund this questiō, doth the K: require my coming to C: to worship and serve God, or to worship and serve the K: if to worship and serve the K: I am ready to obey: if to worship and serve God, which none can do, but of conscience, the King himself saith he never intended to say any thinge to the charge if any for cause of conscience, ād this coming to Church being a cause of conscience, if not he, why do you lay any thinge to my charge, for the same. And therefore you wronge his Ma ^tie in thus affir­ming: For his highnes requireth onely my faithful allegeance to bee testified by the a fore said oath, and therefore hath ordeyned it, as I shal shewe by his highnes own testimony. If I should come to Church, and not of consciēce, but for other respects, as many Papists and other Hipocrits do, to God it were most abhominable and what faithfulnes can be hoped for in such, towards his Majesties person and state, can any Godly wiseman thinke that he that playeth the dissembling hipocrite with God, that he will do lesse with men, and wil not worke any villany if it were i [...] power, ād therefore herein, you compelling [...] by tyrannie to bring my bodie, wherevnto my spirit cannot be brought, you cō ­pel me to hipocrisie with God and man, for if my hart were not faithfull in sincerity to his Ma­jesties Crowne and dignitie, as I take God to witnes (before whome I must be condemned or [Page 40] justified) it is, these courses would rather harde my hart to worke villany then otherwise.

Now for his Majesties many Testimonys in his wrytings, they are worthy to bee recorded with thākefulnes to the highest for guiding his hart and pen to write such thinges.

In his Apology for the oath of alegeāce pag. 4. he saith. Speaking of such Papists as tooke the oath of allegeance. ‘ And I gave a good proofe that I intēded no persecution against them for con­science cause, but onelie desired to bee secured off them for evil obedience which for conscience cause they were bound to performe. & pag 60. Speaking of Blackwel the Arch-Preist he saith. I never intēded to lay any thinge to the said Arch Preists charge as I have never done to any, for cause of cōsciēce. & pag. 127. he saith. First for the cause of their punishmēt, I do constātly maintaine, that which I said in my Apologie: that no man, either in my time, or in the late Queens. ever died here for his conscience: For let him be never so devout a Papist: nay though he professe the same never so constantly, his life is in no dā ger by the lawe. if he breake not out into some out­ward act expreslie against the words of the law: or plot not some dangerous or vnlawfull practice or attempt. &c.’ Where wee may [...] short what is the whole some that he req [...].

And in his Majesties speach at the last Ses­sion off Parliament Anno Domini 1609. where he saith he sheweth his subjects his hart. he saith thus.

A most vndoubted truth, which iff it bee (as most manifest it is by the Testimony of the Ho­ly Ghost, throughout Christs Testament as be­fore is proved) then how cursed are al the ranke off you, that continewally breake this sure rule off God, thus confidently acknowledged by his Majestie, planting your Church by violence and bloodshed forceing many thousāds against their consciences to bee off our Church, and to receive your Sacraments, by all the persecu­tions that would followe: if they did not yeild, and those that feare God more then Men, and dare not yeild, casting them into noysome Pri­sons: amongst most wicked Blasphemers off God, to the wounding off their soules: De­viding them from their Wives. Children and Families, and from their callings some an hun­dreth myles and more, vtterly consuming that substance they have, which sustaineth the blood [Page 42] of them their wives and Children: seldome or never affording them release, but either by yeil­ding to you against their Consciences, or els by con [...]uming their bodies to death, in prisō banishment, or the like, leaveing them and their wives to horrible temptations of adultery, in parting them, & their wives, ād to al manner of evill in takeing them from their callings, ād so leaveing them in continuall Idlenes. Is Gods Church thus planted? or do Christs Disciples thus plant?

Oh I [...] this spirituall power is little inferior in cru­elty to the Romish spirituall power / I pray how or whi was this set vp.?

Henry the 8. casting of Pope Clement the 7. and so the Popes power Anno 1534. set vp this Spirituall power vnder him: see Act. and Mo: pag: 1201. etc.

I pray you shewe the likenes betwene these two spiri­tuall powers.

I wil doe my best endeavor which is but smale.

First, the Romish spirituall power doth make lawes to the conscience, and compel al therevnto by excomunication, imprisonment, banishment, death and the like.

This spiritual power doth the like, vpon the like pennalties as al knowe.

The Romish power doth give Titles to his Ministers, which are the Titles off God and Christ, as spiritual lords, great Bishope ād ma­ny more.

This Spirituall power doth the like as all knowe.

The Romish power doth set vp Lords over their brethren in spiritual thinges, vnto whome [Page 43] they comaund honor, and great liveings to bee given great Pompe and Pride.

This power doth the like, as all knowe.

I shall not need to speake of this, in that all bookes are full and all consciences (excepe those that are scrared with hot irons) convinced here off. Let but Maister Fox, or any others who have described the spirituall power of Rome, let but their discription thereof bee compared with this spirituall power in all their lawes, Courts Titles, Pompe, Pride, and crueltie, and you shal see them very little differ, except in their cruel­ties, which (glory bee to God) the kings Ma ^tie. who thirsteth not after blood hath some thinge rear a ne [...], although it is most grevious crueltie to lye divers yeres in most noysome and filthy prisons, and continewall temtatione of want, their estates overthrowne and never coming out many of them till death, let it bee well wei­ghed, ād it is little inferior to the cruel suddaine death in times of the Romish power in this Nation.

It is very apparant it is that ymage or similitude off that Beast spoken of Revel 13.

Oh yes, for their is no such image of the Popish power vnder the Heavens as this: wel our comfort is, the stronge Lord hath said. The Kings of the Earth (by whose power both the beast and his image is supported) shal take their power from hir, then shall she stand naked and desolate, and to this purpose his Majestie hath a worthie exhortation to all Princes, etc. in his Apologie. Pag. 103. The words are these.

For as she did flie, but with your fethers, borrow­ing as well hir titles of greatnes, and formes of ho­noring [Page 44] hir, from you, as also enjoying all hir Tem­porall liveings by your liberalities, so iff every man do but take his ovvne againe, she vvill stand vp naked, &c.

Oh that the VVords off GGD might bee ac­cepted off his Majesty, set downe by the Holy Ghost Rom. 2.

Thou that teachest another, teachest thou not they selff? For iff he would take but his owne, their titles of greatnes ād formes, off honoring them, and their temporal liveings, this spiritual power would stand very naked and desolate.

Well the harts off Kings are in the hands of the Lord and he can turne them as the Rivers off water / but I desire your advice for my owne estate: I knowe every one must be are their owne burden / I have a long time remained sub­iect to this spiritual power / partely through ignorance / and partely through feare.

I wil first declare vnto you the judgmēts of God against such as submit therevnto, that so from an vtter abhorring thereof you may come out never to returne thither againe. Secondly: I will do the best I can to shewe you the way the Lord requireth you to walke in, and that onely out of his word.

The judgments are so feareful as I tremble to thinke off them, greater then which, is not manifested in the whole booke off God, Revel. 14 9.10.11. And the third Anngell followed them, say­inge with a lowde voyce, iff any man Worship the Beast and his ymage, and receive his marke in his forehead, or on his hand, the same shal drinck of the Wyne of the wrath of God, yea of the pure Wyne [Page 45] that is powred into the Cup of his wrath, he shalbe tormented in fire and brimstone, before the Holie Anngels, and before the Lambe. And the smoake of their torment shal ascend evermore, and they shal have no rest day nor night, which worship the Beast and his jmage, and whosoever receiveth the print of his name.

I confesse these iudgments are to be trembled at / but how do you apply them properly to such as worship in these assemblies?

For the satisfaction of al consciences herein that it may appeare playnly, not to be gainsaid, let vs cōsider the words of wisedome, set downe in order as they lye. And first: what is ment by worship. 2ly: what by the Beast. 3ly. what his jmage is. 4ly. what his marke is: ād lastly what is ment by forehead or hand.

And first for worship, it is plentifully manife­sted in the scriptures, that it is service, subjectiō or obedience, to such thinges as are comaunded by God, or others: as Mat. 4.10. Exo 20.5. dewt 13.4. and therefore his servāts wee are whome wee obey. Rom. 6.16. and as the lord saith: Iff I be your maister, where is my feare? if a Fa­ther where is myne honor or worship Mal. 1.6 2ly: by Beast, the scripture speaketh sometimes of cruel men in power and authority, as Dan. 7.17. Luk. 13.31.32.2. Tim. 4.17. Sometimes of a blasphemous spiritual power exercised by men, received off the Dragon exalting it selfe above God, makeing war with the Saints, and over­coming them, and that hath power over every kindred, and tongue, and Nation, so that al that dwell [Page 46] vpon the Earth worship him. etc. And this is the Beast here spoken of, even that spirituall power or jurisdiction of Rome: which first wrought in a mistery, and by degrees was exalted, till at the last it was exalted to this cruell Beast discribed. Revel. 13.1. etc. Which Beast openeth his moueth to bla [...]phemy against [...]od, saying and practizing, that the comaundements that God hath given for his service, are not to bee regarded, but in steed thereof setteth, vp co­maunds of his owne, vnto the which whoso­ever will not bee subject, excommunication and all crueltie even to death will ensue, yea even with Gunpowder err it faile, and for this his crueltie he is called a Beast.

Thirdly: by Image is ment any forme, shape similitude, or resemblance of the thinge spoken of, as Deut. 4.15.16. etc. Exo. 20 4 so that where soever such a spirituall power is, as this aboue discribed, there is the Beasts Image, as in Eng­land, the like power or Beast to the first, is not to bee found vnder the Heavens, in exaltation and cruelty.

Fourthly: by marke, is ment profession or practice, whereby wee are knowne from others as Mat. 7.20. 1. Iohn. 2 2 Iohn. 13.35. As bad­ges or markes do put difference, betwixt this Mans and that Mans, in Cattel or servants, as by such a mans marke wee knowe these are his sheepe, and by such a Mās badg. wee knowe this man belongeth to such a great man: so they are said to have put on Christ, that have recei­ved his baptisme. Gal. 3.27. even as a servant is knowne by putting on his libery.

[Page 47]Lastly, forehead or hand, the holy Ghost vseth that phraise from the Old Testament, where Gods people were commaunded, not onely to lay vp his Commaunds in their harts and in their soules, but to bind them for a signe vpon their hands. that they might bee as frontiers betweene their eyes. Dewt. 11.18. and 6.6.8. The wysedome of God therein teaching, that the forehead and hād are the apparantest parts of the body, to the view of all Men: so that to receive the marke in the forehead or hand, is to make manifest profession of him wee obey. The some of all which is, that whosoever openly professeth obedience, and subjection, to that Spiri­tuall cruell power off Rome, The Beast, or to that Spirituall cruell power off England, his Image, (wheresoever they or eyther of them are exal­ted) such a one, and such persons shall drinke off the wine off Gods wrath, and bee tormented in fire and brimstone, and shall have no rest day nor night for evermore.

Your discription of the Beast / the Papists will deny / so will the English Lord Bbs: and their followers deny your discription of his ymage / but thousands will grant both: and some will deny both / as the Familists / who say / that Religiō standeth not in outward thinges / ād therefore they wil submit to any outward service / and they that do not so / but suffex persecution (say they) are iustly persecuted.

Those enimies to the Crosse of Christ are most of them not worth enformation, because for the most part they are such as do with an high hand sin, after enlightninge, haveing for­saken the way wherein they walked, because they would not beare Christs Crosse, but in that some simple soules may be seduced by them [Page 48] let vs a little in generall compare their opinion with the scriptures.

True it is, that religion standeth not onely in outward thinges, for God requireth the hart: and truth in the inward parts, but that God requireth not our subjection (vpon feareful pu­nishments) to those outward ordinances which he requireth, is a doctrine of devils as I shall prove.

And first, for the outward ordinances off the old Testamēt, which were meerly shadowes, & now are beggerly rudiments Gal. 4.16. what indignation the lord had towards them that trans­gressed. Nadab and Abihu, offering straing fire, which the Lord hath not comaunded, a fire went out from the Lord, & devoured them, Levit. 10.1.2. The men off Bethsh [...]mosh lokeing into the out­ward arke which God had forbidden. Num 4.20. The Lord slevve fifty thousand, & threescore and ten of them. 1. Sam. 6.19. Ozza, of a good intent leaninge his shoulder to the same outward arke which God forbad, the Lord slewe him. 1. Chro. 13.7.-10. Ozziah the King offering vp outward incense, which God comaunded onely the Preist Num. 18.3.7. The Lord smit him with leprosye vntil his death. 2. Chro. 26. Corah and his com­pany: what feareful judgments came vpon thē (though he a Levite) for presuming to meddle with the Preists office, the earth openinge and swallowing them vp. Num. 16. King Saule, li­kewise offering vp incense (in time off need as he thought) the Lord rent his Kingdome from him. 1. Sā. 13. as also for his disobedience afterwards touchinge the fat of Amelecks cattle. 1. Sā. 15. How often was the wrath of the Lord [Page 49] powred downe vpon the Isralites: because off their transgression of his outward ordinances, in place, person, and thinges, for it was a Low. Levit. 17.3.4. That who so brought not his sacri­fice to the place. viz: to the doore of the tabernacle of the congregation, but offered it vp other where, blood should be imputed to that man, & he should be cut off from among his people: yea such sacrifices were estemed off God, as offered to devils, vers. 7. & the lord caused them to pronounce. Dewt. 27.26. cursed be he that confirmeth not al the words of thir law. to do them. & all the people must say so be it: was God thus jealous of Moses ordinances, ād is the lesse jelous of Christs? must he die that dispiseth Moses law, and shal he escape that dis­piseth Christs? vpon what pretence soever. And Christ saith. It becometh him & all his to fulfill all righteousnes in outward ordināces as washinge with water. Mat. 3.15. & whosoever saith, he knoweth God, & keepeth not his comaundments (which are outward, as wel as inward) he is a lyar. 1. Ioh. 2.4. & whosoever breakes the least comaundment, and teacheth men so, he shalbe called the least in the kingdome of heaven. Mat. 5.19. & whosoever will not heare that Prophet (Chr: Iesus) in al thinges that he shal say vnto thē, shalbe destroyed out off his people. Act. 3.22.23. the affectiōs of the soule are to be manifested by the actions of the body, ac­cording to Gods word, and al other good intēts or affections are abhominable. Wee may not neither can wee, Worship God with our Spirits, and the Devill with our Bodies: For VVee are bought VVith a price, and therefore must not bee the Servants off Men, [Page 50] but must glorifie God with our bodies, & with out spirits, for they are his. 1. Cor. 6.20. and. 7.23. And this mai suffice to satisfy any cōcerning the over throwe off this accursed conceit, knowing also that Christ and his Apostles, and all his Disci­ples to the end of the world, might, and may live peaceably enough from persecution, if this doc­trine might be observed viz: submissiō with our bodies to any outward service. The Lord discover such Hipocrites.

I blesse God I have learned of thApostle 2. Cor. 13.8. To say nothing against the truth / but for the truth / and therefore when I see thinges are evidently manifested by the scriptures disirous to submit ād not to cavil. But you knowe it is pleaded they have the word and Sacraments in the English assemblies.

I confesse they have the scriptures, in the which Gods misceries are conteyned, which is locked vp from thē, ād revealed to his Saincts. Col. 1.26. which they woefully pervert to their owne destruction: They have also imitations of Gods ordinances, as water, bread and wine, ād other thinges, which they use after their owne invētions, which thinges maketh them boast so much of their Christianity and of their Church, and which maketh them reason thus.

Wee are Gods people, for wee have the word and Sacraments.

The Philistimes might better have reasoned: 1. Sā. 5. who had the true arke of God amongst them, these have but a shewe.

Wee are Gods people, for wee have Gods Arke and holy Oracles amongst vs. But I thinke they had no great cause to rejoyce there [Page 51] of in the ēd: No more shal these have in the end, when God recompenceth al that with hold the truth in vnrighteousnes. Gods dealing is not now as it was of old, he now reserveth punish­mēt to the last day, he is patiēt, and would have men repent: but they despise his bountifulnes and long suffering, preaching peace when there is no peace.

It cannot be denyed / but that the ministers preach many excellent truths / and do bring people to much reformation in many thinges.

True it cannot be denyed. For if the devil should come in his owne likenes, men would re­sist him, but because he trāsformeth himselfe into an Angel of light, therefore he deceiveth. So his ministers, if they should teach al lyes, mē would not be deceived by them, nor plead for them, but because they teach many truths people receive them. but first: for whatsoever they teach, they neither could nor should teach publiquely, their moueths should be stopped, if they received not that their power to teach such truths frō those the Dragon sends, ād therefore none cā receive those truths from thē, but they receive the devil by whose power they teach for as our Saviour saith Mat. 10.40. He that receiveth you, re­ceiveth me, and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me. So he that receiveth those the Beast sends, receiveth the Beast and he that receiveth the Beast, receiveth him that sent him, that is the devil. Further did not that South­sayer Balaam, teach excellent truths? Num. 23.24. Chap. Yea the Southsayers of th Philistines the like. 1. Sam. 6. Yea those in the Gospell [Page 52] preach in Christs name. Mat. 7.22, as many we testimonies might be manifested, and secondly. For their bringing off people to reformation, and therein doeing great workes, did not the Southsayers before recited. 1. Sam. 6. shewe the Princes their sin, in deteyninge Gods Arke and the judgments against them for the same, exhorting them to send it away, and not to har­den their harts, as Pharaoh and the Egiptians hardned their harts? and was not reformation wrought hereby? ād did not they that preached in Christs name cast out Devils, and do many and great workes? of whome our Saviour testifieth, he never acknowledged them. But let vs a litle consider wherein the reformation consisteth, procured by their preachinge, in drunc­kennes, whoredome, swearing. etc. Moral due­ties, which thinges whosoever is not reformed in, shal never see Gods Kingdome, yet which thinges many of the Philosophers (that knewe not God) abounded in, as they that knowe the stories cannot deny.

But do they teach their hearers to hate vaine inventions and love Gods Law? in a generall manner of teathing they may, but iff it come to particular practice, you shal see what they will do: do they teach any to submit to that one law giver Christ Iesus, for the guydance of his Church, and not to Antichrists abhominations, no they will tell you, you must sigh and groane, till the Magistrate will reforme: for you are a private person, and must bee subject: and iff the powerfull working off Gods word and Spirit prevaile in you, to let you see, that the Magi­strats not reforminge, wil not excuse you at the [Page 53] day off account, but that, that soule that comit­teth abhomination shall dye, and that rather then you will Worship the Beast or his Image, you will suffer with Christ peaceably seperating your selfe from such opē prophanatiō as neither can, nor willbe reformed, endevouring to square your selfe both in your entrance, and walking in Christs way, vnto that golden read, which he hath left for direction: then the best off all these preachers and reformers, willbe hot and bitter, laboring with al the turning of devices to turne you, and with hold you from reformation: And iff they cannot prevaile hereby, then publish you in their previleged pulpits, where none may an­swere them: You are a schismatique, Brownist. Annabaptist and what not, to make the multy­tude abhor your doeings, ād not to followe you therein, and some of them (iff not all) vnder a cullor, procure your imprisonment, and trouble, by their Canonized lords, or some off their Hei­lish Pursevants. And such preachers of Refor­mation are the best off them all.

Oh how have we bene besottes in these thinges for wāt of true knowledg and vnderstanding from the Scriptures / how have I and others satisfyed our selves with these thinges / in that our estate was happy / perswading our selves thereoff / when alas our feare towards God was taught by the inven­tions of men but the reason thereof was wee iudged our sel­ves by our owne perswations / and not by Gods word.

I pray you let not that seme straing vn­to you, that people should perswade themselves of their good estate with God, when it is not so. The Isralites Gods People thought their estate good, many tymes, when alas at it was [Page 54] otherwise, as the Prophets declared vnto them yea our Saviour Testifieth, that they boasted of God being their Father, when they not so much as knewe him. Ioh. 8.19. Yea when they were of their Father the Devil. vers. 44. The fyve foolish Virgines though their condition good enough, and that they should have bene let in, but it was otherwise. Luk. 20, The wicked thought they did God service that killed Christs Disciples. Ioh. 16.2. Mans hart is deceytful. Ier. 17.9. who are more confidēt of their good estate with God then the Papists, notwithstanding al their grosse abhominations? even so have you and I (God pardon vs) thought beyond al, that wee were in a good estate, haveing such zealous teachers, that teach so many excellent truths vnder the Title of Christs ministers, til wee came to examine them, as the Church of Ephesus did Revel, 2. then wee found them to hāve no other ministery then that they received frō the Beast and his Image, which the Dragon gave. Re­vel. 13.

Are all without exception in this feareful estate to bee cast into the laike that burneth with fire and brimstone?

Al that submit, obey, or worship the Beast without exception, for their is no respect of per­sons with God. So saith the Lord: If any Man worship. &c. These (worshippers vnder the Beasts Image) may bee devided into two sorts. First, those that ignorantly perswade themselves that al that is practiced is good ād acceptable to God. Secondly: those that see and aknowledg many thinges to be evill which [Page 55] they would gladly have removed, but because they cannot without the Crosse of Christ, partly for that, and partly by the perswation of their Prophets (that the thinges are not fundament­tall and the like pretences) all submit, and teach Men so.

Some affirme / there be thousands in England / that never worshipped the Beast etc. but be careful to kepe the co­maundements of God, and faith of Iesus.

Such are not vnder these judgmēts, but if there meaning be of any that submit to these ordinances appointed for these assēblies, such tea­chers preach peace whē there is none, strengthē the wicked, that they cannot returne from their wicked way, by promissing them life, whose re­ward shalbe according to the reward of such fal­se Prophets. Ezek. 13.1. and Chap. 14.10. because they followe their owne spirit, and have not re­ceived it from the Lord. For thus saith the lord, Such shal drinck of the wine of the wrath of God.

It is also affirmed by some / that in respect of personall [...]races / some of the professors (as they are called) are the Chil­dren of God / and may be communicated with privately / th [...]ugh in respect of their Church actions they are members of Anti­christs body to whome the iudgments of God apperteyneth.

This opinion proceedeth not from Gods word, but from mans vaine hart, by the sugges­tion of the devil, which that it my evidently ap­peare, let vs a little consider of it. In truth it is to say, that in one respect they have Gods pro­misses aperteyning to them: in another respect they have Gods most fearfull tormēts (pronounced [Page 56] against that Beast, and that false Prophet. Revell 19.20.) apperteyning to them: In one re­spect they are Gods people, serveing him their Maister: In another respect the Devils people serveing him their Maister: In one respect, they shalbe saved, in another respect they shalbe damned: but what false doctrine this is, Gods holy word doth discover. Our Saviour saith: No man can serve two maisters, ye cannot serve God and Ri­ches. Mat. 6.25. And can any serve Christ and the Beast, God and the Dragon? when Christ shal come at the last day to give to every Man according to his workes, wil he say to any one, In respect of thy personal graces, I will save thee, come thou blessed, (as he wil say to all his Children) But in respect of thy being a Mem­ber of Antichrists body, I will damne thee, go thou cursed as he wil to al that worship or obey the Beast? wil not Christ Iesus pronounce absolutely either salvation or condemnation to eve­ry one? And that according to this word Ioh. 12 48. so as God in his righteousnes will either justify or condemne, every Man: so hath he taught vs to knowe, that no Fountaine can make salt water and sweet Iam. 3.12. And therefore that by mens fruits wee should knowe and judg thē to be not both good and evill trees at one time. as this opinion teacheth, but either good or e­vill: alwayes takeing heed, wee justify not the wicked, nor condemne the innocent, both which are abhominable to the lord: ād for any comuniō whatsoever with them, what fellowship hath Christ with Antychrist, the righteous with the wicked: the servant of the lambe, with the Ser­vants [Page 57] of the beast? but I leave this for further answere to those who although they are nearer to this man, that hath published this opiniō, thē I am yet hath (according to truth) confessed in writinge. That there is nothing to be expected frō Christ, by any member of the Church of England, but a pow [...]ing out of his eternal wrath, vpon them. Mr. De-Cluse. Advertis. Pag. 9.

Wel / I praise God / I am much enformed in these thinges yet one thinge more I wil desire your answere vnto. The case standeth thus with me. In these thinges I am betwixt faith and doubting / though the rather / I beleeve these thin­ges you say are true / and that I may never go to these assem­blies againe without sin / but I am not so perswaded thereoff / that I dare suffer for it / what if I should (not haveing faith to suffer) for feare of persecution / go to their worship againe.

It were your most feareful sin, which I prove thus, and I pray you observe it wel you must do it, either as being verely perswaded you do well, and then al this beginning of light in you should bee extinguished, ād so your estate is with the worst, if not worse: or els you must do it, doubting whether you do wel or no: For I hope you wil not say you do it knowing you do evil. If you do it doubting, the Lord saith: It is sin. Rom. 14.23. Which I hope you will ac­knowledg, and not approve your selfe to do wel in syning, and then God is mercifull to forgive your sinne, either this or any other. 1. Iohn. 1.9.

But iff you say you sinne not therein doeing it doubtingly, you make God a lyar who saith: It is sin, & your sin remaineth.

What iff I should many times go through weaknes?

If you vnfainedly repent, being through weaknes, there is mercy with God, though it should be seaventy times seven times in a day. Mat 18.21.22. But wee had need to take heed of our repentance. Th-apostle saith, where there is Godly sorrowe for sin, what care it worketh in you yea what indignation. &c. 2. Cor. 7. and custome in sin, is dangerous, wee had need to take heed, wee be not hardned, through the deceitfulnes of sin. heb 3.13.

Then you how / that if any Man approve himselfe in syninge / his sin remaineth.

If any man sin, and say he hath not sinned. there is no truth in him. 1. Ioh. 1.8. and God vvill enter into judgment with him. Ier. 2.35.

Then absolutely I see that if any man worship the beast or his ymage / etc. as before you have shewed / he neither hath faith nor feare of God in him what shewe of Godlines soever he maketh. But what say you, man not a Man that sepe­rateth from all vncleanenes / though he yet / see not the way off Christ / in his Ordinances may not such a Man bee saved.

Yes, vpon this conditiō, that he beleeve in Iesus Christ for his onely righteousnes, and be willing and ready, to heare and obey his ordi­nances, example hereof wee have in Cornelius. Act. 10. But if anie wil not heare that Prophet (Chr: Iesus) in al thinges whatsoever he shal say vnto thē shalbe destroied out of his people. Act. 3.22.23.

What do you meane by wil not heare?

That when any parte of the waies of God is manifest to them they despise, and contemne it, or carelesly neglect it, otherwise men may not receive some of Christs truth, ād yet not be said, that they wil not receive it.

Next / after forsaking the wayes of wickednes / and im­braceing Christ for our righteousnes what must wee do?

Christs whole Testament teacheth this, and no other way, after repentance, from dead workes, and faith towards God, to be baptized with water. Mat. 16.16. Act. 2.41. and 8.12.38. and 9.18. and a clowde of witnesses, calling the­se the beginnings of Christ, and foundation. Heb. 6.1. etc.

May none be admitted to the Church / to pertake in the ordinances, except they be baptized?

If any teach otherwise, he presumeth above that which is write. 1. Cor. 4.6. ād therefore ought to be held accursed. Gal. 1.8.9. For there was never true Church, since Christs manifesting in the flesh, joyned together of vnbaptized persons though some have vainely published, the con­trary.

True / I thinke that cannot be denyed / where the persōs were never baptized / but now the members of the Church off Rome from whence the baptisme of the Church of England cometh / are baptized / therefore why need they againe be bap­tized.

If they bee baptized with Christs bap­tisme, I wil acknowledg they need not againe be baptized, but that the baptisme of the Chur: [Page 60] of Rome. is Christs baptisme: that can never bee proved, for Christ requireth that onely his Dis­ciple should baptise his disciple, and into his bo­dy. none of which is in Romes baptisme: For Christs adversaries wash with water, those that are not Christs Disciples, into the body, not of Christ, but of Antichrist.

I confesse that the Church of Rome and mēbers there of are the Church and members of Antichrist / but they vse the water and words in their baptisme that Christ appointed.

What thē: is it therefore Chr: baptisme? the conjurers vsed the same words that thApostles did Act. 19.13. etc. wee adjure you by the name off Iesus. &c. yet abhominable was their action: also Psal. 50. Vnto the wicked said God, what haist thou to do with my ordināces? or to take my word in thy moueth, &c. also the Papists vse the same words of their Church, that Christ hath appointed to vsed of his, as also of their ministery, is it therefore Chri: Church and ministery? They vse also the same washing water, and words in baptizing their bells, that they use in their baptizing their Infants, is it therefore Christs baptisme? If āswere be made, bells are not to be baptised I answere no more are the seed of wicked persecuters, by our opposites owne confession. Iff this were any thinge you should see what will followe: the baptisme of Rome is Christs bap­tisme, because they use water and these words: So if any vse water and these words, as the Iewes or any other of Christs adversaries as the Papists are, there is Christs baptisme, consider this and see what truth there is in it.

Though the baptisme of the Chu: of Rome should bee [...]ought / yet the baptisme of the Church of England may bee good / in that there bee many thousands that were never bap­tised in the Church of Rome.

I answere that the first beginning off the Church of Engl: was made of the mēbers of the Chur: of Rome, as is apparant in the dayes off King H. the 8. and afterwards in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths raigne, after Q. Marys death and so contynueth vnto this day, and the long contynuance of it, maketh it not aproveable: ād the Papists thēselves did the Protestāts prove if they have or hold any other baptisme Church or ministery, then that they have from them, ād shewe it, and they wil recant. Besides the bap­tisme now practized in the Chur: of England, is no better no otherwyse then that of Rome: For the Chur: of Rome baptizeth al the Infants of the most wicked that are in hir dominions: and so the Chu: of England baptizeth al the Infāts of the most wicked that are in the kings Ma ^ties dominions, and of this timber are both these Churches buylt, and therefore wee may truely say: as is the Mother, so is the doughter. And as they are in their first buylding, so are they in the most of their lawes, Lords Law-makers, Courts, ād thousāds of their abhominations in so much as it is playne enough, the latter is the very Image of the first, vnto which, whosoever submitteth or obeyeth, or maintenieth their baptisme, or any other of their humaine trash, he shal be tormēted in fire ād brimstone for evermore, ād shal never have rest day nor night. Revel. 14. & therefore in Gods feare cast away that cursed actiō of washing, where was neither Chr: disci­ple administring, [Page 62] nor his Disciple vpon whome it was admini­stred nor Christs body or Church baptized into: and obey Christs voice, in becomeing his Disci­ple, ād to his Church, that you may be baptized by his Disciple, and be made a member of his body or Church. This onely is Christs baptisme, and of him acknowledged and ought to be off al his Disciples, and the contrary to be held accursed, and in no sort mainteyned or kept.

It is obiected / that we must cast away that which is mans ordinance / and reteine that which is Gods ordinance / namely / washinge and water and words.

I deny that any thinge in that action was Gods ordinance or appointment, what truth is there in this: to say, that because God apointeth water, and washing, and words in his baptis­me, therefore howsoever water, and washinge: and these words are vsed, that is Christs ordi­nance. I confesse water ād washinge, ād words are Gods ordinance, being vsed as he hath co­maunded, the which I acknowledg must bee held: but this vse of thē, or action forespoken off being not the vse of thē, or action appointed off God (as the adversaries confesse) is to bee cast away as execrable.

Further it is obiected they repent of that which is evil and reteyne that which is good.

For the better discovering of this deceit, let vs consider what is the evil then cōfesse, ād that they repent of, say they, an vnlawful persō, performed an vnlawful action vpō an vnlawful person, this is the evil. Now this is the questiō whether this actiō thus vnlawfully performed [Page 63] may be kept, and yet repented of. The scripture teacheth, that not onely confessing, but foresa­keing sin, is repentance. Pro. 28.13. Cā a theife that hath stolne goods, repent thereof to accep­tance with God, and not make restitutiō to the party wronged? being in his power, or haveing ability to restore, I would knowe how this wil be maintayned for the one is a greater theft thē thother.

It is further obiected / that Ieroboams followers had no right to circumcision in their ydolatrous estate / yet such as were circumcised in that estate / were not afterwards cir­cumcised when they came to repentance.

It is there foregery so to object, for either they had right to circūcisiō, being true Isralits although in transgression, or els none had right to circumcision in the world, no not Iudah: For what cā be said, but that because the ten Tribes were in rebelliō against God therefore they had no right to circumcisiō: may not the same be said in as high a mesure of Iudah? was Israels sin halfe so great as Iudahs? If it bee said that Is­rael forsooke the place of Gods worship the tē ­ple, so did Iudah to, worshipping vnder every Grene tree, and Grove, and high place: what­soever cā be said of the one, as much may be said of thother. This is a meere deceitfull forgery raised vp by Sathan, in the harts of his false prophets, to deceive thēselves, and thē that shal perish, if they repēt not, in that they receive not the love of the truth, but beleeve these lyes, and have pleasure therein, concluding frō this false ground, that because the Isralites in transgres­sion were circumcised, and after comeing to re­pentance [Page 64] were not circumcised againe: so Egip­tians, Sodomites and Babilonians, never ha­veing bene Isralites, baptized in the Synago­gues of sathan, are not to be rebaptised, as they cal it, there being no comparison betwixt the persons: thone being true Isralites acording to the flesh, Gods people, to whome by Gods appoin­tement circumcision aperteyned, ād who should have increased their transgressions if they had not performed it: and thother true Babiloniās Gods adversarys, vnto whome God threatneth his judgments, for takeing his ordinances in their mouethes or hands.

I see indeed there is no true proportion betwixt the per­sons in circumcision and baptisme / for the one were the per­sons appointed of God to be circumcised, which circumcision taught them the forsakeing of their wicked waies / and bound them to the observation of the law. Gal. 5.3. And they had no cause to repent of that their action: thither are not the per­sons appointed of God to be baptized but sinned in that their action and must repent thereof by your opposites owne con­fession. But if this be granted / this question ariseth who shal then baptize after Antichrists exaltation?

For answere to this: there are three waies professed in the world, one by the Papists, and their several successors, professing succession frō the Pope and his ministers: another by the Fa­milists and scattered flock▪ that none may inter meddle there with lawfully▪ til their extraordi­nary men come: another, wee ād others affirme that any disciple of Christ in what part off the World soever commeing to the Lords way, he by the Word and Spirit off GOD prea­ching that way vnto others, and converting [Page 65] / he may and ought also to baptize thē: the two former I shal through the helpe of God confute / and confirme the latter by the scriptures.

First to the Papists and all their severall suc­cessors (some standing for all by succession from Rome / some for more / some for lesse / some for no­thing but Baptisme / being of our judgment for the appointing of their ministery. To them all I answere with the words of the lord / Ps. 50.16. what hath Antichrists ministers to do to take Gods word in their mouths, or to declare his ordi­nances, seeing they hate to be reformed, and have cast Gods word behind their backs. If they have nothing to doe with his word and ordinan­ces / then not with ministery and baptisme. Be­sides God hath foribidden that the adversaries of him / his Temple / and them that dwel in hea­ven should build according to that of Nehemia. 2.20. The God of heaven he wil prosper us, and wee his servants wil rise vp and build, but as for you, yee have no portion nor right nor memoriall in Ierusalem. 2. to that fantasticall sect I answer. It is their dreame and false vision / to looke for extraordinary men / for God hath not spoken it. For if an Angel frō heaven should come & preach otherwise, then those extraordinary men the Appostles have preached which none els could preach / & which is written in Christs tes­tament / wee are to hold them accursed Gal. 1.8.9. which truth none need go into heaven to seeke, but every one that searcheth the scriptures may find by the direction of the holie Ghost, which God hath promissed to all that obey him. Act. 5, and aske it. Mat. 6.1.

Now I pray you let me heare your confirmation of your practice.

As it was in the second building of the ma­teriall Tēple, after the captivitie of Babylon in Caldea, so according to the true porportion, it is to be in the second building of the spirituall Tē ­ple after the captivitie of spirituall Babylon. Now this is observed in the former that every Israelite, with whome the lord was, and whose spirit, the Lord stirred vp, was commaunded to go and build Ezra. 1.3.5. though some were more ex­cellēt in the busines then others. So now every spirituall Israelite with whome the Lord is, & whose spirit the Lord stirreth vp are comaun­ded, to go and build, and the Lord wil prosper them in riseing vp and building, though some be more excellent in the busines then others, the be­gining of which spirituall building, is first to be­get men a new by the immortall seed of Gods word, so makeing them liveing stones, & there­vpon to couple them together a spirituall house vnto God 1. Pet. 2. vpon the confession of their faith / by baptisme / as the scriptures of the new testament every where teach, as before is shew­ed.

It is confessed of many / that any that hath giftes may preach and convert but not baptize.

Such our Saviour accounteth hipocrites, and reproveth Mat. 23. that held it was lawfull to sweare by the Temple but not by the gold on the Temple, by the altar, but not by the offering on the altar: to whom he saith, whether is grea­ter the gold or the Temple that sanctifies the gold? the offering, or the altar that sanctifieth the offering? So may I say, whether is greater the water and washinge, or the word that sanc­tifies [Page 67] the water?

What other example have you in the scriptures, that on vnbaptized person may baptise?

If there were no other then that afore­mentioned, it were sufficent. An Israelite cir­cumcised in flesh God stirring vp his hart was to build, the Temple made with hands, from the first stone to the last, So an Isralite circum­cised in hart, God stirring him vp, is to build the Tēple made without hands from the first stone to the last, begining with, Go preach, and Bap­tise, teaching to observe all that God cōmaunds, as Christ teacheth his disciples to the end of the world. But further wee have the particuler example of Iohn Baptist, who being vnbaptized, preached, converted, and baptized.

But Iohn Baptist was an extraordinary man it wilbe obiected / for God spake to him extraordinarily.

what then / Is not his practice written for our instruction? God hath spoken at severall times after sundry manners Heb. 1.1. etc. Yet all to one end, as for this of Iohn Baptist, the same God that spake to Iohn Baptist in the wildernes his word, the same God speaketh to vs in his scrip­tures the same word he spake to Iohn, and there fore seeing the Lord hath spoken who shall not preach and practice according to his word, see­ing now God speaketh to no particuler persons, For what soever is written afore time is written for every mans instruction. Rom. 15.4.

Many famous men as Mr. Perkins and others cōfesse, that if a Turck shoud come, to the knowledg of the truth in Turkie, he might preach the same to others, and [...]erting them baptize them / though vnbaptized.

True, but this misterie of iniquitie so pre­vaileth perswading many that they are Christi­ans, because they had baptisme in their infancie whē it apperteined not to them that they think their case is better then the Turckes, though alas it is much worse, for it shalbe easier for the Turkes then for them if Gods word be true. Are not all Iewes & Gentiles in one estate by nature, and is there more then one way of com­ming to Christ for them both namely to be the sonnes of God by faith and to put on Christ by baptisme Gal. 3.26.27. who hath set vp his new way? Christ or Antichrist?

Many of those caled Brownists doe confesse that they are reasonable perswaded that Antichristians cōming to the truth may be baptized / and they would not differ with you concerning that / but that you deny infants bap­tisme / what say you / may not the infants of the faithful be baptized?

No except God have appointed it.

You know it is granted that there is neither plaine comaund nor example for it in Christs Testament, but from the consequence of circumcision, in that covenant that God made with Abraham and his seed Gen. 17. and other places agreeing therewith.

Let vs endeavor to put an end to this if it may be in short. I demaund of you / what covenant the Lord meaneth here. It must be granted he meaneth, either the covenant of the land of Canaan withall the promisses thereof: or the covenant of Christs cōming of his loynes concerning the flesh, or els the covenant of life and salvation by Christ, one of these three it must needs be, let me have your answere / or any [Page 69] mans hereto.

The first and second cannot be pleaded, therefore it must be the third, namely life and salvation by Christ.

Wel, then I demand, hath the fleshly childr [...] of the faithfull, more previlege to life and salva­tion then the faithful themselves?

No I think it cannot be sayd.

Wel, then I affirme that the faithfull have right to this covenant of life and salvation onely upon their repentance and faith, and not otherwise, & so have their children & not other­wise, except you wil say they have greater pre­vilege thē the faithful: or els that they shal have life & salvatiō by their parents faith: or els that they have right and title to it, whether they re­pent and beleeve or no. If any say they have right and title to it by Gods promise. I answer God hath promised life and salvation by Christ to none that are vnder condemnation but onely by repentance and faith: let any shew the cōtra­ry if they be able. If any say as some foolishly have done, being vrged / that it is the covenāt of the visible church: what covenant is that but the covenant of life and salvation made to the faithfull, Christs body and Church. And there­fore seeing they are so confounded herein, some teaching one thing, some another: some that in­fants have neyther faith nor repentance, but by vertue of the covenant made to their Parents: Others teach that repentance and faith is to be performed of every one that is to be baptised, & that infants may repent and beleeve by their suerties till they come to age themselves: seeing I say they are thus confounded herein, having nothing in Christs perfect testament, onely some [Page 70] shew of a forged consequence, and also that they agree not among themselves. Let vs take heed of prophaning the Lords holy ordinance, admi­nistring it where he hath not cōmaunded. Ma­ny other things might be sayd, but this may suffice, seeing much is already written, & more may be ere long: knowing they have nothing to say but their severall conceits.

But what doe you then hold of infants?

That they are innocents as Christ teacheth. Mat. 18.3. &c. & 19.14. &c. 1. Cor. 14.20. that they have no knowledge. Deut. 1.39. Ionah 4.11. that God speaketh not to them, requiring a­ny thing at their hands, Deut. 11.2. Mat. 13, 9. Rom. 7.9. 1. Cor. 10.15. and therefore they have not sinned, seeing sin is the breach of Gods law. 1. Ioh. 3.4. Rom. 4.15.

Then you hold they shalbe saved.

Wherefore should they be condemned?

For that originall sinne, they have received from A­dam.

Well. It is not my purpose now, time wil not serve to answere all the objections that are made in this matter. In short I trust to cutt downe that conceit, that any infant should be condemned as thus. I demaund of you, did any of Adams posteritie fall deeper in that trās­gression then he himself?

No I never heard it affirmed, but as deep as he.

Well, out of your own ground you shal­be [Page 71] convinced. Did God ever purpose or declare, that Adam for that transgression should goe to hell? consider it well before you answer.

No, for from eternitie he purposed that Christ should be betwixt that syn, and condemnation.

You say true: then for that sin, God ne­ver purposed to condemne Adam to hell: if not him for that, why any of his posteritie for that? Let this be considered, it is your owne ground. Further I say, and that without contradictiō, it was never Gods purpose that any should go to hell, but for refusing Christ. This is condē ­dation that light (or Christ) is come into the world / and men love darknes better. Ioh. 3.19. and Christ will condemne the world of sin, be­cause they beleeve not in him. Ioh. 16.9.

I cannot contradict you in this, I will better cō ­sider of it, but I pray you what hold you then of Predesti­nation?

If you conceive the former, you may see what I hold, namely that before all beginings, it was Gods purpose or predestination that, sal­tiō should consist in the receiving, or beleeving in Christ, and cōdemnatiō in refusing of Christ. He that will not beleeve shalbe damned. Mar. 16. 16. and not otherwise.

Then you hold that God hath predestinated some to be saved, and some to be damned.

Yes, as I told you, namely the receivers of Christ to be saved: and the refusers of Christ to be damned, but that God hath predestinate [Page 72] or appointed some to the meanes & end, name­ly to be wicked and to be damned, is the most blasphemous conceit, that ever Sathan foysts into mans hart, or braine.

But are men left then to their owne free will?

What doe you meane by free will?

Abilitie of our selves to do good or evill.

You say well, that truely is freewill. To do evill, and to resist Gods word and spirit, wee have freewill or power of our selves, Act. 13.46. & 7.51. But to do good, or to receive Gods word or spirit, wee have no power of our selves. God worketh the will and the deed herevnto. Phil. 2.13. wee are both begotten againe of God by his aboundant mercie in Christ, to that heavē ­ly inheritāce & kept by his power (through faith) unto salvation. 1. Pet. 1.3 4.5. so that nothing apperteyneth to us but shame, to him onely ap­perteyneth the glory for our life from death & for our preservation therein.

How comes it then that some do beleeve / and some do not?

That any do beleeve I have shewed you the cause, without the which none could beleeve, namely Gods mercy in Christ, in quickning vs that were dead by his powerfull & lively word spirit: that some do not beleeve, the cause is, they having freewill to do evill / & to resist Gods & [Page 73] word and spirit / vse the same / and so do not be­leeve. That any beleeve it is thus Gods mercy / that most beleeve not / the cause is not Gods / but their owne wicked resisting will.

It is sayd / that the reason why some beleeve not / is because God doth not effectually call them / as he doth the other: for if he did / they should come.

This saying / is partly blasphemous / partly ignorant / blasphemous / in that it lyeth the cause of their not beleeving on God / in that he effectually calleth them not / & maketh God a dissembler in his word / who saith / as he liveth he would have it otherwise: ignorāt it is / in that such persōs as so say / know not Gods work in creating man: for if God had made Adā other­wise then he made him / eyther vnchangeablie good or evill / he must have made him eyther a God or a Devill: for if he could not have resisted God / by his creation / then what was he / but as God / vnchangeable: and if he could not have resisted the Devill by his creation / what was he but a Devill vnchangeable? or if he could not have resisted God in eating the forbidden fruit / how could God have manifested his mercie to him in Christ? or if he could not have resisted the Devill therein / how could God justlie poure out his iudgmēts upon him / for his obediēce to Sa­than / God creating him therevnto. Now for vs Adams posteritie / it is graunted of all / that wee have the same will or power to evill that Adam had or rather worse / though not the wil [Page 74] to good he had / and therefore men may and doe resist God in his effectuall calling of them / as Adā did in Gods effectuall forbidding him that tree. God is no respecter of persons / he calleth all effectually and in good earnest / and whosoe­ver holdeth otherwise he hath an evill conceit of God.

I praise God you have given me great satisfaction in these things / what must we do after our baptisme?

As the Saints our predecessors did. They that gladly received the word were baptized, and they continued in the Apostles doctrine, fellow­ship, breaking of bread and prayers. Act. 2. wal­king in fear towards God / and in love in word and deed / one towards another / according to the blessed rules in Christs Testament; and also justly and unblameably towards all men / that they may cause their conversatiō aswell as their doctrine to shine before men / that men may set their good works, & glorify their father, which is in heaven, without the which conversation all profession is nothing.

It is a great stumbling block to many / that divers / who professe Religion walk corruptly in their conversation / it is great cause that the wicked open their mouthes a­gainst Gods truth.

Alas, it is most lamentable, but Gods people must knowe, it hath bene and will be so vnto the end of the world. And therefore hath Christ Iesus appointed meanes for the redres­sing thereof in his Church. Mat. 18. & 1. Cor. 5. &c. And we may not justify or condemne any Religion whatsoever by mens personall walk­ings. [Page 75] May we say / the Religion of the Philo­ [...]phers was good because of their morall ver­ [...]es? or that the Religion that Iudah and Da­ [...]d professed was evill, because of Iudahs in­ [...]est, and Davids adulterie / and murther. Gen. [...].2. Sam. 11. or the Religion of Christ evill / because that one that professed it, fell into incest [...]. Cor. 5. Gods people had need to take heed assuming / whereby to cause the adversaries to [...]laspheme, for the which God may make them [...]xamples to all succeeding ages.

I give you hartie thankes for your paines with me in these things / and I trust I shall not let them slip but re­member them all my life / and put them in practise.

The glory and thanks thereof onely be­ [...]ngeth to God, for to him it is due, but this I desire you to consider / that the knowing of the [...]ll of God / without practising of it / doth vs [...]ther hurt then good / the scripture saith. Not [...]he knowers but the doers are justifyed Rō. 2.13. [...]am. 1.12. And he that knowes his maisters wil & doth not shalbe beaten with many stripes. Ma­y there be in this nation (with greefe of soule I speak it) that acknowledge and confesse the truth / but practise it not / for some respects or o­ther; the Lord perswade all your harts to the speedy practise thereof / and that by many ex­amples that are left vnto you. David that mā of God saith, I made haist, & delayed not to keep thy cōmaundements. Psal. 119.60. The Disci­ples Mat. 4. ymmediately without tarrying fol­lowed Christ. The three thowsand the same day [...]hey were enformed obeyed the Lord and were [Page 76] baptized. Act. 2. The Samaritanes Act. [...].11 assoone as they beleeved were baptized both m [...] and women. The Eunuch likewise ver 38. [...] Iaylor / Lydia, Paul, and a clowd of witness [...] comming not with flesh and blood, but obey the Lord assoone as they beleeved. Here w [...] no staying to heare what this, and that learn [...] man could say against it, as now a daies, but they were confidently perswaded thereof, th [...] obeyed. And so I am assured it shalbe by lit [...] and little as the kingdome of the Beast dimini­sheth.

I hope I shall testify to all / my spedie walking [...] the steps of these holie men / but one thing there is yet which hath much troubled me and others / and in my judgem [...] hath much hindred the growth of godlines in this kingdom and that is that many so soone as they see or feare [...] will ensue / they flie into another Nation who cannot [...] their conversation / and thereby deprive many poore ig [...] rant soules in their own Nation / of their information / [...] of their conversation amongst them.

Oh / that hath bene the overthrowe [...] Religion in this land / the best able and great [...] part being gone / and leaving behind them some fewe / who by the others departure have ha [...] their afflictions and contempt increased which hath bene the cause of many falling back / and o [...] the adversaries exalting / but they wil tell vs we are not to iudge things / by the effects / there­fore we must prove that their flight vnlawfull or we say nothing.

And first / whereas it is said by some of these fliers / that many of the people of God fled into forraine countries / and that God gave approba­tion thereof / as Moses / David / our Saviour [Page 77] Christ in his infancie / & others / thinking here­ [...]y to justify this their flight. I answere / God [...]eserved Moses and the rest in their flight / till [...]etime was come that he imployed them in his [...]rvice / then in no case he would suffer them to [...]e / as when Moses manifested his exceeding ackwardnes to the Lords work in helping his [...]eople out of bondage vsing many excuses / the Lord was very angry with him Exod. 4.10.—15. [...]nd whither did our Saviour flie / when the [...]ime came that he was to shewe himselfe to Isra­ell? Luk. 1.80. If any of these men can prove the Lord requireth no work at their hands to be [...]e for his glorie and the salvation of thousāds of ignorant soules in their owne Nation / let thē [...]tay in forraine countries. But I trust Gods people have learned / not to say the time is not yet come that Babell should be destroyed / and the Lords house builded / but that the time is come to build the Lords house / and not to dwell in seiled houses / Hag 1. or any way to seek our outward promotion; which if it be granted / that the time is come / not onely to come out of Ba­bel but to destroy her / all these objections are no­thing / except they prove that when God called any of his people to his work / they left it for feare of trouble. This doctrine was not ap­proved of God when the time came that his ad­versaries were to be rooted out / and that his people had gotten some victory. The Rubenites, and the Gadites could have been content to have remayned to their most peace & cōmoditie. Nū. 32. But Moses sayd vnto them, Shall your bre­thren goe to warre and ye tarie here? wherefore [Page 78] now discourage ye the harts of the children of Is­rael &c. sharplie reproving them as an increase of sinful men risen up in their fathers steads still to augment the feirce wrath of the Lord / and Mo­ses would not be satisfied vntill they had promi­mised that they would goe with their brethren to the Lords worke / and would not returne to their houses / till they had accōplished the same. And the Angel of the Lord doth say. Curse ye Meroz, curse the inhabitants thereof, because they came not to help the lord, to help the Lord against the Mightie. Iudg. 5.23. Also because the men of Iabesh Gilead / came not up to the Lord / to help their brethren against the wicked men of Gibeah, all the men were destroyed and all the women that had lien by men Iudg 21. No excuse whatsoever could serve: Did God thus respect his worke and people then / as all must put to their helping hand / and none must withdrawe their shoulder least others were discouraged / & is there no regard to be had thereof now? but any occasion / as feare of a little imprisonment / or the like may excuse any / both from the Lords work / & the help of their brethren that for want of their society and comfort / are exceedingly weakened / if no overcome. If answer be made / they performe their duty in both / that they doe the Lords worke the Pastor feeding hys flock / and the people walking one towards another. I demaund / doth the Lord require no more worke of them? doth he not requyre that they should help to cast downe Babell? If reply be made they doe it by their bookes. I answere / that may be done / and their lights shine by their [Page 79] mouthes and conversations also among the wicked / which is the greatest meanes of converting them and destroying Antichristes kingdome / They overcame (not by flieing a­way) by the blood of the Lambe, and by the word of their testimonie and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev. 13.11. Gods people are the lights of the world / a Citie set on a hil / a Candle set on the candlestick / giving light to all that come in. Mat. 5. and therefore must shine by their persons / more then by their [...]ookes. And great help and encouragement would be to Gods people in affliction of im­prisonment and the like / to have their brethrēs presence / to administer to their soules or bo­dies / and for which cause / Christ will say / I was in prison / and ye visited me / in distresse and ye comforted me / and vnto those that doe not so / according to their abilitie / Goe ye cur­sed. Mat. 25. If men had greater love to Gods cōmaunds / or the salvation of thousand of ig­norant soules in our Nation / that for want of instruction perish / then to a little temporal af­fliction they would neither publish nor practise as they do in this thing. Thus have I in short shewed you my poore abilitie in these things. And for all other things we hold / as the law­fulnes of magistracie Gods blessed ordināce. Of Christ our Saviour taking his flesh of the virgine Mary / vy the wonderfull work of the holy Ghost &c. You may see them in our con­fession in print published 4. yeres ago.

Many that he called Annabaptists hold the contra­rie / and many other strange things.

Wee cannot but lament for it / so did ma­ny in Christ Churches in the primitive times hold strange opinions / as some of the Corinth [...] denyed the resurrection / and in many of the [...] churches were greevous things / which the L. by his servants warned them of / vpon payn of his displeasure / & removing of his presence from them / neverthelesse others professing the same generall cause of Christ / were cōmended.

Well / you will yet be called Annabaptists because you deny baptisme to infants.

So were Christiās before vs called Sects. And so they may Iohn Baptist. Iesus Christ / himself / and his Apostles Annabaptists / for we professe and practise no otherwise herein / [...] they / namely / the baptising of such as confesse with the mouth the beleefe of the hart. And if they be Anabaptists that deny baptisme / where God hath appointed it / they / and not we are Annabaptists. But the Lord give them repen­tance / that their sinnes may be put away / and never layd to their charge / even for his Christes sake / Amen.

Thus have wee in this Dialogue according to our poore ability answered such objections / as hetherto in our poore and unworthy testimo­ny have bene objected against any of vs concer­ning persecution for religion: as also with good consciences pointed at the principal things of Mr Robinsons late book till further time.